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So was the point of A19 to get rid of "Realism"?

Should Primitive tools and weapons lootable in the first place?  

246 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Primitive Stone tools and weapons be found in Sealed Pre-Apocalypse Sealed Boxes?

    • Yes.
      40
    • No.
      141
    • Yea, Even though its emersion breaking, for "Game Balance" you should find survivor made tools and weapons in boxes from probably over a hundred years ago.
      24
    • No, I cant craft lv6 quality loot as a survivor, why would people from before all this happen be selling things youd only make after the apocalypse happend?
      28
    • I didnt read anything you wrote and just came here to say "Get Gud Scrub" Thus adding nothing to the conversation.
      13


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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, iamnuff said:

Repeating 'it's not done yet' isn't a proper defence. 

You're right. But my goal isn't to defend. My goal is to penetrate. There is an unwillingness to accept the truth that this is just one step towards their plan-- a plan, btw, that will address all of your complaints. There will be wider variety in loot containers, there will be the chance and opportunity to get exciting loot right from the beginning, there will be differentiation of the kind of loot you'll find in a small remnant vs a large Shotgun Messiah store.

 

You think I'm here cheerleading for this progression as it is and this is further proof that you just aren't comprehending that what we have is temporary. I don't want what we have now as the final design. As an alternative start to what we've had in the past it has been interesting and novel but I agree 100% that it isn't good for replay value and it is very linear. I'm kind of partial to a slow build up in the beginning so it doesn't bother me as much as others... but defend this as a good final design? Not me.

 

No...I'm just trying to educate. And at least Meganoth acknowledged the point I was trying to make so I know what I posted isn't impossible to understand. So I'm good at this point. I said my piece and you guys can collectively rant about something that will eventually be gone to your heart's content.

10 hours ago, iamnuff said:

The game is for sale now.

We all know that it's not complete, but the Fun Pimps are accepting money for it. so the current version of the game should be playable and fun. 

 

If this was still an unstable build, I could accept that they'd toss something out to patch this in the next week or so, but it's not and they won't. 

This is the A19 stable release, which means that this is the state the game will probably be in for the next month or more. 

And it's not fun

Which is a problem. 

Early Access to the development process is for sale now. TFP is accepting money for the privilege of experiencing the game as it changes over time. That backstage pass includes a copy of the finished game once it is complete. Stable build simply means the game isn't crashing for most players. It doesn't mean that what we have is now the intended final design. You should also be aware that it will be Christmas time at the earliest before the next major update hits that will further their plan for progression. As for fun, that depends upon the person. You hate it. I think it is an interesting change from the normal. Others love it. They can't hold back a release over worry that some people might not find it fun. Luckily, they make past version available to you can revert and keep playing.

 

10 hours ago, iamnuff said:

Also, going on and on and on about how the game will be better later is counterproductive. 

The game will be better if the devs get good feedback and can correct things to make the process more enjoyable for the players.

 

You trying to shout down anyone who isn't satisfied with the current build of the game in the forums is attempting to prevent that feedback. 

TLDR, stop harassing people who don't like the current build. People not liking things is an essential part of the development process. 

As Meganoth stated, they have a plan that they WILL see through to the end. In another thread I compared the finished progression design to an omelette. They just cracked some eggs into a bowl and threw away the shells as the first step towards their goal of a finished omelette and we are all in the kitchen with them. Giving feedback like "Raw eggs are gross. How is this helping?" or "I loved those shells. They were my favorite. Why did you throw them away?" or "Can't we go back to just having the eggs being in the fridge?" are not helpful. It is technically feedback. But TFP wants to make the omelette and they will go on to the next steps they have planned.

 

So what is good feedback? Sharing ideas and hopes and even fears you have about the finished product. Lift your vision from this particular step and try to understand the goal of the finished overall design and give feedback about that. If there are things you are fearful of that TFP might screw up then ask questions to find out if your fears have substance. Questioning to gain information is always going to be more constructive and productive than making wild speculations and accusations based upon assumptions.

 

As I said though, if you guys want to continue despite my assurances then by all means. I will leave you to it without harrassment. But I'll still lurk in case someone has a question instead of an accusation. I would love to answer questions as well as I am able as I am excited about TFP's plans in this regard.

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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5 hours ago, alanea said:

well its useless past day  30  and that alone makes "  manipulating zombies" temporary early game solutionnothing else

but i think i already learned that you just troll around forums  complaining about everything   until game accept all your crazy bizzare ideas

Yeah i heard this already instead of argumentation people just call the others trolls and pretend that they won by this.

 

Seriously the only point of the melee turret is to push zombies, it has no other function what means that their intented purpose is manipulating the pathing of the dead.

 

Also did you just countered your own points with this one?:

5 hours ago, alanea said:

especially considering the fact looting wont give you anythiong more  at that point

My whole argument is based on that there are not enough items ingame to even out balance and provide a smooth experience what you deny because we already have "too much" and then after you come and make the claim that as soon as you reach middlegame looting becomes obsolote because you already have everything?

 

Well as you would do so, im gonna call you a troll now.

 

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14 hours ago, iamnuff said:

Bullet tips require the tool and die kit, and a forge

Just how old of a version are you playing anyway? Or are you playing console? There IS not tool and die set. That went away ...hmm almost 2 years ago?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Solomon said:

Yeah i heard this already instead of argumentation people just call the others trolls and pretend that they won by this.

because you dont listen nor use  arguments you just repeat same bizare idea withou thinking about anything else ... thats trolling not discussion

Quote

Seriously the only point of the melee turret is to push zombies, it has no other function what means that their intented purpose is manipulating the pathing of the dead.

funny  because it had   like 20%   to knockdown and close to no knockback originally .... its weapon thats why it deals damage comparable to junk turret and its damage what you get from mods / quality  .. ti was just  so bad they tried to buff knockback  but  went too far  you can be sure it wont stay this way if pay attention to development of a19 theyw ant junk sledge to be something you carry weith self and use outside just as  turret ... and not magic base defense that throw  zombies several blocks away  or even bears ( dogs are glitchy btw they can fly  20 blocksaway randomly :D )

Quote

Also did you just countered your own points with this one?:

My whole argument is based on that there are not enough items ingame to even out balance and provide a smooth experience what you deny because we already have "too much" and then after you come and make the claim that as soon as you reach middlegame looting becomes obsolote because you already have everything?

 

Well as you would do so, im gonna call you a troll now.

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Futchmacht said:

They need to replace stone tools with low level rusted tools or Walmart tools the kind you get for $2.99 you know the high quality stuff. The whole idea was that you cant loot atom bombs on day 1.  Its game balance if you want to talk about wrong when looting.. Whats the chance you will find 9mm in a trash bag 140 miles out in the bush. Or in a office block in a file cabinet. the looting system is in a game. The game starts with you poor and @%$*#!ty... and over time you get better stuff.

yeah problem is they want  "basic tier tools"  craftable  what they can use ..  plastic ?  would be sub optimal early

maybe rusty scrap tools froms crap iron instead stones  but honestly they reworked loot completely in a19 by this ....immersion of stone shovel in box is minor issue that can be  solved later easily the big part is to balance loot progression so it feels like progress  and not day 50 with stone axe

1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

Just how old of a version are you playing anyway? Or are you playing console? There IS not tool and die set. That went away ...hmm almost 2 years ago?

lol .. yeah he have quite holes in knowledge about a16+  ... but point is right ... blunderbuss ammo is very easy to craft and unless iam msitaken doesnt require workbench ( didnt even have to craft  any myself ... it drops  together with all those blunders early ( day  1  pistol  + club  still works better tho)

Edited by alanea (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:

Just how old of a version are you playing anyway? Or are you playing console? There IS not tool and die set. That went away ...hmm almost 2 years ago?

Unless you play a modified version. I think in the Darkness Falls Mod there is a Tool & Die Set.

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3 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Unless you play a modified version. I think in the Darkness Falls Mod there is a Tool & Die Set.

well  if you play one of those big mods reworking 75%  game then you should stay away from discussion about current alpha i guess :D

Tool & Die  is gone  already for  a17 a18 a19 and judging something based on modded experience would be .....

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3 hours ago, alanea said:

well  if you play one of those big mods reworking 75%  game then you should stay away from discussion about current alpha i guess :D

Tool & Die  is gone  already for  a17 a18 a19 and judging something based on modded experience would be .....

Personally I do not play mods but I know some mods from streams. I can understand that players can easily confuse mods and vanilla.

 

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As much as I understand the reasons for it, this still doesn't feel great. Not once I've made a forge and am rocking my own level 2 or 3 iron tools.
 

2020-08-23_19-29-56.png

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Zombull said:

As much as I understand the reasons for it, this still doesn't feel great. Not once I've made a forge and am rocking my own level 2 or 3 iron tools.

Since you are apparently not satisfied with the current loot, how about installing a modlet that changes that ?

 

There is a modlet called "Fawk Loot All" at Nexusmods. It changes the loot tables.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1004?tab=files

 

Edited by RipClaw (see edit history)

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3 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Since you are apparently not satisfied with the current loot, how about installing a modlet that changes that ?

 

There is a modlet called "Fawk Loot All" at Nexusmods. It changes the loot tables.

 

https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1004?tab=files

 

I don't know, he seems more disappointed with the low-quality iron tools not being better than the stone stuff. A change of the loot tables won't fix that problem

 

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Read a few posts on the first page and it turned to bickering...

 

Here's my 2 cents.

 

Played this game a LOT. Finding level 6 stone spears and axes before finding a pistol/shottie is a bit of a stretch especially considering I have already accumulated 100's of rounds for each already(9mm/7.62/shotgun shells).

I of course went straight into lucky looter(4/5) as it was a fresh start, but no joy :(

No iron tools to be seen anywhere, even though I have found MORE forged iron/steel than I ever have in a18 pre crucible(I'm sitting at 48/57 pieces right now).

Was able to find a wrench/hammer after a long while but not forever(first 5 days?)

 

My take? I believe the early game loot(i.e. Iron tools and weapons/pistols/dbl. barrel) should be a bit easier to find. If you want more crafting, make the crafted items the high end loot for end game. Balances out a bit more. Crafted end game firearms/Armor AFTER you have become a master of your art... my honest opinion

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4 minutes ago, blkdeath75 said:

I of course went straight into lucky looter(4/5) as it was a fresh start, but no joy :(

Check out the description of Lucky Looter. This perk now works differently than in A18. It increases your gamestage by a percentage instead of a fixed value.
Eye Candy and the Lucky Looter glasses are better in the early game.

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1 minute ago, RipClaw said:

Check out the description of Lucky Looter. This perk now works differently than in A18. It increases your gamestage by a percentage instead of a fixed value.
Eye Candy and the Lucky Looter glasses are better in the early game.

I figured this was why I was scoring level 6 stone axes and spears.....nice to have but all it is is durability...they dont hit harder to my knowledge.

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Posted (edited)

Don't read into my comment. Just because I have feedback to provide doesn't mean I'm dissatisfied with the game. The game is a work in progress. Pretty sure the devs want to know how players experience it.

 

The linearly progressing loot would probably "feel" better if tools weren't infinitely repairable.

 

Also I'd try removing the stone tier from loot tables and add a high-end-loot-only titanium tier and only it would be infinitely repairable.

Edited by Zombull (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, blkdeath75 said:

I figured this was why I was scoring level 6 stone axes and spears.....nice to have but all it is is durability...they dont hit harder to my knowledge.

Where does this false rumor come from? Q1 to Q6 stone axe or spear is 50% more damage. And that's even without putting any mods into it.

 

Just like higher tier weapons and tools (i.e. iron and steel axes and spears), the only difference is that higher tiers also have random variance too.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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34 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Has it been determined if the point of A19 was to get rid of realism or not yet?

I tried to scrap it but it just gave me some XP.

 

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Posted (edited)

 

3 hours ago, Zombull said:

As much as I understand the reasons for it, this still doesn't feel great. Not once I've made a forge and am rocking my own level 2 or 3 iron tools.

problem lies in forge its not level locked .... if you find one you can spam tier 2 iron tools at level  1 ;) if you dont .. you can rush it and make your own easily during first week ( even if you are extremely slow and chase 1/2 week  first  deer) iron tools start realistically appearing on second week

gamestage is rather fixed number depending on days/difficulty/deaths/level......   it cannot reflect  your perk choices ... and most people rush forge and tools asap so you end up progressing faster than  loot in  tool area  but behind in lets say armor crafting

it would make alot more sense if  forge was tied to specific level like in a17

2 hours ago, blkdeath75 said:

Read a few posts on the first page and it turned to bickering...

 

Here's my 2 cents.

 

Played this game a LOT. Finding level 6 stone spears and axes before finding a pistol/shottie is a bit of a stretch especially considering I have already accumulated 100's of rounds for each already(9mm/7.62/shotgun shells).

I of course went straight into lucky looter(4/5) as it was a fresh start, but no joy :(

No iron tools to be seen anywhere, even though I have found MORE forged iron/steel than I ever have in a18 pre crucible(I'm sitting at 48/57 pieces right now).

Was able to find a wrench/hammer after a long while but not forever(first 5 days?)

 

My take? I believe the early game loot(i.e. Iron tools and weapons/pistols/dbl. barrel) should be a bit easier to find. If you want more crafting, make the crafted items the high end loot for end game. Balances out a bit more. Crafted end game firearms/Armor AFTER you have become a master of your art... my honest opinion

not rly restarted several times (every experimental) and always had  pistol at end of  1st day  ... toilets drop q1  pistols like candies .. and trader almost always have  one for  1800 dukes  in  first inventory  you get that in  1-3  quests

 

... quite  opposite ...  they dotn want  endgame  gear to be crafted ... they want you to grind it in big bad poi  because its  only reason to ever step into them  thats  why they removed option to  craft Q6  as well as removed Q6  from traders

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Where does this false rumor come from? Q1 to Q6 stone axe or spear is 50% more damage. And that's even without putting any mods into it.

 

Just like higher tier weapons and tools (i.e. iron and steel axes and spears), the only difference is that higher tiers also have random variance too.

so you want say  my  90 dmg  Q2 desert vulture with no perks  will go over 200  ay q6   with mods and perks ?  while still being  most accurate gun in game   with   3 shots/sec?  how could this thing get into stable release :D #balanced

52 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Has it been determined if the point of A19 was to get rid of realism or not yet?

well author is long time gone ... he probably realized that scifi game  wih magic  zombies  flying  spiders and guys  carrying 150 tons of concrete in single inventory slot never had much  "realism" 

Edited by alanea (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Has it been determined if the point of A19 was to get rid of realism or not yet?

We are going to need some analytics for that.

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21 hours ago, alanea said:

because you dont listen nor use  arguments you just repeat same bizare idea withou thinking about anything else ... thats trolling not discussion

Its not like you do anything different, are you?

 

Neither of us moved even an inch closer to a common ground, we just stand where we started i want more items if we want to keep up this tier limitation and you dont want more items because we already have enough.

 

 

There are games out there with over 300 weapons where they still create more and people dont jump into discussions with arguments like "why do we need even more shotguns? They are the same as the other 70 with minuscule damage upgrade at the cost of the firerate".

 

But lets stop argumenting for a second and let me ask you do you have any other reason why you dont want more items apart from having enough? Like its already proven that we will be getting more if you check up the items.xml for the game. We will get a junk drone, 2 more tiers for the stun baton probably 2 more guns and a set of pipeguns for the stone age.

 

To me this means that not even the devs think we have enough weapons ingame, so what other reason you have to not want more items?

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8 hours ago, Solomon said:

Its not like you do anything different, are you?

 

Neither of us moved even an inch closer to a common ground, we just stand where we started i want more items if we want to keep up this tier limitation and you dont want more items because we already have enough.

 

There are games out there with over 300 weapons where they still create more and people dont jump into discussions with arguments like "why do we need even more shotguns? They are the same as the other 70 with minuscule damage upgrade at the cost of the firerate".

 

But lets stop argumenting for a second and let me ask you do you have any other reason why you dont want more items apart from having enough? Like its already proven that we will be getting more if you check up the items.xml for the game. We will get a junk drone, 2 more tiers for the stun baton probably 2 more guns and a set of pipeguns for the stone age.

 

To me this means that not even the devs think we have enough weapons ingame, so what other reason you have to not want more items?

yes  it  means exactlyt hat :)

 they add   primitive tier  for existing guns we dont have  4  shotguns we have one shotgun line  with direct upgrades .. that show game is designed

 

same with stun baton ... it have no tiers .. they want everything to have same progression .. so they add  "types" of stun baton

the only true addiriton is drone ..  it was supposed to be in a18 ... its kinda upgrade to junk turret  t1sledge t2 turret t3 drone

its unique but we will see .. rom what they show us it have ridiculous blaster on it (lets see how immersion whiners take cosmic/futuristic laser gun :D )

yes some games have  300  wepons  with  200  never used and remaining  100  so similar that there wcould be three and no one would tell dfference

you completely miss point that  we have hundreds of guns as well  .. mods  have major impact  on basically every feature and every modded weapon  basically turns into different gun with same model  with  4  slots ( and who know if not 5 for legendaries) we have ridiculous options  ... idont really need renamed and remodeled smg with scope and same stats  but you clearly screaming for one

 

there are  two types of games

1) with ridiculous amount of  guns

2) with few  "bases" allowing you to wildly modify whatever you want from them  .. sure some are more extreme than  7 days allowing you make basically sniper shotgun

 

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Posted (edited)

The game is stable, but borderline boring now. Sure I can farm a lot of animals and I can even set a base between a forest and a wasteland biome and exploit the early benefits of both.
Most importantly no new weapons were added in the game capable of making me enjoy reseting the game. The hammer turret is definitely abusable, once you have it you can just set it outside a rotated door and it'll perma stun any zombie trying to break it.

 

I'd like to be able to get more items irregardless of the levels, or at least have a much lower level gate than before. I think making the skill perks' cost 1 skill point instead of exponential could aleviate that problem.

 

Edit: Also to add, I really like tower defense in this game. I wish we had an option to adjust the drop rate of zombies and just perma camp in our base having to go outside only for hunting and ocassional book looting.

Edited by Hollowprime (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Solomon said:

Its not like you do anything different, are you?

 

Neither of us moved even an inch closer to a common ground, we just stand where we started i want more items if we want to keep up this tier limitation and you dont want more items because we already have enough.

 

 

There are games out there with over 300 weapons where they still create more and people dont jump into discussions with arguments like "why do we need even more shotguns? They are the same as the other 70 with minuscule damage upgrade at the cost of the firerate".

 

But lets stop argumenting for a second and let me ask you do you have any other reason why you dont want more items apart from having enough? Like its already proven that we will be getting more if you check up the items.xml for the game. We will get a junk drone, 2 more tiers for the stun baton probably 2 more guns and a set of pipeguns for the stone age.

 

To me this means that not even the devs think we have enough weapons ingame, so what other reason you have to not want more items?

 

I can only speak for myself, I don't have anything directly against more weapons, they are just relatively low on my personal wish list. But I know they cost development time.

 

Time that has to be spent on much more interesting features like legendary weapons, vehicle mods, the event system, a story, bandits and some UI improvements. I can estimate that this small list together with a beta is already impossible or at least very ambitious to do if they really want to release version 1.0 in 2 years.

 

So partly I'm explaining to you why the chance for more weapons is very very low. And partly I'm explaining why I would not like them to change their plans because it would very likely mean one of the features above would get axed instead or get much less time to make it fully work.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
On 8/24/2020 at 10:15 AM, JCrook1028 said:

Just how old of a version are you playing anyway? Or are you playing console? There IS not tool and die set. That went away ...hmm almost 2 years ago?

 

Seriously? I haven't played since A18 but I could have sworn it was still there. 

I spent like three damn weeks looking for the thing before I could make anything other than shotgun shells. 

 

How do you make bullet-tips nowadays then, whippersnapper? 

Is there still a bottleneck on ammo production, or is it just Lead + Brass + Gunpowder?

Edited by iamnuff (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, iamnuff said:

 

Seriously? I haven't played since A18 but I could have sworn it was still there. 

I spent like three damn weeks looking for the thing before I could make anything other than shotgun shells. 

 

How do you make bullet-tips nowadays then, whippersnapper? 

Is there still a bottleneck on ammo production, or is it just Lead + Brass + Gunpowder?

You make them in the forge, exactly the same as A18, no tool and die set needed.

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