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GrandRiser

Zombies are computer-ly smarter now. Please make them dumber.

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I don't know where to put this, but last time I created a bunker down below until bedrock. We made a hole so that zombies would fall below until bedrock and we prepared traps too below.

20200109193836_1.jpg.291986f83c68844511e1904e983abd42.jpg

 

But what happened was the zombie on the surface detected our position down below (we were above bedrock), and 5-7 of them started to DIG down straight in a single hole up above (check picture I attached below). Luckily I managed to detect that using God mode, one day they might take us by surprise by emerging on top of us down in the bunker.

20200109230958_1.thumb.jpg.dbed1d07032d8a51428e332f5cb1b500.jpg

 

Sure, this can be evaded if we made a concrete/harder floor more wider up above so they won't dig down.

20200109231349_1.thumb.jpg.e688e01f76da6e9c91201f37ea1d6800.jpg

 

But I still cant think with clear mind how zombie can detect us meters away underground and dig straight. It's just too plain smart and they act in unity. Please make them dumber for this one. If developers somehow use shorter path logic for the zombies, surely jumping in the hole and fall down is faster to meet players.

 

Second, they were not "slippery" enough to slide down the hole we made and they perfectly evaded the hole we made (5-10 of them walk perfectly around the hole and passed each other perfectly) and jumped across perfectly too. The only way to attract them down is to use god mode in the middle of the hole or shoot their legs. It seemed like they stopped at the edge of the hole and just won't slide down. Please make them able to fall since they're zombies, not super-monster with athletic legs and smart brains. or are they?

 

For reference, please view Dying Light's zombie, where if they mistep just one step of stairs, they would fall .

 

Summary:

1. Make zombies computer-ly/technically dumber, at least use my case for an example.

2. Make them easier to fall. If they find a gap, they don't just find an way to get around it or jump. In Dying Light, basic zombies can't find a route and would just fall on the gap if the player is across the gap.

HOWEVER, if the zombie is a runner zombie (a bit advanced zombie), they will jump, find a way, and make way to the players no matter how high the players are. Maybe, basic zombies in 7 days to die needs to be dumber (by not finding alternate routes/shortest possible path) , but the feral can be made smarter.

 

These are just ideas and input and can't be correct 100%.

Edited by GrandRiser (see edit history)
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This is a common complaint on first exposure to the new AI, some searching will turn up many discussions about the digging zombies.

 

Short form: there are no safe passive defenses. They're not just undead, they're unreal. Creatures of nightmare that know where you live. They can hurt you. They can find you. They want to eat you. They are coming.

Edited by quyxkh (see edit history)

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1. Sensing you whereever you are is not intelligence. The dumbest dog can sense you better than any human could. Going the straight route is also nowhere near intelligent even though it might ulimately prove to be the best route.

 

2. I agree but AFAIK it was this way in A17 and was improved in the latest alphas. If you are playing 18.3 you should be able to make them fall down. Maybe you need a wider hole and probably you need a large concrete field around the hole.

Maybe you also need the lip of the hole have two rings, one made of 45 degree and an inner one made of 22.5 degree wedges. Or maybe only use one ring with the 22.5 degree wedges.

 

I didn't use a hole lately so I don't know directly from experience, but I've seen someone else on the forum showing a hole-to-bedrock design that worked perfectly.

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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1. Sensing you whereever you are is not intelligence. The dumbest dog can sense you better than any human could. Going the straight route is also nowhere near intelligent even though it might ulimately prove to be the best route.

 

2. I agree but AFAIK it was this way in A17 and was improved in the latest alphas. If you are playing 18.3 you should be able to make them fall down. Maybe you need a wider hole and probably you need a large concrete field around the hole.

Maybe you also need the lip of the hole have two rings, one made of 45 degree and an inner one made of 22.5 degree wedges. Or maybe only use one ring with the 22.5 degree wedges.

 

I didn't use a hole lately so I don't know directly from experience, but I've seen someone else on the forum showing a hole-to-bedrock design that worked perfectly.

 

I know but it's too smart. It's like they're mathematically and programmed know what you are horizontally, precisely below down. It is unatural. They also know where to jump and land with 100% precise accuracy. These are not traits of zombie, not even smart ones, they're smart ninjas.

 

2. Yeah I think i need to make it bigger.

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Guest Uthael
This is a common complaint on first exposure to the new AI, some searching will turn up many discussions about the digging zombies.

 

Short form: there are no safe passive defenses. They're not just undead, they're unreal. Creatures of nightmare that know where you live. They can hurt you. They can find you. They want to eat you. They are coming.

Ever tried tall steep slopes? They can't climb everything, but they *think* they can. So they just slide down and try again. Or putting ladders 2m from the ground. You can sprint+jump and grab onto them, but they can't.

Well, they can jump up or fly down, but that's for other defense mechanics.

 

There SHOULD be safe passive defenses. At least against regular zombies.

 

But to offset that, rare ones should be smart.

- Not go in to where a bunch of stupid ones died

- Throw the stupid ones to test if a path is safe

- Have one scout strange terrain and another one wait

- take and place blocks to make a path (check what 2b2t bots can do)

- Dig!

 

And some game mechanics should change. If there's a moving zombie nearby, prevent despawning of corpses. Let a corpse act as a protection against passive traps.

- If a zombie falls down a pit onto a pile of zombies, they cushion its fall

- If there's a pile of zombies on spikes, others can move over them.

- If there's a pile of zombies blocking a hallway, some start punching them, others start punching nearby walls to get around.

- Zombies climbing over zombies to get over a wall. If some are stuck for a long time, slow down their AI to allow more to spawn. Just have it check the surroundings every few seconds. After a while, they'll be almost as unimpactful to performance as blocks. Reduce the checks just to nearby blocks and the intervals to hours or days.

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Ever tried tall steep slopes? They can't climb everything, but they *think* they can. So they just slide down and try again. Or putting ladders 2m from the ground. You can sprint+jump and grab onto them, but they can't.

Well, they can jump up or fly down, but that's for other defense mechanics.

 

I use both, all the time. One-high wedge tip skirts are enough, and I don't feel bad offering the zeds much-easier targets. A two-meter jump, likewise. I think they should attack the wedges more readily when they've got noplace else to go, but whatever.

 

There SHOULD be safe passive defenses. At least against regular zombies.

 

Sorta, I think early game should look something like a tutorial to experienced players, not something you can phone in but close-ish. But it should be f'in hard for a newbie. Like getting to orbit (and then omg docking) in Orbiter or even KSP, once you've got the concepts it's not so hard at all, but figuring out how is Not Small, and getting good at it is a nontrivial, personal skill.

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There SHOULD be safe passive defenses. At least against regular zombies.

 

I agree. Lining a pit with concrete or steel should allow you to capture some of the low-level zombies. But when high-level zombie falls in there, it can break down the walls and they can all escape!

 

So passive defenses against low-level zombies once you are high enough level!

 

But to offset that, rare ones should be smart.

- Not go in to where a bunch of stupid ones died

- Throw the stupid ones to test if a path is safe

- Have one scout strange terrain and another one wait

- take and place blocks to make a path (check what 2b2t bots can do)

- Dig!

 

LOL. Or throw a stupid small zombie over the wall to help them get you. And the demo zombie should be a scrawny, jittery guy who sneaks and hides, digs under your base from far away, looks for your power bank, and plants a charge with a timer on it. Then he plants a few more charges in strategic places before he charges at you with a razor blade.

 

Note: I'm joking of course.

 

And some game mechanics should change. If there's a moving zombie nearby, prevent despawning of corpses. Let a corpse act as a protection against passive traps.

- If a zombie falls down a pit onto a pile of zombies, they cushion its fall

- If there's a pile of zombies on spikes, others can move over them.

- If there's a pile of zombies blocking a hallway, some start punching them, others start punching nearby walls to get around.

- Zombies climbing over zombies to get over a wall. If some are stuck for a long time, slow down their AI to allow more to spawn. Just have it check the surroundings every few seconds. After a while, they'll be almost as unimpactful to performance as blocks. Reduce the checks just to nearby blocks and the intervals to hours or days.

 

Piling zombie corpses used to be in the early alphas, I've heard.

 

I do like the general concept you suggest. I dislike the way the Zombies' path finding works. I think a few of them should be able to sense you. The rest should search for you, use smell and sound and vision. Would be cool to distract them by making a noise somewhere else, like throwing a rock.

 

Perhaps Marlene or Darlene should be able to guide the other Zombies straight to you, something like that.

 

I've done some testing on how smart they are regarding the thickness of walls and regarding what walls are made of.

 

I built a cage around myself, one side was 3 blocks thick wood and the other side was 1 block thick steel. Most of the time they tried to break through the steel. But my testing was inconclusive because I could not get consistent results. So it seems like they prefer the path with the least blocks to go through, regardless of what it is made of, 90% of the time. But the other 10% they actually go for the weaker, thicker wall. So I'm not sure.

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You are not wrong but the game makers consider this a core feature of the game and it is very unlikely to change.

 

The game, as I understand the developer vision, is not about finding a place to become safe from the zombies, the game is the zombies are coming to find you no matter what you do and you have to deal with it in ever increasing difficulty.

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