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The loot linearity is killing my interest in this game


KiaDragon
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1 hour ago, guardianangelmp said:

Eh, if they hadn't allowed mods not as many people would be playing now.

That's why it's genius. Thanks!

1 hour ago, guardianangelmp said:

They have been so schizo with the content and the changes with each alpha that, while they may have a plan, that plan is about as solid and steady as gelatin.

If you say so. They like to experiment a lot it's true. If you can't see the rhyme or reason then I can see how that would appear schizo.

1 hour ago, guardianangelmp said:

My analogy would be that 7 days is like Skyrim when it comes to their relationship with mods....base game is good, but has many flaws and relies on modders to make the game great.

On behalf of the team, You're Welcome.

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40 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Yep you're right. The people that think like you do agree with you. The rest of us do not.

Thats true but at the same time theres not much people who actually seem to be on your side. 

 

 

Look at the post i linked, it has a voting on it where the stone loot shouldnt be in boxes side leads.

 

You can go and give it a try yourself, start a votepage and see what gets more supported.

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7 hours ago, guardianangelmp said:

 

Eh, if they hadn't allowed mods not as many people would be playing now.  They have been so schizo with the content and the changes with each alpha that, while they may have a plan, that plan is about as solid and steady as gelatin.

 

My analogy would be that 7 days is like Skyrim when it comes to their relationship with mods....base game is good, but has many flaws and relies on modders to make the game great.

I don't know a single total conv mod I would prefer to vanilla, even though I play them once in a while for disversification. Invariably I can't play the same mod back to back, which indicates to me that it is only the variety of play that draws me to play mods inbetween vanilla, not their greatness.

The only total conv that really reached a level near vanilla (for me) was valmod in A16. But this may be nostalgia as this was also the first total conv mod I played.

 

My analogy would be that everyone has a different favourite dish and a game developer can only cook one recipe, every player with a different taste has to add chilli, salt or pepper or even get the alternative cook to modify the dish.

 

Your contention that only modders make the game great ignores that your tastes are not some universal thing, just like mine are not.

 

3 hours ago, Solomon said:

Thats true but at the same time theres not much people who actually seem to be on your side. 

 

 

Look at the post i linked, it has a voting on it where the stone loot shouldnt be in boxes side leads.

 

You can go and give it a try yourself, start a votepage and see what gets more supported.

I would not consider roughly 30% as "not much", especially when I don't even had a chance to manipulate that vote 🤣

 

 

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On 8/22/2020 at 9:20 AM, seagas said:

So who is looting high level boxes so early on? I don't open large safes or valuable crates until I get above GS 40. There is still valuable loot, trader quests and items to buy from traders. I found a level 1 toilet pistol, bought 3 level M16 and a motorcycle all by day 8.  Still using box, blunderbuss and sawed off shotgun for looting and hoard mights, enjoying the challenge this brings to the game.

I do. I open every crate and safe I come across. There are more POI's in the game than I could ever visit, many of them reset when you do a quest, and the safes hold great stuff like ammo & mods that are useful early on.

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I'll admit, I've been completely avoiding the POIs with a lot of loot boxes with the intention of hitting them up later., with the exception of the trader mission POIs.
Sometimes there is something specific I am looking for that I know a POI will have a lot of, but in those cases, I just grab what I need at the time and leave.
I'm not really liking this arrangement either... but at the same time, it's not killing my game.
I can see the need for linear loot to extend gameplay. I wish at least for now, things like the lucky looter books and perks added randomness, essentially breaking that linearity more and more with the more of these you have. All they really do is increase the amount of the junk you don't need.
 

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I do like that the progression has been slowed and hopefully this makes all the resources and crafting more valuable. Previously there was rarely reason to craft anything as you could just find better anyways.  But right now, same as most, I do not look forward to looting early on as I do not need another level 2 stone tool or blunderbuss.  The sealed crates should at least give some parts to craft items.  I would be OK with looting to get some pistol or AK parts and have to level my skills and craft my own but at least give me that chance to get a real gun before day 7.

 

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40 minutes ago, Onionbear said:

I do like that the progression has been slowed and hopefully this makes all the resources and crafting more valuable. Previously there was rarely reason to craft anything as you could just find better anyways.  But right now, same as most, I do not look forward to looting early on as I do not need another level 2 stone tool or blunderbuss.  The sealed crates should at least give some parts to craft items.  I would be OK with looting to get some pistol or AK parts and have to level my skills and craft my own but at least give me that chance to get a real gun before day 7.

 

I have yet to have a single game NOT give some kind of gun before day 7, typically a blunderbuss as early as day 1 and then at least a pistol before day 7. Once an AK (grey, but still an AK) and once a hunting rifle.

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Oh!  Found about six other dimes here on the floor.

*adds them to the jar of dimes found for looter complaints.*

 

On 8/22/2020 at 12:24 AM, KiaDragon said:

I have logged 2,930 hours on this game.  I purchased it several alphas ago and it has been my ABSOLUTE FAVORITE for years.

But this new linear loot system is killing me with bland boredom.  I know precisely what I am getting from loot crates early game.  Nothing of worth.

I loot an entire Shotgun Messiah factory to get nothing but a high level blunderbuss.  After blunderbuss.  After blunderbuss.  After blunderbuss.

There is no point to breaking open safes.  I am able to craft better weapons that I can every find in a gun safe or loot crate for weeks in gameplay.

Zero randomness to loot.  No exciting surprises.  Bland, boring, GRINDY.  It does not matter if I take the Lucky Looter perk.  Bland repeats of the same low level gear.  There is no joy for taking the risk of raiding facilities.

It this rate, I have no desire to GRIND, GRIND, GRIND for days on end before I can get a piece of decent hardware of ANY type.

I am beyond disappointed.  Doubt I'll bother getting to 3,000 hours.  It's just a grindy snoozefest now, no matter how pretty you made the graphics.

There's nothing you need in those crates that you can't find in other places.  Have you considered altering your style of gameplay to INCLUDE that knowledge?

I think people miss the point about certain things.  Like TFP makes a game a certain way.  They only solicit feels.  The onus of how you deal with those feels is

upon you.  If early loot crates and grind are a problem, there are ways to mitigate that on your end with tools that have been provided by the Devs for your use to alter the world as you see fit.

Edited by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, Solomon said:

Look at the post i linked, it has a voting on it where the stone loot shouldnt be in boxes side leads.

Not thinking stone weapons should be in sealed containers is NOT the same thing as thinking it is
ruining the game for me". I don't loot shotgun messiah early now. I didn't loot shotgun messiah early before either. Nothing changed in that regard for me. The game is not ruined for me. I enjoy the game more with NOT finding guns in every other poi I loot early game. The early days when I am weal and struggling are the most fun part of the game for me until much later when I get into a long term massive build project.

 

 

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Just chiming in with my two cents.  I am at game stage 240 plus and have purple everything.  While I agree that early game it is a bit stale (looting blunderbuss and stone pickaxes ad-nauseam), overall, I think the loot system is pretty good. 

 

  • I have not had to grind for this.  I just naturally played the game.  
  • For the first time, it feels like an actual loot progression.  My recollection is  I didnt start getting high end purple gear until around 180 game stage.
  • Very early on (first couple of days) I found a pistol and started using it almost exclusively very quickly.
    • There is ammo everywhere in this alpha.
  • Usually I find something uber early on (like an auger or AK47) and this time I did not.  This is good.
  • I found plenty of things on the traders early
  • I agree that Lucky Looter doesnt feel like it has as much impact as it did earlier.  I still got it though.  I also wear the looting goggles. 
  • Tier 5 quest rewards seem awful though.  The only time I bother questing is when I want to reset a POI.
  • For me, the POIs continue to be the shining gem of this game.  I really enjoy them and exploring the new ones every alpha.  More sky scrapers please!
  • Overall, its better than its ever been with some minor annoyances.
Edited by Selway (see edit history)
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19 hours ago, meganoth said:

I don't know a single total conv mod I would prefer to vanilla, even though I play them once in a while for disversification. Invariably I can't play the same mod back to back, which indicates to me that it is only the variety of play that draws me to play mods inbetween vanilla, not their greatness.

The only total conv that really reached a level near vanilla (for me) was valmod in A16. But this may be nostalgia as this was also the first total conv mod I played.

 

My analogy would be that everyone has a different favourite dish and a game developer can only cook one recipe, every player with a different taste has to add chilli, salt or pepper or even get the alternative cook to modify the dish.

 

Your contention that only modders make the game great ignores that your tastes are not some universal thing, just like mine are not.

 

I would not consider roughly 30% as "not much", especially when I don't even had a chance to manipulate that vote 🤣

 

 

Not even i could manipulate that vote, i clicked no and that was it.

13 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

Not thinking stone weapons should be in sealed containers is NOT the same thing as thinking it is
ruining the game for me". I don't loot shotgun messiah early now. I didn't loot shotgun messiah early before either. Nothing changed in that regard for me. The game is not ruined for me. I enjoy the game more with NOT finding guns in every other poi I loot early game. The early days when I am weal and struggling are the most fun part of the game for me until much later when I get into a long term massive build project.

But in that case you never even seen the problem. The main reason people dislike the sealed crate stone age tools is because most of them cant apply suspension of disbelief to it because it just doesnt make sense.

 

Most of the time, we start mass scavanging what means we are pretty much at the end of stone age in terms of content on day 4-5 and by the time we reach day 7 we are already in some gigantic construction project to make our base unpenetrable. We are on day 6 and we are already searching for the trader with the concrete mixer and the blueprint for it so we can start the next tier of upgrades.

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14 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

Not thinking stone weapons should be in sealed containers is NOT the same thing as thinking it is
ruining the game for me". I don't loot shotgun messiah early now. I didn't loot shotgun messiah early before either. Nothing changed in that regard for me. The game is not ruined for me. I enjoy the game more with NOT finding guns in every other poi I loot early game. The early days when I am weal and struggling are the most fun part of the game for me until much later when I get into a long term massive build project.

Honestly i wouldnt have problem with the current system if its logically distributed.

 

First of all stone loot as such shouldnt be in loot at all or it should be in survivor chaches where it makes sense to find them.

Second the pre-apocalypse crates should be reduced in number greatly so they are rare finds along with all the dungeon end reward setups.

Third prioritize the loot into specific containers and set the droprates for them to that. Shotgun messiah crates go from bullets-> gun parts+bullets->guns+gunparts+bullets so it makes sense.

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On 8/23/2020 at 11:16 PM, Roland said:

TFP is making an omelette.

The first step is to break some eggs and keep the white and yolk in a bowl and throw the shells away.

After breaking the eggs and throwing away the shells someone says, "Those are perfectly good shells and their purpose is to protect the white and yolk. It's horrible the way it is now. How do you expect us to eat raw eggs? Is this what you call an omelette? A bowl with raw eggs inside and the shells which served so well in the past now in the garbage?"

 

Wait for the omelette Scyris. TFP is going to make the omelette. They are not going to fish out the shells from the garbage and try to put the eggs back together again. If you don't like being in the kitchen while the omelette is being prepared, then wait until it is served and then come running to grab a plate.

 

You still might not like the omelette they prepared and you can say so and push to remove it along with others who don't like it. But they have a plan that they are going to see through to the end. You can tell them to abandon their plan all you want but it will be wasted breath. They are committed to this course. 

The problem with this metaphor is that we got served a plate of raw eggs and people are not happy about that.

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1 hour ago, Dracula said:

It would be more accurate to say "SOME people are OK with that"

I deleted my post as it was really nitpicking. But ok, when nitpicking there is only all or nothing:

 

So if I look at Rolands recent poll though 45% say they "like" it. 43% don't like or hate it. And there are 6% indifferent (aka "all was ok") group, gaining a a small absolute majority for the "ok or better" group . And 6% "other" who could be anywhere.

 

As Roland said such a poll is just for curiosity's sake, but it definitely speaks against any theory that players could be uniformly disliking the change

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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12 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I deleted my post as it was really nitpicking. But ok, when nitpicking there is only all or nothing:

 

So if I look at Rolands recent poll though 45% say they "like" it. 43% don't like or hate it. And there are 6% indifferent (aka "all was ok") group, gaining a a small absolute majority for the "ok or better" group . And 6% "other" who could be anywhere.

 

As Roland said such a poll is just for curiosity's sake, but it definitely speaks against any theory that players could be uniformly disliking the change

 

That's also limited to the forum; if you opened it up to Facebook; for example, the #1 result would be "Where's our console update?"

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3 hours ago, Dracula said:

The problem with this metaphor is that we got served a plate of raw eggs and people are not happy about that.

You got served a sample in the kitchen. Not the full meal in the dining room. The meal is still being cooked..... you paid to get to taste it along the way.

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5 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

You got served a sample in the kitchen. Not the full meal in the dining room. The meal is still being cooked..... you paid to get to taste it along the way.

Your point is moot since they had a purported release date of May, 2014 and that date is still visible on the Kickstarter page.  Seeing as the "meal" was supposed to be ready over 6 years ago, I have every right to complain about a plate of raw eggs.

 

2014 was when THEY said it was supposed to be ready; after all, NOT me.

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1 hour ago, meganoth said:

So if I look at Rolands recent poll though 45% say they "like" it. 43% don't like or hate it.

---

definitely speaks against any theory that players could be uniformly disliking the change

Roland's recent (masterfull) poll has nothing to do with the current state/change, with every one of its options asking for an opinion for something that hasn't happened yet, and is promised to happen within the following years. So no, using it as a measure of approval of the game's current state is at the very least misleading.

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51 minutes ago, RestInPieces said:

Roland's recent (masterfull) poll has nothing to do with the current state/change, with every one of its options asking for an opinion for something that hasn't happened yet, and is promised to happen within the following years. So no, using it as a measure of approval of the game's current state is at the very least misleading.

 

The question of Rolands poll is "How do you feel about the CURRENT loot progression?". And the answers start with "I like it, ..." or "I don't like it", followed by versions of "I like/don't like where it is going". So at most one could say that the answer is only half about the present, and the question is 100% about the present.

 

Since all combinations of current/future testimony are present as answer you can just filter out the part of the answer that says something about the future and you even arrive at testimonies that are 100% about the present

 

 

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2 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

The question of Rolands poll is "How do you feel about the CURRENT loot progression?". And the answers start with "I like it, ..." or "I don't like it", followed by versions of "I like/don't like where it is going". So at most one could say that the answer is only half about the present, and the question is 100% about the present.

 

Since all combinations of current/future testimony are present as answer you can just filter out the part of the answer that says something about the future and you even arrive at testimonies that are 100% about the present

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1 hour ago, RestInPieces said:

Roland's recent (masterfull) poll has nothing to do with the current state/change, with every one of its options asking for an opinion for something that hasn't happened yet, and is promised to happen within the following years. So no, using it as a measure of approval of the game's current state is at the very least misleading.

What good is a poll about the current state of looting if the current state of looting is only a step toward the final state of looting?

 

Just guessing, but I would expect TFP are also not happy with the current state of looting.... if they were, it would be the final product.

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If it isn't clear, with filter i meant adding all answers together that say the same about the current state irrespective of what they say about the future. If all possible future answers are included in this sum, only the testimony about the current state is left as testimony.

 

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