Electricity and more

[Lein123]

With current electrical system we cannot make AND,OR,NOT gate so my question is will electrical system ever be changed so we could make it?

[strask]

9 minutes ago, Dethar said:

Its in Unity engine. So if Unity changes it in new version TFP can upgrade to it.

This is exactly correct. It also may help to bear in mind, however that even if/when Unity fixes it, such upgrades are not always trivial. Sometimes in order to upgrade Unity, you have to change many things  in your program, like Kerbal Space Program did on one occcasion. So, depending on the details, it might come someday, or never.

26 minutes ago, Lein123 said:

With current electrical system we cannot make AND,OR,NOT gate so my question is will electrical system ever be changed so we could make it?

I too have wished for logic gates. Would enable all sorts of crazy youtube videos (just search for minecraft redstone videos for examples) which would help the game get more popular come the end of early access, I expect.

 

It occurs to me that if logic gates ever do get implemented, it could just be on the Shapes menu of the Switch object.

[Sigil_Thane]

44 minutes ago, strask said:

It occurs to me that if logic gates ever do get implemented, it could just be on the Shapes menu of the Switch object.

Possibly, but unlike switches that have an input and an output, AND OR and even NOT would require a secondary input.

 

AND and OR would work like this:

Input A     Input B
       \   /
         Y
         |
       Result

 

...but NOT would need to work like this:

Signal      Power
       \   /
         Y
         |
       Result

otherwise you could have a NOT immediately after the power supply which you just leave off for infinite electricity.

[hiemfire]

I'd rather just have the ability to toggle the powered vs unpowered state of doors on the doors themselves (so be able to set some to open when powered, others to close when powered) than add in a full on binary logic system.

[Sigil_Thane]

2 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

I'd rather just have the ability to toggle the powered vs unpowered state of doors on the doors themselves (so be able to set some to open when powered, others to close when powered) than add in a full on binary logic system.

That would be cool, but logically power should be only required to hold doors closed (or Locked) and bridges up... Open (Unlocked) and Down are both are stable states of being that require no resistance to change. 

 

(...and yes, I know that's not how the doors and bridges work currently.)

[Adam the Waster]

yall ever fell like a bag of mashed potatoes after doing alot of yard work? 

[hiemfire]

5 minutes ago, Sigil_Thane said:

That would be cool, but logically power should be only required to hold doors closed (or Locked) and bridges up... Open (Unlocked) and Down are both are stable states of being that require no resistance to change. 

 

(...and yes, I know that's not how the doors and bridges work currently.)

Logically? In your interpretation of how the game's "logic" function maybe. Logically irl power is only needed to change the state of a powered door or powered drawbridge from open to closed or closed to open (motors only need power to move the doors/drawbridges). While they are open or closed they need no power to remain so, but instead rely on other physical aspects of their design to do so. Locks themselves can, and are commonly, designed either to engage while powered or unpowered depending on the needs of the location.

[Sigil_Thane]

1 minute ago, Adam the Waster said:

yall ever fell like a bag of mashed potatoes after doing alot of yard work? 

You mean do I feel hot, squishy, and buttery? not usually.

1 minute ago, hiemfire said:

Logically? In your interpretation of how the game's "logic" function maybe. Logically irl power is only needed to change the state of a powered door or powered drawbridge from open to closed or closed to open (motors only need power to move the doors/drawbridges). While they are open or closed they need no power to remain so, but instead rely on other physical aspects of their design to do so. Locks themselves can, and are commonly, designed either to engage while powered or unpowered depending on the needs of the location.

I would direct you to the concept of Maglocks for security.

[hiemfire]

7 minutes ago, Sigil_Thane said:

I would direct you to the concept of Maglocks for security.

I'm aware of them... They aren't the only locking system. Locking systems that engage when the power to them is turned off also exist and are used for places that it is preferred people generally don't have access to even when power goes out but needs to be stronger than or have the mechanisim less accessible than a simple turn key or basic dead bolt.

[Sigil_Thane]

20 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

I'm aware of them... They aren't the only locking system. Locking systems that engage when the power to them is turned off also exist and are used for places that it is preferred people generally don't have access to even when power goes out but needs to be stronger than or have the mechanism less accessible than a simple turn key or basic dead bolt.

I also am aware of locking systems that do not require power to stay engaged, but functionally how is this different from a regular non-powered door? I was never arguing that such doors should not exist, just that powered doors that stay locked, and powered drawbridges that stay raised with power would be (marginally) simpler to create.

[hiemfire]

31 minutes ago, Sigil_Thane said:

I also am aware of locking systems that do not require power to stay engaged, but functionally how is this different from a regular non-powered door? I was never arguing that such doors should not exist, just that powered doors that stay locked, and powered drawbridges that stay raised with power would be (marginally) simpler to create.

Instead of adding an entirely new subgroup of doors, or peripherally the suggestion by someone else about adding logic gates (and the required rework to how the power system functions that you touched on in response), to the build menu they can take advantage of the Hold "E" radial menu to add an option to toggle a powered door's functionality from open/lowered while powered to closed/raised while powered and have it restricted to only the person who placed it can toggle the functionality in the same manner that only the person who placed a crafted door or chest can unlock it.

[nemo888]

3 hours ago, Sigil_Thane said:

Possibly, but unlike switches that have an input and an output, AND OR and even NOT would require a secondary input.

 

AND and OR would work like this:

Input A     Input B
       \   /
         Y
         |
       Result

 

...but NOT would need to work like this:

Signal      Power
       \   /
         Y
         |
       Result

otherwise you could have a NOT immediately after the power supply which you just leave off for infinite electricity.

Looks like a flux capacitor -> gets my vote   

And you probably could combine 2 of the AND/OR gates to get a NOT. 

An awesome idea regardless

 

 

 

[Sigil_Thane]

33 minutes ago, nemo888 said:

Looks like a flux capacitor -> gets my vote   

And you probably could combine 2 of the AND/OR gates to get a NOT. 

An awesome idea regardless

Interesting information I just found on Wikipedia, not strictly related to 7DTD, except possibly as a tangent:

Quote

Charles Sanders Peirce (during 1880–81) showed that NOR gates alone (or alternatively NAND gates alone) can be used to reproduce the functions of all the other logic gates, but his work on it was unpublished until 1933.[16] The first published proof was by Henry M. Sheffer in 1913, so the NAND logical operation is sometimes called Sheffer stroke; the logical NOR is sometimes called Peirce's arrow. Consequently, these gates are sometimes called universal logic gates.

 

[Tahaan]

16 hours ago, Sigil_Thane said:

Ooo... this gave me a interesting idea for a "Special Infected" who, when is within a certain range makes the lighting fade out a bit more, so that Outside would fade to inside ambient, and inside ambient to maybe a darker set still. I would hope the effect could not stack however or late gamestage horde nights could be hard as hell.

 

Additionally, does the transition away from Gamma mean that the issues with maps being blown out bright (likely due to the Gamma system) has been solved?

 

And some "glow-in-the-dark" ore blocks at random underground.

 

16 hours ago, Sigil_Thane said:

Possibly, but unlike switches that have an input and an output, AND OR and even NOT would require a secondary input.

 

AND and OR would work like this:

Input A     Input B
       \   /
         Y
         |
       Result

 

...but NOT would need to work like this:

Signal      Power
       \   /
         Y
         |
       Result

otherwise you could have a NOT immediately after the power supply which you just leave off for infinite electricity.

Signal and power already goes over the same wire in the game.  Put two trigger plates or motion sensors in series and the power passes through when either is triggered.

[MajorMunchy]

16 hours ago, Sigil_Thane said:

Possibly, but unlike switches that have an input and an output, AND OR and even NOT would require a secondary input.

 

AND and OR would work like this:

Input A     Input B
       \   /
         Y
         |
       Result

 

...but NOT would need to work like this:

Signal      Power
       \   /
         Y
         |
       Result

otherwise you could have a NOT immediately after the power supply which you just leave off for infinite electricity.

Mising a few

But yes, adding a shape menu to a switch would be amazing. If they added logic gates, I think people coudl mindlessly play Alpha whatever it is when it is introduced and no one would complain "when is the next alpha?" LOL IMO

[madmole]

On 6/14/2020 at 2:36 AM, Jost Amman said:

Only the elder brother can do that, don't you know? 😅

I wish it was just knuckle rubs back in the day... add swirlies, farts on the head, wrestling dummy, hurts donuts and bb gun victim to my resume. Its all good though todays cry baby generation could use some big brotherly love IMO.

[Matt 1977]

3 minutes ago, madmole said:

I wish it was just knuckle rubs back in the day... add swirlies, farts on the head, wrestling dummy, hurts donuts and bb gun victim to my resume. Its all good though todays cry baby generation could use some big brotherly love IMO.

Totally agree mate

[MechanicalLens]

21 minutes ago, madmole said:

I wish it was just knuckle rubs back in the day... add swirlies, farts on the head, wrestling dummy, hurts donuts and bb gun victim to my resume. Its all good though todays cry baby generation could use some big brotherly love IMO.

And people wondered why when I was growing up, why I often kept away from my fellow piers in school and shut myself away in offices to complete my work in the silence that comes with solitude. Even at the age of 5, and this was many years ago, and watching a TV program, when one of the characters said on screen, "I hate contests. You all win"... it left me with a bitter taste in my mouth. I'm definitely not claiming to be a tough guy by any means, but seeing how the majority of my generation are (Millennials), it makes my eyes roll. Lol

[Demonoid74]

3 hours ago, madmole said:

I wish it was just knuckle rubs back in the day... add swirlies, farts on the head, wrestling dummy, hurts donuts and bb gun victim to my resume. Its all good though todays cry baby generation could use some big brotherly love IMO.

Did we have the same older brothers? lol 

We used to have BB gun wars , roman candle fights and used to smack each other with big wooden sticks with bicycle grips attached to them for swords lol...

[MechanicalLens]

12 minutes ago, Demonoid74 said:

Did we have the same older brothers? lol 

We used to have BB gun wars , roman candle fights and used to smack each other with big wooden sticks with bicycle grips attached to them for swords lol...

Meanwhile in my childhood all we had were cap guns, which have since been banned. Lol Tree houses as well, on a side note.

 

According to my younger sibling, if you're in school and you're out on a hike with your class, the act of simply picking up a stick will get your parents called and the child sent home, with a possible suspension and staff meeting afterwards as well. At the rate we're going, simply looking at a stick will get you thrown in the slammer. Lol

[Demonoid74]

30 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Meanwhile in my childhood all we had were cap guns, which have since been banned. Lol Tree houses as well, on a side note.

 

According to my younger sibling, if you're in school and you're out on a hike with your class, the act of simply picking up a stick will get your parents called and the child sent home, with a possible suspension and staff meeting afterwards as well. At the rate we're going, simply looking at a stick will get you thrown in the slammer. Lol

 

[MechanicalLens]

8 minutes ago, Demonoid74 said:

 

A lesson to all the daring adventurers out there: grabbing a stick will get you sent home. Touching wood is a no-no.

 

Am I really taking after Snowdog these days? My goodness how I have fallen...

[Sigil_Thane]

12 hours ago, Tahaan said:

Signal and power already goes over the same wire in the game.  Put two trigger plates or motion sensors in series and the power passes through when either is triggered.

 

I agree that Signal and power currently use the same wire in game now, but if you use a single input wire for a NOT gate you can create an infinite power system by leaving a empty battery bank inline to a NOT switch and then to a 2nd battery bank, since the NOT gate is getting no power from bank A it puts out "NOT no power", or just Power to bank B.

 

implementing a "signal wire" is needed to prevent that exploit.

[Sigil_Thane]

12 hours ago, MajorMunchy said:

Mising a few

But yes, adding a shape menu to a switch would be amazing. If they added logic gates, I think people coudl mindlessly play Alpha whatever it is when it is introduced and no one would complain "when is the next alpha?" LOL IMO

OK, I opted for just the "simple gates", excluding the NOR and NAND gates because they are basically just a NOT after an OR gate, and a NOT after an AND gate.

 

...you could also say I forgot XOR, but we can construct an XOR gate circuit directly using 2 AND gates, one OR and one NOT gates. 

...there really isn't such a thing as a XAND gate since in theory it would have the same exact requirements and result as XOR.

...there also isn't an XNOT since NOT is a unary operator that negates its single operand (basically it just flips a boolean value to its opposite) and as such it cannot support any notion of exclusivity."

[Tahaan]

3 hours ago, Sigil_Thane said:

 

I agree that Signal and power currently use the same wire in game now, but if you use a single input wire for a NOT gate you can create an infinite power system by leaving a empty battery bank inline to a NOT switch and then to a 2nd battery bank, since the NOT gate is getting no power from bank A it puts out "NOT no power", or just Power to bank B.

 

implementing a "signal wire" is needed to prevent that exploit.

The power source, eg generator, gives out both power and a default signal.
The Not gate passes the power and the inverted signal along.  It does not use power to infer a signal state, nor create infinite power.
Doors etc uses the signal to decide whether to turn on or off.  
So no infinite power.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Having said all of that I would much rather just have the doors, draw-bridges, etc have an option to change their default state.