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The eating requirement is breaking emersion

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I just ate 3 grilled meats and a boiled meat. My food was in the 80's. I started mining and 3 minutes later I was hungry.

 

This is ridiculous.

 

I had a splinted broken leg, that may be causing the hunger clock to tick faster.

 

I am on board with  making things edgier.

 

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Posted (edited)

I kinda partially agree with this.

 

While this doesnt break immersion to me, it needs to be recalibrated i think. There's a level your food bar reaches and you automatically get hungry. Let's say you were at 40% and the hungriness kicked in at 50%. You eat Grilled Meat, which essentially is a steak. It boosts you of 10-15 points i believe? So you reach 50% once again. And then you become hungry again. But in reality, a piece of steak usually fills you for a bit longer, no?

 

Food should have a satiety level in accordance to the type of food it is. Steak and fries should not only fill the bar higher than a can of tuna but also make your bar deplete slower, due to the fact that its a heavier meal.

 

I can also understand that performing physically demanding activities, like mining, asks for more energy consumption from the body, therefore eating more often is needed. But some situations should be taken into logical consideration. I remember one night, i ate like 4-5 cans of food i found, with some of them being Rations, while slowly sneaking in a house, looting it. Then 2 minutes later,  the game tells me i was still hungry and i wasnt at rock-bottom of my food bar prior to this. I was like dude, you just ate 5 f***ing cans! Im not running, axing down doors, or fighting 3 Zeds at once with a spear : im taking them down with a bow & arrows while they're sleeping... And im told im starving. Wth? 🤨

Edited by Kyonshi (see edit history)
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45 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

While this doesnt break immersion to me, it needs to be recalibrated i think. There's a level your food bar reaches and you automatically get hungry. Let's say you were at 40% and the hungriness kicked in at 50%. You eat Grilled Meat, which essentially is a steak. It boosts you of 10-15 points i believe? So you reach 50% once again. And then you become hungry again. But in reality, a piece of steak usually fills you for a bit longer, no?

This is not a reallife simulator. That's a game mechanic.

You get the "you are hungry" notification if you are down to 50%. I usually eat 2-3 times a day, so every ~5 hours (minus sleeping time). Often I become hungry even earlier, but still have to wait until i actually eat something. That doesn't mean i'll starve if i exceed those 5 hours by just one hour. I can stay hungry for a very very long time and still not die. So basically for those "it's not realistic-mimimi"-grumblers: The "you are hungry"-notification should kick in at 80% already! Being not at all hungry means, keeping it up to 100% not just above 50%.

 

Also to OP: I don't know what you are doing. If i'm fully eaten, it almost lasts a full day until i'm down to 50%. Yes, then the icon is showing, but you are still at FIFTY PERCENT! Even if i'm running/mining/fighting all day, it lasts a day. And yes, being hungry is not deadly immediately but still an anoying feeling... just like a icon showing permanently on your screen.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

Food should have a satiety level in accordance to the type of food it is. Steak and fries should not only fill the bar higher than a can of tuna but also make your bar deplete slower, due to the fact that its a heavier meal.

The game mechanic fills you more for heavier meals. Depletion has nothing to do with what you eat, depletion depends on what are you doing.

How much a meal fills ist also just a game mechanic that is somehow balanced, mostly around availability of food. So basically you want one steak or boiled meat gives you enough food for an entire day of running, mining, fighting? That is not even realistic. If you are doing heavy activity even 3 steaks a day wouldn't be unrealistic.

And if just a grilled or boiled steak will last for one day, what do you expect from beacon&eggs, meat stew or even hobo stew? Eat one, have enough food for three days?

According to how much meat eggs and other ingredients you loot, on day 5 you have enough food for the next 100 days? And guess what: It doesn't even spoil. How immersion breaking is that? UNPLAYABLE!

 

It should be changed, if you're fullness is above 80% for every 1% you get -5% movement, because you are fully eaten. Each 1% below 2% then costs you -2% movement, because you are becoming hungrier and hungrier and more and more exhausted. Then people would massively complain because you need to eat every 5 minutes a little bit, but also keep track not to eat too much. Is that what you call immersive? An eating simulator with zombies around?

 

My father would tell: Boy, you obviously never felt real hunger.

 

Sorry for rant, but those "tHiS iS nOt ReAlIsTiC" grumblers not thinking one second about game mechanics/how the game would work with such changes are really anoying.

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Posted (edited)

It seems to be broken for some people. I don´t get hungry too fast, but a day without eating is downright impossible. My m8 eats, is full, goes mining for 2 mins and is hungry again. You don´t die if you are at 50%, but the max stamina goes down, mining is even more of a pain then. Stamina usage is already harsh when you are not hungry.

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

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29 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I don´t get hungry too fast, but a day without eating is downright impossible. My m8 eats, is full, goes mining for 2 mins and is hungry again.

It would be useful to do a side-by-side comparison of exactly the same activities. Maybe there is a bug. Note that although there isn't any "overeating" in A19 (your Food value can't be 120 out of 100), they did say that the first 20 points of excess food would be consumed more slowly. I guess that means that if you overeat, it will drain from 100 to 80 more slowly than if you just ate enough to get to exactly 100 food? Uncertain.

 

Food drain is a direct analogue for stamina recovery, and many people think that stamina drain is a bit too steep. I'm not having to constantly eat (certainly not after mining for 2 minutes, if I started full!), but I do try to walk more than I run for now, and I don't hold the ADS with the bow for a long time waiting for a zombie to get closer. I expect someone at TFP reads that and nods his/her head, as it was the intent to make us think more about how we consume stamina.

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37 minutes ago, Boidster said:

It would be useful to do a side-by-side comparison of exactly the same activities. Maybe there is a bug. Note that although there isn't any "overeating" in A19 (your Food value can't be 120 out of 100), they did say that the first 20 points of excess food would be consumed more slowly. I guess that means that if you overeat, it will drain from 100 to 80 more slowly than if you just ate enough to get to exactly 100 food? Uncertain.

 

Food drain is a direct analogue for stamina recovery, and many people think that stamina drain is a bit too steep. I'm not having to constantly eat (certainly not after mining for 2 minutes, if I started full!), but I do try to walk more than I run for now, and I don't hold the ADS with the bow for a long time waiting for a zombie to get closer. I expect someone at TFP reads that and nods his/her head, as it was the intent to make us think more about how we consume stamina.

I agree. When I compare with my friends I play co-op with there are strange discrepancies. I seem to have more problems with stamina then they have. There must be something I do, and it could very well be too much targetting with a bow, that uses excessive amounts of stamina/food.

 

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@Liesel Weppen

 

Good lord, calm yourself down.

 

No im not trying to overhaul the whole game into a life simulator. Yes, i know its an unrealistic game: ZOMBIES DONT EXIST. Thanks for the hint, Einstein.

 

Something's really annoying is someone who disagrees with a guy saying something on a video game board and going like "OMFG im gonna tell them so @%$*#!ing much!!!" *pumps shotgun*. Relax your sphincters, pal.

 

Im not trying to tell the Pimps that we should obligatory take a piss at specific moments following the mechanics of a kidney meter or having to cut our fingernails like real life... Im just talking about food consumption within the parameters the game puts us into. You take it like i tried to burn your house down.

 

It just seems disproportionate to me that different activities, or should i say different levels of physical intensity, result into more or less hunger regarding how much "energy" we seems to use.

 

Also, whatever the level of "unrealisticness" a game has, some parameters will inevitably be inspired by some real-life facts. Dont go hysterical yet! Lemme explain. Generally speaking, a normally constitued human being will metabolize a mere can of peas quicker than a whole plate of steak and fries. Thus why i was saying that it should take more time to be hungry again after eating the later, while mining, lets say, than after eating that miserable can of peas. Not only the steak/fries fill us up for more (yes im aware of that), but it should also make the bar deplete slower and not only because we have more points but also because it should create the Red Tea effect, in some sort. That could help while you cant find either the schematics of Red Tea or the beverage itself yet, or Pure Water.

 

That's all i was saying. Im not saying im right and i hold the most supreme Truth. Im just discussing about a video game on a video game board. Sorry to have kept you from sleeping at night with my outrageous comment. If it persists though, you should consult. Good day.

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I got my food above 100, I believe it was 108, that has lasted a lot longer but then I didn't go mining.

 

I went around harvesting feathers and chopping trees then cleaned out a gas station. That was perhaps an hour and a half and I didn't get hungry.

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I mean it is pretty realistic. If you do a labor intensive activity like mining stone and metal with a hand pickaxe you will need more calories to keep up. The game shows that by making it be points in hunger.  People who do severely labor intensive activities tend to eat huge calorie filled meals, the game just spreads that out instead of setting 2 or 3 points in the day where you're hungry.

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30 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:

It just seems disproportionate to me that different activities, or should i say different levels of physical intensity, result into more or less hunger regarding how much "energy" we seems to use.

Ok, sorry, there have been so many discussion, what people like to have changed and don't think a minute of everything else would be changed by these "ideas".

 

Is it literally only 2-3 minutes of mining when starting full? I understood that as literal exaggregation, people tend to do that.

If it is really that short it might really be a bug, as mentioned above.

Maybe you can't really mine a whole day without eating anything, but for sure you do not drop food from 100% to 50% in 180 seconds.

If it is this way, i suggest looking at your equipment and compare it to others. Maybe try mining naked and test if it still depletes that fast.

I could imagine a modification with just a sign error, not visible in the UI or something similar.

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It wouldn't be as big of a deal if it weren't for the difficulty of crafting farm plots.  I'd like to see a return of the A16 system of fertilizer, but with the 17 system of regenerating crops and fertilizer being required to get levels of food that are sustainable for small farms.

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Posted (edited)

It doesn't bother me that I get hungry after 5-6 game hours. I actually like that. That *is* realistic. What I think is ridiculous is it takes 4 or more cans of food to get full. If I did that IRL I'd be the size of a refrigerator. 

 

I wouldn't mind if canned food became much more rare but restored a sane amount of calories.

Edited by Ranzera (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

It doesn't bother me that I get hungry after 5-6 game hours. I actually like that. That *is* realistic. What I think is ridiculous is it takes 4 or more cans of food to get full. If I did that IRL I'd be the size of a refrigerator. 

 

I wouldn't mind if canned food became much more rare but restored a sane amount of calories.

Agreed. I feel the same. I don't mind food being important. It should be important. What I mind is that I'm constantly eating and going through that animation. I shouldn't have to do that animation 6+ times and down 5k calories to get back to full. 

Honestly, the system could easily be balanced with all of the supporting systems that are in place. Like, literally 4 hours of work with the core of that being spreadsheet setup and then data committing. Actually, the data committing (depending upon editor being used) could be longer. If you set up your sheet to export then really simple but that adds to set up time. But hey, what do I know, I've only done systems design and balance for 2 decades. 

Edited by Kirtonos (see edit history)

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21 minutes ago, Ranzera said:

I wouldn't mind if canned food became much more rare but restored a sane amount of calories.

The problem with this is that food would need to be really rare for this to work. At that point, you can get completely screwed by RNG and variance. The other problem with this is that TFP switched to requiring 5 meat, 5 bones, etc. for recipes to allow percent increases in perks to have a more meaningful effect. Canned food needs to be balanced against this. Additionally, if canned food was more filling why bother making more advanced foods? 

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There is a perk that slows down your metabolism of food, no?

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5 hours ago, Boidster said:

Note that although there isn't any "overeating" in A19 (your Food value can't be 120 out of 100), they did say that the first 20 points of excess food would be consumed more slowly. I guess that means that if you overeat, it will drain from 100 to 80 more slowly than if you just ate enough to get to exactly 100 food? Uncertain.

If that's a direct quote, it might explain my slowly draining drink buff. I took a drink just for the sta regen for running a distance, and the icon was showing a counter in seconds, but it was ticking down really slow, I'd say at least 5 seconds per tick. "Consumed slower", so as the buff counts down slowly, it will increase your hydration/food over a longer time, so you'll have time to burn some calories while the slow buff refills you again.

 

With the drink though, I think it also kept the +sta regen buff going for the entire duration; I was pretty happy about it, albeit a bit confused :)

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3 hours ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

The problem with this is that food would need to be really rare for this to work. At that point, you can get completely screwed by RNG and variance. The other problem with this is that TFP switched to requiring 5 meat, 5 bones, etc. for recipes to allow percent increases in perks to have a more meaningful effect. Canned food needs to be balanced against this. Additionally, if canned food was more filling why bother making more advanced foods? 

If I chuck a can of stock, a can of beef and a can of peas in something. I feel like I could be getting more than 1 meal out of it.

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9 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

This is not a reallife simulator. That's a game mechanic.

You get the "you are hungry" notification if you are down to 50%. I usually eat 2-3 times a day, so every ~5 hours (minus sleeping time). Often I become hungry even earlier, but still have to wait until i actually eat something. That doesn't mean i'll starve if i exceed those 5 hours by just one hour. I can stay hungry for a very very long time and still not die. So basically for those "it's not realistic-mimimi"-grumblers: The "you are hungry"-notification should kick in at 80% already! Being not at all hungry means, keeping it up to 100% not just above 50%.

 

Also to OP: I don't know what you are doing. If i'm fully eaten, it almost lasts a full day until i'm down to 50%. Yes, then the icon is showing, but you are still at FIFTY PERCENT! Even if i'm running/mining/fighting all day, it lasts a day. And yes, being hungry is not deadly immediately but still an anoying feeling... just like a icon showing permanently on your screen.

 

 

The game mechanic fills you more for heavier meals. Depletion has nothing to do with what you eat, depletion depends on what are you doing.

How much a meal fills ist also just a game mechanic that is somehow balanced, mostly around availability of food. So basically you want one steak or boiled meat gives you enough food for an entire day of running, mining, fighting? That is not even realistic. If you are doing heavy activity even 3 steaks a day wouldn't be unrealistic.

And if just a grilled or boiled steak will last for one day, what do you expect from beacon&eggs, meat stew or even hobo stew? Eat one, have enough food for three days?

According to how much meat eggs and other ingredients you loot, on day 5 you have enough food for the next 100 days? And guess what: It doesn't even spoil. How immersion breaking is that? UNPLAYABLE!

 

It should be changed, if you're fullness is above 80% for every 1% you get -5% movement, because you are fully eaten. Each 1% below 2% then costs you -2% movement, because you are becoming hungrier and hungrier and more and more exhausted. Then people would massively complain because you need to eat every 5 minutes a little bit, but also keep track not to eat too much. Is that what you call immersive? An eating simulator with zombies around?

 

My father would tell: Boy, you obviously never felt real hunger.

 

Sorry for rant, but those "tHiS iS nOt ReAlIsTiC" grumblers not thinking one second about game mechanics/how the game would work with such changes are really anoying.

I'd be inclined to agree with you, except that when we're in the "hungry" state, our stamina pool is reduced as well.  So yeah, in theory we could just ignore that annoying icon on the screen, but to do so means we're leaving ourselves gimped on stamina and that can mean our deaths. 

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Food could be improved by providing a well fed buff that stacks.

 

For instance, every 10% hunger you restore within a short period of time gives "Satiated"

 

Satiated

Decreases hunger loss by 15% for 10 minutes. Stacks 5 times.

 

The duration would not stack or refresh, so each stack would have its own individual 10 minute timer. The power of the buff and the timer could be balanced, but it would just mean that eating would provide temporary protection from becoming hungry again. Eating from 50% hunger would be best, giving a full 75% reduction in hunger loss for 10 minutes.

 

The buff would also balance itself to an extent, as the lack of hunger would prevent you from easily topping up the buff, the more stacks you have, the more stacks can fall off.

 

The food related talents could increase the buff power, duration or % needed.

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Posted (edited)

Comments/Complaints:

My character gets hungry after 1-2 POI (teir 2, clear zombies, so like at most 10 zombies) using knuckles when I've got 2 points into iron gun, after I've used 3 red tea and meat stew to get up to full before going in at level 30. 

I don't mind having to eat and manage the resource. I don't even mind that it takes me 5 peices of meat to make a steak (I laugh about this a lot tbh)

What I do mind is how fast the meter seems to deplete. I have a farm up and running and I've gotten lucky enough to get access to higher level foods like Meat stew, Sham chowder and the like. But it just seems to drain way to fast. and I haven't even gotten into mining yet so Im' expecting that to be a nightmare once I do.

 

Possible Solution:

It would be nice if there was something like a stacking buff. Say you keep your hunger up for X amount of time above a certain % (say 50 before you hit the you're hungry mark) For a day. You should get a well fed buff that boost the length of good foods. for a set amount of time. After that time the buff falls off and you have to stack it up again.

 

Spend a day getting the buff, Keep it for an extra day or two then stack it up again. This would work nicely for working around your base for a day getting thing set up before you get ready to go out PoI/Mission raiding.

 

But at least I have blackstrap.

Edited by Saramouse257 (see edit history)

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I took a closer look at food consumption when i played yesterday.... and yes, imho it depletes a little bit to fast. But still far far far far far away from "i became hungry after 3 minutes of mining when started full"....

 

And yes, i clear usually 1 POI and im down close to 50%, maybe even dropped a little below that. But i'm runing through the pois, (mostly melee) fighting, looting, jumping, or even breaking a safe when i ran out of lockpicks. So after clearing 1 POI i eat something, that's right. I especially looked at it when i decided not to eat looted cans as i want to keep them for cooking better food with them later.

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In general things have gotten better over time/alphas, imo.

There were times I survived for days on Yukka fruit, or berries or cornbread.

Which gave what? 3, 2 or 4 food? So yeah, the eating animation was a constant companion, heh.

 

Maybe TFPs will consider one or two small tweaks to the eating/food/recipe bit...

 

Hardest, but might be possible to add a way to click on a stack of food X and select, "Eat my fill" so if grilled meat and you're at 49% it would have you consume 5 meat in a single sequence.

 

Don't want to really clutter up the menus, but maybe a new Recipe for 'Large Steak' which used 15 meat & gave a Steak that was worth 30 food?

Don't know if those numbers are right, but something like that.

 

Biggest change, and basically counter to OP, would be more 'grazing' options. Gather and munch on things as you roam. Some leafy stuff could give a bit of food and water, maybe another type of berry in smallish clusters, so say ~15-20 food at most at current? 2 food per, and adjust the 'sick' percentage so you'd really have to abuse them before anything bad happened. Wild veggie of some sort? Could have it be better if cooked on a fire, no pot required.

Note I'm saying this without having played a19 yet, and knowing it really doesn't seem to fit in with TFPs remaining to-do list. Mainly musing here :)

Also the berries making you sick bit; I seem to have horrid luck eating even blueberries with a 1% chance to get sick. If I eat three in a row it becomes 50-50. That I'd like to see toned down. Course I can also mod it myself so not a big deal in the larger scheme.

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48 minutes ago, FileMachete said:

Also the berries making you sick bit; I seem to have horrid luck eating even blueberries with a 1% chance to get sick. If I eat three in a row it becomes 50-50.

I remember that berries made you sick from at least a15 on. That was still not food poisoning.

I don't know for all types of raw food but in A19 snowberries don't have any drawbacks anymore. In theory you can now survive by just eating snowberries.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

I don't know for all types of raw food but in A19 snowberries don't have any drawbacks anymore. In theory you can now survive by just eating snowberries.

That's a bit suprising really.. good to know though, thanks Liesel :)

Edited by FileMachete
oops, speeling. gotta remember I before E except after... (see edit history)

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