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Pichii

Vehicles are going to take more food to drive?

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How does this make any sense at all to have food usage increased from default when in vehicles?
Not needed mechanically in-game nor does it make any sense IRL.
The vulture buffs are going to handle vehicle issues in general. This was a double nerf that just isnt needed.

My men can eat only the finest food- my tanks need gas.
-General Patton

I know you guys wana lock us in the stone age longer so might I suggest a vehicle mesh change?

Flintstone-screencap.jpg

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Posted (edited)

This does make a lot of sense IRL. Do you stop digesting food IRL when you drive? Or do anything else? Obviously not, after 8 hours you are definitely hungry again. Even if you do absolutely nothing.

 

Come on, test it if you don't believe me. Sit around for the next 8 hours without food and then tell me what you feel. 😉

 

The only thing still unrealistic is that you don't use any food while standing still (but this is deliberate).

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, that´s so weird. Instead of making food more scarce and give the survival part a bit more love, they come up with unlogic things like that. Smells like lazyness from a mile away imo.  Meh.

 

@meganoth But you need more food while driving than when you walk now. That is the part that makes absolutly no sense.

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

This does make a lot of sense IRL. Do you stop digesting food IRL when you drive? Or do anything else? Obviously not, after 8 hours you are definitely hungry again. Even if you do absolutely nothing.

 

Come on, test it if you don't believe me. Sit around for the next 8 hours without food and then tell me what you feel. 😉

 

The only thing still unrealistic is that you don't use any food while standing still (but this is deliberate).

 

Do note; raising food consumption above default....

 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, meganoth said:

This does make a lot of sense IRL. Do you stop digesting food IRL when you drive?

You don't stop burning food while driving, right. But the patchnotes say you now user MORE food when driving. The question then is: more than what?

 

So on the other hand, if you don't burn food while standing still, why should you do when sitting in a car?

If you explicitely mention that you stop consuming food while just standing, imho it should be changed to have a base consumption that always hits. And then you burn the same amount of food both when standing still and while driving.

Edited by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

What makes sense to me:

  • Zero metabolism while standing still (in vehicle or not) - prevents AFK starvation*
  • Walking-level metabolism while pedaling the bike at normal speed
  • Running-level metabolism while pedaling the bike at high speed
  • Walking-level metabolism while moving in any other vehicle

What would not make sense to me:

  • Higher than walking-level metabolism in a motorized vehicle, as some way to create a [distance traveled] <-> [food sink] tradeoff

 

That said (edit: by meganoth; see next post), it was stated in another thread that in A18 there is zero metabolism in any vehicle including while moving. That is a bug and metabolism should be increased from zero. Perhaps that is what the patch note means, and we are misinterpreting 'increase' to mean 'increase from an already non-zero amount'.

 

*There is an argument to be had about whether this needs to be prevented; I'm not taking a side in that

Edited by Boidster (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Liesel Weppen said:

You don't stop burning food while driving, right. But the patchnotes say you now user MORE food when driving. The question then is: more than what?

 

So on the other hand, if you don't burn food while standing still, why should you do when sitting in a car?

If you explicitely mention that you stop consuming food while just standing, imho it should be changed to have a base consumption that always hits. And then you burn the same amount of food both when standing still and while driving.

As I said zero consumption while standing around is for gameplay reasons that trump realism. It is giving beginners that stand around while reading in the GUI or in wikis about basic stuff you already know by heart some leeway. This is deliberatly non-realistic.

 

@pApA^LeGBa: If a gentle walk consumes less food than driving, that might or might be grounds for discussion. But the counter-argument is that driving on a road with lots of potholes or driving cross-country is much more taxing. Maybe watch the old movie "Hatari" to see how arduous that can get. 

Anyway I have heard that both have a very low consumption so I don't know if the difference is really important enough to talk about. Before I don't see the values from XML or have played it in action this is a tempest in a teapot IMHO.

 

Same goes for overanalyzing patchnotes ('more', more than what? Maybe just more than before)

 

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

 Smells like lazyness from a mile away imo.  Meh.

 

Hey, I took a shower this morning!

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

As I said zero consumption while standing around is for gameplay reasons that trump realism. It is giving beginners that stand around while reading in the GUI or in wikis about basic stuff you already know by heart some leeway. This is deliberatly non-realistic.

 

@pApA^LeGBa: If a gentle walk consumes less food than driving, that might or might be grounds for discussion. But the counter-argument is that driving on a road with lots of potholes or driving cross-country is much more taxing. Maybe watch the old movie "Hatari" to see how arduous that can get. 

Anyway I have heard that both have a very low consumption so I don't know if the difference is really important enough to talk about. Before I don't see the values from XML or have played it in action this is a tempest in a teapot IMHO.

 

Same goes for overanalyzing patchnotes ('more', more than what? Maybe just more than before)

 

 

So we use more food instead of gas?
I still dont see the logic even from mechanical standpoints in the game.
Im not at all arguing in favor of having it cost NO food, im simply saying its not needed mechanically to increase food consumption more than default. You dont burn EXTRA calories driving any more than you do standing around converting oxygen into carbon dioxide.

Mechanically, itd make sense to use more more gas if you wanted to limit it like that...
Costing you more food than default just because youre behind the wheel? ... Isnt that pretty much the point of vehicles besides speed? So you can travel further in a day without being so taxed?

This methodogy is just very very odd.

Is this just a misunderstanding and were actually just raiding food cost while driving TO default?

Edited by Pichii (see edit history)

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3 minutes ago, meganoth said:

As I said zero consumption while standing around is for gameplay reasons that trump realism. It is giving beginners that stand around while reading in the GUI or in wikis about basic stuff you already know by heart some leeway. This is deliberatly non-realistic.

Ok, got that. Under this argument it makes at least little sense that food is consumed while driving. However it should still be less than while walking.

 

And i understand that they want to make the game more accessible for beginners. However that makes the game less interesting for "experts". Not especially for that no-food-use-while-standing but in general. You can see that for a lot of game series... finally they got more players, but the experts leave them more and more, because they are becoming to casual.

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2 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Ok, got that. Under this argument it makes at least little sense that food is consumed while driving. However it should still be less than while walking.

 

And i understand that they want to make the game more accessible for beginners. However that makes the game less interesting for "experts". Not especially for that no-food-use-while-standing but in general. You can see that for a lot of game series... finally they got more players, but the experts leave them more and more, because they are becoming to casual.

Hear hear.

I think it was just an unspecific patch note and that they are increasing food cost to default when driving which is perfectly reasonable.

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1 minute ago, Pichii said:

I think it was just an unspecific patch note and that they are increasing food cost to default when driving which is perfectly reasonable.

I didn't even notice that no food is conusmed while standing still. I usually don't go afk for long and if i do, i take a look if i have enough food to survive a little afk. I played dozens of other survival games, and they do consume food while standing still. Iirc even minecraft did this. How could new players just survive this? ;)

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The general theme of new players is this:
Spawn into game
Walk around for 5min
Die
Respawn
Die
Respawn
Die
Respawn
Die
Respawn
Die
Exit Game.

x'D
They do not get to live. This is 7 days to die not 7 days to frolic gayly thru a field.

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Posted (edited)

I used to drive cross country for a living. I needed a lot less food in a 10 hour driving shift than I did working 8 hours in a warehouse or other jobs. And some of the roads were absolutely horrible with pot holes big enough to just about knock you out of your seat if it wasn't for the seat belts. 

 

EDIT: Ok, so I did the thing I hate. I replied without reading ALL the posts which make my above statement not necessary. Since I can't seem to delete it, I guess it's stuck here lol

Edited by Fenris (see edit history)

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35 minutes ago, Pichii said:

The general theme of new players is this:
Spawn into game
Walk around for 5min
Die
Respawn
Die
Respawn
Die
Respawn
Die
Respawn
Die
Exit Game.

If this is true, they don't even have a chance to starve anyway. They will die long before. They don't even need to find food, because you respawn with full fullness everytime 😛

 

Have you played Doom? Did they make it easier, just because some people stand still like frozen while shooting and wonder why they are just dying?

If such players are not capable of dealing with a kind of game, it just may be the wrong game for them.

That's exactly what i ment: If you make a game as easy that every @%$*#! noob can handle it, you make it inevitably boring for more advanced players. And this issue can't be always/fully dealt by just "difficulty settings" without destroying the gameplay (like just give Zs more health).

 

But ok, i don't want to derail the thread any further. ;)

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Posted (edited)

It´s more about that they rather adjust food consumption than actually giving the survival part more love. It´s not like food is any propblem at all. And that has nothing to do with how many hours someone has. You just need to do buried supplies quests from the very beginning and you are good.  There might be a small issue on day one with food if the trader has no buried supplies quest (wich hardly happens, and even if, just do a another quest and you can buy food) or you are too far away from the trader.

 

Now you might say "well play without trader then" but than i have a huge problem with brass if i don´t do quests. Man i hate the fact that you can smelt tokens. Remove that again pls and lower the cost for bulletcasings. Then we can do no trader style playtroughs and at least have a bit of a fight for food.

 

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

If this is true, they don't even have a chance to starve anyway. They will die long before. They don't even need to find food, because you respawn with full fullness everytime 😛

 

Have you played Doom? Did they make it easier, just because some people stand still like frozen while shooting and wonder why they are just dying?

If such players are not capable of dealing with a kind of game, it just may be the wrong game for them.

That's exactly what i ment: If you make a game as easy that every @%$*#! noob can handle it, you make it inevitably boring for more advanced players. And this issue can't be always/fully dealt by just "difficulty settings" without destroying the gameplay (like just give Zs more health).

 

But ok, i don't want to derail the thread any further. ;)

Since experienced players don't stand idle around this is absolutely meaningless to those players. Doesn't make it any easier nor boring. And noob players will get punished anyway if they stand around for a day. Because they wasted precious time.

 

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On 6/28/2020 at 6:03 AM, meganoth said:

Since experienced players don't stand idle around this is absolutely meaningless to those players. Doesn't make it any easier nor boring.

That wasn't related directly to this topic.

 

On 6/27/2020 at 9:52 PM, pApA^LeGBa said:

Now you might say "well play without trader then" but than i have a huge problem with brass if i don´t do quests. Man i hate the fact that you can smelt tokens. Remove that again pls and lower the cost for bulletcasings. Then we can do no trader style playtroughs and at least have a bit of a fight for food.

Hmm, last game we melted dukes first on... day 60? (On 8K map, still 2 cities in the wasteland untouched)

You just need to move around. If you don't just stay within 2km around you're horde base (which would be still an entire 4k map if built in center) you will find a lot of brass.

Imho the problem is, that will not work forever. A 4K map is looted from all brass relatively quickly and then there is nothing left and it doesn't respawn. That's the reason why melting dukes is neede. Otherwise a playthrough with no traders ends up in "look how long the brass lasts", so it definetely will not allow endless play.

Lowering bullet casing costs just makes the time longer but doesn't solve the problem.

It would need other mechanics to make this possible. Brass mineable like other ores, respawning cars, or whatever.

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On 6/27/2020 at 9:26 PM, Fenris said:

I used to drive cross country for a living. I needed a lot less food in a 10 hour driving shift than I did working 8 hours in a warehouse or other jobs. And some of the roads were absolutely horrible with pot holes big enough to just about knock you out of your seat if it wasn't for the seat belts.

And that's exactly what we are modeling.

Some food drain while driving (which is still less than walking/sprinting the same distance),

a noticeable food drain while speeding (which does require more effort than chill cruising),

manual labor still using a lot more food than all of the above.

 

People are freaking out over some ridiculous food drain that they are imagining.

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Posted (edited)

@Liesel Weppen How many Z´s per player in hordenight? And on wich difficulty. We have 16 per player on Warrior. First few weeks are fine. But then we need a ton of bullets every week. Gotta say that we don´t kill screamers on sight, we let them always call someone. Unless it´s after 21:00 on horde day. We don´t do traps tough, as the shared XP don´t work on them. Only electric fence.

 

We do go everywhere on the map. Even early on we try to spread out as much as possible with our lootruns.  Dishong tower got us 1000 brass. That´s not even a stack of 7.62mm. Week 4 and none of us has the book for doors...

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

This is somewhat off topic but it does involve vehicles....but when crafting a vehicle, for example the mini bike, does it matter what quality battery it's built with? 

 

My bike seems pretty slow, not much faster than the bicycle at full pedal. Plus it's loud & kind of annoying. I built it with just a level 1/tier 1 battery. I was a little disappointed in it. 

This is alpha 18.4 of course. 

Edited by Outlaw_187 (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Gazz said:

And that's exactly what we are modeling.

Some food drain while driving (which is still less than walking/sprinting the same distance),

a noticeable food drain while speeding (which does require more effort than chill cruising),

manual labor still using a lot more food than all of the above.

 

People are freaking out over some ridiculous food drain that they are imagining.

Yeah, that's the other reason I was going to delete my post. After posting I thought "Why am I forming an opinion over a version I haven't played or tested yet?".

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1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Liesel Weppen How many Z´s per player in hordenight? And on wich difficulty. We have 16 per player on Warrior. First few weeks are fine. But then we need a ton of bullets every week.

Just 3 players, i don't know the difficulty setting.

You get a map faster empty with 16 players, but just lowering the bulletcasing costs will not help you that much. Brass would still be ending, as no ressources are respawning without dukes for quests.

 

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Dishong tower got us 1000 brass. That´s not even a stack of 7.62mm. Week 4 and none of us has the book for doors...

Main source for brass are the radiators from cars, a/cs that may also drop radiators when wrenched and heaters in POIs that also give radiators. The candle lighters in churches are also good. The amount of brass you find directly as loot is negligible, so even loot respawn won't help. So imho smaller non-dungeon POIs give you more brass faster (especially if the poi has radiators). Dishong maybe the wrong POI when looking for brass... i couldn't test, RWG hasn't spawned any sykscraper on any map i generated for A18.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, we were lucky with dishong. Yeah, we wrenched all cars, get all radiators and such. But we do need tokens way before day 60. We do wrench everything that gives you brass. On day 28 we got a ton of greenies and demolishers. 3000 rounds per player weren´t enough.

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

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I can see what they are trying to do, they don't want vehicles to be a safe haven in a survivalist game.

I would rather they make vehicles more costly instead, either make gas rarer or drain faster.

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