Possible Bug - Phantom Blocks - I Believe It's a Long-Known Problem

[Falcon197]

16 hours ago, Jugginator said:

Yes please

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EFWSrE3YZDnFgZF7iZHHrlkmYQFIrbrU/view?usp=sharing - 4km x 4km NitroGen map with the following parameters:

 

 

Replication steps:

 

1) Start a new game, with any settings

2) Spawn into the world and make your way to the city (roughly in map center)

3) Either spend an extended period in a POI on the edge of the city (+1 hour) then return to the middle of the city (high rise or trader area), OR -

4) If phantom blocks aren't appearing, return to POI on edge of city, leave the game and reload / reconnect and then travel to the middle of the city

 

Some Notes:

- As stated before, phantom blocks tend to appear more frequently on older POIs from pre-A18 builds of the game, but I've also seen them on newer prefabs

- I have seen this bug in singleplayer, a private friends-only game, and in a dedi server all with the same map

- The bug persists in vanilla and modded 7DTD

- When the phantom blocks appear, if you quit and reload (sometimes restart the whole game), they vanish and will start appearing in chunks other than the one your PC loads into on entry

Edited April 21, 2021 by Falcon197 (see edit history)

[Boidster]

38 minutes ago, Falcon197 said:

As stated before, phantom blocks tend to appear more frequently on older POIs from pre-A18 builds of the game

 

Are you still running that map and can you replicate the problem at will? If so, can you grab a couple of POI names using F3? I'm keen to understand how pre-A18 POIs are showing up on the map if you haven't installed them in /prefabs. Knowing the names of the borked POIs would help suss that out.

 

Or do you mean A19 POIs which have carried through the alphas from before A18? Maybe I misunderstand.

[Falcon197]

4 minutes ago, Boidster said:

 

Are you still running that map and can you replicate the problem at will? If so, can you grab a couple of POI names using F3? I'm keen to understand how pre-A18 POIs are showing up on the map if you haven't installed them in /prefabs. Knowing the names of the borked POIs would help suss that out.

 

Or do you mean A19 POIs which have carried through the alphas from before A18? Maybe I misunderstand.

 

Definitely the former.  There's a couple prefabs in particular I recognize from some of the very early builds of the game - one looks like a ruined downtown bank or something.  Others include ruined multi-story buildings.  I'll take some screencaps and try to figure out their names.

[Falcon197]

Here's some screencaps.  I'm still looking into the specific prefab names:

 

 

Notice the phantom blocks present here, but not in the newer POI across the street - 

 

 

See the following screencaps for additional older POIs.  Curiously, the Dishong Tower highrise was fine, while the pharmacy high rise had phantom blocks.  Meanwhile, nearly all the older POIs consistently had phantom blocks.

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Falcon197 (see edit history)

[Boidster]

Excellent! I see what you mean now, sorry for misunderstanding before. These are "old" POIs in the sense that they've been in the game a long time, but they are still valid A19-installed POIs. Perhaps not optimized in some way.

 

You can get the POI name from the F3 display if you are within the bounds of the POI. So just move closer and you'll see the name right next to the Biome entry.

 

Edit: it's interesting that you seem (if I'm interpreting the pictures correctly) to get a couple of different phantom block textures showing up. As far as I can remember, we always see only the black marble texture, except in trash piles and shopping carts. When the bug hits our map, we will see weird checkerboard blocks in the middle of trashpiles and carts. Each face is 2x2 textures, with the black marble and "plywood" dark & light grey cement texture alternating. I think I have a picture of it around here somewhere. BRB

 

Here:

Edited April 21, 2021 by Boidster (see edit history)

[Shefanhow]

Hi i just made this account because i have some important info I didn't see in the thread here, I'm having this issue seemingly EVERYWHERE i look, i play a pure vanilla game as the host of a friends only server that has had only 2 people play the game,  My issues have been seen in effectively every POI in a normal town/city spawn, there are no larger multistory buildings except for one and some destroyed building that was fairly small and had a single roofless room with a gun-safe in it.
These areas i know the descriptions of, that had this issue infesting them, are:
A gass'n'pass gas station, a diner with a large sign on the top of it and two outdoor eating areas, the shotgun messiah Factory, a regular house two feet away from a trader, a high school, a Crack a book building, to be specific the one i saw had a small hold out with a couple of crates on the roof, Notably I've been running into a lot of extra phantoms, not just the marble block seen in doorways and other areas, or the checkerboard block in the trash, there are also:
Trapdoors that are melded with a wooden plate, the entire Shotgun messiah is encompassed in a one way black glitched zone, meaning only the outside of the blocks making up the poi, the trash and shopping carts are also glitched with this pitch black box. There are tons of examples of this showing up in my world, and its solely vanilla RWG, to be clear they can happen in seemingly any area with multiple POIS but nothing seems to be safe from the glitch in my instance.  I will get screenshots soon. also I'm not running NVIDIA in the slightest, i swapped out for a decently powerful Radeon Graphics Card. Which can run ultra without issue seemingly,  Save of course, this error, which happened on Default graphics settings as well.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Shefanhow (see edit history)

[SylenThunder]

10 minutes ago, Shefanhow said:

Hi i just made this account because i have some important info I didn't see in the thread here, I'm having this issue seemingly EVERYWHERE i look, i play a pure vanilla game as the host of a friends only server that has had only 2 people play the game,  My issues have been seen in effectively every POI in a normal town/city spawn, there are no larger multistory buildings except for one and some destroyed building that was fairly small and had a single roofless room with a gun-safe in it.
These areas i know the descriptions of, that had this issue infesting them, are:
A gass'n'pass gas station, a diner with a large sign on the top of it and two outdoor eating areas, the shotgun messiah Factory, a regular house two feet away from a trader, a high school, a Crack a book building, to be specific the one i saw had a small hold out with a couple of crates on the roof, Notably I've been running into a lot of extra phantoms, not just the marble block seen in doorways and other areas, or the checkerboard block in the trash, there are also:
Trapdoors that are melded with a wooden plate, the entire Shotgun messiah is encompassed in a one way black glitched zone, meaning only the outside of the blocks making up the poi, the trash and shopping carts are also glitched with this pitch black box. There are tons of examples of this showing up in my world, and its solely vanilla RWG, to be clear they can happen in seemingly any area with multiple POIS but nothing seems to be safe from the glitch in my instance.  I will get screenshots soon. also I'm not running NVIDIA in the slightest, i swapped out for a decently powerful Radeon Graphics Card. Which can run ultra without issue seemingly,  Save of course, this error, which happened on Default graphics settings as well.

Logs?

Hardware information?

Any useful information?

 

Not to offend, but this doesn't add any really useful information.  We have way too many posts like this already. We need hard data.

[Shefanhow]

6 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

Logs?

Hardware information?

Any useful information?

 

Not to offend, but this doesn't add any really useful information.  We have way too many posts like this already. We need hard data.

I'm not exactly good with figuring out hardware info, but i believe i can get the logs if i know where to find it, the main reason i wanted to post was because i was noticing several things that didn't match other people's posts, such as the one way black texture issue with the Shotgun Messiah factory and most people here having the issues with mostly GeForce graphics cards, I'm not exactly super technical i just wanted to provide what id seen.
And don't worry I didn't take offense, i mostly just have no real technical info atm. I can prolly try to use that F3 thing someone mentioned to find more poi names and screenshots with it but that will take a bit.

Edited April 25, 2021 by Shefanhow (see edit history)

[SylenThunder]

Just now, Shefanhow said:

I'm not exactly good with figuring out hardware info, but i believe i can get the logs if i know where to find it, the main reason i wanted to post was because i was noticing several things that didn't match other people's posts, such as the one way black texture issue with the Shotgun Messiah factory and most people here having the issues with mostly GeForce graphics cards, I'm not exactly super technical i just wanted to provide what id seen.
And don't worry I didn't take offense, i mostly just have no real technical info atm.

Instructions are Pinned right here in this section. Please take the time to get the details.

[Shefanhow]

Ok so i have some Screenshots of the buildings however the glitch has vanished from all of them thanks to a game quit in order to change the settings to allow for creative tools so i could use fly mode without danger. but all of the locations are screen capped, i cant quite figure out how to put them into the post though.

 

[Shefanhow]

25 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

Instructions are Pinned right here in this section. Please take the time to get the details.

Here are the Listed POI Names for each one i noticed the glitches affecting. i hope this helps even a little
POI: house_old_pyramid_02.545
POI: house_old_modular_07.537

The first two are right next to a trader settlement and only exhibited the usual issues, marble blocks in doors and windows and glitched trash piles.

POI: buisiness_old_05.321
POI: buisiness _old_06.318 (this one looked like a school, it had a sign naming it Special Tottz)
POI: fastfood_03.307 (Huge sign named Bezerker Bills if that helps)
POI: gas_station2.305 
POI: store_book_01.317 (Crack a Book)
POI: factory_lg_02.334 (This is the only POI that had the black zone glitch)

POI: store_hardware_02.291 (I wasnt here long but i noticed the same issues as most of the other stores)

Also i should add, something i noticed is that the outer block faces of most of these POI's were flickering as if there were phantom blocks trying to render over them or something.

The gas station, the fast food place, and the book store all had phantom blocks everywhere all being the dark marble block, all three also had the trapdoor phantom block as well. if i can get anymore stuff to help i will but hopefully this gives some more technical insight.
 

Edited April 25, 2021 by Shefanhow (see edit history)

[Beelzybub]

On 4/21/2021 at 8:12 AM, Falcon197 said:

Replication steps:

 

1) Start a new game, with any settings

2) Spawn into the world and make your way to the city (roughly in map center)

3) Either spend an extended period in a POI on the edge of the city (+1 hour) then return to the middle of the city (high rise or trader area), OR -

4) If phantom blocks aren't appearing, return to POI on edge of city, leave the game and reload / reconnect and then travel to the middle of the city

 

I tried these steps using the Warhawk 4k map and couldn't reproduce.

 

Ultra settings

GTX 1060 6Bb Driver version 461.09

I5 3550, 20 Gb ram, sata ssd.

 

After step 3 when the phantoms were not appearing, I did step 4 five times and still didn't repro.

I also tried flying around the map in god mode for about 8 in game hours which also did nothing.

[Jugginator]

Okay so recently I've reproduced stuck imposter blocks but it was during an insane amount of exit/enter/swap POI/ go into playtesting that went on for like 2 or 3 hours, not something in normal gameplay. Still a repro but I'd like to narrow it down a bit in the "normal" use cases. One thing I'd like from you all whom are able to reproduce it is:

 

Are you using a HDD, SSD, or an M.2 drive?

 

Very specifically, how much ram do you have (simply "8GB DDR4" hasn't provided results in this case), how many sticks, and the specific model of it with the main timings? https://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/cpu-z_1.96-en.exe

that program will help, if you click the memory tab and take a screenshot of what's in there that would be awesome. Reason why I'm asking mainly is I can tailor my system (maybe, if you have DDR4 ram I can).

[Falcon197]

9 hours ago, Jugginator said:

Are you using a HDD, SSD, or an M.2 drive?

 

Very specifically, how much ram do you have (simply "8GB DDR4" hasn't provided results in this case), how many sticks, and the specific model of it with the main timings? https://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/cpu-z_1.96-en.exe

that program will help, if you click the memory tab and take a screenshot of what's in there that would be awesome. Reason why I'm asking mainly is I can tailor my system (maybe, if you have DDR4 ram I can).

 

 

My 7DTD is installed on a 1TB Western Digital HDD.  RAM is Corsair Vengeance, 4 x 8GB DDR4 - 3200MHz base core clock.

 

EDIT: Also sorry that my repro steps didn't work straight away.  Seems the way the bug manifests can differ for separate people.  But I've had friends playing the Warhawk map with all different specs complain about the same issue.  I'll collect system info from them (9 other people) to give you guys a broader data pool.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Falcon197 (see edit history)

[Jugginator]

1 hour ago, Falcon197 said:

 

EDIT: Also sorry that my repro steps didn't work straight away.  Seems the way the bug manifests can differ for separate people.  But I've had friends playing the Warhawk map with all different specs complain about the same issue.  I'll collect system info from them (9 other people) to give you guys a broader data pool.

Oh don't be sorry thanks for the information. Yeah you are right about the bug being weird for different people. I think that's a first I've seen, someone having fast/strong ram and 32 gb at that, we're slightly different but mostly equal in that department. But I do have a HDD I can use to test, normally I'm on my m.2 or a regular SSD.

 

One common thing is the HDD, see if your friends are using HDD and if they are using an SSD/M.2 instead, please gather ram info from them. Unless you/they don't mind giving ram info, can't hurt! The last time I tested for it in a real game (not just testing random crap like in the repro i mentioned) I had 2 - 3 copies of the game running while running a membench in the background (among other stuff) to keep my ram as full as possible but didn't get any to stick. Pretty much had 100% cpu and ram utilization. But I'll make a new test using a HDD sometime soon.

 

[Falcon197]

45 minutes ago, Jugginator said:

Oh don't be sorry thanks for the information. Yeah you are right about the bug being weird for different people. I think that's a first I've seen, someone having fast/strong ram and 32 gb at that, we're slightly different but mostly equal in that department. But I do have a HDD I can use to test, normally I'm on my m.2 or a regular SSD.

 

One common thing is the HDD, see if your friends are using HDD and if they are using an SSD/M.2 instead, please gather ram info from them. Unless you/they don't mind giving ram info, can't hurt! The last time I tested for it in a real game (not just testing random crap like in the repro i mentioned) I had 2 - 3 copies of the game running while running a membench in the background (among other stuff) to keep my ram as full as possible but didn't get any to stick. Pretty much had 100% cpu and ram utilization. But I'll make a new test using a HDD sometime soon.

 

 

2 interesting things to report.

 

First, out of 12 people who play on the Warhawk map, so far 5 have reported encountering the bug and the specs trend is predominantly HDD, though there was 1 person rocking an SSD.  RAM specs are all DDR4.  I'm still collecting specifics on brand, sticks, clocks, etc.  Will report those findings in full when everyone sends it in.

 

Second, I did an experiment and reinstalled my game to my M.2 (was originally on my HDD) and loaded into the map to see if the bug persisted and it hasn't.  Imposter marble blocks are visible as part of a POI's lod at long range but now they correctly derender at nearer distances.

 

Thinking that you're onto something with the hardware as a potential root cause, @Jugginator.

 

 

[Jugginator]

Ah beautiful thanks for doing that (not going to lie having the game on an ssd or m.2 is so much better lol). I was going to ask you if you had a faster storage medium to test it on and you went and did it, good thinking! I eagerly await the additional data, maybe this will lead to a solid reproduction

6 minutes ago, Falcon197 said:

Second, I did an experiment and reinstalled my game to my M.2 (was originally on my HDD) and loaded into the map to see if the bug persisted and it hasn't.  Imposter marble blocks are visible as part of a POI's lod at long range but now they correctly derender at nearer distances.

 

[Falcon197]

Time to see how well Excel translates onto the forums.  @Jugginator - here's your data

 

Sample	Experienced Bug?	Storage Type	RAM Amt.	RAM Manuf.	# of Sticks	DDR Series	Speed MHz
1	Yes	HDD	32 GB	Corsair Vengeance	4 x 8GB	DDR4	3200
2	No	SSD	16 GB	G.Skill Trident Z	2 x 8GB	DDR4	3600
3	Yes	SSD	16 GB	SK-Hynix	1 x 16GB	DDR4	1330
4	No	SSD	16 GB	Corsair Vengeance	2 x 8GB	DDR4	1066
5	No	HDD	32 GB	Corsair Vengeance	4 x 8GB	DDR4	3200
6	Yes	HDD	16 GB	?	2 x 8GB	DDR4	1463
7	Yes	HDD	16 GB	Corsair Vengeance	2 x 8GB	DDR4	1066
8	Yes	HDD	16 GB	Hynix	2 x 8GB	DDR4	3600
9	Yes	HDD	16 GB	G.Skill	2 x 8GB	DDR3	1866
10	No	HDD	16 GB	Corsair Vengeance	4 x 4GB	DDR3	1866
11	No	SSD	16 GB	Corsair Vengeance	2 x 8GB	DDR4	2666
12	No	SSD	16 GB	Corsair Vengeance	2 x 8GB	DDR4	?

 

Almost like I do this kinda thing for a living 😜

Edited April 26, 2021 by Falcon197 (see edit history)

[Jugginator]

@Falcon197 Beautiful, thank you so much for that. Yeah it's realllly pointing to HDD. Definitely some food for thought, I'll set up a test build on my HDD soon'

[SylenThunder]

7 hours ago, Falcon197 said:

RAM is Corsair Vengeance, 4 x 8GB DDR4 - 3200MHz base core clock.

Just curious, your CPU-Z shows your RAM is clocked at 2133MHz.

Which is pretty common if you don't set XMP in BIOS, and just leave the motherboard to set default values for everything.

[Falcon197]

9 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Just curious, your CPU-Z shows your RAM is clocked at 2133MHz.

Which is pretty common if you don't set XMP in BIOS, and just leave the motherboard to set default values for everything.

 

Good observation.  I actually had to disable XMP to squeeze out better performance for Skyrim SE.  Apparently running almost 500 mods plus high-end ENBs causes quite the RAM drain 😵

 

Switching XMP off somehow stabilizes my system better for that setup.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Falcon197 (see edit history)

[Kalarro]

I have been playing form a14 to the start of a19 and never had a bug that made me stop playing. I left for a few months after the start of a19, now Im back, and I cant play becaus of this bug. It happens to me in almost every POI

[SylenThunder]

For those of you having issues with the distant POI meshes/ghost blocks, you might want to take a look at 19.5 experimental and see if any of the new optimizations and fixes there resolve your issue.

[gizmomelb]

so anyone who was having the issue, did alpha 19.5 fix it for you?

 

[Gamida]

Never noticed that 19.5 was available until you posted that. How long was it out and was there a post saying it was?