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Kanaan Brood

Now that You have played Alpha 19, What do you like or dislike?

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People seem to fail to understand my problem with the "It's an Alpha" defense in that it is often employed IN CONJUNCTION with the "Just mod it" solution.  The two do not go hand in hand.  When the final version is released, then I will mod it to the exact esoteric way that I like to play; until then, it's "play vanilla, note changes, look into mods to improve it, scrub mods for new alpha, repeat."

 

It also seemed that A18 had the fewest mods of any version; I'm assuming that is due to the proximity of it to A19.

 

In what I was saying, I'm going to continue to criticize that there aren't multiple "classes" of zombies that can be selected at the onset because I keep having to mod out vultures, cops, and spider zombies every version.  It's also a weird disconnect to see the zombies like the businessman looking so crude next to the redone ones.

 

Until things stabilize, the focus is extremely zombie-oriented grind.  Turning EXP up doesn't fix this, either, as the stamina drain means that the only effective system to leveling up is to slaughter hordes until you can spend enough skill points to not be AS hindered with it.

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26 minutes ago, Dracula said:

It also seemed that A18 had the fewest mods of any version; I'm assuming that is due to the proximity of it to A19.

Huh? I would state the opposite.

https://7daystodiemods.com/alpha-18-mods/

There are 64 pages with each 8 mods. Some of them may be redundant, but it may still not even be a complete list.

 

26 minutes ago, Dracula said:

In what I was saying, I'm going to continue to criticize that there aren't multiple "classes" of zombies that can be selected at the onset because I keep having to mod out vultures, cops, and spider zombies every version.  It's also a weird disconnect to see the zombies like the businessman looking so crude next to the redone ones.

And i like vultures, cops and spiders and even demolishers. Especially these, as they give the game a variation. The other ones are all the same with just different skins and amount of hitpoints. Ultra boring.

 

26 minutes ago, Dracula said:

Until things stabilize, the focus is extremely zombie-oriented grind.  Turning EXP up doesn't fix this, either, as the stamina drain means that the only effective system to leveling up is to slaughter hordes until you can spend enough skill points to not be AS hindered with it.

Building also gives a @%$*#!load of XP. Since A18 even more than any previous alpha. But the total xp gain is hard to compare, as older alphas had the LBD system which gives a completely different twist.

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1 hour ago, Dracula said:

It's also a weird disconnect to see the zombies like the businessman looking so crude next to the redone ones.

So this statement right here is an example of what I don't get about you.

 

1) Is it that you just don't know that they are converting all the zombies and they only had time to get done what they did and once you realize that all the zombies in the game will be updated you'll be, "Oh, cool"? Or

 

2) Is it that you do you know and you just wish they would hold back such changes until it could be all implemented at once so you wouldn't have to endure playing with partly done features?

 

Because this is a prime example of something that is a work in progress just like the progression and because the game is in Alpha and because you purchased early access you will see things in the game just like the zombies that are in various stages of work. In Alpha 20 there will be more new zombies and fewer of the legacy ones and in Alpha 21 perhaps they will get all the rest converted and your issue with this will be solved.

 

So if it is the first reason:(You didn't realize they were converting them all) then I can understand your criticism that the new ones don't match well with the old ones but then the ANSWER to your criticism literally is the fact that the game is in alpha and the zombie changeover is a WIP and you are seeing it because of your backstage pass AKA early access.

 

If it is the second reason: (You know but you hate playing the game with partly done features) then you really didn't understand what you bought into and I highly recommend putting the game away until the notification comes that it is fully released.

 

If there is a third reason I am all ears.

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1 hour ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Huh? I would state the opposite.

https://7daystodiemods.com/alpha-18-mods/

There are 64 pages with each 8 mods. Some of them may be redundant, but it may still not even be a complete list.

 

And i like vultures, cops and spiders and even demolishers. Especially these, as they give the game a variation. The other ones are all the same with just different skins and amount of hitpoints. Ultra boring.

 

Building also gives a @%$*#!load of XP. Since A18 even more than any previous alpha. But the total xp gain is hard to compare, as older alphas had the LBD system which gives a completely different twist.

 

Perhaps that's a different in mods relative to play styles; I found a lot more mods that were suited for what I wanted in previous versions versus A18.

 

A lot of what you like seems to fly in the face of the I like to play; I enjoy it as if it's a Romero movie where taking over something like an entire mall would be possible.  Zombies smashing down my walls are ridiculous, but having a mob of 100 waiting for me outside of it after I used the forge to build a few rebar frames is a terrifying experience.  I've had to use varying mods that allow a great degree of zombie health customization to get exactly what I want; it's not easy, but it's very satisfying to do so.

  

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

So this statement right here is an example of what I don't get about you.

 

1) Is it that you just don't know that they are converting all the zombies and they only had time to get done what they did and once you realize that all the zombies in the game will be updated you'll be, "Oh, cool"? Or

 

2) Is it that you do you know and you just wish they would hold back such changes until it could be all implemented at once so you wouldn't have to endure playing with partly done features?

 

Because this is a prime example of something that is a work in progress just like the progression and because the game is in Alpha and because you purchased early access you will see things in the game just like the zombies that are in various stages of work. In Alpha 20 there will be more new zombies and fewer of the legacy ones and in Alpha 21 perhaps they will get all the rest converted and your issue with this will be solved.

 

So if it is the first reason:(You didn't realize they were converting them all) then I can understand your criticism that the new ones don't match well with the old ones but then the ANSWER to your criticism literally is the fact that the game is in alpha and the zombie changeover is a WIP and you are seeing it because of your backstage pass AKA early access.

 

If it is the second reason: (You know but you hate playing the game with partly done features) then you really didn't understand what you bought into and I highly recommend putting the game away until the notification comes that it is fully released.

 

If there is a third reason I am all ears.

To elaborate on your first point; I'm well aware that it's a progress for the zombie transition and I think it looks great; the new zombies are so much better that it makes the old ones seem jarring in that they don't look like they're from the same game.  That's not a BAD thing, as it illustrates the drastic contrast between the updates and gives me hope about the future versions.

 

What I'm getting at is that I hate that if I comment on a feature or how a change disrupts my play style; like the shift from the craftable blocks in A17 to A18 where the only way to get a variety of blocks was to cheat them in, then the response I get is to "get a mod that lets you craft all blocks or play with cheats on" when my late-game fun is rebuilding an entire settlement and setting it up as a "survivor township," but, I digress.

 

I like seeing the progression but I don't care for the rebuttal to things like "Why can't I craft curved arches anymore?" "Why haven't I been able to build a road since A17?" with "Get a mod for it." as though it were the end-all-be-all for every problem.  I also have an immense disdain for farm plots as a mechanic.

 

Don't take my criticisms as a disliking of the game; I wouldn't be playing if I disliked it, I'm trying to articulate that I care more about the world-building aspect of the game than the zombie aspect and I hate to see features of that disappear as the alphas progress and that has me worried about the overall path of the game itself.  To me, the zombies are incidental and add to it as a challenge; but, as the number of different types of them have increased the buildable blocks have decreased.  I guess I'd say that it's like an ice cream sundae and, when I used to have three scoops of ice cream topped with whipped cream and cherries it's shifted to a scoop and a half of ice cream and significantly more whipped cream and cherries.

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I'll add that I replied in this thread:

 

Because this was my single biggest gripe about A18 and to see it's still broke in 19 was disappointing.

 

Two of my posts got merged when it was moved and declared "not a bug" with everything after :

 

"I have the same problem on the Voluya Territory map; I'm trying to replace gravel with forest floor and, while it harvests as clay, it does not render as the grass/forest texture."

 

Is me @%$*#!ing about it being relocated; to put it into perspective, getting the terrain to change is literally the most important thing to me in the development of the game.

 

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@Dracula I see what your frustration stems from now and I can sympathize with you. The developers have chosen a technology that has some benefits that are important to them but some limitations which damage your enjoyment of the game. I hope that those limitations will be able to be overcome at some point. It isn't that they don't care, it is that currently what you want is not possible.

 

The reason it was possible in A17 and before was that they used a different tech to render the world and that tech had benefits but also weaknesses. 

 

BTW...that "thread" is actually the Bug Pool and your tone and accusations are completely inappropriate for that venue. Just some friendly advice that you will go a lot further in getting what you want by not mistreating the people who have a hope of giving it to you. There is really no tolerance for rants there and the QA guys aren't going to get into big discussions over game philosophy with you and why which tech is the one the developers should have gone with. They just want to collect bugs, reproduce them, and create tickets for the programmers. That's it. They didn't sign up to be customer service reps who will smile and nod at people doing the angry customer routine.

 

If you really want to know why grass can be placed on top of destroyed stone and remain grass but turns into sand if placed next to other sand then ask faatal in the dev diary.

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On 7/3/2020 at 6:59 PM, Colin248 said:

that is fair. im just worried. this most recent change isnt gona fly well with many players who enjoy the game. the verity of loot from the get go was something people liked, helped make each palythrough very different. not every game would you end up with a steel tool from the get go, hell, even a iron one. now the chance is slim to none with only stone crap being stored in @%$*#!ing gun safes. ruins the immersion too. 

We just completely quit doing safes and stuff, it's simply pointless early on. As game progresses, we will change that. 

But opening safes if you KNOW that there is only stone stuff? Nah. If better stuff was super rare early on, I would be happy, finding it would be a jackpot and a story to tell. now it's just about finding copy paste material. I like the progression system, but I dislike its implementation. 

Random fun seems to be thrown out of the window. Random World Gen without a random factor. Random loot which is zero random. Just like ... level 1, 2, 3 ... 

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

It isn't a bad idea. One flaw though is that potentially a stealth player could go non-cheesingly through the poi with very few kills and be punished for that. One idea the devs are considering at the moment is one (or more?) keys you find on random zombies or in random locations in the POI, which sounds at least for the stealth player to be a somewhat better solution.

 

That's switching from a pure level grind to a zed grind. The randomness, good and bad lucks also makes or made up for part of the games charme. Not advocating a rain of blue and purple gear early on, but at least some randomnes..... blue items spawning with 0.005% probability in stone age, 5% in late game for instance ... level gated, but still funny randomness

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2 hours ago, Dracula said:

Perhaps that's a different in mods relative to play styles; I found a lot more mods that were suited for what I wanted in previous versions versus A18.

Saying there are "less mods" is completely different from saying "there are less mods THAT FIT MY PERSONAL STYLE".

 

 

2 hours ago, Dracula said:

but having a mob of 100 waiting for me outside of it after I used the forge to build a few rebar frames is a terrifying experience.  I've had to use varying mods that allow a great degree of zombie health customization to get exactly what I want; it's not easy, but it's very satisfying to do so.

I somehow also dislike the bloodmoon and think there should be other threats, depending on what the player does, not just strict every 7th day. Or even random but still not related to what the player does.

 

2 hours ago, Dracula said:

What I'm getting at is that I hate that if I comment on a feature or how a change disrupts my play style; like the shift from the craftable blocks in A17 to A18 where the only way to get a variety of blocks was to cheat them in, then the response I get is to "get a mod that lets you craft all blocks or play with cheats on" when my late-game fun is rebuilding an entire settlement and setting it up as a "survivor township," but, I digress.

I also agree in theory. But the point is, the game is not neccessarily going where you in person want it to go. Especially not vanilla. On the other hand just always "use a mod" shouldn't be the answer. There should be some balance in vanilla also, but it still may not be the way you prefer. There are thousands of opinions what should be changed in vanilla, not just yours. And that also collides with dozens of different playstyles. When it comes to what one person wants to be changed, most people develop a tunnel view on how they personally play and totally ignore how that affects people who want to play different. It's completely impossible to fit all playstyles.

So as an example when it comes to vultures and cops i completely disagree with your opinion. If they where removed in vanilla, the game becomes completely boring.

They are part of vanilla, you can mod them out easily, but i could not mod them in easily if they wouldn't be part of vanilla.

 

 

2 hours ago, Dracula said:

I'm trying to articulate that I care more about the world-building aspect of the game than the zombie aspect 

And i almost completely ignore the whole building aspect. But you are right, just because i'm not using it, it doesn't bother me if some kind of blocks are craftable or not. So i have no problem if those blocks become craftable (again). I also don't understand why some blocks are not craftable, and i'm fine if you get them craftable again.

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1 hour ago, Roland said:

If you really want to know why grass can be placed on top of destroyed stone and remain grass but turns into sand if placed next to other sand then ask faatal in the dev diary.

I've asked and a few other places; it was actually my desire to figure out WHY this happens that caused me to join this forum despite that I've been playing since around alpha 6; whatever the one was where you'd find rockets in gun safes.

 

When I bought the game, it was billed as "Like Minecraft, but with physics" in a review.  I've loved watching it develop and intend to keep doing so.  I realize that my particular brand of autism doesn't appeal to everyone and that what is a core mechanic to me may go unnoticed to thousands.

 

I've asked about it here before, but got no answers to in that were specific.  The last answer I got about it was "It'll be fixed in a future update" back when A18 first came out and I've been unable to find a mod or create one myself that fixes it.

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50 minutes ago, Noctoras said:

We just completely quit doing safes and stuff, it's simply pointless early on. As game progresses, we will change that. 

But opening safes if you KNOW that there is only stone stuff? Nah. If better stuff was super rare early on, I would be happy, finding it would be a jackpot and a story to tell. now it's just about finding copy paste material. I like the progression system, but I dislike its implementation. 

Random fun seems to be thrown out of the window. Random World Gen without a random factor. Random loot which is zero random. Just like ... level 1, 2, 3 ... 

That's switching from a pure level grind to a zed grind. The randomness, good and bad lucks also makes or made up for part of the games charme. Not advocating a rain of blue and purple gear early on, but at least some randomnes..... blue items spawning with 0.005% probability in stone age, 5% in late game for instance ... level gated, but still funny randomness

I'm not sure whether safes are worth it in the stone age, definitely not worth to use a stone axe, I open them only when I have lockpicks.

 

But I can say that in my game the brownish chests in the loot room of many pois still have a lot of stuff I want: For example mods or armor of all kind. In my current SP game I don't have points left in the first week to boost both my weapon perks and build a quality 5 stone age melee and ranged weapon and if I don't go strength or agility my ranged weapon will only get better if I find it in loot (or get them as quest rewards).

 

We get higher quality stone stuff relatively fast which means you potentially have a use for up to 4 mods for 5 armor pieces, one gun, one melee and up to 3 tools, all together 40 mods.

 

There are also schematics you want to find, some make sense in a gun safe.

 

But in general yes, I agree, there should be a very slim chance for better loot.

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1 hour ago, Dracula said:

I've asked and a few other places; it was actually my desire to figure out WHY this happens that caused me to join this forum despite that I've been playing since around alpha 6; whatever the one was where you'd find rockets in gun safes.

 

When I bought the game, it was billed as "Like Minecraft, but with physics" in a review.  I've loved watching it develop and intend to keep doing so.  I realize that my particular brand of autism doesn't appeal to everyone and that what is a core mechanic to me may go unnoticed to thousands.

 

I've asked about it here before, but got no answers to in that were specific.  The last answer I got about it was "It'll be fixed in a future update" back when A18 first came out and I've been unable to find a mod or create one myself that fixes it.

I can tell you that the reason you haven't been answered is because they don't know. They HOPE to be able to fix it but the problem is that it is a limitation of the technology they are using. It is not their intention to stifle the creativity of builders but it might be something they end up being willing to sacrifice if there are other benefits that are too good to pass up on. It does suck when it is a limitation of technology that prevents the developer from doing what we want them to do. All we can do is wait and hope that things change. Just as WE wait for game patches, the developers wait for patches to their engine and tools.

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I like the slower progression early game, but I think exceptions to it need to be made -- if I take a huge risk and take two days to clear out a large, high level POI early on, then spend another half day smashing the chest open with my stone axe, the loot shouldn't be a level two blunderbuss.

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3 hours ago, Noctoras said:

We just completely quit doing safes and stuff, it's simply pointless early on. As game progresses, we will change that. 

But opening safes if you KNOW that there is only stone stuff? Nah. If better stuff was super rare early on, I would be happy, finding it would be a jackpot and a story to tell. now it's just about finding copy paste material. I like the progression system, but I dislike its implementation. 

Meh, gear is a low priority for me.  There is gear raining from the sky and for those occasional dry spells I can just craft it.  Books, that is where the money is at.  Those are available from the start.

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There does seem to be a slim chance of finding loot from a tier above your game stage. A streamer in particular I was watching got a double barreled shotgun out of a bag on the first day. In my own game I didn't manage to find a DBS until I had actually purchased a Pump Shotgun from a trader after the second week. I had gotten plenty of pistols a few AK's and a couple Hunting rifles but no real shotguns. Which of course figures because I had all my points sunk into strength and kept Boomstick maxed out. I gotta say though that a Blunderbuss or two with a bandolier mod will do some incredible work. It took until day 26 to find a Q2 Steel Sledge, and Day 33 to finally find the schematic to make a good one. Even having bad luck getting the gear for my chosen skills the game has felt very good.

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2 hours ago, enragedcamel said:

I like the slower progression early game, but I think exceptions to it need to be made -- if I take a huge risk and take two days to clear out a large, high level POI early on, then spend another half day smashing the chest open with my stone axe, the loot shouldn't be a level two blunderbuss.

We can not do this in A19.

Later we may have this "large, high level POI" work at an elevated gamestage so that _both_ the loot and the zombies are higher level.

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6 hours ago, meganoth said:

I'm not sure whether safes are worth it in the stone age, definitely not worth to use a stone axe, I open them only when I have lockpicks.

 

But I can say that in my game the brownish chests in the loot room of many pois still have a lot of stuff I want: For example mods or armor of all kind. In my current SP game I don't have points left in the first week to boost both my weapon perks and build a quality 5 stone age melee and ranged weapon and if I don't go strength or agility my ranged weapon will only get better if I find it in loot (or get them as quest rewards).

 

We get higher quality stone stuff relatively fast which means you potentially have a use for up to 4 mods for 5 armor pieces, one gun, one melee and up to 3 tools, all together 40 mods.

 

There are also schematics you want to find, some make sense in a gun safe.

 

But in general yes, I agree, there should be a very slim chance for better loot.

Honestly most of the time what is in lootnis an upgrade for me so I dont mind the gamestage loot.  What helps me is I typically go with the flow of the game and play flexible.  If I have a ton of lock picks I'll try to pop a safe open but otherwise I move on as there will always be more loot.

 

I will however mark the map so when I have the lock pick candy I can maximize its buff at a later time. 😀

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I don't have anything new to bring to the table, indeed I'll be echoing some other posts, this just my 2c.

 

The early game progression being slower is a good idea, it's good for the low tier weapons to be useful for longer, but I find it just way TOO slow. As an experienced player I'm cranking up the xp multiplier to increase the gamestage, as the 'stone age' seems to take a ridiculously long time. However, if there was a slim chance of finding something good in safes I'd be happier. As it is, all early endeavours seem pointless (to me) bar hunting zombies for XP.

 

I'd even be happier if the early stage safes contain weapon parts, so it's not a quick 'win' condition, it still requires some luck, grind, and encourages trading between players. Or maybe limit the ammo drops, as I'm absolutely swimming in all ammo types by the time I get a firearm. I'd rather be able to find a gun and use it sparingly, than by the time I find one I'm instantly a one man army.

 

I understand the sentiment of enjoying the game world and taking things slow, building bases, but those things don't have to be at the detriment of the loot rooms. 

 

On the whole, though, it's a great alpha. Especially traders in the towns, that simple change is awesome.

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32 minutes ago, gaffers said:

Especially traders in the towns, that simple change is awesome.

I'm waiting for someone to make a base next to a trader because the wall next to it is invulnerable... If you can get all the zombies to come from that side you won horde night.
 

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26 minutes ago, KeiraR said:

I'm waiting for someone to make a base next to a trader because the wall next to it is invulnerable... If you can get all the zombies to come from that side you won horde night.

How is the wall invulnerable? You can't build in the trader protected area. You can build just next to the protected area, but these blocks are not invulnerable anymore. But Zs can walk into the protected area and start smashing your wall. I don't see how this should gona work?

And why are you waiting for someone else doing it and don't try it yourself?

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10 hours ago, enragedcamel said:

I like the slower progression early game, but I think exceptions to it need to be made -- if I take a huge risk and take two days to clear out a large, high level POI early on, then spend another half day smashing the chest open with my stone axe, the loot shouldn't be a level two blunderbuss.

I agree. It should be at least a level two blunderbuss and a sharp rock. 😉

 

I have read that the developers are working on assigning a gamestage to certain POIs. So you get better loot from this POIs.
But this also means that you can't go to a factory on day 1 and only see slow zombies. Instead, you will at least see feral zombies.

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Well, that's the idea. We want you to find better loot in a major POI but that makes no sense whatsoever while it's defended by lvl 1 scrubs. =P

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51 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

How is the wall invulnerable? You can't build in the trader protected area. You can build just next to the protected area, but these blocks are not invulnerable anymore. But Zs can walk into the protected area and start smashing your wall. I don't see how this should gona work?

And why are you waiting for someone else doing it and don't try it yourself?

The invulnerability is in a certain radius around the trader. In some cases, this then also affects the walls of nearby buildings.

For example, I have a trader next to whom there is a small scrap yard. The fence surrounding the scrap yard is made of wood and therefore very weak. If I would replace the unprotected walls with concrete then the zombies would try to break through the wooden fence but it is protected by the trader.

But I would have to turn off the sound if I wanted to fight the horde there because the sound of protected blocks would really annoy me.

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My favorite bit about a19 (haven't played yet) is that it dropped, and the forums came alive!  It was getting really boring around here lol :biggrin1:

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A few more things as I play more -

 

-I don't like that the RWG worlds are all pretty much the same biome layout with a big forest biome in the center 

-I don't like that you always start in the forest biome and that it's the biggest biome 

-sky too colorful and not a fan of lots of big puffy clouds all the time  - the sky looked more realistic to me in 18

- colors in general too intense - when it's all too colorful and busy, coming across a field of flowers just doesn't have any impact any more

-love how the zombies fall sometimes, although it makes the game more of a comedy at times - but who doesn't need a good laugh in the apocalypse, right?

-I do like the loot scheme in general - getting too much good stuff early on might be fun but reduces the challenge to trivial

-on the other hand, certain things seemed aimed to make the game simpler and more colorful which is weird since I don't think the other stuff in the game is aimed at kids

-I like the traders moved to town - makes more sense!

-I'll live with whatever you do to zombies, although I will say I liked some of the old models and miss them.

- I like we have a choice to listen or not to the music

-I like that the game can be modded - I haven't done this yet, but I now have some reasons to want to do so

-I'll update on the other biomes when I finally escape the forest biome ....  please I hope they aren't overly colorful.  I want bleak and dreary somewhere in the apocalypse! 

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16 hours ago, Roland said:

I can tell you that the reason you haven't been answered is because they don't know. They HOPE to be able to fix it but the problem is that it is a limitation of the technology they are using. It is not their intention to stifle the creativity of builders but it might be something they end up being willing to sacrifice if there are other benefits that are too good to pass up on. It does suck when it is a limitation of technology that prevents the developer from doing what we want them to do. All we can do is wait and hope that things change. Just as WE wait for game patches, the developers wait for patches to their engine and tools.

And that's why I'm going to keep commenting and trying to figure out how to share how I play the game in hopes that it may help for others with similar play styles or entice a different audience.  The way my wife plays is even more different; she loves building massive underground complexes that she can drive vehicles into and pop up at points of interest and tearing down any building she deems unsightly.

 

In A17, she would recreate as many roads as possible and linked all the isolated road sections on platforms together to create a bizarre elevated highway to drive on.

6 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The invulnerability is in a certain radius around the trader. In some cases, this then also affects the walls of nearby buildings.

For example, I have a trader next to whom there is a small scrap yard. The fence surrounding the scrap yard is made of wood and therefore very weak. If I would replace the unprotected walls with concrete then the zombies would try to break through the wooden fence but it is protected by the trader.

But I would have to turn off the sound if I wanted to fight the horde there because the sound of protected blocks would really annoy me.

This is exactly what my wife is doing now; she's building a reinforced concrete bunker around everything and leaving the plywood wall as a "weak point" to see if this works.

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