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Tried A19, A16 is still best Alpha


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2 hours ago, manni44 said:

if this is sooo good why didnt we keep the degrading system we had already ? 

 

Well I thought it was good. It was removed when the weapons changed to having mods because the way weapons degraded before was to lose quality tiers and that would cause mod slots to be lost which would be problematic if all slots were filled. 
 

But they could give weapons a limit on how many times they could be repaired without affecting quality level or mod slots and then we could have it back. 

1 hour ago, manni44 said:

I will sit here in the Corner of the forums Super High pich screaming until this talk about any tool/weapon degration on repair has ended forever 😱

Huh....nothing.

But my dog is going crazy.....

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1 minute ago, Roland said:

But they could give weapons a limit on how many times they could be repaired without affecting quality level or mod slots and then we could have it back. 

I'd like to see them add the ability for degraded items to lose quality but keep their mod slots.   I dont think you could do that in XML so it would require code changes.

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5 minutes ago, Roland said:

Well I thought it was good. It was removed when the weapons changed to having mods because the way weapons degraded before was to lose quality tiers and that would cause mod slots to be lost which would be problematic if all slots were filled. 
 

But they could give weapons a limit on how many times they could be repaired without affecting quality level or mod slots and then we could have it back. 

 

1 hour ago, manni44 said:

I will sit here in the Corner of the forums Super High pich screaming until this talk about any tool/weapon degration on repair has ended forever 😱

i realy dont like anthing to do with that its just useless... instead of selling junk to the trader i would have to store the t3 q6 junk and switch it from time to time ... no addition to the gameplay at all just useless inventory management

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1 hour ago, Gr.o.m. said:

It was just  stupid grind. Get the corresponding parts and put it into the combine part of the workbench: voila shiny new toy.

Then use it some time and get more parts and agin put it into the combine slot. Rinse and repeat. 

Same with LBD. Craft heaps of useless stone tools to grind to maxskill.

 

Zombi-Ai was also terrible in A16. Zombies running in circles. No means to funnel them or play with AI.

I think you are confusing a couple different mechanics there. We had an assemble interface to combine parts into weapons. Separately, we could place two duplicate items in the combine slot of the workbench to raise them to one with a higher quality tier. 
 

Neither of those will be returning. But neither of those have anything to do with your weapon eventually breaking beyond repair requiring you to need to craft or find a replacement. Weapons lasting forever once you have them is bad for the game. Crafting one to replace the one you had isn’t even in the same league as spam crafting. 

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8 minutes ago, Roland said:

Neither of those will be returning. But neither of those have anything to do with your weapon eventually breaking beyond repair requiring you to need to craft or find a replacement. Weapons lasting forever once you have them is bad for the game. Crafting one to replace the one you had isn’t even in the same league as spam crafting. 

 

Cant see how its bad for the game. I think its great for the game if weapons and tools dont break after 5 repairs. U suggest we should craft a new Tool/gun after the old one brakes ? so we will be able to craft T6 stuff soon ? hahah never gonna happen 

Edited by manni44 (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, manni44 said:

 

i realy dont like anthing to do with that its just useless... instead of selling junk to the trader i would have to store the t3 q6 junk and switch it from time to time ... no addition to the gameplay at all just useless inventory management

That might be true in the late game when you have crates of parts, heaps of money, and skills in a few different weapon types but for quite awhile up to that point you might find a Blue M60 and once it’s used up it might be awhile before you get the parts or can find another so for a short while you have to do without which changes up your gameplay. 
 

Also, maybe you aren’t specc’ed into M60s so the best you could craft would be a brown one which you might do until you can find a better one. 
 

With no degradation once you have a purple level weapon finding any quality of that weapon is a waste other than to sell it and there is zero weight to that decision. 
 

with degradation if you find a duplicate you might save it, or keep it for parts, or sell it. But now there is more value to your find and more weight to the choice of what to do with it. 

2 minutes ago, manni44 said:

 

Cant see how its bad for the game. I think its great for the game if weapons and tools dont break after 5 repairs.


I was thinking more like three repairs. Five is too insignificant. 

 

2 minutes ago, manni44 said:

U suggest we should craft a new Tool/gun after the old one brakes ? so we will be able to craft T6 stuff soon ?


Yes. Craft a new one or find a new one in loot or for sale at the traders. No. There is currently no plan to allow T6 crafting again. T5 is the limit of our ability to craft. T6 is to be rewards and rare finds. 

 

3 minutes ago, manni44 said:

hahah never gonna happen

Stock up on throat lozenges, Dude. I have a feeling you might need them....

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6 minutes ago, Roland said:

That might be true in the late game when you have crates of parts, heaps of money, and skills in a few different weapon types but for quite awhile up to that point you might find a Blue M60 and once it’s used up it might be awhile before you get the parts or can find another so for a short while you have to do without which changes up your gameplay. 
 

Also, maybe you aren’t specc’ed into M60s so the best you could craft would be a brown one which you might do until you can find a better one. 
 

With no degradation once you have a purple level weapon finding any quality of that weapon is a waste other than to sell it and there is zero weight to that decision. 
 

with degradation if you find a duplicate you might save it, or keep it for parts, or sell it. But now there is more value to your find and more weight to the choice of what to do with it. 

why on earth sould i use i a gun im not specced in ? or even try to build one? if i spec into snipers i play sniper only, or spec in strength too u play shotty so all u are doing is to hunt down new guns. again and agian. for what reason ? whats the reason to force me to get a new gun after every hordenight. how long should a gun last now ? 10 kills ? 50 kills? 100 kills ? 

i know i know its all to expand stoneage and early gameplay because they cant make the game any harder as it is right now.... so sad 

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5 minutes ago, manni44 said:

 

Cant see how its bad for the game. I think its great for the game if weapons and tools dont break after 5 repairs. U suggest we should craft a new Tool/gun after the old one brakes ? so we will be able to craft T6 stuff soon ? hahah never gonna happen 

If tools and weapons have a shelf life you have to start making tough decisions, which is absolutely good for the game.   Should I use my quality 5 shotgun while clearing this POI, or save it for the upcoming blood moon?   If you chose to save it, then what?   Maybe you use a pistol instead or a crossbow or just a club.   Anything that makes you consider options is a good thing.   Currently, you get a quality 6 weapon or tool and you just use that forever.... thats boring.   

2 minutes ago, manni44 said:

why on earth sould i use i a gun im not specced in ?

Because a survival game should be about making use of whatever you can find.... not just whats optimal.

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4 minutes ago, Kalen said:

If tools and weapons have a shelf life you have to start making tough decisions, which is absolutely good for the game.   Should I use my quality 5 shotgun while clearing this POI, or save it for the upcoming blood moon?   If you chose to save it, then what?   Maybe you use a pistol instead or a crossbow or just a club.   Anything that makes you consider options is a good thing.   Currently, you get a quality 6 weapon or tool and you just use that forever.... thats boring.   

this would make totaly sense ive there wasnt the skill tree where u spec in weapons .. once u choose a gun u not specced in u loose 300% DMG or more... which means u are stuck with kinda 1 or 2 guns u specced in ... there are no big tough choices to make... only option is to farm all day long for throw away guns to replace what ever. 

Edited by manni44 (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, manni44 said:

this would make totaly sense ive there wasnt the skill tree where u spec in weapons .. once u choose a gun u not specced in u loose 300% DMG or more... which means u are stuck with kinda 1 or 2 guns u specced in ... there are no big tough choices to make... only option is to farm all day long for throw away guns to replace what ever. 

Not sure if you've tried it or not.... but even unspecced guns are pretty good.   Like I said, part of a survival game is not always being in the best position.... but making the best of what you got.   Succeeding in those circumstances can be pretty fun.

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Just now, Kalen said:

Not sure if you've tried it or not.... but even unspecced guns are pretty good.   Like I said, part of a survival game is not always being in the best position.... but making the best of what you got.   Succeeding in those circumstances can be pretty fun.

this is not a survival game anymore its a linear RPG with survival elements. unspecced guns are good? yah on easy settings they are all good even without any skills. 

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26 minutes ago, Roland said:

I think you are confusing a couple different mechanics there. We had an assemble interface to combine parts into weapons. Separately, we could place two duplicate items in the combine slot of the workbench to raise them to one with a higher quality tier. 
 

Neither of those will be returning. But neither of those have anything to do with your weapon eventually breaking beyond repair requiring you to need to craft or find a replacement. Weapons lasting forever once you have them is bad for the game. Crafting one to replace the one you had isn’t even in the same league as spam crafting. 

The theme of the thread is, that back in A16 everything was better.

The weapon degrading back there could be reworked with the combine station, so yes there was weapon degrading but it was weapon grinding in A16.

 

As a horder under the sun, I hate systems where your toys cannot be repaired. It doesn't prevend the point where you are so overpowerd that you have to restart. But it steals away the joy to use your shiny new toy. That is the reason I absolutly hate those mechanisms.

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2 minutes ago, manni44 said:

why on earth sould i use i a gun im not specced in ?

Because <shocker> guns you aren’t specc’ed into still work and are often fun to use. If the game prevented you from equipping weapons outside your class I would agree with you but it doesn’t and the ammo they use still kills zombies.

 

Fold up your min/max spreadsheet and stop limiting yourself. 
 

10 minutes ago, manni44 said:

if i spec into snipers i play sniper only, or spec in strength too u play shotty so all u are doing is to hunt down new guns. again and agian. for what reason ? whats the reason to force me to get a new gun after every hordenight.


I see...you don’t enjoy the exploration and process of scavenging or the fun of crafting. You just want to have the gun and until you get it it’s just all grind and drudge. Once you have your gun using it is the whole game. 
 

For me, it is thrilling to use the gun but it’s also fun to find it or craft it. 

14 minutes ago, manni44 said:

i know i know its all to expand stoneage and early gameplay because they cant make the game any harder as it is right now.... so sad 

You’ve wanted to use that line for awhile now and have been practicing it up for the right time. Unfortunately item degradation has nothing to do with extending the early game so your comment is out of place. I suggest you use it again when they adjust the traders. 

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3 minutes ago, Gr.o.m. said:

 But it steals away the joy to use your shiny new toy. That is the reason I absolutly hate those mechanisms.

If items degrade till they're unusable, you can have that joy of finding a shiny new toy over and over rather than just once.

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15 minutes ago, Gr.o.m. said:

As a horder under the sun

Hopefully you are using the term facetiously but if not please understand that hoarding is mental illness and not a good measuring tool for game design. If you never use your rifle because you can’t bear the thought of it breaking after 100 or 200 uses or so and then making a new one then your feedback is from a fringe view. 

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26 minutes ago, Roland said:

Because <shocker> guns you aren’t specc’ed into still work and are often fun to use. If the game prevented you from equipping weapons outside your class I would agree with you but it doesn’t and the ammo they use still kills zombies.

 

Fold up your min/max spreadsheet and stop limiting yourself. 
 

 

nothing to do with min max. What u suggest is a real pain on Insane/nightmaresettings. go kill a 64 horde at GS 200 with a gun u not specced in. just an exapmel.. its just no fun

 

26 minutes ago, Roland said:

I see...you don’t enjoy the exploration and process of scavenging or the fun of crafting. You just want to have the gun and until you get it it’s just all grind and drudge. Once you have your gun using it is the whole game. 
 

 

What ? please thats whats the game about those are the reasons to play the game. I realy enjoy them! But i dont like it to be forced to get new suff every 20 minutes just because someone likes to replace their guns or tools every 20 minutes. its useless inventory management and the time they need to code this they can use for bandits! they will be an addition ! 

 

26 minutes ago, Roland said:

For me, it is thrilling to use the gun but it’s also fun to find it or craft it. 

 

Indeed it is a good feeling  but if im forced to find a new gun every XX its no fun anymore its just another job i got to do with no WOW effect

 

26 minutes ago, Roland said:

You’ve wanted to use that line for awhile now and have been practicing it up for the right time. Unfortunately item degradation has nothing to do with extending the early game so your comment is out of place. I suggest you use it again when they adjust the traders. 

 

IT does because if all guns/tools get destroed from T0 to T3 it will hit the early game way harder than the latgame. just because u have to repair the T0 way more often then a T3 gun. 

 

i mean im kinda already done with that, u guys will just talk me down here because u live in theres forums and realy want that. I cant express myself as i want because this is just my 2nd language ... GL with this i hope it wont come but if, i wish u lots of hours fun with it. 

Edited by manni44 (see edit history)
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On 8/1/2020 at 9:49 PM, Dethar said:

Because people would race to have everything by day 20, then get bored. Then wait for next Alpha.

 

 

 

One of the big issues with 7 days to die, the game does not progress with the player as difficulty levels off after awhile.

 

What I would like to see are more stuff like zombie bears on the blood moon, or stronger enemies.

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On 8/2/2020 at 10:44 AM, pApA^LeGBa said:

A16 was over at day 35 if you didn´t rush it, earlier if you min maxed.

 

That is because the difficulty does not progress with the player.  After awhile it seems the horde size levels off.

 

I have posted this numerous times, I feel we need better / bigger bosses on the blood moon.  Something that can destroy sections of the base so we have to spend a few days rebuilding, rather than a few minutes.

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56 minutes ago, manni44 said:

 

nothing to do with min max. What u suggest is a real pain on Insane/nightmaresettings. go kill a 64 horde at GS 200 with a gun u not specced in. just an exapmel.. its just no fun

Gotcha. You’re another insane/nightmare player who expects the normal game to be tailored to that optional setting. 

1 hour ago, manni44 said:

But i dont like it to be forced to get new suff every 20 minutes just because someone likes to replace their guns or tools every 20 minutes.

Me neither. Every 20 minutes would be bad. 

1 hour ago, manni44 said:

 

IT does because if all guns/tools get destroed from T0 to T3 it will hit the early game way harder than the latgame. just because u have to repair the T0 way more often then a T3 gun. 

 

I agree that it impacts the early game but the reason to do it isn’t to stretch out the early game. 

1 hour ago, manni44 said:

 

i mean im kinda already done with that, u guys will just talk me down here because u live in theres forums and realy want that. I cant express myself as i want because this is just my 2nd language ... GL with this i hope it wont come but if, i wish u lots of hours fun with it. 

Sorry that you feel you can’t keep expressing yourself. Your English is very good. If they never implement it then I too hope you will continue playing as you enjoy it. 😀

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1 hour ago, Kalen said:

If items degrade till they're unusable, you can have that joy of finding a shiny new toy over and over rather than just once.

If I would find the perfect item, I would not use it, I would still use mediocre items and it would sit in my inventory rotting for the moment I would need the best items.

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Hopefully you are using the term facetiously but if not please understand that hoarding is mental illness and not a good measuring tool for game design. If you never use your rifle because you can’t bear the thought of it breaking after 100 or 200 uses or so and then making a new one then your feedback is from a fringe view. 

I always try to bring back ANY loot into base. But I do not collecting garbage in real life.  ;)

But I know myself, that I will always tell myself: that situation is not that worse, that I have to use your precious items.

But what is more important that I know from my experiance as a gamemaster in P&P-RPGs, that most of my players doing the same thing. So consumables sitting in their inventory and waiting for the moment to use them.

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4 minutes ago, Gr.o.m. said:

If I would find the perfect item, I would not use it, I would still use mediocre items and it would sit in my inventory rotting for the moment I would need the best items.

If thats how you would deal with item degradation I can see why you wouldn't like it. 

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45 minutes ago, ~Kevin~ said:

 

That is because the difficulty does not progress with the player.  After awhile it seems the horde size levels off.

 

I have posted this numerous times, I feel we need better / bigger bosses on the blood moon.  Something that can destroy sections of the base so we have to spend a few days rebuilding, rather than a few minutes.

I actually wasn´t talking about horde night.

 

I´d rather have a tougher week. Repairing for days is boring af. I don´t mind building really big stuff. Even just for fun with no purpose at all. But repairing for a few days beeing necessary would make me stop playing tbh.

 

 

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)
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9 minutes ago, Kalen said:

If thats how you would deal with item degradation I can see why you wouldn't like it. 

I can deal with it, but I would not like it. And I would NEVER play a mod with item degredation.

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32 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I actually wasn´t talking about horde night.

 

I´d rather have a tougher week. Repairing for days is boring af. I don´t mind building really big stuff. Even just for fun with no purpose at all. But repairing for a few days beeing necessary would make me stop playing tbh.

 

 

Horde night is just one specific topic.   Other stuff such as mid-day horde size, zombie perception so they see further, hit points, speed..... nothing changes as the player progresses.

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