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RyanX

Brightness is OP. Make it unavailable at night.

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Posted (edited)

The thing about brightness is whether or not darkness is an actual gameplay aspect.

 

I think it is, or it should be. Nighttime is supposed to be dangerous and game should try its hardest to kill you if you are outside of a proper shelter.

 

I feel that darkness aspect is real missed opportunity. I would like it, if night was pitch black, your light would iluminate only few blocks away and using it would make you a target. 

 

However to add another layer of gameplay element I would add some sort of reward for the increased risk - higher xp, higher chance for loot bag etc.

 

Heck, there could be perks tied to this, there already are few magazines. 

Edited by Onarr (see edit history)

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16 hours ago, Teal said:

Play how you want and let others do the same. I can imagine a flashlight mod for your helm or weapon would be the simplest solution without the devs or server managers forcing something on everybody for the sake of the few.

OH MY GOD!!! HOW how can you (as a group not u specificially) bring up the same invalid argument in EVERY discussion?
It is the same with the masks and corona. "Let everyone do what they please" is the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT as anti-maskers use.
AS SOON as it is to the detrement of other players fun it is NOT "just another valid playstyle".
This is not how society works! Just because oyu like hitting old people, doesn't mean that it is ok. BECAUSE there are other parties involved that are effected negatively.
Same here. This is an issue that disproportionally gives advantages to players that use it and leave others in the dust.
If this game was single player only, that is a totally different beast. Then it would be a discussion about challenge. But if you can simply put it up in multiplayer and others see you when you do not, it is not a "simple preference" anymore.

Can't believe I have to explain this each and every time.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Viktoriusiii said:

OH MY GOD!!! HOW how can you (as a group not u specificially) bring up the same invalid argument in EVERY discussion?
It is the same with the masks and corona. "Let everyone do what they please" is the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT as anti-maskers use.
AS SOON as it is to the detrement of other players fun it is NOT "just another valid playstyle".
This is not how society works! Just because oyu like hitting old people, doesn't mean that it is ok. BECAUSE there are other parties involved that are effected negatively.
Same here. This is an issue that disproportionally gives advantages to players that use it and leave others in the dust.
If this game was single player only, that is a totally different beast. Then it would be a discussion about challenge. But if you can simply put it up in multiplayer and others see you when you do not, it is not a "simple preference" anymore.

Can't believe I have to explain this each and every time.

Because, he have a valid argument. Adjusting the brightness is something every player can do , and for a multitude of reasons.

This discussion is like me saying it is unfair that it takes me two minuts plus to kill a bear with a wooden club, compared to

someone using an assault rifle, and for that simple reason alone all other weapons should be balanced to match the wooden club.

 

Or if you like real life examples, saying it is unfair a runner moves faster then someone walking, and running NEEDS to be forbidden.

 

New video link. it's about a minute shorter.

Edited by Kattla
Added back video link. (removed some potentially copyrighted material). (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, RyanX said:

"Just don't turn it up" you say?

 

I say "Helps the streamers, hurts the players."  Corporate like that.

 

If I played only single player, that would be fine.  But I don't.  Everyone and their mother turns it up so nighttime looks like daytime.  We go do a quest or run around at night, my buddies (and other players) can see fine, getting the kills before I do.  They don't need lights, and I can't see to them to stay in the group at the (more reasonable) settings I prefer.  On PvP?  No way you can be on equal footing.  But I know PvP is not the focus, before you plan on saying anything about that.  So I am talking about MP as a whole...PvE included.

 

What happened to the scary zombie game I was playing in A15-ish?  If you had raw meat, the zombies could smell it and came at you...or when they could smell your dysentery (eww).  I mean, fine, take that out if you want, but turning off the darkness....really?  If I'm in a dark house at night, NO WAY should I be able to see without light.  NO WAY!  And I don't want to be hanging back behind my party because I think nighttime should be dark.

 

Best solution imo is to make Brightness unavailable at night.  Make the nights shorter if you want.  This way the streamers could show everything for most of the day (turning brightness up if needed) and then at night...well, they have to use a light of course.  But the night is short.  Streamers still get good visuals, and players get the scary night time.

LMAO just turn it down then, that's what I do at night when I am not streaming/recording.

Edited by Galifrey1965 (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Kattla said:

Because, he have a valid argument. Adjusting the brightness is something every player can do , and for a multitude of reasons.

This discussion is like me saying it is unfair that it takes me two minuts plus to kill a bear with a wooden club, compared to

someone using an assault rifle, and for that simple reason alone all other weapons should be balanced to match the wooden club.

 

Or if you like real life examples, saying it is unfair a runner moves faster then someone walking, and running NEEDS to be forbidden.

 

New video link. it's about a minute shorter.

You seriously can not see where this argument falls on its face, don't you?
In this case, you remove a gameelement to get a tactical advantage. What about people who play this game for this gameelement? (the scary nights were the best in early alphas) Do they just have to live with the fact that they are outclassed even by noobies, just because they like to play the game as intended?

What your argument is better reflected is:
a) uses a nightvision goggle
b) uses a +1 dex cap
and b complains that a) can see in the dark.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE. Those are gameelements with pros and cons.


Upping the gamma only makes the game more ugly and gives you a tactical advantage.
So you either reduce your own fun or you get outclassed.

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5 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

just because they like to play the game as intended?

If the devs put the option right there in the game, isn't that actually the way the game is intended to be played?

Putting aside the madness, brightness option is useful because not every display is the same. Cheaper displays usually have lower brightness, causing the picture to be noticeably darker and harder to see. Brightness helps with this, ironically letting the player play the game as intended

 

Removing it means restricting the game to a certain level of wealth display. If they wanna do that, sure, but they should put that in minimum system requirements

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Just now, Raestloz said:

If the devs put the option right there in the game, isn't that actually the way the game is intended to be played?

No. Thats like saying bugusing is working as inteded. Devs are not allmighty and might have overlooked something. That is what feedback is for. And exploiting a setting to gain a tactical advantage is not "as inteded".
That is why they removed the clipping FOV "setting". I know it can still be done, but it is way harder.
They intend for the game to be on equal footing for everyone.
Brightness is not a wealth problem. I have like a 70$ Monitor, and I can see fine. If oyu bought a @%$*#!ty monitor, I am sorry. But saying that "exploiting is fine, because it can help the disadvantaged" is not a valid argument.
I am all for fixing this so that those with worse monitors get a slight increase... but I doubt that is realisticially doable. But that does not justify everyone else having to suffer for it.

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11 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

You seriously can not see where this argument falls on its face, don't you?
In this case, you remove a gameelement to get a tactical advantage. What about people who play this game for this gameelement? (the scary nights were the best in early alphas) Do they just have to live with the fact that they are outclassed even by noobies, just because they like to play the game as intended?

The option to change brightness is fully available to every player, and coded into the game, so it is intended players can change that setting as they wish.

 

I do agree the scary nights was better though, and so if i was to play this game again, i would stay home at night. I always did, and would continue to do so. But i am not going to force my way of playing onto others.

2 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

They intend for the game to be on equal footing for everyone.
 

A couple years ago their only intention was for the players to have fun playing their game. And fun did we have. Actions speak louder then words though, so it's not unlikely they'll listen to this cry for nerf too. It is why i like the experimental versions, since they are a bit more like the "good ol'e days" with the original TFP flavor. Which is a good flavor until it gets watered out by the salty cry nerf tears.

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2 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

But that does not justify everyone else having to suffer for it

Considering that many others seem to play the game just fine, this is exaggerating a bit.

I still don't see the problem. Others don't play the way you do, ergo they're in the wrong feels a bit much. The arguments I've seen so far basically puts you as the outlier in your server

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The reason there is a brightness slider at all is because there are variations in monitor output and physical limitations in eyesight across the spectrum of players. 
 

My own mother loves and plays this game and needs it brighter so that she can even play. Because brightness level is a requirement to even play the game for some, the option will always be there and always accessible to be changed individually client side. 
 

That some abuse the setting for the sake of cheating is less important than ensuring that everyone who wants to play can, you will just have to deal with it and your friends. 
 

faatal is working on making default lighting at night darker or lighter depending on the phase of the moon. They also talked about possibly having separate sliders for daytime and nighttime brightness. However, these changes still won’t stop someone wanting to cheese from turning up the brightness to see perfectly well at night. 
 

Here’s a question: what if all your teammates had NVGs but you hadn’t found a pair yet? 

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29 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

If oyu bought a @%$*#!ty monitor, I am sorry. But saying that "exploiting is fine, because it can help the disadvantaged" is not a valid argument.
I am all for fixing this so that those with worse monitors get a slight increase... but I doubt that is realisticially doable. But that does not justify everyone else having to suffer for it.


I would agree with you if there was no way to adjust the brightness and TFP set it high enough to accommodate everyone. THEN that would be making everyone suffer to help the disadvantaged. But the accommodation is an option that can be ignored or changed according to your wants and needs so nobody is forced to suffer. 
 

The only people making you suffer are your own alleged friends. This is the reason for the disclaimer for all web enabled games that your online experience may be different...

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36 minutes ago, Roland said:

Here’s a question: what if all your teammates had NVGs but you hadn’t found a pair yet? 

- I would wish them good luck finding a place i hadn't already looted the more valuable stuff from. :) They would need luck to find one.

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

Here’s a question: what if all your teammates had NVGs but you hadn’t found a pair yet? 

Well then there's nothing you can do about that.  That's how the cookie crumbles.  Go find a set.  Go look at the game Rust.  It's pitch black at night for EVERYONE.  Look how successful that game is.  (In before you can say this game isn't Rust nor does it intend to be or some BS like that).  So if you don't have NVG or a light source, you can't see.  Simple as that.

 

All I'm asking for is the option for server owners to turn off the brightness slider at night.  It's an OPTION.  Although I will say that I think playing at night with the slider slid up is ultimate cheese.  Do it if you want, but I want multiplayer servers to have the option to put players on equal footing.

 

It's fine if the devs don't want to work on any PvP aspects, their loss.  But not giving server owners the tools they need to mod it properly is a giant mistake ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE A CHECKBOX THAT TURNS PVP ON.

Edited by RyanX (see edit history)

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11 minutes ago, Kattla said:

- I would wish them good luck finding a place i hadn't already looted the more valuable stuff from. :) They would need luck to find one.

Man, there must be a lot of dysfunctional teams out there...

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Imo the most logical solution would be to give PvP servers an option to have an upper limit to the brightness setting to allow some variance, but disable the ridiculous max or near max values.
If the server has player killing enabled, give the admins a tickbox and a slider or value to control the limit.

In a PvE setting I don't see this as an issue.

I have a calibrated monitor. In a previous alpha I couldn't see sh*t during nighttime without a light while my friend was able to spot zombies quite well. We have different rigs (graphical settings play a part) and different monitors. I don't mind. Still it's a problem only for the early game when you don't have a helmet light yet.

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3 minutes ago, RyanX said:

Well then there's nothing you can do about that.  That's how the cookie crumbles.  Go find a set.  Go look at the game Rust.  It's pitch black at night for EVERYONE.  Look how successful that game is.  (In before you can say this game isn't Rust nor does it intend to be or some BS like that).  So if you don't have NVG or a light source, you can't see.  Simple as that.

 

All I'm asking for is the option for server owners to turn off the brightness slider at night.  It's an OPTION.  Although I will say that I think playing at night with the slider slid up is ultimate cheese.  Do it if you want, but I want multiplayer servers to have the option to put players on equal footing.

 

It's fine if the devs don't want to work on any PvP aspects, their loss.  But not giving server owners the tools they need to mod it properly is a giant mistake ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE A CHECKBOX THAT TURNS PVP ON.


The server option for disabling the slider is a good idea. It’s also a good idea before its time. 
 

This game is primarily intended as a SP and PvE co-operative game and a server tool like that isn’t needed when everyone is working together and not trying to rack up player kills. 
 

Perhaps when they turn their attention to PvP they will look at settings such as these. But for now their focus is 100% on allowing individuals to choose the settings that allow them to play alone or with their friends. 
 

I play games all the time with my friends and because we are friends we don’t cheat. That goes for card games, board games, and video games. 
 

 

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Let me say that again:
I do not care how you play it in singleplayer. You can mod the game so it is a dollhousegame for all I care.

But as soon as MY product is effected by it, I will complain. Then it is not a "play and let play" anymore. This is the same with hordenight exploits, lootroom framing or what have you. As soon as it is an option for a server to turn off (or better to be off as default and be enableble(?) ) I don't mind.
The only valid argument here is, that it is not a PvP game, so I have no real negative outcome if I don't use it.
The problem is, that, not only is multiplayer widely available, not only are there settings specificially to be PvP, but they removed the singleplayer completely by making it an "always online-when-online" server. That might be a bit nitpicky, but I still feel that they ...
wait... have they actually removed the PvP tag on the steamstore? I am very certain that it was there for many alphas...

Okay point taken back. It doesn't seem to advertise itself as PvP anymore.

Fine then... do whatever. Still think it sucks that there is no option to turn it off for servers... but whatever.

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Lil old grandma here who isn't 100% possible, but aren't there out-of-game options to increase gamma that server settings couldn't prevent anyway? If so, adding an option, at least during beta seems a waste of time better spent elsewhere, since it wouldn't prevent pvpers who want an advantage from getting one.

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5 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

OH MY GOD!!! HOW how can you (as a group not u specificially) bring up the same invalid argument in EVERY discussion?
It is the same with the masks and corona. "Let everyone do what they please" is the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT as anti-maskers use.
AS SOON as it is to the detrement of other players fun it is NOT "just another valid playstyle".
This is not how society works! Just because oyu like hitting old people, doesn't mean that it is ok. BECAUSE there are other parties involved that are effected negatively.
Same here. This is an issue that disproportionally gives advantages to players that use it and leave others in the dust.
If this game was single player only, that is a totally different beast. Then it would be a discussion about challenge. But if you can simply put it up in multiplayer and others see you when you do not, it is not a "simple preference" anymore.

Can't believe I have to explain this each and every time.

Honestly, a pandemic and precautions to keep it from spreading are a bit different than this small thing in a video game. From what it sounds like, many or most will use a higher brightness because it's 'meta'. Similar to how some will use max FoV in shooters as it grants a wider area of view so you can spot targets before they can spot you, given some circumstances. Personally, I keep my FoV on a setting which makes the game feel most natural (65-75) globally. Maxing out that FoV slider, while it might provide advantage will tatter gameplay for me, I imagine this situation is similar with OP and brightness.

 

Sure, minimize the ability to adjust brightness but as someone else said, it'll likely lead to people adjusting their monitor/GPU settings. As it is, the game can look good while also being visible during the night. When gamma was our only option, the game looked like crap and people still utilized it.

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On 7/18/2020 at 1:05 PM, AtomicUs5000 said:

With all the extra meat recently, bringing back the smell of meat as zombie attractors would be awesome.

it was an ok feature but they couldnt get it to work right so it was taken out. Not sure if it'll ever come back

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Even if you removed the setting players could still quite easily go into the software that comes with their video card drivers and just have the video card render brightness for all applications rather than letting the application decide itself.  And doesn't the helmet light mod take care of this anyway? I play in the dark until I get the helmet light mod but I sure don't want the game to be dark at night even with a helmet light mod.

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