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Make Crafted Items better than Looted

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8 minutes ago, Sydious said:

I know we don't see eye to eye on this, and that is okay.  But, those are yes or no questions and you didn't answer.

I do see what you're saying, it's escalation.  But like I said before in multiple post...

7 Days To Die The Survival Horde Crafting Game.

Have we gone to bait and switch after all these years because TFP got a taste of money?

I skipped answering because the answer would be as expected, crafting is not equal to looting.

You can play without looting, but it will cost you a huge effort to get enough money to buy some necessary items from the trader. You likewise can play this game without crafting but it will be much easier to skip crafting than looting.

 

You bring up the title of the game. Have you any reason to believe that the name means actually that all the parts of it have to be on equal footing? The name merely says that all parts are important ingredients in the mix, and that IS the case.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Novamourne said:

 Not all looting is equal

I rest my case again...?.?.?

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3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I skipped answering because the answer would be as expected, crafting is not equal to looting.

You can play without looting, but it will cost you a huge effort to get enough money to buy some necessary items from the trader. You likewise can play this game without crafting but it will be much easier to skip crafting than looting.

 

You bring up the title of the game. Have you any reason to believe that the name means actually that all the parts of it have to be on equal footing? The name merely says that all parts are important ingredients in the mix, and that IS the case.

 

 

I suppose you didn't read my previous post then? (Page 2, final paragraph of my post.)

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1 minute ago, meganoth said:

I skipped answering because the answer would be as expected, crafting is not equal to looting.

You can play without looting, but it will cost you a huge effort to get enough money to buy some necessary items from the trader. You likewise can play this game without crafting but it will be much easier to skip crafting than looting.

 

You bring up the title of the game. Have you any reason to believe that the name means actually that all the parts of it have to be on equal footing? The name merely says that all parts are important ingredients in the mix, and that IS the case.

 

 

Well I'm glad you admit it is not equal.

I'm glad you admit you can play without crafting.  Yes it takes effort, but not much lol.

Yes, I bring up the title of the game because I have had it since 2013 and love it and do NOT want it to turn into something that is crap like most EA games.

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1 minute ago, Sydious said:

I rest my case again...?.?.?

Im beginning to think you don't have a case at all, tbh. There's nothing inconsistent with the things I've said. If you want to craft the best loot then you should have to put yourself at the same level of risk as where you'd find the best loot. Because not all loot is equal, you can find materials to craft in easy to survive environments so you shouldn't be able to craft the best loot. What's your case against that because it sounds like you understand and agree with my premise but you still want to disagree with me???

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23 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

OPTION C

 

When repairing a weapon the task should take absolutely ages. It's highly unrealistic that anybody could fully repair their gun in a matter of seconds. In my opinion it should be done in the workbench and it should take about 20-30 in-game minutes. A bonus with this system is you will no longer be tempted to toss away all the high-tier weapons you find; you might end up using all of them during a horde night. This would bring back crafting in a big way, and will create a system where T6 items are no longer the end-all-be-all. On top of that, this will slow down the economy; no more making tens of thousands of dukes.

 

4 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

I suppose you didn't read my previous post then? (Page 2, final paragraph of my post.)

I don't see how that has anything to do with my discussion with Sydious.

 

I don't really get warm with your idea. Sure, you have to take 2 replacement weapons for your main weapons with you but getting them is not a problem. I'm also not OCD about always having the bestest weapon with me, I'll kill zombies with a q5 weapon just fine even if I already found a q6 that is getting repaired at the moment. Making durability so weak that you have to switch weapons every half hour is a management nightmare. Sure, there is a positive effect for the economy, but the price in un-fun micromanagement is too high

 

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18 minutes ago, Novamourne said:

Im beginning to think you don't have a case at all, tbh. There's nothing inconsistent with the things I've said. If you want to craft the best loot then you should have to put yourself at the same level of risk as where you'd find the best loot. Because not all loot is equal, you can find materials to craft in easy to survive environments so you shouldn't be able to craft the best loot. What's your case against that because it sounds like you understand and agree with my premise but you still want to disagree with me???

Except you're wrong.... you can find a tier 6 item in a chest in a tiny little house... you don't have to go to the top of the shamway.   If you really want to restrict the best loot to the most challenging content, then remove it from looting as well as crafting.   You should restrict it to rewards for tier 5 trader quests.   

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Sydious said:

Well I'm glad you admit it is not equal.

I'm glad you admit you can play without crafting.  Yes it takes effort, but not much lol.

Yes, I bring up the title of the game because I have had it since 2013 and love it and do NOT want it to turn into something that is crap like most EA games.

"but not much". Sorry, just playing singleplayer and I had to craft the wheels of my bicycle, otherwise I would still run around on foot. I was so happy to have found a workbench at the trader (10 days earlier I had a chance to buy a workbench schematic, then it would have been crafting workbench AND wheels). I also could have invested two points in INT and again, there would have been no way around crafting the workbench. I crafted my forge, practically impossible to go without a forge. I think I have not found a working forge anywhere, but could be wrong because I after building that forge I didn't need to look for it.

 

I crafted my  farm plots and some seeds, without that garden I would have to use half my money and half my time for procuring food instead of doing something useful with my time for the rest of the game. I crafted my campfire, without it I would have to run somewhere whenever I don't like to eat raw vegetables that bring 1 food

 

Hey, I can loot cement in sizable quantities in POIs. Do you know what use cement has if you don't have the ability to craft it into concrete? None at all. Building a horde base without concrete? Have fun, don't mind me exiting through the back entrance 😀

 

Hell yeah, playing without crafting is possible for a masochist. I just don't think that theoretical way to shoot yourself into the foot has any practical application, except as a different way to play on insane. 😉

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

@Sydious Name me a crafting game anywhere in which you don’t have to gather materials for the crafting. You like the term “looting” because it rhymes with “shooting”. But let’s be honest. In any game that involves crafting, part of the crafting is gathering mats and some gathering is going to be easier and some is going to be harder but it is not a simple is there more gathering or more crafting. They are connected. 
 

The real problem is that as you gather resources you have a good chance of finding the very item you want to craft or that you just crafted and that item could be better Than what you can make which takes the wind out of your sales. 
 

If 98% of everything found in containers was brown with only a 2% chance of finding something better, then orange, yellow, green, and blue would be the domain of crafting With very little chance that anything found would one-up what you made. 
 

The devs have moved in this direction and hopefully they will continue shifting. 
 

 

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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1 minute ago, Roland said:

Name me a crafting game anywhere in which you don’t have to gather materials for the crafting. You like the term “looting” because it rhymes with “shooting”. But let’s be honest. In any game that involves crafting, part of the crafting is gathering mats and some gathering is going to be easier and some is going to be harder but it is not a simple is there more gathering or more crafting. They are connected. 
 

The real problem is that as you gather resources you have a good chance of finding the very item you want to craft or that you just crafted and that item could be better Than what you can make which takes the wind out of your sales. 
 

If 98% of everything found in containers was brown with only a 2% chance of finding something better, then orange, yellow, green, and blue would be the domain of crafting With very little chance that anything found would one-up what you made. 
 

The devs have moved in this direction and hopefully they will continue shifting. 
 

 

Is anyone saying you shouldn't have to gather materials to craft?

 

The problem is while out gathering (since you dont like looting) you will eventually find an item better than anything you can craft.   So far, from my experience, it doesn't even take that long to do so.   

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Is anyone saying you shouldn't have to gather materials to craft?

 

The problem is while out gathering (since you dont like looting) you will eventually find an item better than anything you can craft.   So far, from my experience, it doesn't even take that long to do so.   

In my SP game and for my main weapons it would have been 50/50. My q6 stone spear I could not have crafted, but I could have crafted a better hunting rifle than I found yet if I didn't have bought it from the trader (which seemed like a good idea at the time because I didn't have a workbench yet). If I want to substitute my stone spear with an iron spear I might have the parts already to build a q4 or q5 which definitely is better than anything I find at the moment.

 

This is a balancing thing, in A17 you did not need to craft your equipment, in A18 it was somewhat better, especially in MP. In A19 crafting got a further boost with the stone age since you don't immediately find excellent guns in your chests on day 1. Instead I often find gun parts in weapon safes right now.

 

If your comment was about q6 items not being craftable: You will find items that are better than your q6 stone thingy. And tier3 q6 items are an endgame carrot that is probably still found too early in the game right now. Just think how much material crafting them would need so that you can't craft them before you are say lvl 80 or 100. The fact is, in this game you can hoard crafting materials in absurd masses if you want. You would need a new material Unobtainium and if you can find Unobtainium at the same speed you can find tier3 q6 items you need at least as many for the recipe as there are tier3 q6 items halfed.

 

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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7 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Is anyone saying you shouldn't have to gather materials to craft?

 

The problem is while out gathering (since you dont like looting) you will eventually find an item better than anything you can craft.   So far, from my experience, it doesn't even take that long to do so.   

You literally repeated what I posted...

 

So....agreed. Great insight. 

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20 minutes ago, Roland said:

You literally repeated what I posted...

 

So....agreed. Great insight. 

I'm sorry.... I just thought you mention the needing to gather as a counter point to something someone else said.   So yeah, we need to gather.... back at ya with the great insight.

 

You said the item you find "could be better".   I'm just pointing out that eventually it "will be better".   So not exactly the same thing you said.... but sure, subtle differences are easy to miss.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Okay, skimmed most of the thread so somebody else has probably suggested this, but....

 

Right now, crafting and looting do not work well together because they produce the same items. What really needs to happen is that COMPLETE items become very rare loot and parts for crafting becomes more common. Add this to perk system and reading additional schematics on an item increase the quality level of a crafted item. The perk tiers work the same as now, for each level bought you craft the next tier up on the item. Schematics would be similar in that each one you read increases your tier level and the benefits stack so that if you bought two levels and found a schematic, you can make a tier 3 item. However, the stacking stops at tier 5. But tier 6 items if they can be crafted would require extra knowledge, maybe by buying up to tier 4 and also reading 4 schematics to unlock.

 

This then leaves you with a reason to loot; getting parts and schematics, and a reason to craft; putting together the parts to make items. The quality of items created depends both on the skill/knowledge you in crafting the item and the number of parts used in the crafting.

 

Add to this a return of item degradation, and I think you have decent system that encourages both looting and crafting to progress in the game.

 

Of course - just realized this would not fit with the all the work the Pimps have done with a leveled loot system if complete items become rare, so it is probably not likely to happen. Maybe they can keep it on the back burner for the next game....

Edited by Jarod_Silverstar
Just had a thought (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, Sydious said:

That's fair.  But explain to me this.  How can you craft a simple level 1 9mm pistol with out looting the parts first?  Where do you get the ammo with out looting? How can you craft a cooking pot without learning to make a forge or looting the schem?  Is everything on an equal basis? 

1. By buying them

2. by finding a usable one

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