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TheProphet

How bad is it for bunker lovers these days? (Haven't played since like Alpha 16)

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I haven't played the game since like Alpha 16. I used to love this game in PVP, surviving not only zombies but players, and we used to create underground bunkers and live there, it was a lot of hard work but paid off. It was also a thrill discovering other people's bunkers. Unfortunately, I heard that they were going to nerf this and ruin the fun for us so we left. Is it as bad as they said? how's the gameplay these days? I was really pumped for the massive new map sizes, but if we can't get our pickaxes and get to work in underground bunkers it's not as cool. That's the whole point of destructive environments IMO. All other zombie survival games don't have it.

Edited by TheProphet (see edit history)

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It depends on how you feel about digging zombies. I’m guessing you’re against them and that allowing zombies to dig is what you meant by nerfing the underground. Things are pretty much the same in that department.

 

If your bunker is at bedrock beneath a mountain then you are pretty safe and only are threatened if you stay down there on blood moon night. If you want your base to stay hidden from other players you would probably have to spend blood moon night at a different location.

 

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It depends on how you feel about digging zombies. I’m guessing you’re against them and that allowing zombies to dig is what you meant by nerfing the underground. Things are pretty much the same in that department.

 

If your bunker is at bedrock beneath a mountain then you are pretty safe and only are threatened if you stay down there on blood moon night. If you want your base to stay hidden from other players you would probably have to spend blood moon night at a different location.

 

I'll give it a try and see what happens. In the browser, can you filter maps by size? I want to play in the biggest possible map in a PVP server.

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It depends on how you feel about digging zombies. I’m guessing you’re against them and that allowing zombies to dig is what you meant by nerfing the underground. Things are pretty much the same in that department.

 

If your bunker is at bedrock beneath a mountain then you are pretty safe and only are threatened if you stay down there on blood moon night. If you want your base to stay hidden from other players you would probably have to spend blood moon night at a different location.

 

Honestly? I wish the game had sound dithering between blocks, like if I am underground by 10 blocks zombies on the ground above shouldn't be able to hear me when I just walk around down there. A sound detecting range decrease would work as well, as IMO they can detect even the tiniest sounds from FAR to far away.

 

As for the map size, if your thinking to play anything higher than 8192 you better have at least 16 gb of ram.

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It depends on how you feel about digging zombies. I’m guessing you’re against them and that allowing zombies to dig is what you meant by nerfing the underground. Things are pretty much the same in that department.

 

If your bunker is at bedrock beneath a mountain then you are pretty safe and only are threatened if you stay down there on blood moon night. If you want your base to stay hidden from other players you would probably have to spend blood moon night at a different location.

 

quite disagree with you on that. I'm a bunker lover myself and even when building a base very deep i get zombies (especially wandering hordes) getting to my base while I'm digging. If i have a base they will attack it while I'm underground and can't hear it. Only way I found after several tries is to use the sloppy-side bases and as it's seen as the easiest path for a zombie, they won't dig around my base. Even for an underground entrance for my vehicule to get it into my base safely without wasting too much space on top, i had to build an underground drawbridge to access to the rest of my base, otherwise zombies were hitting on the garage door outside my base before I did.

 

Getting a bunker with this AI is terrible and that's too bad in one of the only game that allows you to build cool bunkers !

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Honestly? I wish the game had sound dithering between blocks, like if I am underground by 10 blocks zombies on the ground above shouldn't be able to hear me when I just walk around down there. A sound detecting range decrease would work as well, as IMO they can detect even the tiniest sounds from FAR to far away.

 

As for the map size, if your thinking to play anything higher than 8192 you better have at least 16 gb of ram.

 

Yeah, it's pretty dumb that zombies have basically infinite Y axis sensing. It's so unrealistic, feels and looks so dumb seeing zombies digging straight down as if it was Minecraft. But apparently the developer in charge of the vision of the game is stubborn into this being a positive. History is filled with idiotic game design decisions because of someone stubborn on top, what can you do? I guess during the blood moon special day I would understand that zombies go insane and have this special ability, but during the normal days is just over the top and nonsense. They should act as regular zombies so its not out of place.

 

As far as 16gb of ram, i've got 32gb but anyway, as far as I know, a bigger map does not require any special kind of increase of hardware output for players, only for those generating the maps, and it would only take once (the first time you join) to load the map, then its just business as usual, so could create some huge map and just have to wait longer the first time you join but gameplay wouldn't be impacted which was the whole point of this new method, correct me if im wrong.

 

 

 

 

quite disagree with you on that. I'm a bunker lover myself and even when building a base very deep i get zombies (especially wandering hordes) getting to my base while I'm digging. If i have a base they will attack it while I'm underground and can't hear it. Only way I found after several tries is to use the sloppy-side bases and as it's seen as the easiest path for a zombie, they won't dig around my base. Even for an underground entrance for my vehicule to get it into my base safely without wasting too much space on top, i had to build an underground drawbridge to access to the rest of my base, otherwise zombies were hitting on the garage door outside my base before I did.

 

Getting a bunker with this AI is terrible and that's too bad in one of the only game that allows you to build cool bunkers !

 

Yes, what differentiates this game from the other million zombie survival games is that you can actually dig underground, and that is what I would do in real life in a zombie scenario, me and my friends have engineering backgrounds and can actually create bunkers underground, so we would definitely explore this area rather and live there. It's a lot of work digging and building it but it pays off and it's cooler than regular bases. You can go on Youtube and search for people making bunkers in real life, it can actually be done so it's not some unrealistic Minecraft thing, it fits in so well with the survival experience, and to ruin this side of the gameplay is to ruin what sets you appart from the other survival games.

Edited by TheProphet (see edit history)
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They don't have infinite y-axis sensing. You can get deep enough to be beyond their sensing range but it has to be where the surface is at a high altitude so that the distance is far enough down to bedrock. Hence, I said dig to bedrock under a mountain.

 

I disagree that digging zombies ruins what differentiates this game from other games. It enhances that aspect. Why have destructible terrain that is completely impervious to the enemy mobs of the game that live in it? The only reason that it would ruin the experience is for PVP play where you don't want zombies giving away your location. But this game isn't primarily designed as a PvP game. In a co-op and single player game you can still build elaborate bunkers and then have to defend them.

 

If all you want is to build something elaborate and amazing underground and have it be untouched then turn off the zombies and have your building game.

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They don't have infinite y-axis sensing. You can get deep enough to be beyond their sensing range but it has to be where the surface is at a high altitude so that the distance is far enough down to bedrock. Hence, I said dig to bedrock under a mountain.

 

I disagree that digging zombies ruins what differentiates this game from other games. It enhances that aspect. Why have destructible terrain that is completely impervious to the enemy mobs of the game that live in it? The only reason that it would ruin the experience is for PVP play where you don't want zombies giving away your location. But this game isn't primarily designed as a PvP game. In a co-op and single player game you can still build elaborate bunkers and then have to defend them.

 

If all you want is to build something elaborate and amazing underground and have it be untouched then turn off the zombies and have your building game.

 

If you make living underground something useless compared to having a base, then nobody lives underground = the feature is rendered pointless.

 

Survival games that don't take PvP as serious as PvE end up failing because no matter what you implement, the random human factor is what keeps the gameplay going endlessly.

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If you make living underground something useless compared to having a base, then nobody lives underground = the feature is rendered pointless.

 

Survival games that don't take PvP as serious as PvE end up failing because no matter what you implement, the random human factor is what keeps the gameplay going endlessly.

 

It is not useless and you can have the EXACT same experience as before - just disable zombies.

 

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If you make living underground something useless compared to having a base, then nobody lives underground = the feature is rendered pointless.

 

Survival games that don't take PvP as serious as PvE end up failing because no matter what you implement, the random human factor is what keeps the gameplay going endlessly.

 

That's entirely untrue. MOST games do not focus on PvP over PvE and the Pimps have explicitly said that PvP is not the focus of their development and they're not programming around it. So if you think that, this might already be not your game.

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They don't have infinite y-axis sensing. You can get deep enough to be beyond their sensing range but it has to be where the surface is at a high altitude so that the distance is far enough down to bedrock. Hence, I said dig to bedrock under a mountain.

 

I disagree that digging zombies ruins what differentiates this game from other games. It enhances that aspect. Why have destructible terrain that is completely impervious to the enemy mobs of the game that live in it? The only reason that it would ruin the experience is for PVP play where you don't want zombies giving away your location. But this game isn't primarily designed as a PvP game. In a co-op and single player game you can still build elaborate bunkers and then have to defend them.

 

If all you want is to build something elaborate and amazing underground and have it be untouched then turn off the zombies and have your building game.

 

The problem is that I like building, but I like to do it in survival mode. And the problem is that when you don't do any special mistake, but you get zombies digging a big ass hole (that you can't fix anymore with ground that you dig with your shovel anywhere) just because of stupid AI, well it kinda ruins the game for nothing.

 

The new AI ruined the underground gameplay and I think it's too bad because there aren't many games like 7D2D that allow you this kind of underground gameplay.

 

The game allows you to build a full economy with a semi-underground base (you just need some ground place for your crops, and get oil / iron / etc from mining) which used to allow you a logical gameplay : looting during day and mining at night, and because of the AI I now prefer to spend my night outside in the danger instead of inside my mine, because it feels more safe outside where I can hear them, where is the logic in that ?

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The problem is that I like building, but I like to do it in survival mode. And the problem is that when you don't do any special mistake, but you get zombies digging a big ass hole (that you can't fix anymore with ground that you dig with your shovel anywhere) just because of stupid AI, well it kinda ruins the game for nothing.

 

The new AI ruined the underground gameplay and I think it's too bad because there aren't many games like 7D2D that allow you this kind of underground gameplay.

 

The game allows you to build a full economy with a semi-underground base (you just need some ground place for your crops, and get oil / iron / etc from mining) which used to allow you a logical gameplay : looting during day and mining at night, and because of the AI I now prefer to spend my night outside in the danger instead of inside my mine, because it feels more safe outside where I can hear them, where is the logic in that ?

 

But it's not ruined - dig your base under a mountain, and no zombies - except for the Blood Moon Zombies - will ever find it. You can even turn the Blood Moons off and still keep Zombies in the game, and your base will be 100% perfectly safe.

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Zombies don't do enough damage to threaten your base at night unless your ceiling is only 10-15 blocks deep. You can just ignore them and easily craft soil/gravel to patch the holes they make a couple times a week. Or just use some healthy blocks on top and repair them once in awhile.

 

A land claim block and fence combo will make it so that 99% of nights nothing will even get in range to hear you.

 

Or you can just get some turrets at ground level and kill everything before it even has a change to hear you.

 

Another effective system I found is to dig a nice long staircase for the zombies and an alternate hatch/ladder system for yourself. Have the stairs lead all the way down to your base but leave a one block opening at the end and they'll just always come to attack it. Then you can just come out and kill the zombie really quick when you hear it or even set up a junk/regular turret right in front of the hole and it'll do it automatically for you. I have found this method to make for even easier maintenance than an above ground base because there's only 4-5 blocks that they will ever damage and 90% of the time it's that same singular block with the hole above it.

 

If the only thing holding you back is the existence of zombies who will try to get at you at night and all you want is a bunker simulator at night and a zombie game during the day then just use the killall command in the console whenever you hear zombies. Using it 4-5 times a night will take a total of about 30 seconds of your time which seems like a good tradeoff if that's all you're interested in.

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If you make living underground something useless compared to having a base, then nobody lives underground = the feature is rendered pointless.

 

But people are living underground so the feature isn’t rendered pointless. I realize there is no way to convince you to like the fact that zombies can dig. But I like it and I play underground. There are going to be others like you and others like me and who gets to have their way? Presently the developers, themselves, are on my side but I do hope that they do make digging optional at some point.

 

Survival games that don't take PvP as serious as PvE end up failing because no matter what you implement, the random human factor is what keeps the gameplay going endlessly.

 

PvP players have been predicting the failure of this game for years because of its lack of focus on PVP and yet...A18 is the most popular that the game has ever been. PvP is important but this game has found a niche in which it can be successful as a SP and MP cooperative. PvP has not been nor will ever be critical for its success. That much has got to have been proven by now given that PvP was much better earlier in the game’s development and has gotten worse over time all while the game has been gaining more popularity.

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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It is not ruined. We do have our living base inside a mountain and while building it was a pain with the screamers showing up constantly, they never dug far enough to be a problem. Yes we had a lot of holes during the process and had to run pretty far to get rid of them, but they didn´t turn them mountain into swiss cheese. I think 10 blocks of dirt was the most they "dug" in. Screamers seem to give up if they can´t reach you fast enough. (Not that we tested this on purpose, we simply didn´t recognize them...) Quotation marks for dug because we technically aren´t underground.

 

Also do seperate your living base and your horde base. We only had them digging towards our living base because we aren´t really underground but in a mountain. If you have your living base underground they might ruin some blocks on the top level but they don´t dig really deep.

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Don't expect to be taken seriously when saying that building underground is ruined just because you can now be threatened. This is simply untrue.

 

However they still have to tweak zombie pathing so that zombies find paths in a greater vicinity and dig less to get to you. And personally, I would choose a different kind of threat for the underground other than digging zombies, so that underground gameplay is differentiated. But there doesn't seem to be any interest in that.

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It is not useless and you can have the EXACT same experience as before - just disable zombies.

 

Why would one disable zombies in a zombie survival themed game.

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Zombies don't do enough damage to threaten your base at night unless your ceiling is only 10-15 blocks deep. You can just ignore them and easily craft soil/gravel to patch the holes they make a couple times a week. Or just use some healthy blocks on top and repair them once in awhile.

 

A land claim block and fence combo will make it so that 99% of nights nothing will even get in range to hear you.

 

Or you can just get some turrets at ground level and kill everything before it even has a change to hear you.

 

Another effective system I found is to dig a nice long staircase for the zombies and an alternate hatch/ladder system for yourself. Have the stairs lead all the way down to your base but leave a one block opening at the end and they'll just always come to attack it. Then you can just come out and kill the zombie really quick when you hear it or even set up a junk/regular turret right in front of the hole and it'll do it automatically for you. I have found this method to make for even easier maintenance than an above ground base because there's only 4-5 blocks that they will ever damage and 90% of the time it's that same singular block with the hole above it.

 

If the only thing holding you back is the existence of zombies who will try to get at you at night and all you want is a bunker simulator at night and a zombie game during the day then just use the killall command in the console whenever you hear zombies. Using it 4-5 times a night will take a total of about 30 seconds of your time which seems like a good tradeoff if that's all you're interested in.

 

No, the point is making a zombie survival game that is somewhat realistic, this includes zombies not digging Minecraft troll mode on your bunker. Also, the point of having a bunker is being hidden, if you have to place obvious "there is people underground here" blocks on top of it it defeats the purpose.

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But people are living underground so the feature isn’t rendered pointless. I realize there is no way to convince you to like the fact that zombies can dig. But I like it and I play underground. There are going to be others like you and others like me and who gets to have their way? Presently the developers, themselves, are on my side but I do hope that they do make digging optional at some point.

 

 

 

PvP players have been predicting the failure of this game for years because of its lack of focus on PVP and yet...A18 is the most popular that the game has ever been. PvP is important but this game has found a niche in which it can be successful as a SP and MP cooperative. PvP has not been nor will ever be critical for its success. That much has got to have been proven by now given that PvP was much better earlier in the game’s development and has gotten worse over time all while the game has been gaining more popularity.

 

The game is still alpha On a long enough timeline, PVP is king.

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Sadly I stopped playing shortly after they reactivated zombie digging. I tried for a little while, but I just don't enjoy it as well.

I keep checking back to see if anything has changed.

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I normally live underground and haven't had any problems, even on horde nights. Make sure you dig through mostly rock, and go to bedrock. That's all there is to it.

On a horde day, you need a long tunnel to escape the diggers. Move maybe 25 yards when you think they're getting close, and they despawn. Rinse and repeat.

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I think the main complaint is that the zombies deface the surface and then other players can tell that there must be a base there. Digging zombies are another nail in the PvP coffin for those who want this game to be balanced and tuned for PvP gameplay.

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I personally think the vanilla settings of the game are off for both PvE and PvP.

 

You can easily tweak them to make it feel a lot better for PvE. For PvE I do the following.

- Reduce block damage on blood moons

- Put blood moon zombies on anything but sprint

 

These 2 settings already make it possible to bunker above ground without having to repair the entire base every horde night.

 

For PvP it's a different story. Better forget about balance and fairness in that aspect.

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Posted (edited)

 

No, the point is making a zombie survival game that is somewhat realistic, this includes zombies not digging Minecraft troll mode on your bunker. Also, the point of having a bunker is being hidden, if you have to place obvious "there is people underground here" blocks on top of it it defeats the purpose.

 

So you want bunkers that are un-discoverable to both players and zombies then? Again it sounds like you want bunker simulator while in the bunker and zombie/PVP game when outside the bunker. I'm not saying this is a bad thing but it seems like it's the type of game you want to play. That type of game is already possible, you could mod the zombies to change their noise detection radius, there are many mods like this out there already. Why not start a bunker-lovers server? Sounds like an interesting idea. But even with such a mod wouldn't you have to have an entrance somewhere on the surface anyway? Just be choosey with where you build your bunker and make that singular entrance one that zombies can go into as well. If you allow zombies a way down they will take it instead of digging. You don't need a wealth of creativity to be able to design such an entrance.

Edited by uselessjunkaccount (see edit history)

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So you want bunkers that are un-discoverable to both players and zombies then? Again it sounds like you want bunker simulator while in the bunker and zombie/PVP game when outside the bunker. I'm not saying this is a bad thing but it seems like it's the type of game you want to play.

 

Speaking as a former bunker-lover, that's about right in my case.

 

My playstyle (and that of the people I play local multiplayer with) has always been...

  • Go out during the day to loot/scavenge, but have a safe base to come back to at night to sort the day's pickings, cook, and craft.
  • Use melee 90% of the time, with bows 9% and firearms only in emergencies (the other 1%).
  • Mining is tedious and anti-fun, so none of us do it, as is building big complex structures.

 

In A15-A16 this would work fine with a bunker base. We'd spend the night in the base where the lack of zombie digging would mean we (and more importantly our stuff) were safe. On horde nights we'd have a separate platform over a bed of spikes - simple enough that it wouldn't require lots of boring mining for the materials, and the fact that the zombies would (if they got through the spikes) run round in circles underneath us rather than bashing our supports meant that it wouldn't require lots of maintenance and repair either. Similarly, using melee and bows meant we might not have killed all the horde-night zombies by the end of the night but we never needed to spend ages mining for materials to make gunpowder or the like.

 

In A17, the changes to zombie AI changed all that. I've not dug anything underground since A17 dropped. After a bit of a shaky start, I managed to work out good ways to keep zombies away and now I always use an existing POI - sealing up the ground floor and putting a zombie-proof entrance on the upper floor. The new AI makes above-ground bases just as safe as bunkers used to be, and upgrading the base from wood to brick to concrete is pretty much just for the sake of paranoia these days. Wooden bases are (assuming you have a separate horde-night structure of course) perfectly safe in A17-A18. They're just as safe as bunker bases used to be.

 

Horde-night structures were a bit more of a fiddly problem to "solve", but having established that we could make them safe we simply turned horde-night off. It's just not worth the time that you need to spend doing boring repair and resource gathering work. If we want some excitement we'll go do a quest at night instead.

 

Anyway, I've rambled a bit there - but my point is that as someone who enjoyed having bunkers that were zombie-proof; yes, the ability to have that is no longer there. But I don't miss it, because it's so easy to build a zombie-proof base above ground these days.

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