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Okay soo stone tools are everywhere...whats your opinion on this?

Choose your answers well:  

70 members have voted

  1. 1. How far in gamestages the stone age looting should stay?

    • Gamestage zero, it shouldnt be lootable at all.
      23
    • Gamestage 5, the earlier its gone the better.
      12
    • Gamestage 10, default
      25
    • Gamestage 15, i find it too short
      6
    • gamestage 20+, i prefer cavemen survival
      4
  2. 2. What kind of containers should actually have Stone Tools in them?

    • None, they dont belong into the loot tables. (okay maybe arrows do but thats all)
      18
    • Moldy backpacks, trash and their kind outside on the fields, because i can see someone getting mauled by a bear who thought a stone spear and axe will save them.
      48
    • Furniture because we all have a stone hammer on our nightstands.
      9
    • Sealed crates, i heard the neigboor has just ordered 13 pristine stone hammers for his collection of prehistoric weaponary.
      14
    • Safes, im sure i can fit atleast 7 spears into this box smaller than my screen.
      10
    • Zombies see answer 2.
      22
    • Survivors cache, someone left this thing behind. I can totally see them just stashing away some stuff they dont necessearly need.
      35
  3. 3. Should stone age loot (and in general all equipment loot) be increased?

    • No, we have enough items already.
      45
    • Yes, we need atleast 3 (or less) items for all ages, its boring how little variation we have.
      12
    • Yes, we need atleast 4 (or more) items for all ages. I like when i feel like im in an rpg raining items like madness.
      13


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With the slow progression we have right now (wich is highly appreciated) we need an additonal stage of tools. Scrap metal. And a bit more variety in loot early on. I really like the slower progression but looting has become stale. Trying to think of another sorft of armor for early on. Didn´t have any idea so far tough. (Wood?)

 

Getting always the same and exactly knowing what you get when is not very motivating.

 

@wizard puke i constantly avoid rocks early game because i think they are bears. 😛

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I am fairly neutral on the issue of stone tools in loot. Possibly a very minor immersion boost if there are no stone tools in loot, or at least reduced to a few realistic loot containers. But finding a higher level stone tool then what you can craft early on is kinda nice for gameplay reasons, so, not sure what is the better option. Nice poll btw.

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10 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Trying to think of another sorft of armor for early on. Didn´t have any idea so far tough. (Wood?)

How about padded->leather->plastic (like hockey pads)->military ?

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I think this kinda goes hand in hand with my original post a couple weeks back. Finding Stone tools in EVERYTHING you loot is rather dumb. Worst part is on a server I rarely play Im already game stage 50 at lv40something but still finding stone tools. I can MAKE IRON TOOLS at Lv5. This Looting system does NOTHING to make me want to play the game and instead just pushes me to kill more zombies. Why Loot in a game where 90% of the loot is now stone tools? Sure a Lv6 Stone axe is nice, but Id still prefer atleast a lv3 Actual Iron Axe you know? Lucky Looter is still worthless outside of opening loot faster.

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Posted (edited)

Did this two (or more) topics just got merged?

 

What the hell is happening here? (i also lost access to the thread to edit it because its now @Ghostlight's thread)

Edited by Solomon (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
On 7/23/2020 at 10:45 AM, pApA^LeGBa said:

I was bored when i had everything on day 14 in previous alphas. Welcome change tbh. Just needs more diverse loot in early game.

Love the progression as well. The older builds I was bored by day 14 every game. Now I have things to work for.

 

In regard to finding the stone tools, honestly, what do you expect would be left for the people who couldn't escape? All the good stuff would be gone first and therefore would be the least likely to find. Finding a basic pistol with a full mag in this situation would be like a winning powerball ticket. So to me, the progression isn't to slow. I think it is closer to maxing out skills, and I think that the games climax would be best if skill maxing and gear maxing was at a similar pace. How that is best achieved is open for debate.


Also, I just don't understand what you mean by question 3 in the poll?

The answers don't makes sense to me. What is being implied by the number of items?

Edited by warmer (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, warmer said:

Finding a basic pistol with a full mag in this situation would be like a winning powerball ticket.

Which is why it's easier to find a pistol in toilets than in gun safes, right? Didn't know powerball tickets were in every toilet of Arizona...

 

This has already been discussed before, but no one is asking for more powerful gear, just gear that isn't entirely repetitive, that isn't mostly useless and that makes sense for the container that's stored in.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Xtrakicking said:

Which is why it's easier to find a pistol in toilets than in gun safes, right? Didn't know powerball tickets were in every toilet of Arizona...

 

This has already been discussed before, but no one is asking for more powerful gear, just gear that isn't entirely repetitive, that isn't mostly useless and that makes sense for the container that's stored in.

you don't find gun in toilets anymore. lol also making sense for the container it's stored in is silly. Sometimes all you have to store your rolex in is a shoebox.

Edited by warmer (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, warmer said:

you don't find gun in toilets anymore. lol

Uhh, yes you do... At least I know I certainly did; I found all my A19 pistols in toilets. Is it different in this new B173 patch?

 

Edit: I just checked. Confirmed you can still find guns (and knives!!!!) in toilets:

 

 

Sin título.jpg

7 minutes ago, warmer said:

lol also making sense for the container it's stored in is silly. Sometimes all you have to store your rolex in is a shoebox.

Exactly, "sometimes", not all the time. Besides, these are mental gymnastics, average people will be weirded out to find loot where it doesn't belong, just like in movies when something doesn't make sense.

Edited by Xtrakicking (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, warmer said:

Love the progression as well. The older builds I was bored by day 14 every game. Now I have things to work for.

 

In regard to finding the stone tools, honestly, what do you expect would be left for the people who couldn't escape? All the good stuff would be gone first and therefore would be the least likely to find. Finding a basic pistol with a full mag in this situation would be like a winning powerball ticket. So to me, the progression isn't to slow. I think it is closer to maxing out skills, and I think that the games climax would be best if skill maxing and gear maxing was at a similar pace. How that is best achieved is open for debate.

That only makes sense when gamestages dont affect loot at all because right now when you reach the higher gamestages you start finding the same thing you would have expected in A18 what defeats this entire reasoning of why you shouldnt find pistols with full mags.

 

1 hour ago, warmer said:

Also, I just don't understand what you mean by question 3 in the poll?

The answers don't makes sense to me. What is being implied by the number of items?

It means how much extra items you want ingame like do you want to expand the stone age equipment by atleast 3 more different tools or not. Like do you want 2 more stone hammer variations?

 

1 hour ago, Xtrakicking said:

Exactly, "sometimes", not all the time. Besides, these are mental gymnastics, average people will be weirded out to find loot where it doesn't belong, just like in movies when something doesn't make sense.

Thats exactly the problem i wanted to find answers in the pool. @Galifrey1965 originally suggested a loot rebalance what puts all items in places where you can actually expect them, sealed pre-apocalypse containers should have pre-apocalypse loot, gunsafes should have guns, toolboxes should have tool and soo on.

 

There can be a few outliners like the toilet pistol but they should be rare and suprising, no one really likes when your looting effort always looks the same like opening 6 gunsafes in a row and its all blunderbusses.

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How I would deal with the Stone Age.

 

I would make it where stone tools would be only craft-able by players and they would only be tier 1 with the worst stats. Then the tier 2-6 stone tools I would rename rusty tools with a new graphic. Weapons might be a harder, you might have to redo stats so you could fit in a rusty weapon tier.

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I don't care what they are called, I do care that every single chest has the same shovel, axe and sledge for the first few days. There is virtually zero differentiation between what I find in a burned down house and a tier 5 POI. This to me is the biggest issue at the moment, every play through is exactly the same.  

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It positively sucks to open a wall safe or a weapons safe because all you're likely to find are stone arrows, primitive bows, stone sledgehammers, and stone spears.

 

Those sealed metal crates are The only thing Worth opening with a lock pick

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On 7/24/2020 at 3:38 PM, Solomon said:

But arent people raising their gamestage for the sole reason that the stone age deal is hella boring?

Personally, I don't think it is boring. In fact, the first few days are one of the most exciting and intense ones of each of my savegames.

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I don't understand why anyone wants a long drawn out stone age era... this isn't an RTS game you're trying to get into a better technology age.  You're in the last technology age because of zombies.  That doesn't mean everything that was disappeared and only to be replaced with stone tools and weapons, and then magically change as  your "gamestage" gets better.

 

If the pimps would have put their efforts into end game content none of us would be having this conversation.  You wouldn't even think twice about a pointless stone age era and how it's drawn out for about 40 levels. 

 

Progression isn't really that important at all.  That's purely a game mechanic to guide you in the game which was never necessary but was force fed to us in later alphas.  Some of you like that, which I guess is good for you.  But for the rest of us that want more to the game rather than more artificial slowed down stage before you can find a gun isn't truly an enjoyable game mechanic which is odd how so many of you seem to think it's fun.  I prefer melee and use weapons sparingly because I feel noise from a gun should draw in many many zombies.

 

The leveling and skills are restrictive, and the pimps are doing that on purpose because there still isn't any end content.  And if the end content is going to be the tier 5 quests that's an unfortunate direction.

 

Don't get me wrong there is still fun to be had, mainly in the direction of mods, but the restrictive play isn't enjoyable and starting over is boredom because you're doing 40 levels of stone tools again,  then again... then again.  until you just don't because you finally realize what the rest of us already know... It's boring.

 

As I've mentioned in other threads the only way I can enjoy the game is to increase the number of zombies in the world.  That has helped make it more interesting and fun, and you level faster because you're killing constantly.  Day 3, level 31 with 734 kills.  It helps move the game along.

 

But each to their own I suppose. :)

1 hour ago, PoloPoPo said:

Personally, I don't think it is boring. In fact, the first few days are one of the most exciting and intense ones of each of my savegames.

I wholly agree with this, but it also isn't fun for 40 levels.  I loved starting over, mainly because it was always a new random world, and the random gen for finding items is fun.  Locking crap behind skills (which isn't as bad any more thankfully) or level locking items was terrible.

 

I still enjoy the random gen and I'm glad they put the recipes for pretty much everything to be found.  However, looting has become stale because of the slow "progression"  which as in last post, more zombies speeds up the game and makes the nights more frightening.

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43 minutes ago, leaderdog said:

If the pimps would have put their efforts into end game content none of us would be having this conversation.  You wouldn't even think twice about a pointless stone age era and how it's drawn out for about 40 levels. 

 

 

This is a great point.... If the goal was the stretch out the game, I would've much rather they stretched out the end game than the beginning game.

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2 hours ago, leaderdog said:

I don't understand why anyone wants a long drawn out stone age era... this isn't an RTS game you're trying to get into a better technology age.  You're in the last technology age because of zombies.  That doesn't mean everything that was disappeared and only to be replaced with stone tools and weapons, and then magically change as  your "gamestage" gets better.

 

If the pimps would have put their efforts into end game content none of us would be having this conversation.  You wouldn't even think twice about a pointless stone age era and how it's drawn out for about 40 levels. 

 

Progression isn't really that important at all.  That's purely a game mechanic to guide you in the game which was never necessary but was force fed to us in later alphas.  Some of you like that, which I guess is good for you.  But for the rest of us that want more to the game rather than more artificial slowed down stage before you can find a gun isn't truly an enjoyable game mechanic which is odd how so many of you seem to think it's fun.  I prefer melee and use weapons sparingly because I feel noise from a gun should draw in many many zombies.

 

The leveling and skills are restrictive, and the pimps are doing that on purpose because there still isn't any end content.  And if the end content is going to be the tier 5 quests that's an unfortunate direction.

 

Don't get me wrong there is still fun to be had, mainly in the direction of mods, but the restrictive play isn't enjoyable and starting over is boredom because you're doing 40 levels of stone tools again,  then again... then again.  until you just don't because you finally realize what the rest of us already know... It's boring.

 

As I've mentioned in other threads the only way I can enjoy the game is to increase the number of zombies in the world.  That has helped make it more interesting and fun, and you level faster because you're killing constantly.  Day 3, level 31 with 734 kills.  It helps move the game along.

 

But each to their own I suppose. :)

I think while the game Rise to Ruins is extremely flawed their current endgame should what we have here.

 

If you never played the game let me explain, its a tower defense town management game where you are fighting against the corruption. Its an area where the enemy spawns and it grows stronger and stronger till you eventually die from it.

 

We should follow the same direction, each bloodmoon survived increases the overall number of zombie spawns, their hearing detection, how agressive they are and how likely they form a horde to fight you. Maybe make that they deal less and less damage to blocks as this mess goes on so the player can kind of wait for death in their bases as they cant get out. Make the effect only work for regions so if you cannot live in the forest legion anymore because too many raging undead is there you gotta bail to another zone and start over.

 

Like in those zombie movies where entire survivors are trapped in big buildings because the dead cant come in but they also wont leave so they have to create somekind of plan to escape before the next bloodmoon wipes them out.

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I'm not sure what you suggest to improve your situation @leaderdog

 

No matter what game I have played already, you always start weak and small and improve your gear while playing the game. Shooter, RTS... all the same. That's what most players expect from a game.

 

Maybe you could start a new savegame, jump directly to day 100 and increase your gamestage to 500 via cheat mode (if that is possible, I don't know). Everything would be unlocked for you then and zombies would be way stronger 😛

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11 hours ago, warmer said:

you don't find gun in toilets anymore. lol also making sense for the container it's stored in is silly. Sometimes all you have to store your rolex in is a shoebox.

Pistols are actually back in toilets, they're just super rare. I've found like three pistols in toilets so far in this alpha. Although I'm not sure they have a chance to spawn in them early on, when it'd actually be a lot more useful, or maybe I just haven't seen one yet.

 

5 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

Personally, I don't think it is boring. In fact, the first few days are one of the most exciting and intense ones of each of my savegames.

 

I love the first few days but after getting a full stone/wood loadout it's so disappointing to open a Shotgun Messiah crate and get essentially 6 stone and 2 wood out it. The crate might as well be completely empty when you open it. Not to mention the safes that actually feel like you're wasting time when you open them to only find a few stone inside it.

 

It's not that I want an AK by day 7 on every playthrough but at least give me a pistol. I think maybe they should put guns in the early game but make ammo super rare so you don't have the option to go guns blazing the vast majority of the time. But more than wanting guns in my gameplay it's the fact that the 'good' loot gets so boring, repetitive and useless after a certain point early on.

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9 hours ago, Ornias said:

I don't care what they are called, I do care that every single chest has the same shovel, axe and sledge for the first few days. There is virtually zero differentiation between what I find in a burned down house and a tier 5 POI. This to me is the biggest issue at the moment, every play through is exactly the same.  

My issue is the same. the simple solution is to make stone tools not appear in the following: safes, gun safes, sealed creates, (up for debate) and reinforced chests/ the large metal containers.

 

Roland was mentioning something about a RAD system, where different POI's would have a spike in gamestage, but also have more harder foes in exchange of this change. meaning raiding a shotgun mesiah factory is much harder from day one, but the reward would be more worthwhile. the fact this system isnt in place and they did this change already, is leading so a seriously @%$*#!ty beginning game. its fine to find tons of ammo, but not a level 1 of any kind of weapon to use them with? for me it made questing the only way to play, since i could buy a proper weapon from the trader. (tho i hear they plan to nerf that too. oh goodie, trader can sell garbage too for the begining game.) 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

I'm not sure what you suggest to improve your situation @leaderdog

 

No matter what game I have played already, you always start weak and small and improve your gear while playing the game. Shooter, RTS... all the same. That's what most players expect from a game.

 

Maybe you could start a new savegame, jump directly to day 100 and increase your gamestage to 500 via cheat mode (if that is possible, I don't know). Everything would be unlocked for you then and zombies would be way stronger 😛

Well the thing is, I quit playing World of Warcraft because I was bored to death of the repetitive questing and the pointless raising of levels to fight the exact same mobs that were only marginally larger/stronger than the previous level.  I tried 7d2d and found it REFRESHING that you were just tossed into a world without anything and just had to fight to survive.  At that time there was no skill tree, no leveling, nothing.  Just find items and learn and loot and build and try to survive. 

 

It was quickly addictive and amazing.  I had so much fun for a couple alphas and then in came skill tree... and then all the shenanigans that followed. 

 

So a game does NOT need to have a hand holding let me guide you to the next thing with mindless monotonous quests, nor does it need leveling or anything like that.  A game like it used to be can be insane amounts of fun because the zombies, the building, the looting, the everything about it was absolutely amazing. 

 

They have made many good changes, and improved the graphics, still lots of optimization needs to be done.  All the game needed was more mid and end game content, possibly also having items if you want them in specific poi's (military, nuclear facility) stuff like that.  You'd have to explore the map to find some things.

 

Right now you're dumped beside a town and basically everything you need is right there. 

 

But I guess that's why we have mods for the game to keep it fresh.

 

Also, I already told you what I did to improve the situation.  Increase zombies in the world.  60 during the day 30 at night.  Far more intense. I like my zombies as zombies, I don't like bullet sponge zombies that's just no fun.  I do "gift" myself a green bat at the start as well.  As I've said before the loot is silly in the beginning and pretty near every home in the States is likely to have a baseball bat, being it's national pass time and all that. ;)

Edited by leaderdog (see edit history)
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22 hours ago, warmer said:

In regard to finding the stone tools, honestly, what do you expect would be left for the people who couldn't escape?

An empty shotgun, a broken axe, torn armor or even a weapon with full mags and ammo lying around?

 

Like honestly just what tells you that everybody in a sceniario like this would die with the homemade tools in their base. There are tons of zombie horrors out there showing how a big enough horde just wipes out the town and leaves with filled guns, intact tools and large stockpiles everywhere. Ask new players from A18 who died in their cheap base when they had no idea what the bloodmoon horde is what exactly they had stashed away.

 

7 hours ago, leaderdog said:

Also, I already told you what I did to improve the situation.  Increase zombies in the world.  60 during the day 30 at night.  Far more intense. I like my zombies as zombies, I don't like bullet sponge zombies that's just no fun.  I do "gift" myself a green bat at the start as well.  As I've said before the loot is silly in the beginning and pretty near every home in the States is likely to have a baseball bat, being it's national pass time and all that.

Exactly thats what we need, an ever increasing threat and not set of bullet sponges.

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I haven't even played A19 yet and will probably wait for A20. Was playing space engineers as it came out and nothing I saw pulled me over. I started A19 and had some weird gfx flicker (RTX 2060 Super) and with the other things I saw that annoyed me such as this topic here and the lack of love towards builders, I just didn't feel up to it. 

 

I watched the dev streams and think they are really cool, nice chance to get to know the guys and get an insight on the development of this awesome game. This isn't the first time I skipped an alpha and this isn't me complaining as I strongly believe the devs need the freedom to take risks while figuring things out. That said I wanted to give my feedback as well as a little more to give a sense where I'm coming from and what killed it for me.

 

A18 was a bit slow on the leveling for me which is why I stopped playing that, I couldn't grind Shamway lvl5 anymore several times to get a level and this Alpha seems even slower. 

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On 7/24/2020 at 1:00 PM, Solomon said:

Both of those are pure RNG, what is he supposed to do when neither the trader and the loot doesnt have machine gun parts or weapon parts in general?

 

The main problem of this alpha is that you can reach horde night without getting any single legit weaponary.

1. Put single perk point in explosives

2. Mines some nitre and coal

3. Craft up to 20 pipe bombs

4. Up your max alive to at least 16

5. Blow zombies up

6. ???????????

7. Profit

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So what do you get? Stone axes, primitive bows, Stone clubs, Stone Spears, Stone arrows... I just wasted 6 lock picks for this?

 

The reinforced chests however are worth looting.

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