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Now that You have played Alpha 19, What do you like or dislike?


Kanaan Brood

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The Good:

1) Graphical updates (except that one zombie with the hanging eyeball... Her head is too big, scale it down a bit)
The game really looks much better, and feels much more immersive. (But only after I disabled the on screen/map markers for a few things in the data files)

2) The loot progression is awesome! I really feel the steady progress towards becoming stronger and stronger, and the times I land a lucky item that pushes me a bit farther really is enjoyed. Overall 8/10.
My one caveat with the loot progression is how is works with multiplayer. It should not increase your allies loot table if your friend has a higher game stage than you. I found it strange that when my buddy joined my server, and grabbed his first few boxes, his whole loot progression was ruined because he was getting loot from my gamestage. Right off the bat is getting steel gear, ak47 tier 4, etc. And it's even worse that the gamestage loot effect is distance related. So depending on how far you are from your friend, his loot can change drastically. This means that playing with friends who aren't at your gamestage can totally ruin this entire new progression system. (hence the -2)
 
3) New zombie actions. From the head motion tracking (which at times still feels a little off), to zombies sometimes stumbling as a door they're smashing on breaks, all these little details really add to the immersion. It's so funny when a group of zombies drop from above, and one falls right on his face, one sprints at you (feral) and a few slowly walk to you. It makes the zombies feel more individualized. Which is a good thing when you encounter so many. Little details like this are much appreciated.

4) Hit detection. Need I say more? Thank you!

5) New traits & books. I think a few things could change (I'd honestly put heavy armor back in fortitude), but it's overall a big improvement. There's still a few books I'd like to see though (efficient stacks of gunpowder and gas cans).

Generally the progression feels great! (And that includes stamina use, since with everything maxed, and a stamina buff going, you can swing forever, which makes sense to me that you can achieve perfect form with all the buffs (it's 5 minutes too, so it's not so bad to drink a pure mineral water before mining or a coffee) 

6) Trader direction quest. Neat!

7) Zombie Ai and pathing changes. And improvement from alpha 18. 

😎 Wood wedge tips! Thanks and goodbye Tablesaw, you will not be missed. 

Mixed:

1) The addition of new weapons and tools is great! It's just that I sort of wish the animations had been fleshed out a bit more before getting them out. I'm stil hopeful an update will come before I reach the new sniper rifle or auto shotgun, both of which have strange scope issues. Although the shotgun only has a visual issue, whereas the sniper really needs a pass to be usable without a scope. If it needs a scope to be used, implement that better. Blocking your view with a giant non-usable scope is silly. 

But growing pains right? 😜 I'm really glad to see the additions. Looking forwards to some more polish on them.

2) The new battle music is really cool. I enjoy it actually, and all the auditory updates have been enjoyable. I've only put this here, because I think there needs to be a setting to disable the battle music only. Just a checkbox for it. I haven't figured out how to disable it yet. (working on it) But I don't think everyone wants to fiddle with the game code to achieve the immersion they seek. That should be an option in game settings. (Like brightness)

3) The new marker system has a lot of potential. I think it's a big improvement actually, but I couldn't stand how in your face some of it was. I was able to disable the parts I didn't like in the data files, but there needs to be some settings for this. I think this will help new players a lot, but it can break immersion. I even wish there was a button (enable markers) that you could press to switch this on/off in a giffy. It would be the perfect solution (if there was also settings to control what is and isn't worth showing), allowing the utility of the update to be used, but without the visual noise, that along with the battle music can break immersion at times. 

4) The new critical injury system is interesting for sure. I've played to day 12 and I've still yet to even get a sprain on warrior difficulty. I've been hearing all about them though, but I guess if you never get hit (except a few swings here and there) you don't really have much a chance to get them. So I went into creative mode in a new map and testing fighting large groups of 25 zombies, and wow... It's a bit harsh. But my opinion is not really that the debuffs are too strong, but rather the duration is too long. 

I'm fine with items being used to remove critical injuries, but I don't think they should last up to an hour if not managed. This is terrible for new players, and leads to veterans having more inventory clutter. I like the idea, but I think critical injuries should last 5 minutes MAX, with most only 30 seconds. When you get a critical injury, you should think: "Oh crap, I better retreat for now and tend to my wounds." If the duration of the debuff without treatment is longer than 5 minutes, they can really negatively affect gameplay when the player is not carrying the appropriate item. I think the system needs to change to lessen how long it punishes players for not carrying (antibiotics, pain killers, bandages, water, food, lockpicks, bullets, candies, sowing kit, stilts, etc. It starts to become a bit much you need to carry with you on excursions and takes away from the enjoyment. 

5) I will start by saying that unlike some of the people here, I really enjoy the new food/water drain speeds. I think it makes getting food feel more difficult. Although I can understand some people's feelings that it's non-immersive, and a system where the players finds way less food, but only eats 1-3 times a day would be more immersive. However, given the pace of the game, and the volume of loot, it's hard to stop players from collecting or making large amounts of food and drinks, so if each one gave a significant benefit, it would be too easy again. So I really like the new degradation speed. 

However, I think the stamina penalty from thirst and hunger was much better in alpha 18. Gradual stamina loss as you get more hungry feels a lot better than arbitrary points that suddenly drastically lower your stamina. I don't think I need to say more on this. Just please, go back to stamina = min food/water. It was a good system, and didn't need to change. 

The Bad:

 

1) That zombie with a eyeball hanging out has some head scaling issues. And two of the other new zombies (redhead, and blonde dude have odd hair. It looks out of place. (And it doesn't help that it stays on the body once she's lost her head... haha)

2) Great work, not much to hate on. 😜 

Edited by Loboling (see edit history)
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On 7/1/2020 at 11:57 AM, dowz0r said:

I honestly think the new loot system is terrible. I'm trying to think from the perspective of a realistic and fun approach to how looting would look like in this post-apocalyptic world. It's pretty lame finding a military style ammunition crate that only gives you some @%$*#!ty spears or low level trash because you're only on game stage 5. This is immersion breaking in my opinion. I've noticed looting is almost linear and not random at all, you know what to expect,

Yes, prolonging the stone age is a good idea, the implementation not so much. If I am no archeologist, my chances on finding worthy antique stuff might be low, but they are there. It's not a necessity to be an automated trash collector then. 

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Stone tools and weapons shouldn't be in Safes with 5000 hit points or even in loot boxes. The right place for them would be every where else....in trash, cabinets, cars.

 

Edit:

The only exception would be if the stone tools and weapons were fossils from stone age that you could sell at the Trader for 5000 tokens. ;)

Edited by Qanon (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Qanon said:

Stone tools and weapons shouldn't be in Safes with 5000 hit points or even in loot boxes. The right place for them would be every where else....in trash, cabinets, cars.

 

Edit:

The only exception would be if the stone tools and weapons were fossils from stone age that you could sell at the Trader for 5000 tokens. ;)

Totally agree. Working Stiff crate at top of church had 3, count 'em 3, stone shovels! One was even green. Game stage 14, luck looter 2 and lucky goggles. If you've seen Galaxy Quest, replace savings with treasure "By Grabthar's Hammer, wh...what a treasure".

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For me its the head tracking that is off. i like the idea, but it needs work. i smacked a zed and spinned it's body around without its head moving. taking with trader jen you can see it as well. the body  and the head moves independant of each other it looks like. stamina useage is way up and food consumption is way up as well. you really have to put food down very very earily. 

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Graphics are much better.  Even at night with the brightness up, it still feels like night.  The textures are sharper, trees look better, new HD zombies look great.  Overall a wonderful overhaul to the graphics.

 

The game is more difficult so far.  Using a blunderbuss, primitive tools, etc.  Makes it more difficult.  

 

However this is also a negative.  You have no chance of finding something good at early levels.  in A18 it was way too easy to get quality 5 and 6 ak's in the first couple days.  But now there is 0 chance of finding something nice because everything is locked behind gamestage.  Not sure the point of the lucky looter perk now.

 

It's feeling a little less sandbox and a little more linear with the fact that you only gain specific items as you level and increase your gamestage.   

 

The new tools are nice, a ratchet to take apart cars instead of a wrench?  It's great, so much faster.  

 

I also noticed they changed mining iron, now you get scrap iron instead of iron chunks.  Not a big deal, but a noticeable change. 

 

The crit's are a nice addition.  Sprained arm, etc.  But I don't think I've ever seen my hunger icon gone for more than a minute or so.  The game is a non stop battle for food now.  I thought there was going to be a hunger and thirst meter on your ui, I only get the icon that tells me when I'm hunger and thirsty, which is pretty much all the time.

 

Overall it seems pretty good so far, but I'm only a few days into the game.

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Did I mention I relaly enjoy the blunderbuss? 

 

Although how well does it work on the highest diffulty? It's one shotting things for me right now, but not sure that will remain true on a higher difficulty.

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On 6/30/2020 at 1:10 PM, Ranzera said:

Melee hit detection is much better. I've been playing MP and I feel the issues with my sledge ignoring the zeds for those sweet sweet blocks behind them are basically gone.

Really?

 

I am finding the melee hit detection MASSIVELY worse.  Head on works fine but the instant I am at an angle I end up hitting walls, floors and virtually anything but what my aim is actually on.  It is not a problem with where I am aiming either - as I said head on works every single time like it should.  

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New graphics and equipment is awesome.  I actually like the new food system particularly with the new recipes, candy and effects.  New loot system is a good step forward as well as it really does make anything not a top tier item useful again.  Never before used the blunderbuss - not once.  Now it had a use and I have a ton of them.  Don't really like finding stone tools in containers as it is rather jarring - they do not belong - but from a game play stance this is a very good thing IMHO.  New Junk turret needs a bit of work, it really is not very useful as it does not seem to acquire a target and fire before it goes out of range.  Vultures actually attacking tiles is a huge plus - cant just ignore their existence anymore.  I like the new starting spawn and trader locations, takes a little of the random aspect away from getting a decent start.  New assets in poi's are also very nice.  Normalizing progression across all weapons and tools is also a really good idea IMHO.  

 

Very disappointed in the perk changes - I was hoping TFP would see the light and abandon the current attribute categorization for something that actually allows me to customize my character and playstyle rather than boxing me into a class system that is neither original, freeing or fun.  Not happy with reducing wooden storage box space.  Storage space needs to be normalized across all containers to allow us to actually use them rather than making one storage the only thing worth having.  At least the replacement is not difficult to produce.  Starting stamina usage is really bad as well.  I spent far to much time bored and standing around waiting for my stamina to replenish in the early game.  Mid game and a few perks in sex rex and this peters out but leaves a really bad impression at the outset like playing a mobile game with timers.  The worst time to have that kind of impression.

 

 

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On 7/1/2020 at 5:42 AM, Liesel Weppen said:

Ah, ok gamestage sounds reasonable. I assume there is some xml where i can look up what gamestages are needed for what "age"?

 

But the backdraw is, so i can now basically stop looting and just fight zombies to level up until my gamestage reaches the next level. As somebody wrote already here, i would waste time will not find anything better anyway, instead it's better to safe up the loot crates (especially the special ones) to open later when they can have spawned better things...

Not really.  

 

Now your equipment is only going to get incrementally better but it is STILL incrementally better and that improves your ability to fight, kill and build.  

 

Saving that box for later just gimps you now in favor of getting better stuff later - when you are getting that better stuff everywhere anyway.  It may be true that saving those crates for later would be a good idea if the total number of good crates was quite limited but really they are not.  Loot is everywhere.  

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I really love the new music. The night time music is pretty awesome.  

 

Is there a way to turn off the combat music? Sometimes it alerts me that something is after me before I even realize. The directional audio is really useful in combat, but sometimes the combat music prevents me from hearing my surroundings. 

 

Great job with this game and the dedication from the developers. I bought this game in Alpha 8, and right now I can say I'm proud that this game has more hours than anything else in my library.

Edited by stupid (see edit history)
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Nice: new lighting, ragdoll animations, more tools/weapons to play around with, blunderbuss useful.

 

Not nice: flattening the loot progression (I guess to make the blunderbuss useful) completed the game's transformation from fun and surprising, if janky sandbox to grindy, janky, unimaginative zombie shooter. Instead of locking character progression behind actual challenge (the early hub cities were a decent early example of this), it's locked behind grind. Finding a gun store doesn't matter because it'll have the same blunderbusses and stone spears as literally every attic in the town. Smash more zombies to make the blunderbusses & spears turn purple, smash even more zombies to magically turn them into modern weapons. It doesn't matter what quests you take, which POIs you raid, you're getting the same stuff over and over again anyways, all dictated by your gamestage number.

 

The weird thing is that early alphas strongly hinted at progression being challenge-based. If you wanted guns, you'd look for police stations or Shotgun Messiah stores, which had a better chance of spawning in city hubs, which were significantly more dangerous than the wilds or suburbia. You needed to prepare for that trip. Now you just run to the nearest town, and start clearing out random POIs because they all hold the same zombies and loot anyways. If TFP would have followed through on the ideas in those early alphas, they could've made tiered biomes and POIs , with resources and loot appropriate to the challenge. Players could then choose to take on extra challenge and risk if they felt like upgrading their stuff earlier than "normal". Now the only difference between biomes is how often you have to chug drinks or food, with barely a reason to ever leave the pleasant greens of the forest biome.

 

I hate to say it, but between the removal of several biomes, transforming most POIs into linear dungeon crawls with guaranteed loot rooms and having GS dictate what loot you can get, this game really lost a lot of its early charm.

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8 hours ago, stupid said:

I really love the new music. The night time music is pretty awesome.  

 

Is there a way to turn off the combat music? Sometimes it alerts me that something is after me before I even realize. The directional audio is really useful in combat, but sometimes the combat music prevents me from hearing my surroundings. 

 

Great job with this game and the dedication from the developers. I bought this game in Alpha 8, and right now I can say I'm proud that this game has more hours than anything else in my library.

I agree with the combat music being over the top, especially during horde night. I feel strongly that ambience and good sound design does much better than just music. I think the sound track should just be ambience, nothing that alerts you that you're being swarmed or things of that nature. 

 

The trader music is also a bit annoying. Might be better if it were more faded in the background or had like a radio filter effect on it or even if it was more of a stinger - played for a brief moment and then faded out. Otherwise is just feels obnoxious when it starts playing and stays. 

1 hour ago, Hrod Land said:

Nice: new lighting, ragdoll animations, more tools/weapons to play around with, blunderbuss useful.

 

Not nice: flattening the loot progression (I guess to make the blunderbuss useful) completed the game's transformation from fun and surprising, if janky sandbox to grindy, janky, unimaginative zombie shooter. Instead of locking character progression behind actual challenge (the early hub cities were a decent early example of this), it's locked behind grind. Finding a gun store doesn't matter because it'll have the same blunderbusses and stone spears as literally every attic in the town. Smash more zombies to make the blunderbusses & spears turn purple, smash even more zombies to magically turn them into modern weapons. It doesn't matter what quests you take, which POIs you raid, you're getting the same stuff over and over again anyways, all dictated by your gamestage number.

 

The weird thing is that early alphas strongly hinted at progression being challenge-based. If you wanted guns, you'd look for police stations or Shotgun Messiah stores, which had a better chance of spawning in city hubs, which were significantly more dangerous than the wilds or suburbia. You needed to prepare for that trip. Now you just run to the nearest town, and start clearing out random POIs because they all hold the same zombies and loot anyways. If TFP would have followed through on the ideas in those early alphas, they could've made tiered biomes and POIs , with resources and loot appropriate to the challenge. Players could then choose to take on extra challenge and risk if they felt like upgrading their stuff earlier than "normal". Now the only difference between biomes is how often you have to chug drinks or food, with barely a reason to ever leave the pleasant greens of the forest biome.

 

I hate to say it, but between the removal of several biomes, transforming most POIs into linear dungeon crawls with guaranteed loot rooms and having GS dictate what loot you can get, this game really lost a lot of its early charm.

Agree with this regarding the loot - it's what I was trying to explain earlier. The looting experience is dulled down to knowing what you're going to get for the most part. Finding a unique POI such as a military base or a specific factory isn't exciting, unless you decide to just save it for later because the game stage system forces you to, not because you know it might be dangerous to go in. Fun Pimps needs to work on a Risk vs. Reward system for loot. I realize that it may be difficult to create a challenging POI when we can just cheese through it potentially by towering our way to the main loot and just busting through some blocks, but that's the hard part of being a developer I think. Maybe add a stability system that prevents you from just stacking unupgraded blocks too high (I actually think this would be a good idea), surround important loot with high HP level blocks, etc. I still prefer the previous loot system to this current one. 

Edited by dowz0r (see edit history)
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Haven't played A19 yet but I can echo some of the "grindy progression" complaints, it indeed seems each alpha becomes more of an XP grind than a true risk/reward assesment. Still hoping in my wildest dreams subbiomes for towns/cities make it in the game, even if vanillla does absolutely nothing with it. People like me looking for an appropriate risk/reward challenge will be able to Make Or Do city spawns to be more like the A11/A12 days.

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I don't know if they ever get more difficult POIs in the game that can't be just exploited but at least more difficult biomes are in the works AFAIK. It might even happen in A20 where RWG will be one of the development hot spots.
 

13 hours ago, dan said:

Graphics are much better.  Even at night with the brightness up, it still feels like night.  The textures are sharper, trees look better, new HD zombies look great.  Overall a wonderful overhaul to the graphics.

 

The game is more difficult so far.  Using a blunderbuss, primitive tools, etc.  Makes it more difficult.  

 

However this is also a negative.  You have no chance of finding something good at early levels.  in A18 it was way too easy to get quality 5 and 6 ak's in the first couple days.  But now there is 0 chance of finding something nice because everything is locked behind gamestage.  Not sure the point of the lucky looter perk now.

 

It's feeling a little less sandbox and a little more linear with the fact that you only gain specific items as you level and increase your gamestage.   

 

The new tools are nice, a ratchet to take apart cars instead of a wrench?  It's great, so much faster.  

 

I also noticed they changed mining iron, now you get scrap iron instead of iron chunks.  Not a big deal, but a noticeable change. 

 

The crit's are a nice addition.  Sprained arm, etc.  But I don't think I've ever seen my hunger icon gone for more than a minute or so.  The game is a non stop battle for food now.  I thought there was going to be a hunger and thirst meter on your ui, I only get the icon that tells me when I'm hunger and thirsty, which is pretty much all the time.

 

Overall it seems pretty good so far, but I'm only a few days into the game.

So a sandbox is a game where you can get the best stuff at the start of the game? Surely not. At the moment there is still a small chance to get tier1 weapons like pistol or double barrel shotgun in the first few days. And that is fine, otherwise the game enters easy-mode just because you had an unlucky "lucky draw"

 

Food and water meters are the thin blue and red lines directly above or below your toolbelt. Easy to overlook

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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12 minutes ago, meganoth said:

I don't know if they ever get more difficult POIs in the game that can't be just exploited but at least more difficult biomes are in the works AFAIK. It might even happen in A20 where RWG will be one of the development hot spots.

 

Not trying to nitpick but hasn't RWG been a hotspot both for A18 and for A19 ? 

 

I mean... I don't even think the POIs need that much work on the inside. Maybe a mask to raise the gamestage for the best POIs is all that is needed.

What I can't really understand though is the current focus on slow and steady progression, yet the best way to play the game is to hit the nearest city as soon as you spawn because it's, simply put, a cluster of POIs with 0 drawbacks. I feel the game would play so much better if the best POIs were in the cities, guarded by tough/numerous zombies in the streets, and that you'd have to actually work to get a chance to loot them. Day 1 would be a "let's loot that isolated POI in the wild, it will be easier", Day 7 would be "Let's set up near that small town", and Day 15 would be "Let's hit that huge city now that we can". Steady progression, sense of accomplishment, reward. And not some weird "set up near loot city but what you find is capped until you killed enough zombies".

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6 minutes ago, meganoth said:

So a sandbox is a game where you can get the best stuff at the start of the game?

 

That's a misrepresentation of what is being said by quite a few people. Nobody is arguing that you should get all the best stuff day one. It's about variety, player motivation and risk vs. reward. For many of us, motivation is dulled by the flat progression curve the last few alphas have shifted the game towards. The game has become more predictable, both in terms of loot and challenge, and I find myself making fewer interesting choices. Like beHype said above, you can just set up camp inside any of the towns and from there on the game will play out pretty much the same every time: orange quality blunderbusses and spears everywhere at the start, and military sniper rifles in garden sheds guarded by radiated wights during late game. It doesn't really matter much where you go (aside from bookstores, those remain a must loot).

If RWG is indeed getting looked at (it should, even aside from the risk vs. reward discussion), I hope TFP move (back?) towards loot level being dependent on the quality of the threats defeated, not the quantity. A game like Terraria does it really well, imho. You can go deeper for better loot whenever you want, but you're very likely to get killed in return.

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56 minutes ago, beHypE said:

Not trying to nitpick but hasn't RWG been a hotspot both for A18 and for A19 ? 

 

I mean... I don't even think the POIs need that much work on the inside. Maybe a mask to raise the gamestage for the best POIs is all that is needed.

What I can't really understand though is the current focus on slow and steady progression, yet the best way to play the game is to hit the nearest city as soon as you spawn because it's, simply put, a cluster of POIs with 0 drawbacks. I feel the game would play so much better if the best POIs were in the cities, guarded by tough/numerous zombies in the streets, and that you'd have to actually work to get a chance to loot them. Day 1 would be a "let's loot that isolated POI in the wild, it will be easier", Day 7 would be "Let's set up near that small town", and Day 15 would be "Let's hit that huge city now that we can". Steady progression, sense of accomplishment, reward. And not some weird "set up near loot city but what you find is capped until you killed enough zombies".

No, up to now only one programmer was working on RWG, besides other jobs. It  may have been that an artist or designer  helped for a time (not sure, my memory is very flacky) but AFAIK always just one programmer. And if I understand MM correctly, for A20 there will be a real team effort to get remaining kinks out of it. 

 

I agree that dangerous cities would be a good feature, but it also means that good players will just jump ahead of any loot progression and then complain about a missing end-game on day 10. Balancing that is almost impossible. But as I said it would be a good feature. And I also liked that you had to find and hit specific POIs if you needed something specific. Which is still the case but less than in previous alphas.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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42 minutes ago, Hrod Land said:

That's a misrepresentation of what is being said by quite a few people. Nobody is arguing that you should get all the best stuff day one. It's about variety, player motivation and risk vs. reward. For many of us, motivation is dulled by the flat progression curve the last few alphas have shifted the game towards. The game has become more predictable, both in terms of loot and challenge, and I find myself making fewer interesting choices. Like beHype said above, you can just set up camp inside any of the towns and from there on the game will play out pretty much the same every time: orange quality blunderbusses and spears everywhere at the start, and military sniper rifles in garden sheds guarded by radiated wights during late game. It doesn't really matter much where you go (aside from bookstores, those remain a must loot).

If RWG is indeed getting looked at (it should, even aside from the risk vs. reward discussion), I hope TFP move (back?) towards loot level being dependent on the quality of the threats defeated, not the quantity. A game like Terraria does it really well, imho. You can go deeper for better loot whenever you want, but you're very likely to get killed in return.

 

So you say it is different to A15 where you got pistols at first, then shotguns and hunting rifles? After a while you found AKs and snipers. Sure the actual moment was quite random, but there was a loot progression that seldomly varied. And everyone did the same things every playthrough. I partly liked how the minibike book and the calipers sometimes could be found immediately and sometimes almost never but those were single points of uncertainty in A15. If you are talking about even earlier alphas, ok, that is unknown territory to me.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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Most of the concerns I’m reading about loot will be cleared up once they are able to add dynamic gamestage boosts to biomes, areas, and POIs and also introduce the encounter system. 
 

TFP isn’t moving away from being able to find better loot in more dangerous places, they are creating the system that will allow that to happen dynamically. We just are in the midst of that change. 
 

In the future they will be able to make a shotgun messiah be gamestage +50 (or whatever) so that both the enemies and the treasure will be higher than the surrounding stores. They’ll also be adding three levels of radiation as an indicator of sorts as you approach a place or area so that you’ll know if it is tough, tougher or toughest before choosing to engage. 
 


 

 

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Thanks Roland, that's very encouraging to read. Even if it probably means waiting another year for it to become reality ;)

 

FWIW I'm not on some rant about earlier alphas being better, I just thought they hinted at a different approach, one that I prefer to what there is now. But if what Roland wrote is true, that's actually where they're going again. It even looks like the radiation suit might do something!

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