Now that You have played Alpha 19, What do you like or dislike?

[theFlu]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

How to make it fun? Change it again.

While getting used to is part of the boredom, I was trying to make those changes Active. As in, whether you know how to treat the injury or not, and whether you use a cure or not, it will change your behaviour in the game. Or punish you for not respecting it. I see that as more fun; if you can achieve a "playable injury", now you have a little more complexity in the game.

 

Minigame for cupboards? Nah, I'm good, way too common an event and would just be annoying. Minigame for lockpicking? Beats staring at a safe for 20 secs with nothing to do ... wouldn't be amazing in six months, but it would be Better in six months assuming you can save some of the time.

[beHypE]

9 hours ago, Roland said:

Mega is right that healing injuries and eating and drinking is mundane. Sure...changing up how those things work WOULD be more fun....at first. But within a few weeks of playing with the new way they would become mundane too. How to make it fun? Change it again. 

 

Other than changing how these things work to make them feel fresh and new again, there is no way to make them feel interesting long term. No matter what you do, healing, eating & drinking are common repetitive tasks that become mundane and rote pretty quickly. This doesn't mean they are hated tasks or that we should remove damage, hunger, and thirst-- but unless the developers want to change things up every update to keep them fresh, whatever it is they land on (which if it is different than what we have now will sound cool and fun) will eventually become just as mundane to what we have now.

 

Same with scavenging. They could add a minigame to opening containers that would definitely feel fresh and fun compared to the timer we watch right now. Would that minigame still be fun and amazing in 6 months or would we wish we could just skip the minigame and get the crap we actually want out of the cupboard....?

 

While true, this can be said for anything in the game; why bother updating the game at all if everything eventually becomes "the same ol'" anyways ?

Not saying the system is perfect or couldn't be enhanced but Valheim nailed the food mechanism pretty well if you ask me. You can just ignore it and run around with 25hp or you can use junk food for easy locations, but at the same time when @%$# hits the fan you better have robust meals in your belly. And quite frankly they could (and probably will) add many more recipes with more buffs than just total health/stamina values.

 

This is probably what is missing in 7 days to die. You can get by with bacon and eggs the whole game and there's really no incentive to diversify your food intake unless you're running out of eggs (or meat, but we all know that doesn't happen).

[Roland]

3 hours ago, beHypE said:

why bother updating the game at all if everything eventually becomes "the same ol'" anyways

Because overhauling every system over and over again just to keep them fresh for longtime players is not the way to design a game. You have to settle upon a design and stick with that and accept the universal truth that eventually people will get bored of your game and move on to another one. 

 

Hopefully your own sequel...

 

Valheim has a good system but if every game uses the same system then there really is no escape from the boredom. Playing Valheim gives a fresh perspective on food and hunger so it is fun until it gets boring. If 7 Days adopts that system then people migrating to either game are going to be like...."Oh this same thing?"

[beHypE]

I'm not saying 7 days should port over Valheim's system, obviously. I also understand food is just a side system because the genre requires it, and not by any means where the game tries to shine. Then again it wouldn't be a shame if it was a bit more complex than a bar you have to fill so the game leaves you alone, so to speak. 

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, beHypE said:

I'm not saying 7 days should port over Valheim's system, obviously. I also understand food is just a side system because the genre requires it, and not by any means where the game tries to shine. Then again it wouldn't be a shame if it was a bit more complex than a bar you have to fill so the game leaves you alone, so to speak. 

 

There is a reason the complexity in 7d2d is in building and not eating. Hunger is a very onedimensional trait

 

 

 

 

[theFlu]

Complexity in building? You shovel some mats, maybe show them to a magical Mixer, and then stack blocks on one another..? There's no complexity there. And why would there be, it's just a mandatory part of a base-building game?

 

(It's about 90% joke, don't get yer panties in a twist... )

[Maharin]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Hunger is a very one dimensional trait

 

True, but nutrition isn't.  Requiring someone to eat a variety of foods (meats, veggies, fruits, etc.) and vitamins on a regular basis would make things harder for sure.  But whether that would be fun or not is a personal thing.

[Roland]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

There is a reason the complexity in 7d2d is in building

*was…

 

😜

[ShellHead]

53 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 

True, but nutrition isn't.  Requiring someone to eat a variety of foods (meats, veggies, fruits, etc.) and vitamins on a regular basis would make things harder for sure.  But whether that would be fun or not is a personal thing.

We have a little bit of that in the buffs different foods grant, both the stamina increase and unique bonuses.

gives a bit of interesting management, when you’re a bit down on the hunger gauge do you eat higher end foods to keep the buffs rolling even though it’s overkill or do you top up with lower grade stuff and sacrifice the stronger buff?

what i find is that these kind of maintenance systems aren’t necessarily interesting in and of themselves but that they can create interesting dynamics with other systems.

[hotpoon]

17 hours ago, beHypE said:

Not saying the system is perfect or couldn't be enhanced but Valheim nailed the food mechanism pretty well if you ask me. You can just ignore it and run around with 25hp or you can use junk food for easy locations, but at the same time when @%$# hits the fan you better have robust meals in your belly. And quite frankly they could (and probably will) add many more recipes with more buffs than just total health/stamina values.

 

This is probably what is missing in 7 days to die. You can get by with bacon and eggs the whole game and there's really no incentive to diversify your food intake unless you're running out of eggs (or meat, but we all know that doesn't happen).

 

I couldn't disagree more. In my opinion Valheim's food system is the worst I've seen in any survival game.  Not only is it silly to me that you have to eat 3 different foods, but there comes a point where your health and stamina bar have shrunk quite a bit, but you can do nothing about it because your 3 foods aren't flashing yet. Really don't know what they were thinking, and you're the first person I've heard that enjoys it. Everyone I've spoken to thought it was ridiculous. I'm not saying you're a freak. We all like different things. It just still surprises me some times that the thing I absolutely detest is something someone else could love. I don't envy the devs trying to choose the best system. 

  

Personally I still think 7 Days to Die's old wellness system was the best. It gave an incentive not to die, and to cook the best tier meals.  My circle of friends enjoyed it and were surprised when the Pimps swapped it out. The new system is just ok. I can live with it. I think I would have been more accepting of it, if I hadn't experienced the old system first.

[meganoth]

8 hours ago, Roland said:

*was…

 

😜

 

 Jokes are usually killed with explanations, but this quip is in need of one

 

10 hours ago, theFlu said:

Complexity in building? You shovel some mats, maybe show them to a magical Mixer, and then stack blocks on one another..? There's no complexity there. And why would there be, it's just a mandatory part of a base-building game?

 

(It's about 90% joke, don't get yer panties in a twist... )

 

Which still leaves 10% to explain 😁. Nah not really, I'm 90% joking as well 😆

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Maharin said:

 

True, but nutrition isn't.  Requiring someone to eat a variety of foods (meats, veggies, fruits, etc.) and vitamins on a regular basis would make things harder for sure.  But whether that would be fun or not is a personal thing.

 

Instead of one one-dimensional bars this would create 3 one-dimensional bars side by side, not 3 dimensions. 😉

Edited June 11, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

 Jokes are usually killed with explanations, but this quip is in need of one

Madmole recently talked about simplifying building by removing some of the intermediary block upgrade steps. 
 

so complexity was in building.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Madmole recently talked about simplifying building by removing some of the intermediary block upgrade steps. 
 

so complexity was in building.

 

Ok, got it. As that was a future change it wasn't on my list of vintage features. But you already live in our future, wise sage with the password to A20 😉

 

[saltychipmunk]

7 hours ago, hotpoon said:

 

I couldn't disagree more. In my opinion Valheim's food system is the worst I've seen in any survival game.  Not only is it silly to me that you have to eat 3 different foods, but there comes a point where your health and stamina bar have shrunk quite a bit, but you can do nothing about it because your 3 foods aren't flashing yet. Really don't know what they were thinking, and you're the first person I've heard that enjoys it. Everyone I've spoken to thought it was ridiculous. I'm not saying you're a freak. We all like different things. It just still surprises me some times that the thing I absolutely detest is something someone else could love. I don't envy the devs trying to choose the best system. 

  

Personally I still think 7 Days to Die's old wellness system was the best. It gave an incentive not to die, and to cook the best tier meals.  My circle of friends enjoyed it and were surprised when the Pimps swapped it out. The new system is just ok. I can live with it. I think I would have been more accepting of it, if I hadn't experienced the old system first.

 

I enjoy valheim's system WAY more than most food mechanics in other survival games. I think most people don't like it because they are not used to having to deal with a food system that actually matters.

 

the forest, subnautica, ark , conan exiles .. rust.. 50 other games... etc.  it really did not matter . just carry 50 pork chops  and scarf a bunch down when ever you start taking damage over time.  I can comfortably say that food could have been removed from every single one of them without really impacting much. 

 

As for the old wellness system.  The problem with the old wellness system was that it factored in death.  You die and suddenly you respawn less healthy. Which means it was a system that worked perfectly fine .. until you have one night where you died a few times and then if felt like a dumpster full exclusively of sewage on fire. 

 

They probably could have saved that system if they just removed the death penalty and made it more reactive to the type of food players had eaten instead.. but then that is already closer to valheim anyway. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by saltychipmunk (see edit history)

[Raina Gamingmagex]

I love the sheer amount of things you can do in this game I like to think that since the world just went up and smoke basically in this universe you're free to do what you want when you want to take over someone's house and make it yours I just love the freedom you've given everyone. A lot of games out there but they don't give you this much freedom. I love the new weapons . This to me is one of the better if not the best updates you've done. Long story short it's awesome have a good day.