What can be done for game balance?

[KennyBMallNinja]

30 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Something like this exists. Urban Combat Vol 5 "Landmine won't detonate when stepped on".

 

 

 

I was thinking disarm so they could be moved to another location but that does work well also since the dog kennel had a ton around them.

[Solomon]

@FileMachete Yes that was my point, more variety never hurts. Just like how we need more and more Poi's so the gameplay doesnt feel stale i think the same way as towards items.

 

While i get what @meganoth says and how these guys are too specialised to do another job, i still think that it would only benefit the game to expand items the players can fiddle with because every second i spend in the game looking for specific blade weapon/potted plant means that im here enjoying myself.

 

I would argue that we dont necessearly need to create new designs to make new weapons (most people cant tell the difference between AK47, AK74 and AK-15), so even a primitive modlet approach could go far as long as players concentrate on their preferred stats instead of the item looks and if thats too much it can go into the mod system so instead of finding an actual weapon you get yourself the repeater mod.

 

As for items sadly they do need graphics so a designer for them is necesseary.

 

@meganoth Sorry i thought i mentioned originally what i make the comparsions with.

[RipClaw]

55 minutes ago, KennyBMallNinja said:

I was thinking disarm so they could be moved to another location but that does work well also since the dog kennel had a ton around them.

This is also possible with the Perk "Infiltrator" at level 3.

[FileMachete]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

It really sounds too powerful if it one-hits Demos, even if the reload takes 5 seconds or more. Lots of people playing the game can make headshots with a high rate of success. If you want such a wet-dream weapon, use a mod.

Like I said, bit of an extreme example. :)

Balance/OP wise, consider damage over time. Say top tier/qual fully modded current Sniper takes 6 good head shots on demo to take one down. I haven't seen one yet so no idea what it's mag capacity is, but factor in reload time across x demos. For example sake add in one miss per demo as well. Now theres an 'effectiveness over time' metric to measure the .50 with. Can be set so that if the .50 user has same miss ratio as the 1 in 7 example, there's basically no advantage, but if they can do better than that, then using the .50 starts to pay small dividends beyond just the 'cool' factor.

And the normal sniper would still be better against mid-tough zeds like ferals, due to it's higher rate of fire and it's lower energy round(mats cost). The .50 would be 'over hitting' by quite a bit, so yes, one-shotting, but the sniper is 2 or 3 shotting and knocking more down in the same time period.

So in this case it's more vanity than anything else, but it is significantly different playstyle wise, at least to some. Also an immersion factor. Again likely a small minority but it goes to the 'bullet sponge' perception, something that personally bugs me quite a bit.

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

I played a mod in A18 that had such a dirtbike (maybe you got the idea from there). It was absolutely OP and the only vehicle I used because it was so fast (and I had a PC and server that could handle it, my previous server was too weak and produced heavy tearing). But for technical reasons that speed can only happen in a mod. TFP has to look at what minimal PC speccs they want to support.

I said "fastest off road", not 30 meters/second lol. Haven't seen that mod, I was thinking of a multiplayer vid Kage did where they had a speed mod and the motorcycles were stupid fast and getting all kinds of air. Was pretty funny as they were so fast they were on the verge of uncontrollable.

Right now all vehicles struggle going over some of the non-road terrain, and they're all really slowed down by even fairly minor slopes. If the dirtbike just performed better in those conditions it would distinguish itself. The air bit would be for fun.

In the other post ref vehicles I was factoring in the upcoming vehicle crit system. As another advantage a dirtbike could have would be none/very-low damage when off roading, compared to the street hog.

Totally agree that TFPs have to throttle speeds for min spec.

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

The 4x4 is in the same niche as your Deuce. And at least our group mostly ignores it and prefers the motorbike or the gyro. If they add a Deuce they could as well remove the 4x4, or simply add more inv slots to the 4x4.

Have to disagree here. Could simply be rw time behind the wheel of both, but these are very different vehicles. Just loading up two peoples gear for a week of off road camping pretty much fills a jeep. Taking a duece and a half out for a camping trip (the Army calls it 'field exercises' so congress will fund it, heh), you could throw in a couple quads, the kids, the dogs, heck a propane fridge and tow the jeep as well.

As I said in the other post, the vehicles the pimps chose are good fits. No argument.

Of the two, dirtbike duece, I'd rather see the duece. Late game relocating is a huge pain in the backside. And while before relocating was really just because you 'wanted' to, with the upcoming biome difficulty changes I'd view adding in a large truck with huge storage as a way to incentivise trying out the tougher biomes.

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

But like your sniper idea above, you look at an area that TFP has said is not finished. I thought you were aware of the plan to add vehicle mods and vehicle damage to the game? So you are knocking on already open doors, maybe mods will fullfill your wishes, maybe they'll eventually add another vehicle while working on it (but I doubt it).

Yep, looking forward to these. Also agree it's not likely that they'll add any new vehicles. Posted about Dirtbike/Car/Deuce to make a case for them. While the door is still open, if only a small crack. Unlike the 'weapons' room where that door is closed and locked, heh.

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

Well, but here's the thing: TFP has a few (maybe 2 or 3) designers specializing in world building. <snip>

Totally agree and understand with what you wrote about poi desingers vs. skills/peeps needed to add new weapons.

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

But try to make a case for a totally new weapon line with 4 tiers to add to the game and it isn't that easy. Since you want a dirtbike and a Deuce, are you okay to not get them because the resources are expended for a sword that Solomon wants?

Wasn't thinking of adding a new weapons line.. maybe I'm not considering the 'classes' and stated design goal related to them of having T0-4, one each melee and ranged, as set in stone, but that's a rabbit hole we should avoid. 🙂

Yep. Variety. New shinys. I'm not too picky at this point lol.

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

What would you do if you had to decide just now what programmer John Doe and designer James Smith work on for the next 3 months: A) finishing the already started legendary weapons feature, B) adding vehicle mods and damage or C) adding a new sword line of weapons and a grenade launcher.

 

A,B or C? What will it be for you?

On the face it seems clear that it'd be A. But. and gonna apologise in advance because I'm making unflatering assumptions here, I would hesitate in choosing A. Reason being is that whatever the firearm/weapon knowledge may be behind the doors, what winds up in-game has been at times a bit questionable. Talking adding the TAR but no 5.56, that's blasphemous! (I would jump for joy if they removed the HP ammo and added in 5.56 instead)

Kidding (a bit) aside.. and having no idea what the vehicle mods might be (hard to imagine a 3x storage pocket mod for the motor/4x4 heh) I'd have to go with C. Big part of that is just having a more concrete idea of what that would be. But I'm the type of guy who would take the $100k even if there were a tiny chance to win the $1 million. Risk adverse so to speak.

Not saying I don't get your point. Even if you're being a bit stingy with the details 😉 maybe Legendarys are 90% done and switching to Sword/Launcher is a suckers bet. TFPs have their roadmap and they're sticking to it. And I'm okay with that.

But give me one MOAB and I'd drop it on the Classes.

("ain't I a stinker?" Bugs Bunny  )