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Main skills only impacting specific weapons is backwards


dex314

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Two ways of saying the same thing.... having a side effect that increases your shotgun bonuses is just another way of saying "getting better with a shotgun"

 

 

 

Some people want a survival game where you need to take advantage of every opportunity you have to survive. Using a weapon you have no skill in vs. a weapon you have passive bonuses in (due to being a good chef) is frustrating. I can certainly understand someone disagreeing with this point of view... but you say you don't even understand the point of view.... I find that odd.

 

I repeat the question;

 

Is the problem;

 

I refuse to use weapon I'm not maxed in? - that's silly considering quality of gun and range / rate of fire / ammo availability re also factors.

 

I insist on only using the weapon I'm most perked for? - Likewise - it's one of several variables - why is this one decisive for you?

 

There is nothing stopping you from using the guns you want, and only time / management / skill dictating how good you get with them - why are you so opposed to earning it?

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I repeat the question;

 

Is the problem;

 

I refuse to use weapon I'm not maxed in? - that's silly considering quality of gun and range / rate of fire / ammo availability re also factors.

 

I insist on only using the weapon I'm most perked for? - Likewise - it's one of several variables - why is this one decisive for you?

 

There is nothing stopping you from using the guns you want, and only time / management / skill dictating how good you get with them - why are you so opposed to earning it?

 

I thought I was pretty clear with my last response.... but yeah, it's that I want to use the weapon I'm most suited for (ie. the one I'm best at). In previous alphas, you could chose which weapon you wanted to be skilled in, independent of any other skills. Now you cant. Now if you want to focus on farming, you're best at using machine guns. If you want to focus on cooking, you're best at shotguns.

 

Of course you can use whatever weapon you want... but using a weapon you're not skilled in, when you could use one you are skilled in is intentionally handicapping yourself. Not everyone likes doing that.

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I thought I was pretty clear with my last response.... but yeah, it's that I want to use the weapon I'm most suited for (ie. the one I'm best at). In previous alphas, you could chose which weapon you wanted to be skilled in, independent of any other skills. Now you cant. Now if you want to focus on farming, you're best at using machine guns. If you want to focus on cooking, you're best at shotguns.

 

Of course you can use whatever weapon you want... but using a weapon you're not skilled in, when you could use one you are skilled in is intentionally handicapping yourself. Not everyone likes doing that.

 

Thank you for your patient responses - I genuinely appreciate them - but may I offer a counter thought?

 

Why bother mining if you aren't maxed in mining?

Why loot if you aren't maxed in looting?

Why quest when not maxed in questing?

Why buy / sell when you aren't maxed in barter?

 

Why is weapon use the one thing you apply this 'must be maxed into' to? If every single other aspect of the game is guided by 'making the best of what is available' , why is it so important that the one gun you want is the only thing you get perks for, and anything else is 'wasted'?

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Thank you for your patient responses - I genuinely appreciate them - but may I offer a counter thought?

 

Why bother mining if you aren't maxed in mining?

Why loot if you aren't maxed in looting?

Why quest when not maxed in questing?

Why buy / sell when you aren't maxed in barter?

 

Why is weapon use the one thing you apply this 'must be maxed into' to? If every single other aspect of the game is guided by 'making the best of what is available' , why is it so important that the one gun you want is the only thing you get perks for, and anything else is 'wasted'?

 

You keep saying "maxed". Nobody has made the argument you need to be maxed to do something.

 

Let me counter that.... you're playing with a friend... you're friend is perked for mining and you're perked for looting. Are you going to spend the day mining while he's out looting?

 

Of course not. You engage in the activities you are best suited for.

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You keep saying "maxed". Nobody has made the argument you need to be maxed to do something.

 

Let me counter that.... you're playing with a friend... you're friend is perked for mining and you're perked for looting. Are you going to spend the day mining while he's out looting?

 

Of course not. You engage in the activities you are best suited for.

 

I think this is simply a disagreement of taste and style - we might choose to do what we're suited to, but if I like mining / looting I'm still gonna do it - and I'll perk accordingly - but won't let the status of perked / unperked dictate what I do and do not do.

 

If I DON'T enjoy something I'm not gonna do, unless I either absolutely have to or I'm taking my 'turn' doing something nobody likes - but I'd expect a good team to share out such duties; and put the experience ahead of the mechanics.

 

But negotiating and assigning stuff in multiplayer is part of the experience of playing multiplayer - but at no point is the game system forcing me to do anything or stopping me from doing anything.

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I think this is simply a disagreement of taste and style - we might choose to do what we're suited to, but if I like mining / looting I'm still gonna do it - and I'll perk accordingly - but won't let the status of perked / unperked dictate what I do and do not do.

 

Fine, you're not a min maxer, an/or you do not care about being efficient with skills. We're not all like that. In fact playing on tougher difficulties you can argue you are forced to be very efficient because you are in an arms race with the enemies. Example:

 

Playing 2-player co-op, Insane. We know Demolishers will arrive by day 21 horde. We have 21 days to get our base design up. This means we need 100k Concrete and a crap-ton of Steel by then. Friend will spec into Int and go straight for Steel, I will spec Str and go straight for Miner69er and Motherlode. We *have* to do that. There is basically no point in MIning without 5/5 in both those skills, given the rate I need to get Stone.

 

It's an extreme example but the point remains. Mining with few or no points in those skills is extremely inefficient. Whether that inefficiency bothers you or will actually turn into a genuine LIABILITY depends entirely on what kind of player you are and what difficulty you are playing on.

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Fine, you're not a min maxer, an/or you do not care about being efficient with skills. We're not all like that. In fact playing on tougher difficulties you can argue you are forced to be very efficient because you are in an arms race with the enemies. Example:

 

Playing 2-player co-op, Insane. We know Demolishers will arrive by day 21 horde. We have 21 days to get our base design up. This means we need 100k Concrete and a crap-ton of Steel by then. Friend will spec into Int and go straight for Steel, I will spec Str and go straight for Miner69er and Motherlode. We *have* to do that. There is basically no point in MIning without 5/5 in both those skills, given the rate I need to get Stone.

 

It's an extreme example but the point remains. Mining with few or no points in those skills is extremely inefficient. Whether that inefficiency bothers you or will actually turn into a genuine LIABILITY depends entirely on what kind of player you are and what difficulty you are playing on.

 

Yet again I find myself having to say the same thing to you, Ghostlight - it is nonsensical to be choosing to turn up the difficulty and then complain about how difficult it is.

 

Maybe you've gotten too used to having an easy hard mode - up to alpha 16 there were too many exploits and short cuts which made it possible and, in fact, simple to be able to turn up the difficulty without actually making the game significanlty harder. Those days appear to be over.

 

You don't *have* to do any of the things you list; you *choose* to play on max difficulty, you *choose* to build a base, and *choose* to fight the horde in it, you *choose* to build a base that requires 100k concrete steel, and *choose* to max perk into those skills for max efficiency.

 

You could just as easily choose a lower setting, choose a different base, tactic and / or level of efficiency and still enjoy yourself - but obviously the challenge will increase on higher settings and you will have to make more decisive and better decisions to survive - presuming you are *choosing* to consider dying or having your base destroyed as a game over or situation you are not willing to accept; but everything which you and others in this thread - and others - is being dictated not by the game, but by the players choices.

 

By going into your game having already decided exactly how you are going to play you have restricted your own options; it's like playing Fallout NV deciding you're only interested in energy weapons and power armour, and then complaining that there aren't enough energy weapons and power armour in the early game; before continuing to run about using only a laser pistol and no armour and complaining that the game is too hard because bandits with rifles are killing you.

 

THAT'S extreme, but it the point remains, whatever you choose to do, and whatever you choose not to do has consequences; and the players here appear to be choosing not to take advantage of the opportunities available to them out of a play-style choice - which is fine - but to then construe that those opportunities should be removed in favour of ones which suit their own min/max high difficulty choices is weird - IMO.

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I think this is simply a disagreement of taste and style - we might choose to do what we're suited to, but if I like mining / looting I'm still gonna do it - and I'll perk accordingly - but won't let the status of perked / unperked dictate what I do and do not do.

 

If I DON'T enjoy something I'm not gonna do, unless I either absolutely have to or I'm taking my 'turn' doing something nobody likes - but I'd expect a good team to share out such duties; and put the experience ahead of the mechanics.

 

But negotiating and assigning stuff in multiplayer is part of the experience of playing multiplayer - but at no point is the game system forcing me to do anything or stopping me from doing anything.

 

Again, I'm not saying the game is forcing you into anything.... more like guiding you into things. But you almost made my point. "but if I like mining / looting I'm still gonna do it - and I'll perk accordingly" You will perk into the things you like. So if you like mining but also like using a machine gun you'll have to spend twice as many points as someone that likes mining and also likes using a shotgun.

 

What benefit does that mechanic provide? Other than make it more difficult for the player to decide how he wants to build his character?

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Again, I'm not saying the game is forcing you into anything.... more like guiding you into things. But you almost made my point. "but if I like mining / looting I'm still gonna do it - and I'll perk accordingly" You will perk into the things you like. So if you like mining but also like using a machine gun you'll have to spend twice as many points as someone that likes mining and also likes using a shotgun.

 

What benefit does that mechanic provide? Other than make it more difficult for the player to decide how he wants to build his character?

 

I know it sounds like semantics - and maybe it partly is - but the way I see it is just the opposite - it doesn't make anything more difficult, it simply benefits someone who takes advantage of the designated synergy.

 

I'll perk accordingly; but when it's a choice between my preferred gun and having - for example - workstations or chem stations available; i'll make a choice and live with it.

 

There are plenty of points to go around and plenty of time to get them - unless a player has either upped the difficulty or set their own arbitrary need to have specific skills maxed before using or not using particular things.

 

My weapon choice is dictated by what I want to use; but often mitigated by what is available, what quality it is, what the ammo situation is and what I'm fighting; but I won't necessarily have the one I like best at high condition, modded and fully perked until late into the game; but how is that different from, for example, Fallout / any other game?

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I know it sounds like semantics - and maybe it partly is - but the way I see it is just the opposite - it doesn't make anything more difficult, it simply benefits someone who takes advantage of the designated synergy.

 

I'll perk accordingly; but when it's a choice between my preferred gun and having - for example - workstations or chem stations available; i'll make a choice and live with it.

 

There are plenty of points to go around and plenty of time to get them - unless a player has either upped the difficulty or set their own arbitrary need to have specific skills maxed before using or not using particular things.

 

My weapon choice is dictated by what I want to use; but often mitigated by what is available, what quality it is, what the ammo situation is and what I'm fighting; but I won't necessarily have the one I like best at high condition, modded and fully perked until late into the game; but how is that different from, for example, Fallout / any other game?

 

Well, thats the way you like to play and thats fine. For me, I don't like having skills go to waste. If I'm perking into strength for cooking, I truly dislike using a pistol knowing that I'd be more effective using a shotgun. At low levels, it's not that big a deal.... but as your strength gets higher so does the discrepancy between skilled and unskilled.

 

I strongly disagree with the statement that there are plenty of points to go around.... but thats another argument entirely.

 

Suffice it to say that people are different. You're ok with using a weapon because you like it, when another weapon would be more effective due to passive skills. I'm not ok with it.... not saying I can't or don't... I just don't like it.

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