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ElCabong

The eating requirement is breaking emersion

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On 7/2/2020 at 2:45 PM, Liesel Weppen said:

 

The game mechanic fills you more for heavier meals. Depletion has nothing to do with what you eat, depletion depends on what are you doing.

How much a meal fills ist also just a game mechanic that is somehow balanced, mostly around availability of food. So basically you want one steak or boiled meat gives you enough food for an entire day of running, mining, fighting? That is not even realistic. If you are doing heavy activity even 3 steaks a day wouldn't be unrealistic.

And if just a grilled or boiled steak will last for one day, what do you expect from beacon&eggs, meat stew or even hobo stew? Eat one, have enough food for three days?

According to how much meat eggs and other ingredients you loot, on day 5 you have enough food for the next 100 days? And guess what: It doesn't even spoil. How immersion breaking is that? UNPLAYABLE!

One piece of boiled meat is 5 pieces of raw meat or one eighth of a Stag, one 12th of a Bear, do you really believe that a whole Deer is only about 4000 calories? or 6000 calories for a whole Bear? (I have based those calorie assumptions on a  full days work of mining, although no characters can manage a full days mining as they get exhausted after a few swings like an asthmatic pensioner. I agree there is no spoilage which is unrealistic but the constant hunting for mat is a a little unrealistic. A bear would be days and days of food for a single survivalist yet we get at best a day and a half. Oh and who runs? I had my minibike on night of day 2, don't get me started on the calorie consumption for riding around in vehicles please!

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2 hours ago, Galifrey1965 said:

A bear would be days and days of food for a single survivalist yet we get at best a day and a half.

You are not anywhere close to a "survivalist", pal. You are a barely-functional former accountant with a pointy leg bone to carve with. You are lucky you can even recognize edible parts from intestines. When you are fully perked into The Huntsman, then you can talk about how much meat you get from a bear.

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Too much driving...lol. ;)

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17 minutes ago, Boidster said:

You are not anywhere close to a "survivalist", pal. You are a barely-functional former accountant with a pointy leg bone to carve with. You are lucky you can even recognize edible parts from intestines. When you are fully perked into The Huntsman, then you can talk about how much meat you get from a bear.

Former Butcher actually 😛

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What if there was a sort of return to the wellness system, except canned goods were food that kept you full but didn't advance or even penalized wellness, while fresh foods built you up towards increasing stamina caps?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Galifrey1965 said:

Former Butcher actually 😛

Ha, really? Well unfortunately that means that your opinions of how much meat can be carved from a typical deer carcass:

  • are absolutely accurate and really on the level of expert testimony
  • must be ignored when discussing how much meat the poor former accountants can get with their sharpened femurs. 🙂

You literally have too much knowledge to be helpful. I happen to be a former blacksmith* and I have a deep understanding of just how much better a person gets at crafting axes once they have done it a few hundred times, but does anybody want to listen to my expert opinion on that? Noooooo....

 

*I am not

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Galifrey1965 said:

do you really believe that a whole Deer is only about 4000 calories? or 6000 calories for a whole Bear?

 

  

On 7/2/2020 at 3:45 PM, Liesel Weppen said:

This is not a reallife simulator. That's a game mechanic.

 

[...]

 

Sorry for rant, but those "tHiS iS nOt ReAlIsTiC" grumblers not thinking one second about game mechanics/how the game would work with such changes are really anoying.

 

If you see it realistic, one deer will feed one single person for weeks, if not months. Would be a really boring game.

Edited by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

This is not a reallife simulator. That's a game mechanic.

 

[...]

 

Sorry for rant, but those "tHiS iS nOt ReAlIsTiC" grumblers not thinking one second about game mechanics/how the game would work with such changes are really anoying.

  

 

Thanks captain obvious, I thought the zombies were based on real life... 

 

But if you want to miss the point entirely that the game mechanic is dumb so be it.

Edited by Galifrey1965 (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Galifrey1965 said:

But if you want to miss the point entirely that the game mechanic is dumb so be it.

It's not dumb. It's unrealistic to make the game interesting. Hunting one deer and having food for 6 weeks (42 days) JUST FROM THIS DEER would be a pretty boring game. Still not mentioned that food is not even really an issue, maybe except the first few days. If ever i have a lack of eggs, or corn and potatoes until i built a farm with 20 plots and skilled lotl. I have meat stacks in masses and you want even more meat?

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On 7/2/2020 at 11:28 AM, Dracula said:

It wouldn't be as big of a deal if it weren't for the difficulty of crafting farm plots.  I'd like to see a return of the A16 system of fertilizer, but with the 17 system of regenerating crops and fertilizer being required to get levels of food that are sustainable for small farms.

Yeah, would be nice if I could craft basic Farm Plots with small amounts of rotten flesh even if it grows very slowly or has a 5% chance for the seed to die when harvesting, then upgrade the plots on the ground later with fertilizer (recipe unlocked with perk or schematic) to make it a Fertilized Farm Plot that grows faster (normal rate) with twice the yield. The perk tree could include cheaper plot, fertilizer, and seed recipes, with double yield on normal plot harvest and triple on fertilized ones to still make it worthwhile.

 

I seem to have tons of seeds from Day 1 and nowhere to put them unless I obsessively harvest every bird, dog, and gore block. I'd rather have a lot of crappy plots making crappy plants than one good plot producing the same amount because at least it feels like some kind of constant progression. It's like building a base out of flagstone and upgrading it later, compared to waiting the entire game for cement blocks before you can actually build anything. It's kind of frustrating right now.


Farming also seems like the one area you need a person to heavily perk towards to sustain a group right now, whereas an equally important perk tree like Grease Monkey has three alternate ways to get vehicles that bypass it with extra time and work involved (looting schematics, looting parts, buying parts/entire vehicles). Making fertilizer a thing again means non-farming players could still farm the hard way and get as excited about the trader selling fertilizer as they are the trader selling motorcycle handle bars.

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1 hour ago, Liesel Weppen said:

It's not dumb. It's unrealistic to make the game interesting. Hunting one deer and having food for 6 weeks (42 days) JUST FROM THIS DEER would be a pretty boring game. Still not mentioned that food is not even really an issue, maybe except the first few days. If ever i have a lack of eggs, or corn and potatoes until i built a farm with 20 plots and skilled lotl. I have meat stacks in masses and you want even more meat?

I didn't say I wanted more meat, I just don't think that you should burn through a whole deer in one day, I have plenty of food because I know what I am doing, I also have a lot of farm plots. If they want to make it harder, then make it less easy to catch/kill deer, not make you burn it faster. The current burn rate of food is nuts, you just spend all the time eating!

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1 minute ago, Galifrey1965 said:

If they want to make it harder, then make it less easy to catch/kill deer

They don't want to make it harder. They do the opposite, since several Alphas.

And if you personally want it to be harder, then say you want it to be harder, not "that not realistic".

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hmm.., some solid points you make there @Lemmers , and I like the idea-comparison to upgrading building blocks, it would fit in nicely.

 

Couple points I think are worth mentioning about the prior no-farm-plots system.

Required a Hoe. Some might consider not having hoes in the game a loss.. err.. this isn't coming out right... <stepping quietly away...>

 

anyway, one big advantage of the farm-plot blocks, are they're blocks. So they have clean edges, can readily be used for roof gardens and the ceiling below is nice and smooth. And as I recall there have been a fair number of grumbles about the transitions between block edges and ground blocks.

 

That said, there does seem like there's room to expand the farming mechanic as you mention. As a SP only player I'd personally like to see something along the lines you suggest. Just mulling on it for a minute I can imagine it being balanced so that for SP there's the hard way, no/little point cost, while for MP where there's the ability for players to be more specialized, the farmer/hunter/cook would want/need to perk into the more productive farm skill; like I'm guessing the perks were designed for?

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

They don't want to make it harder. They do the opposite, since several Alphas.

And if you personally want it to be harder, then say you want it to be harder, not "that not realistic".

Are you choosing to be obtuse or just trolling? Either way I have said my piece and clearly it is getting lost in translation....

Edited by Galifrey1965 (see edit history)

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This is my first time posting. I have been playing since A17. 

 

I am now on the unstable build, and I play with my husband and friends. We have noticed that the hunger and stamina loss has been greatly increased. 

My husband has had to change his build to include hunting as he usually is the main miner/crafter and occasional looter. We choose roles to specialize in as we play. I am a looter/cook/farmer, and I am finding it increasingly hard to keep up with the food demands when there are more than two people playing on the server.

The number of canned food has been nerfed.

With one point in "Luck Looter" I can find up to a dozen eggs while searching for a base,  but we almost starved by day 2. 

We have noticed the air drops have less food and the traders offer less "Buried Supplies" quests. 

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

I fully understand that the devs wish to make it challenging but spending all the time foraging/hunting for food means less time for base prep, which spells disaster for horde nights.

I have eaten a good breakfast (eggs, home fries, bacon, and toast) at 8 in the morning IRL and done yard work until noon-1 PM before needing to stop for lunch. So, there is no sense in you being reduced to starving when chopping down a couple of trees, scrapping three blocks of a roof, or even putting up railing for fortifications.

 

I feel the stamina/hunger mechanics have been overtuned and need to be scaled back a bit. 

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Posted (edited)

I know how you feel. The food does need to be worked on. For instance things like baked potatoes and corn bread should give you more food value than they do. I haven't had a problem with food after day 2. One of the first four points I get after doing the initial quest always goes into the recipe thing under strength, I forget what it's called now. Master Chef? 

 

That lets you make bacon and eggs and then it's just a matter of finding a lot of eggs and shooting every critter you find. Bacon eggs are about the only thing you can make that work, it gives 36 hunger points. Which is why other things need to give more food value so that you don't have to rely on one thing.

Edited by ElCabong (see edit history)
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I play single player and am finding food tough as well. I don't have a garden yet but seem to loot immense amounts of drinks but no food. Even large food piles only have drinks

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13 minutes ago, ElCabong said:

I know how you feel. The food does need to be worked on. For instance things like baked potatoes and corn bread should give you more food value than they do. I haven't had a problem with food after day 2. One of the first four points I get after doing the initial quest always goes into the recipe thing under strength, I forget what it's called now. Master Chef? 

 

That lets you make bacon and eggs and then it's just a matter of finding a lot of eggs and shooting every critter you find. Bacon eggs are about the only thing you can make that work, it gives 36 hunger points. Which is why other things need to give more food value so that you don't have to rely on one thing.

IKR.......and dont get me started on the near impossible task of mining and gathering basic rescourses to start a base or add simple defenses to a POI without needing a weeks worth of supplies ....really the equivelent of food for 2 people  for a week used up just making blunderbuss ammo for 2 people....150 shots each....not good at all.

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Posted (edited)

I've found that to maintain hunger there are two limiting items: eggs and potatoes.

 

You MUST put one point into Master chef at the start cause bacon and eggs is the only reasonable way to survive.

 

You then either need to continue with another 1-2 points in Master chef or hope to get food schematics in loot.

 

It seems though that a major majority of the non-canned food recipes need potatoes, which are hard to come by.  Meat is not difficult to get, corn is super easy, mushrooms maybe a little difficult.....but potatoes are in everything.

 

They maybe need to reevaluate the bottleneck ingredients in the high hunger recipes and maybe consider making some intermediate food items, cause right now there are only low tier items (canned food, single ingredient cooked items) and high tier items (meals with 3-4 ingredients).

Edited by guardianangelmp (see edit history)
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In my opinion it is very good balanced. you just need to skill the "wright" perks like stomach and so on ;) I hope there will be no change in it.

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Food is definitely a challenge in the beginning. We're playing with 4 people on the server and just finished our first horde night. I am the group's primary looter and currently, my time is very much focused on finding food/doing buried supplies quests/buying food from the trader. So far it's manageable. 

 

One of the biggest things that has helped is that I don't worry about going through the whole POI unless it's relatively small. Hit the kitchens, small grocery stores, and farms (these can be a bit hit or miss food wise if the the pigs don't spawn).  Another option is to look for easier resources.  The day 7 horde can be handled with arrows and spikes. Look for wood piles outside of POIs that are pretty easy to gather to help manage stamina drain.  Same for the pallets of cobblestone.  These supplies are limited, but once farms are producing and some perks taken, the pressure on food does start to ease up, and finding those won't be as important.

Don't rush to iron tools, they're a huge stamina drain.

Red Tea is your best friend.

Walk when you can.
 

I think we're all about to dump one point into Iron Gut just to see if that helps noticeably too.

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Doing level one buried quests is a very good way to get recipes. Most of what I have found from them are things I already have from MasterChef level one. You get seed recipes and those are vital to start your farm. Just picked up the pumpkin bread recipe from a level one buried quest and I have a pumpkin growing on the roof.

Just now, Adam the Waster said:

i think it would be cool if we could get egg from vultures. with a knife but Gutting them

 

maybe?

That is a good idea. If we could somehow trap chickens and keep egg coops with our farm. Or perhaps hatch an egg that we find. something to keep a steady supply of eggs rather than having to rely on spending half an hour running around finding bird's nest. I go to the burnt biome and hunt for nests there and really haven't spent a whole lot of time before I have plenty of eggs. Having a chicken coop would be a lot of fun I think

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On 7/2/2020 at 9:30 AM, Boidster said:

It would be useful to do a side-by-side comparison of exactly the same activities. Maybe there is a bug. Note that although there isn't any "overeating" in A19 (your Food value can't be 120 out of 100), they did say that the first 20 points of excess food would be consumed more slowly. I guess that means that if you overeat, it will drain from 100 to 80 more slowly than if you just ate enough to get to exactly 100 food? Uncertain.

 

Food drain is a direct analogue for stamina recovery, and many people think that stamina drain is a bit too steep. I'm not having to constantly eat (certainly not after mining for 2 minutes, if I started full!), but I do try to walk more than I run for now, and I don't hold the ADS with the bow for a long time waiting for a zombie to get closer. I expect someone at TFP reads that and nods his/her head, as it was the intent to make us think more about how we consume stamina.

wife put up 18 wood bars and went from full to 30%......mining is totalally a pain in the @%$*#!.....yes the warning is annoying at times however and yes it is not immediately deaddly  but the simple fact that you have stop everything you are doing  because your stamina delpetes after breaking 3 blocks thts a bit much...seriously it drops 3x faster than water......kinda busted

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I usually start out thus:

1 pt lucky looter

1 pt Master Chef

1 Point Living off the Land

1 pt in either spears or Sexy Rex. 

I can't hit the broad side of a barn with the primitive bow. This has reduced me to forage for veggies and canned stuff as I can't hit game. I am practicing more with the spear to see if I can hunt with it. 

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