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Aliblabla

Horde night is kind of weird

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My point was that horde night wasn't a problem; I ramped up the difficulty so that it was, but that wasn't exactly satisfying.  It turned into "How long can I survive?"

 

For me, it's more exciting to be going through a POI that I had previously cleared; only to find that it's now inhabited by zombies that spawn in different places and, since I replaced all the doors with open ones, they easily become death traps with unobstructed paths for them to come at me.  That's more interesting than seeing how long I can survive until I'm overwhelmed in a "bullet hell" type scenario.

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1 minute ago, hiemfire said:

The same thing that motivated people to play the old 8 bit arcade games that did that...

Which 8 bit games did that? All the 8 bit games that I owned reached some peak and you played until you "flipped" the score to consider it complete. Through Atari 2600, Atari 7800, to NES... I can't think of one that managed to become impossible.

4 minutes ago, Dracula said:

My point was that horde night wasn't a problem;

OK, but you said it was... confused at what the complaint is. How would you change it?

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7 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

OK, but you said it was... confused at what the complaint is. How would you change it?

It's not a problem with the horde; it's a problem with my desire to deal with it.  I don't think it needs to be changed and is more of a note in how the game progresses.  When I no longer find it challenging, I turn it off instead of ramp it up to where it would become "Survive the Horde" the game; which is a concern a few people have had.

 

My point is that it's hard to find a consistent curve that still balances scavenging/crafting and horde survival.  I'd get my @%$*#! handed to me by a running max-spawn horde if they're set to every night early game.  By late game, if I've amassed enough ammo it becomes a matter of mowing them down in succession and replacing the resources.  As such, I found a way to keep the game interested by head-cannoning that, sometime around day 70, the hordes stop due to me having cleared out the city for the majority of the zombies and I have to play as a cleanup/response team to remove the pockets that are left.

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30 minutes ago, Onarr said:

I see you have not encountered demolisher zombies yet

Do people really play this game with the spray and pray technique when everything incentivizes head shots? Demolishers are no different. Swap to a high damage weapon with AP ammo and remove the Demolishers head.

 

The latest patch also made blade traps no longer trigger the demos. By the time you have Demolishers spawning in hordes a solo player should have access to multiple ways of handling them, and this is even more true in MP where game stage advances more slowly and there are more skill points to be spread around. I'll grant you though that a player that doesn't know about them and hasn't previously encountered them will be in for a bad experience. However this is not a released game and we're supposed to be a part of the testing process. Complaining about the game not hand holding enough to warn about the behavior and capabilities of each zombie, as well as not looking at patch notes is just silly. That kind of hand holding probably should be implemented before release, but for now it shouldn't be necessary.

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3 minutes ago, Dracula said:

I found a way to keep the game interested by head-cannoning that, sometime around day 70, the hordes stop due to me having cleared out the city for the majority of the zombies and I have to play as a cleanup/response team to remove the pockets that are left.

So you are saying that at around day 70, you change the settings and turn off the BM?

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Onarr said:

I see you have not encountered demolisher zombies yet

Removing double post.

Edited by Whorhay (see edit history)

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18 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

So you are saying that at around day 70, you change the settings and turn off the BM?

Yes; and also make it so zombies run nonstop and are more destructive.  It fits with my thought process of those that are left are starving and desperate.

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Posted (edited)

I made a test with a base that is just a C, made the zombies spawn on the backside and they don't walk around even thow the other side is litteraly open. nothing to do with tombies in POI who find there way through hughe mazes

horde_zombies_3.png

Edited by Aliblabla (see edit history)

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46 minutes ago, Aliblabla said:

I made a test with a base that is just a C, made the zombies spawn on the backside and they don't walk around even thow the other side is litteraly open. nothing to do with tombies in POI who find there way through hughe mazes

In the first Alpha 17 they would walked all the way around the base. But in A17.2 the algorithm was extended and further tuned in A18.

 

When they are near the player, they sometimes break off their path and punch through the wall. This is random.

In POIs you can see that when zombies punch through the back wall of their hiding place when you are in the next room.

 

What zombies don't like at all is a difference in height. Therefore you can lead them with trenches and stairs to where you want them to be. Also doors can be used to guide zombies. Doors have for zombies only 50% of the HP they actually have. Therefore they prefer them over the walls.

 

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3 hours ago, RipClaw said:

they sometimes break off their path and punch through the wall

more like almost all during horde...

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If you guys don't like tower defense games, play something else.  With tower defense, we want challenge, we want some curve balls thrown at us that challenge our design, and we want it to get progressively harder so that we can build up bigger, meaner bases!! 

 

Remember, this game is a trifecta mixture of Survival, FPS, and yes... Tower Defense.  If you just want FPS, there are games that only do that.  If you only want survival there are games that only do that.

 

The game can always be improved, but we don't need some hand holding tutorial about building our base to beat hard enemies.  Look, play the game more than once, and learn.  It's not hard to start over and learn from your last mistakes.  Some of you sound like you died once or twice and want to quit.   Have you seen how many hours most 7D2D fans have in game?? Thousands, usually!! 

 

We love getting wrecked!! and then coming back stronger!!  I must have started hundreds of new games and built hundreds of bases.  That IS the FUN of this game.  It keeps on giving.  If you want to rage quit after one bad horde night, you should go play Pokeman or something.

 

Cheers! :)

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RULE 1 : never use ur home in the zombie night as horde base

RULE 2: build a zombiebase, or use a building and modify it

 

PROBLEM SOLVED

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6 hours ago, Whorhay said:

The latest patch also made blade traps no longer trigger the demos.

This is the first I am hearing of this.  Oh my god i'm amazed the devs did that, I thought they would just make them immune to headshots or have them start teleporting next.

 

Are you sure this is true?  I might actually get a couple players back, enough to start a server again if its true.  Yer pulling my leg.

7 hours ago, Dracula said:

How did you do this?  I had a mod that did so for A18, but I wish there were a "Zombie Spawner" list that would let me check exactly what I want the game to spawn so that I don't have to seek out mods.

 

We had to do file editing on the server setting itself.  No easy menu way to do it  At one point we set their explosive damage down a bit so it took more than 2 of them to wipe out a base but people were still rage quitting.  So we removed them entirely.  But that just bought us a week or so.

 

 

When you edit the servers settings you can actually tweek a lot.  Probably even the hunger, we used to make the gyros the fastest vehicles and everything run a bit more realistically. But some peoples PC's would have fits.

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16 minutes ago, Orclover said:

This is the first I am hearing of this.  Oh my god i'm amazed the devs did that, I thought they would just make them immune to headshots or have them start teleporting next.

 

Are you sure this is true?  I might actually get a couple players back, enough to start a server again if its true.  Yer pulling my leg.

Pays to read the release notes.

  • Blade trap hits don’t prime the demolition zombie 

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1 hour ago, gcomerfo said:

If you guys don't like tower defense games, play something else.  With tower defense, we want challenge, we want some curve balls thrown at us that challenge our design, and we want it to get progressively harder so that we can build up bigger, meaner bases!! 

 

Remember, this game is a trifecta mixture of Survival, FPS, and yes... Tower Defense.  If you just want FPS, there are games that only do that.  If you only want survival there are games that only do that.

 

The game can always be improved, but we don't need some hand holding tutorial about building our base to beat hard enemies.  Look, play the game more than once, and learn.  It's not hard to start over and learn from your last mistakes.  Some of you sound like you died once or twice and want to quit.   Have you seen how many hours most 7D2D fans have in game?? Thousands, usually!! 

 

We love getting wrecked!! and then coming back stronger!!  I must have started hundreds of new games and built hundreds of bases.  That IS the FUN of this game.  It keeps on giving.  If you want to rage quit after one bad horde night, you should go play Pokeman or something.

 

Cheers! :)

thx for your input, have no idear who you are talking about since i have over 300 hours gameplay and 20 bases but anyway.

 

Thats kind of my point it feels like horde night is a seperate game like something that is not integrated in the rest of it. Have made runs with horde night every night, 200% loot and 300% block damage. Had fun with it. Its just that at the moment it is a wired thing hitting you in the face in the middle of survival game. One way would to make more hordes spawn in the "normal" game so the difference would feel less hughe for instance.

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1 hour ago, 7daysOfFun said:

RULE 1 : never use ur home in the zombie night as horde base

RULE 2: build a zombiebase, or use a building and modify it

 

PROBLEM SOLVED

Personaly not going to do that. Don't see the point of buildling a base in a zombie infested land if it can't withstand a zombie attack. Feels kind of cheeseing to me. I will deactivate the horde in survival game and go for every day horde nights run if i want to play tower defense

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Aliblabla said:

I made a test with a base that is just a C, made the zombies spawn on the backside and they don't walk around even thow the other side is litteraly open. nothing to do with tombies in POI who find there way through hughe mazes

horde_zombies_3.png

Did you add a ladder up to you? If the can't get closer to you they go into smash every thing mode.

They don't care about the shape of the base. 

Edited by Nfg (see edit history)

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3 hours ago, Nfg said:

Did you add a ladder up to you? If the can't get closer to you they go into smash every thing mode.

They don't care about the shape of the base.

ladder ?  I was standing on the ground in the middle of it

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On 7/16/2020 at 4:48 PM, Lemmers said:

Demolishers only made this problem worse IMO as I'm not spending hours of my time making something that can be destroyed in 30 seconds when two spawn together and both path immediately to the weakest point to blow up.

very much agree on that one

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6 hours ago, Aliblabla said:

ladder ?  I was standing on the ground in the middle of it

Then they probably were just stuck on the corner of the block. Try using ramps around the outside. 

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10 minutes ago, Nfg said:

Then they probably were just stuck on the corner of the block. Try using ramps around the outside. 

I'm not sure "stuck on the corner" is a good excuse. The pathing should be better.

 

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Ah the zombie loot.

No matter what you put in the loot table before alpha 17 it WAS the reward, not the xp, the loot.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/17/2020 at 12:22 PM, Onarr said:

Aliblabla is right that the game does not teach you how to deal with horde night. Heck it doesnt even tell you ther WILL be a horde night. The problem here is for the new player. The onboarding is almost non-existent in current stage of alpha.

One of the reason people will ask for a refund: they see basic zombies, the loot system, barely anything about crafting and they have no "goal" to work towards.

I would buy this game today on sale, without watching any lets play (cause let's be honest: that's what gets people on board): I would ask for a refund before the two hours mark.

The game is super hostile to new player. The wall of text you get for playing tips (the feather icon that blink you notice WAY later than it is useful) is not anyone wants to read, there's no picture, it's tedious.

Edited by BeatKitano (see edit history)

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