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Awful zombie spawn positions


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On 8/12/2020 at 2:44 PM, Solomon said:

Im running the game at max graphics solo, no fps drops or other problems apply.

 

Thats the exact place, i solo entered the room and i seen the zombies literally appear out of thin air on the pipes. The interesting thing with the place is that i can actually float into it with the dm command, nothing is inside (?), drop down and open the door what causes them to actually appear. Same deal on my brothers computer A18 btw.

All they need to do is to add another tiny volume in front of the door and group it to the larger volume. This way they start spawning in the volume as you approach the door, instead of when you cross the threshold.

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9 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Solomon So you rather complain than actually trying to stop that issue? Well. Says a lot.

 

The old system wasn´t better. There was mid air spawns right in your face for everyone. i remember times where you will killed one and in the same moment it respawned on the same place.

Okay smarty pants, tell me how to fix the issue?

 

Blanket statements like "ItS yOuR HArdWaRE, dUdE." are not helping in any way shape or form, especially considering that in my example i have two different computers running different hardware and on a different OS having the same strange problem.

 

Like what the effing hell you want from me? Should i start to progressively reinstall all our drivers because one game cannot handle it? Look at @leaderdog's video what shows exactly what i see, im hella sure that guy in the video has another setup totally different from what i have here at home so that means we are now looking at 3 different computers with different parts to find out just which hardware is funky......................OR be realistic and ask the devs to fix a bug in their system instead of blaming it on players.

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19 minutes ago, Solomon said:

Okay smarty pants, tell me how to fix the issue?

 

Blanket statements like "ItS yOuR HArdWaRE, dUdE." are not helping in any way shape or form, especially considering that in my example i have two different computers running different hardware and on a different OS having the same strange problem.

 

Like what the effing hell you want from me? Should i start to progressively reinstall all our drivers because one game cannot handle it? Look at @leaderdog's video what shows exactly what i see, im hella sure that guy in the video has another setup totally different from what i have here at home so that means we are now looking at 3 different computers with different parts to find out just which hardware is funky......................OR be realistic and ask the devs to fix a bug in their system instead of blaming it on players.

Well it would help a lot if 90% of the people complaining would give us more information than "I know it's not my PC". Hardware specs, ensuring the client is properly excluded, and whether or not the system is optimized make a huge difference in this CPU heavy title. I've proven that more than a few times over the past 6 years, but people like yourself and the complainers just glaze over it because it for sure couldn't be something on their end.

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1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

Well it would help a lot if 90% of the people complaining would give us more information than "I know it's not my PC". Hardware specs, ensuring the client is properly excluded, and whether or not the system is optimized make a huge difference in this CPU heavy title. I've proven that more than a few times over the past 6 years, but people like yourself and the complainers just glaze over it because it for sure couldn't be something on their end.

Theres a reason why people usually graze over such things, its because when you have a problem with only 1 program on your computer everything else works fine you dont assume that something is funky on your end especially if you can run other high cpu usage games without problems plus lots of bad customer services adopted this lazy "check your computer" type of messages what ignore anything you write and provide you with basically a "fix it yourself" answer.

 

 

I mean lets go over with Hardware specs, 16gb ram, GeForce GTX 750 Ti latest version of the driver, 3.4ghz quad core, win 7 according to the recommended tabs this game should run without problems. The Cpu usage never really goes that high as for the optimization of this computer i have no idea what i have applied to it anymore.

On my brothers computer we have 12gb ram, Geforce 610 (or something below GTX 750) latest version of the driver, 3.2g quad core, Win 10, also on a sidenote for an experiment we installed this game on my fathers old laptop Win 7, 8gb ram 3ghz dual core, built-in noname 1gb videocard and while the game lags as no tomorrow this specific spawn area actually works.

14 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Like this @Solomon Or do you need me to lead you trough it, step by step?

If you would have actually payed attention instead of this passive-agressive know-it-all attitude you might have noticed that i did say that im gonna try to get some logs for the issue incase it happens again there or somewhere else.

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Also trying again and back to the topic away from this bug/feature/whatever this is. I dont really like the idea of all these jumpscare zombie placements.

 

It manages to both be weird, doesnt actually make the game more scary and makes people baffled about how the hell this 200kg fatso managed to stand on the flimsy ceiling without the whole thing crashing down.

Edited by Solomon (see edit history)
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8 minutes ago, Solomon said:

Theres a reason why people usually graze over such things, its because when you have a problem with only 1 program on your computer everything else works fine you dont assume that something is funky on your end especially if you can run other high cpu usage games without problems plus lots of bad customer services adopted this lazy "check your computer" type of messages what ignore anything you write and provide you with basically a "fix it yourself" answer.

 

 

I mean lets go over with Hardware specs, 16gb ram, GeForce GTX 750 Ti latest version of the driver, 3.4ghz quad core, win 7 according to the recommended tabs this game should run without problems. The Cpu usage never really goes that high as for the optimization of this computer i have no idea what i have applied to it anymore.

On my brothers computer we have 12gb ram, Geforce 610 (or something below GTX 750) latest version of the driver, 3.2g quad core, Win 10, also on a sidenote for an experiment we installed this game on my fathers old laptop Win 7, 8gb ram 3ghz dual core, built-in noname 1gb videocard and while the game lags as no tomorrow this specific spawn area actually works.

Ok, so you've listed off bare minimum stats for the CPU's, and haven't listed a single GPU that meets recommended specs.

  

23 minutes ago, Solomon said:

you dont assume that something is funky on your end especially if you can run other high cpu usage games without problems

Go ahead an name one other game that's as demanding as this one. I challenge you to find one. Especially one that supposedly runs without issues on your systems.

 

That's fine though. Here's one of my recent test builds.

Motherboard: Intel DG33BU
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz (4c/4t)
RAM: 8GB Dual-Channel DDR2 @ 800MHz
GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Twin Frozr Gaming OC
Storage: 1TB WD Black
Speccy

 

Now in this machine, the difference between a bloated system and an optimized system was 45FPS for bloated, and 60FPS optimized in a18. In a19's borked b169 update, it was 36/55. I can test it again this afternoon and I'm sure we'll see that 55 go up quite a bit due to recent optimizations.

 

Do I have zeds spawning in front of my in POI's? Sometimes. When I'm monitoring system usage I see that there is definitive peak in CPU and RAM allocation when this occurs. Given that the PC is at min spec, and I'm pushing the limits of the video settings for the hardware, I understand why it's happening. If I lowered the resolution from 1080p to 720p, and adjust the graphics a bit it's no longer an issue. Why? Because the CPU has to work less, and there is lower RAM allocation.

 

So some questions for you here.

1. Do you have any PC's that actually meet recommended specs?

2. Have you fully excluded the client from security software?

3. Have you cleaned up these computers and shut down all unnecessary background tasks? (I mean since they don't meet recommended specs, it's basically a given that you have to.)

4. Have you actually looked at the minimum recommended system requirements?  (Not minimum required. That just means you can start the game and play it with probably 30FPS.)

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I can assure everyone saying that this is hardware specific, it is not. You can open the console and find messages about sleepers spawning, this is unrelated to how powerful your PC is. POI's have different sleeper volumes that once you enter they will simply spawn. Having too small boxes or boxes placed infront of doors is exactly what the problem is, you can not expect every player to pick the same route.

 

Also my PC is considered high-end by current means, so I would highly doubt that my hardware is the problem.

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1 hour ago, ZehMatt said:

I can assure everyone saying that this is hardware specific, it is not. You can open the console and find messages about sleepers spawning, this is unrelated to how powerful your PC is. POI's have different sleeper volumes that once you enter they will simply spawn. Having too small boxes or boxes placed infront of doors is exactly what the problem is, you can not expect every player to pick the same route.

 

Also my PC is considered high-end by current means, so I would highly doubt that my hardware is the problem.

 

Even after Sylen and pApAeGBa demanded hard facts multiple times, all you can muster is a hazy "high-end". Thanks for proving how hard it is to get even the most basic information from people. 🙄

 

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I think that a bit more open floor design for PoIs would be nice. And instead of loot room, the stuff would be hidden throughout the house. This way instead of handcrafting a PoI with linear path, they could add more randomly generated aspects to it. First time you run the PoI its fun, but once you get used to it, there is nothing that will suprise you anymore.

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4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Even after Sylen and pApAeGBa demanded hard facts multiple times, all you can muster is a hazy "high-end". Thanks for proving how hard it is to get even the most basic information from people. 🙄

 

It's clearly a bug or a game mechanic to save on resources that needs some tweaking.  You can see how they're not there at all until he steps on to the same floor level as they are.  I've had similar experiences.  I don't have logs for it, but the only weak thing in my pc is my gtx 1070.  And that's more than adequate to deal with this game.

 

My Specs:

ryzen 3700x

32GB DDR 3200mhz

gtx 1070 8Gb ram

samsung nvme 960evo

 

admittedly Kickz hasn't started a new world playing on b169 (at time of that recording).  But considering many others are experiencing it, it's not likely their systems.

 

47 minutes ago, Onarr said:

I think that a bit more open floor design for PoIs would be nice. And instead of loot room, the stuff would be hidden throughout the house. This way instead of handcrafting a PoI with linear path, they could add more randomly generated aspects to it. First time you run the PoI its fun, but once you get used to it, there is nothing that will suprise you anymore.

 

I like that there are the dungeon poi's but I agree with you. 

 

I found it far more intense when there were zombies all over the world and while you were inside zombies would wander over and start banging on the walls, and doors, making you panic or speed up your search inside.  Add more urgency and fear to the game than all the jumping out of closets, it becomes to predictable.

 

That's why I kept arguing for random bodies laying around that look like the existing zombies so you don't know if they're sleepers or not.  Some people might let down there guard for that and then get bitten for not ensuring they're dead.  They did add random bodies.  But they should look like the zombies we fight.

Edited by leaderdog (see edit history)
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13 hours ago, leaderdog said:

Here this will show zombies magically appearing very well.  Watch Kickz intro to his video where the zombies aren't there then pop the show up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWBvePVkvhg

 

 

at 16:21 he goes on a bit of a discussion about zombies spawning in.

Thank you! That POI is house_old_mansard_01 and when I played the POI in a normal game, I got the same behavior as the start of the video. So I loaded it into the POI editor I notice that the spawn volume's floor is right at the top of the ladder you climb when coming up:

 

image.png.a70f9a5f1f43ff4a07695f751ea47f15.png

 

Normally, when following the One True Path through a POI, the sleeper volumes and sleeper zombie positions are such that you never notice them spawning. This particular volume needs to be one block lower down, so it triggers as you are coming up the ladder before your head is high enough to see the roof. I think this is a particular problem for sleeper volumes that you climb up into, since it's your feet, not your head, which trigger the volume. This explains why even when I was just barely into the Shotgun Messiah smelter room (in god mode) the zombies were in place and ready to drop.

 

I think I'm more in agreement now with @ZehMatt about POI volumes specifically (not so much about horde or buried quest spawns - those behave about as I would expect, given the context). I'm okay with the jump-scares - they weren't my favorite addition to the game, but I get why they were added and what sort of gameplay TFP are going for. But assuming that the main reason for having sleeper volumes at all is for performance (i.e. you don't want to spawn in all Higashi Tower sleepers at once!), then somehow the volumes need an expanded border area where the zombies can spawn in before the player will see them (and without dropping through ceilings, if that is the jump-scare-du-jour). They use tricks like hiding them behind walls or stacks of boxes, but that isn't really effective when climbing a ladder like above, or if you choose (as I often do) to deviate from the One True Path.

 

I don't think this is a hardware/driver issue at all. You can see the volume borders in the editor and see exactly how they behave in a real playthrough.

 

I'm going to go edit that house_mansard_01 to see if I can fix the ladder issue. Just for academic purposes.

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)
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26 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Thank you! That POI is house_old_mansard_01 and when I played the POI in a normal game, I got the same behavior as the start of the video. So I loaded it into the POI editor I notice that the spawn volume's floor is right at the top of the ladder you climb when coming up:

 

image.png.a70f9a5f1f43ff4a07695f751ea47f15.png

 

Normally, when following the One True Path through a POI, the sleeper volumes and sleeper zombie positions are such that you never notice them spawning. This particular volume needs to be one block lower down, so it triggers as you are coming up the ladder before your head is high enough to see the roof. I think this is a particular problem for sleeper volumes that you climb up into, since it's your feet, not your head, which trigger the volume. This explains why even when I was just barely into the Shotgun Messiah smelter room (in god mode) the zombies were in place and ready to drop.

 

I think I'm more in agreement now with @ZehMatt about POI volumes specifically (not so much about horde or buried quest spawns - those behave about as I would expect, given the context). I'm okay with the jump-scares - they weren't my favorite addition to the game, but I get why they were added and what sort of gameplay TFP are going for. But assuming that the main reason for having sleeper volumes at all is for performance (i.e. you don't want to spawn in all Higashi Tower sleepers at once!), then somehow the volumes need an expanded border area where the zombies can spawn in before the player will see them (and without dropping through ceilings, if that is the jump-scare-du-jour). They use tricks like hiding them behind walls or stacks of boxes, but that isn't really effective when climbing a ladder like above, or if you choose (as I often do) to deviate from the One True Path.

 

I don't think this is a hardware/driver issue at all. You can see the volume borders in the editor and see exactly how they behave in a real playthrough.

 

I'm going to go edit that house_mansard_01 to see if I can fix the ladder issue. Just for academic purposes.

Thank you for the thorough explanation. This is what I was trying to imply in my post, but I didn't feel like going into such detail.
So many are thinking that this is some code issue or pc performance issue.

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Well it is kind of a code issue, in that I think sleeper volumes are maybe a bit more crude than they need to be for a more seamless experience. I'm 100% certain TFP are aware of this, but maybe they just don't have resources to recode this part of the game.

 

I edited that house_old_mansard_01 POI to drop the floor of the volume down 1 block so it covers the top block of the ladder. This had the effect of:

 

a) all zombies are definitely spawned on the roof before I can see them and

b) they all wake up right away as I'm climbing the ladder and the buzzards especially will get to me as I'm still climbing

 

I checked the volume's properties and it has xuiSleeperVolumeTrigger=Attack which - I learned today - means exactly what it sounds like - if you activate the volume, the sleepers attack immediately. I changed that to 'Active' and then I got the behavior I wanted - zombies on the roof, but not attacking until I make noise.

 

image.png.007c40122ac1acd06022121ede173343.png

 

Probably some judicious tweaking of sleeper volumes could fix some, but not all, of the spawning-in-your-face issues. I don't know that there is a real solution, under the current sleeper mechanics, for people coming in from outside the One True Path. From the air, for example, for this rooftop. There is just no way to avoid the sleepers popping into view without making the volume reach to the top of the sky and also many blocks radius around the POI. Don't think that makes sense.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Boidster said:

From the air, for example, for this rooftop. There is just no way to avoid the sleepers popping into view without making the volume reach to the top of the sky and also many blocks radius around the POI. Don't think that makes sense.

Yes, that is a problem. They've hidden zombies in things on some rooftops, but some do exist with this problem.
I'm hoping they either stop this rooftop madness, or make it so that volumes can trigger an activated/deactivated boolean switch on other volumes. You could then activate the rooftop volume if and only if some other volume is triggered along the desired path. Otherwise, the rooftop volume would be deactivated coming from the sky, and no zombies. Being that they came from the sky, there could be a volume to detect that coming from that direction, which could activate a volume below the roof, and those spawned zombies would come up some stairs at you instead.

Edited by AtomicUs5000 (see edit history)
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14 minutes ago, Reckis said:

@Boidster I wonder how difficult it would be to add some kind of trigger radius (with configurable sizes, of course) to sleeper volumes? I know next to nothing about programming so this might be a totally silly concept.

It is not a silly concept and while I was a (non-game) programmer for the first 15 years of my career I don't really know anything about the particulars of how sleepers and sleeper volumes are coded in the game so I can't say how easy it would be. ZehMatt has apparently reverse-engineered the source code so he might be able to comment.

 

11 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

I'm hoping they either stop this rooftop madness, or make it so that volumes can trigger an activated/deactivated boolean switch on other volumes.

Yep, this is similar to Reckis' (and my own) idea on it. Basically a sort of pre-load of volumes before you really get too close to them. I wonder if they could have volumes load up within a 16-block spherical radius without destroying performance. In a POI like that house, essentially the entire house would load up as soon as you entered the door, but also when you get within 16 blocks of the roof the roof zombies would spawn. Probably still visibly popping into view, but I don't know if that's avoidable.

 

In something like Higashi Tower, most of the zombies on the floor you're on, plus some on the floor or two above, would be in place and ready to go in case you decide to bust through walls instead of following the path. The volumes would still have their own trigger actions (zombies attack!) but the entities would already have spawned in, dormant.

 

<shrug> All very easy to say, probably harder to code and even if it could be fixed in code there are 700? 800? POIs that might need to be touched. Lots of work even if it is fairly straightforward work.

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10 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Ok, so you've listed off bare minimum stats for the CPU's, and haven't listed a single GPU that meets recommended specs.

  

Go ahead an name one other game that's as demanding as this one. I challenge you to find one. Especially one that supposedly runs without issues on your systems.

 

That's fine though. Here's one of my recent test builds.

Motherboard: Intel DG33BU
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2.4GHz (4c/4t)
RAM: 8GB Dual-Channel DDR2 @ 800MHz
GPU: MSI GeForce GTX 770 2GB Twin Frozr Gaming OC
Storage: 1TB WD Black
Speccy

 

Now in this machine, the difference between a bloated system and an optimized system was 45FPS for bloated, and 60FPS optimized in a18. In a19's borked b169 update, it was 36/55. I can test it again this afternoon and I'm sure we'll see that 55 go up quite a bit due to recent optimizations.

 

Do I have zeds spawning in front of my in POI's? Sometimes. When I'm monitoring system usage I see that there is definitive peak in CPU and RAM allocation when this occurs. Given that the PC is at min spec, and I'm pushing the limits of the video settings for the hardware, I understand why it's happening. If I lowered the resolution from 1080p to 720p, and adjust the graphics a bit it's no longer an issue. Why? Because the CPU has to work less, and there is lower RAM allocation.

 

So some questions for you here.

1. Do you have any PC's that actually meet recommended specs?

2. Have you fully excluded the client from security software?

3. Have you cleaned up these computers and shut down all unnecessary background tasks? (I mean since they don't meet recommended specs, it's basically a given that you have to.)

4. Have you actually looked at the minimum recommended system requirements?  (Not minimum required. That just means you can start the game and play it with probably 30FPS.)

Okay before anything what are the actual recommended specs? Because when i check the steam page or the systemrequirementslab it says i meet the minimum and the recommended settings for this game:

 

4gb video card ram: check

3ghz or faster quad cpu: check ( Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz )

12gb ram: check i have 16gb

 

2. Yes, i do that for every game i plan to play multiplayer on.

3. I clean regularly and remove the background tasks.

4. See first question, unless theres another page showing the games actual requiements what i not yet found then no. I have not.

 

 

Sidenote: I entered the map i play on and after this strange "black blocks what dont actually exist" error showed up i gone into the factory to look around there were no zombies on the pipes but i gone out and activated the "pois" command to get rid of those annoying black blocks and the zombies simultenously spawned as the command went live.

 

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11 minutes ago, Solomon said:

Okay before anything what are the actual recommended specs? Because when i check the steam page or the systemrequirementslab it says i meet the minimum and the recommended settings for this game:

 

Looks like you meet the recommended specs, at least according to this

 

https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/3998-support-faq-information-and-common-solutions/?tab=comments#comment-47968

 

"For GPU reference, I am currently assuming a Geforce 650 or equivalent for minimum, and a GTX 660 Ti or higher for recommended."

 

Personally, I'm running with an i9 9900K, 32 GB ram, and a Geforce 2080 GTX and I have, rarely, seen zombies pop in right in front of me.

 

 

Edited by Kalen (see edit history)
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This is part of the contention I have with the listed specs. They give some information, but the data is way too generic. However if it was more detailed, 3/4 of the people reading it wouldn't understand it.

The intended CPU for minimum recommended would be like a 4th or 5th gen Intel, not a 2nd gen. Even a 3rd gen would run circles around your 2nd gen. RAM would be a minimum DDR3 1333. Minimum recommended GPU has 4GB VRAM. That post needs to be updated.

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I guess like anything else the inability to suspend disbelief has a variety of sensitivities and triggers for different people. 
 

I just count myself lucky to be able to easily have fun and enjoy the game without being ripped out of immersion by so many factors. Some of you try so hard to not enjoy yourselves. 

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34 minutes ago, Roland said:

I guess like anything else the inability to suspend disbelief has a variety of sensitivities and triggers for different people. 
 

I just count myself lucky to be able to easily have fun and enjoy the game without being ripped out of immersion by so many factors. Some of you try so hard to not enjoy yourselves. 

Imagine the old Mario games had enemies suddenly pop into existence, I bet no one would have liked the game as much as it they did. Its a bit different just knowing they are "off-screen" vs "may or may not show up"

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Minimum requirements on steam also say you need 2GB dedicated graphic memory and a dual core with 2.4GHZ. Really needs an update, in the forums and on steam.

 

There is a propblem with the sleeper volumes. Red Mesa at the entrance and the Shotgun Messiah outdoor shooting range are impossible with stealth. No matter wich gear and skills they always wake up when i am still really far away even when gear and skills for stealth are nearly maxed. There is other POI´s where this happens too. No idea if this is related to Z´s spawning in your face tough.

 

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, ZehMatt said:

Imagine the old Mario games had enemies suddenly pop into existence, I bet no one would have liked the game as much as it they did. Its a bit different just knowing they are "off-screen" vs "may or may not show up"

I was more talking about complaints of zombies in rafters and closets. Popping into existence on top of you would be a bug— though one I have not experienced myself now for a few alphas. 
 

I like your design concept of zombies moving in from the edge of the rendered area but not as a replacement for sleepers. I like houses pre-seeded with sleeper zombies but would like for new zombies to spawn at the edge and move in as I killed each sleeper.  
 

Of course, if you just increase the biome spawns in general it doesn’t take very long for lots of zombies in the area to sense you in the POI and start barging in so you kind of get this simply by increasing biome spawns. 
 

I made the mistake of increasing them too much (8x) as I found it almost impossible to clear a POI before I ended up with dozens of new zombies milling around in the house. 

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

There is a propblem with the sleeper volumes. Red Mesa at the entrance and the Shotgun Messiah outdoor shooting range are impossible with stealth. No matter wich gear and skills they always wake up when i am still really far away even when gear and skills for stealth are nearly maxed. There is other POI´s where this happens too.

It is likely an intentional setting by the POI designer, as I discovered with the house_old_mansard_01 POI. The sleeper volume can be set to "attack" as soon as you enter the volume. Stealth does not apply whatsoever - as soon as you enter the volume, they spawn + wake up + attack.

 

40 minutes ago, Roland said:

Popping into existence on top of you would be a bug— though one I have not experienced myself now for a few alphas. 

You can experience it pretty quickly if you check out the house_old_mansard_01 poi. It's in the PREGEN maps and probably in any large map. The configuration of the rooftop sleeper volume will pretty much make it mandatory that the zombies pop in (assuming you are looking at the rooftop as you climb the ladder).

 

I agree that it is a bug, but it's a "this is working as designed, but the design is suboptimal" bug, not a "this is broken" bug. I showed above how a small change to that specific POI (nevermind the dozens/hundreds of others that might have similar situations) can make the zombie spawning more natural and impossible to "pop in" as long as you are following the path.

 

I'm convinced this is not a hardware or driver issue, at least not in POIs with sleeper volumes configured certain ways.

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