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enragedcamel

The lockpick system needs an overhaul

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I think it's pretty ridiculous that I spend several (in-game) hours digging up a treasure chest, then proceed to break FIFTEEN lockpicks on it, and end up having to then smash it open.

 

Please either turn it into a minigame so there's a skill component, or make it so that each container requires a hardcoded X number of lockpicks, with stronger containers requiring a greater number.

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Please no minigame. Minigames suck. They suck hard. Every time. No matter wich game. Haven´t seen an enjoyable non frustrating minigame in over 20 years of gaming.

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Isn't this solved when you get the time charges you can put on a safe? I have looted the schematic but I've never used it.

 

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i thought the charges only did a specific amount of damage top the container.  honestly never used them before.  i just got my lockpick skill up and use like 2-3 picks on a lock.

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2 hours ago, enragedcamel said:

Please either turn it into a minigame so there's a skill component

There is a skill component. Just put points into the perk for it.  Then you'll use fewer picks. 

 

The only issue here is than RNG kicked your @%$*#! a few times.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

There is a skill component. Just put points into the perk for it.  Then you'll use fewer picks. 

 

The only issue here is than RNG kicked your @%$*#! a few times.

Yeah, I found some lockpicks late in 18.4 and used them for fun. One went through a wall safe with zero problems and I thought to myself, "This would be a great early game item". Then I tried a second wall safe and used at least a dozen before I ran out and still had to crack it open. Seems like any points I put into it would be spent better on Miner 69 just to brute force my way in, since that comes with all the added benefits, and I even have a split Strength/Perception build. Maybe if lock picking came with some extra benefit, like finding better loot in safes, then perking into it might be worth while. (Or I just stopped playing with Strength which probably won't happen lol). Was lock picking a skill they lowered the requirements and tiers on in A19?

And minigames are great. Much better than hold E, hold E again, hold E again....

Edited by Lemmers (see edit history)
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51 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

There is a skill component. Just put points into the perk for it.  Then you'll use fewer picks. 

 

The only issue here is than RNG kicked your @%$*#! a few times.

I believe he wasn't talking literally about in-game skills of the player character, but the currently non-existant factor in form of the actual skill of the human player to win at the minigame to get the lock open with a lockpick...

 

The point is that the way it is now doesn't require actual effort from the player to open the lock, it just wastes your lockpicks, very often for no real profit if the loot in the chest sucks and the lockpicking skill just makes the chance of NOT breaking your lockpick a bit more in your favor, but there's no real human factor involved in the process of opening the lock that would at least slightly break the painfully obvious RNG factor and improve immersion.

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I'll agree with OP. Lockpicking, in it's current state, does not reward the player for having lockpicks or investing into the perk at all. If you have at least an iron pick axe and a few points into Miner 69'er then it is far more efficient to just bash it open and the perk points put into STR and Miner 69'er net more of a benefit over the long run as it is more applicable. Also, you don't have to give up an extra inventory slot for carrying lockpicks with you. 

Just do a timed test. Max lock picking vs. max Miner 69'er with a modded steel pickaxe on a hardened chest. See which one opens it fastest more consistently. 

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Posted (edited)

Buy the candies that give you 100% chance to unlock safes and chests. Its only 100 Dukes 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited by Kyonshi (see edit history)

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At 1st I kinda thought the lock picking was lame. I too was wanting some kind of a mini game such as in fallout or oblivion/Skyrim but now I totally see the purpose. 

As stated in previous posts, put points in lock picking or beef up strength/miner 69er & bash the fu**er open. 

The lock picks are merely for early game, a "chance" to get in the safe with out any effort. I do think they are a tad overpriced in the trader but hey, still a cool thing. Plus they aren't terrible to make in the workbench, a piece of forged iron & a mechanical part I believe.

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Posted (edited)

Once the game stage went up enough to make looting locked containers worth while I just put a point in lock picks and usually start the day with a stack of 50. They are cheap to make and I salvage pretty much everything I run across, especially cars, so the price is well worth it since I have tons of the supplies needed in stock. I've had unlucky rng, but usually it only takes a few to open something and even if I break some it's quicker that beating through a gun safe.

Edited by Fenris (see edit history)

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I also had it many times that i wasted 15-20 lockpicks for one safe or chest and then switched to the pickaxe. The perk increases chances of course and this is RNG, but obviously it happens a lot the you break really many lockpicks in a row. RNG is a @%$*#! and of course RNG can turnout such a result. But then maybe it should not be based on pure RNG only. Maybe increase the probability with every try. Don't know the current numbers, but e.g. without perk start with 20% on first try and increase by 5% with every further try. With the 19th lockpick than you have 100% chance and will open the chest for sure. It will even most likely finish with the 8th pick, as you have reached already 60%.

With perk lvl 1 start at 30% and increase by 7%, lvl 2 start at 40% increase by 10%....

But with every try only 20% chance you statistically get it open every 5th try, but statistics is also a @%$*#!, you can also have 30 fails in a row.

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Another idea with similar result: Give locked chests a value of e.g. 100 lockpoints. Without perk roll a number from 1-100 per try, subtract the result from the lockpoints. If the lockpoints reach zero, the chest becomes unlocked. So without perk in theory you could still have 99 fails in a row, but the results will add up and each try has a higher chance to succeed.

Perk lvl1 then rolls from 25-100, perk lvl2 rolls from 50-100

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23 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

There is a skill component. Just put points into the perk for it.  Then you'll use fewer picks. 

 

The only issue here is than RNG kicked your @%$*#! a few times.

Wow, how did you become a moderator with awful, bad faith responses like this?

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On 7/5/2020 at 3:35 PM, pApA^LeGBa said:

Please no minigame. Minigames suck. They suck hard. Every time. No matter wich game. Haven´t seen an enjoyable non frustrating minigame in over 20 years of gaming.

I thought the hacking mini-games in Deus-Ex and Watch Dogs weren't so bad...

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Please, please please no more lock picking mini games.  First thing I remove from a fallout game these days - they are just to darn repetitive.

 

The problem is the perk is not worth the points to invest in it.  Like others have said, miner 69 comes with other massive benefits.  Lockpicking does not.  I think the frustration could be removed by simply not forcing you to start over at the 4 second mark every time - just resume from the last point like you do when it is higher.  Eventually you are going to get in.

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The place lockpicking "fits" is in a stealth build where you want to get the loot without ever interacting a zombie, or at least before interacting with the zombies. I dunno if anybody actually plays that way though, even if otherwise they play stealth. You sneak through the POI, silently re-murder the undead monsters, then go back and open the safes at your leisure. And lockpicks are kind of a novelty at that point. Once you get a modded T5/T6 steel pick it's just wasted inventory space, IMO.

 

The one place where maybe they have some utility even in the above scenario is for the locked-but-partially-broken doors. Since those are part of the One True Path through the POI, it might be worth it trying to pick them instead of bashing them open, so as not to wake the former residents.

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23 hours ago, Boidster said:

The one place where maybe they have some utility even in the above scenario is for the locked-but-partially-broken doors. Since those are part of the One True Path through the POI, it might be worth it trying to pick them instead of bashing them open, so as not to wake the former residents.

Don't think you can lockpick doors (which is odd).

 

Basically lockpicking has a couple of issues:

1. It has no clear advantage over simply bashing a container open

2. Miner 69'er makes opening safes quicker and generally makes mining quicker too, it has multiple uses so the points are better invested

3. The perk itself doesn't have enough of a bonus

 

 

Possible solution:

Make the perk and lockpicking have more bonuses and applications. Give lockpicks a passive bonus and have three tiers of lockpick.

 

Lockpick Tiers & Passive:

Simple Lockpicks: +20% Unlock Loot

Iron Lockpicks: +40% Unlock Loot

Steel Lockpicks: +60% Unlock Loot

 

Unlock Loot = Bonus loot obtained when unlocking a container rather than bashing it open.

 

Perk:

Level 1: Pick locks 33% faster. You can unlock wooden doors. +20% Unlock Loot. 25% chance lockpick doesn't break on fail.

Level 2: Pick locks 66% faster. You can unlock metal doors. +40% Unlock Loot. 50% chance lockpick doesn't break on fail.

Level 3: Pick locks twice as fast. You can unlock all doors. +60% Unlock Loot. 75% chance lockpick doesn't break on fail.

 

The Benefits

1. Now, even without skill, lockpicks are worth trying as they have a chance of better loot.

 

2. The perk offers the unique content of getting through doors more easily and stealthily.

3. The perk adds a distinctive loot bonus in itself, compounding the lockpick bonus to eventually more than double container loot.

4. A chance for a lockpick not to break is better than a chance of not failing. No one can see when they succeed a check, but it's easy to notice when a fail doesn't consume a lockpick. This is better feedback for the player.

 

This basically means that bashing into a container is better as an option when you simply have no lockpicks left. Timed Charges should probably have their own Unlock Loot bonus. The candy could potentially double the Unlock Bonus for a few minutes.

 

This essentially makes lockpicking a good early game loot bonus, amplified by the perk. With the long term benefit of door unlocks.

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Prior to my first response to this I have put one point in to lockpick and made a bunch of lockpicks. most of the time it is less than 4 and I very frequently open it with the first lock pick. I think that's a point well spent

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15 hours ago, Nexian said:

Don't think you can lockpick doors (which is odd).

You're right. It's something that I thought they were adding? Not in A19 (yet) though, so...

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Lockpicking doors has generally said to not be an upcoming thing by the devs. It would totally break the intended path thru dungeons.

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30 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

Lockpicking doors has generally said to not be an upcoming thing by the devs. It would totally break the intended path thru dungeons.

I can see that reasoning. But I also think some doors could be picked, while other doors are "barred form the other side" so the intended path stays intact unless you want to beat down the door. Not really a high priority in my opinion though.

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While I dislike minigames almost as much as the next guy, I'd still take any minigame over the current implementation; stare at a container in a UI-freeze for 15-20 seconds, and then break a random amount of lockpicks at the end. One by one. It manages to combine the worst of both worlds, wastes as much time as a minigame would and doesn't even give me anything to actively do.

 

Sure, it's not a big deal, at least as one can swap to the steel picks for now; but I'd love an update to the mechanic if the "you can only get the loot in this container via lockpicking"-part is ever implemented.

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4 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

Lockpicking doors has generally said to not be an upcoming thing by the devs. It would totally break the intended path thru dungeons.

.....

As the doors, walls and everything else in the game is destructible it certainly does not break anything.  It would just allow the silent player to do this as well to a limited extent.

 

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On 7/5/2020 at 5:35 PM, pApA^LeGBa said:

Please no minigame. Minigames suck. They suck hard. Every time. No matter wich game. Haven´t seen an enjoyable non frustrating minigame in over 20 years of gaming.

One in fallout 4/76 is not too bad. move pin to spot, hold A to turn and unlocked, can unlock highest tier stuff in 1 pick if your lucky. At most I break 2-3 and its MUCH faster than it is in 7dtd.

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

While I dislike minigames almost as much as the next guy, I'd still take any minigame over the current implementation; stare at a container in a UI-freeze for 15-20 seconds, and then break a random amount of lockpicks at the end. One by one. It manages to combine the worst of both worlds, wastes as much time as a minigame would and doesn't even give me anything to actively do.

 

Sure, it's not a big deal, at least as one can swap to the steel picks for now; but I'd love an update to the mechanic if the "you can only get the loot in this container via lockpicking"-part is ever implemented.

Steel picks? You mean pickaxe? or is there a new type of lockpick that doesn't break?

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