POLL: Would you like to see food spoilage added?

[Ghostlight]

Ding ding ding! Yes, some people like the game for different reasons which is a good thing imo. For all you know he has horde nights configured to once every 2 weeks and plays on the lowest game setting and that's perfectly fine....

 

I know, I know, but I'm still curious as to what benefit stockpiling food conveys.

[Ghostlight]

If you become thirsty, you drink some liquid that gives you the most thirst.

If you become hungry, you eat a meal that gives you the most fullness.

If you not feeling well, you eat a meal that gives you the most wellness.

 

Ah but the point was that all foodstuffs gave Fullness and Wellness, however the easier to acquire foods give only a tiny bit of Wellness. And you could not over-eat back then remember. This meant that the player would have to actively seek out or make the better food types if we wanted to increase his max HP.

 

In A18, it doesn't matter a damn what you eat, as long as you eat. It increases your Stamina and leveling up automatically increases max Stamina end of story. Nowadays a diet of the easiest to come by foods (i.e. cans) is perfectly adequate. In A16 this was not the case because cans gave very little Wellness so you went out your way to eat better. If you didn't and just ate whatever came your way, you'd get full but without increasing your Wellness. Every single thing you ate that did not increase Wellness (or not by much) was a liability as you could only eat so much per day. Put another way, every food you ate which was not a Meaty Stew (which was the best Wellness food) meant you had less max HP than you could have had wherever you were in the game. But you had to eat, right? Two players on day 100, neither of whom had died at all, could find that one of them, who had just eaten any old crap for 100 days, had 120 HP while the other, who went out his way to hunt and farm and eat well, had 200 HP.

[Liesel Weppen]

You're right, at least in singleplayer wellness was a reason to cook and not just eat cans.

Since i only play multiplayer, we go for self-cooking anyway, and if you do so, you just focus on two meals one giving max food and one giving max wellness. We also went for garden and cooking in A18, because it is just anoying always looking for cans everywhere and then need to eat dozens of them all the time.

[Vedui]

No thanks

 

The problem with food spoilage is that you need to really enhance the actual food system to work around it. We now have crops that grow from seed to maturity in 2 days (alien virus is great!) ... and most food consumed is still done so within probably a few days, or maybe a week.

 

Implementing food spoilage means you need to properly implement food preservation. Ie, a freezer (or just storing it in a snow biome) should keep food indefinitely (30-500 days is indefinite in 7dtd and then you have to start implementing food preparation too (ie, re-heating, re-cooking, thawing).

 

In the end:

 

Early game - No difference. You generally eat all food within days, or find cans which last for months.

 

Mid game - No difference. Store it in a snowbiome (or grab ice for an ice box in an underground cave).

 

Late game - No difference. Store in a freezer and take out when you need it.

 

I think instead of spending time on this, spend it on things people all benefit from (bandits, npc's, more content, underground caving, water/rafts/boats) and so on

[Laz Man]

No thanks

 

The problem with food spoilage is that you need to really enhance the actual food system to work around it. We now have crops that grow from seed to maturity in 2 days (alien virus is great!) ... and most food consumed is still done so within probably a few days, or maybe a week.

 

Implementing food spoilage means you need to properly implement food preservation. Ie, a freezer (or just storing it in a snow biome) should keep food indefinitely (30-500 days is indefinite in 7dtd and then you have to start implementing food preparation too (ie, re-heating, re-cooking, thawing).

 

In the end:

 

Early game - No difference. You generally eat all food within days, or find cans which last for months.

 

Mid game - No difference. Store it in a snowbiome (or grab ice for an ice box in an underground cave).

 

Late game - No difference. Store in a freezer and take out when you need it.

 

I think instead of spending time on this, spend it on things people all benefit from (bandits, npc's, more content, underground caving, water/rafts/boats) and so on

 

You forgot ziplines...😂

[hotpoon]

...

That's right, after you put the effort into making a farm and wrestling the canned food out of your player's hands, your reward is food that not only has a chance to make you puke regardless of the skill of the one who made it, but now progressively spoils and can make you puke more, and possibly other side effects? Oh the food has special powers, so it makes the risk worth it?

...

 

For space purposes, I've only included the one paragraph that I want to address, but I though the rest were fair points.

 

I voted 'yes', but in my mind, the food spoilage replaces or at least changes the food poisoning, so that you don't get food poisoning randomly, but rather that your chance of food poisoning increases the closer the food gets to its expiry date. If they were to keep the current 4% random chance nonsense and add spoilage, I would say 'hell no'.

 

The other thing that I just assumed is that with food spoilage, we get rotten meat - which is useful for farming. If, on the other hand, the meat just disappears when it expires, then that would be a shame.

[hotpoon]

...

No more stack of food, each individual food and ingredient is now on a timer till food spoilage.

....

 

Not necessarily. In Ark, you can stack steaks up to 20 (if I recall correctly), and the counter only affects the top one. Once it expires, the 19th steak starts rotting. Because rotten meat is actually needed for narcotics, it's a strategy to un-stack meat to single pieces for faster spoilage.

[crazywildfire]

Not necessarily. In Ark, you can stack steaks up to 20 (if I recall correctly), and the counter only affects the top one. Once it expires, the 19th steak starts rotting. Because rotten meat is actually needed for narcotics, it's a strategy to un-stack meat to single pieces for faster spoilage.

 

But then how would the post you made above work if you did it like ark? You said as it gets closer to spoilage it increases poisoning you. If you have it stacked then what you take that top one off and the timer starts over? Then what is the point one will just max stack everything and everytime they the just do away with the first one.

 

It seems like a bunch of micromanaging for this game and I haven't seen one idea that I can get on board with personally. It would be something that gets modded no matter how it gets done and will use up coding and resources for something that only the left hand wants in game and the right hand doesn't. Even the left hand that wants it in game will mod it to adjust it because not everyone will like how it will be done. For me I don't see a good way of doing this and it being a fun mechanic. I say leave this to a mod and let them work on more important things or what I would call more important. I get that the left hand feels this is important and that is fine more power to those. "Shrug"

[hotpoon]

But then how would the post you made above work if you did it like ark? You said as it gets closer to spoilage it increases poisoning you. If you have it stacked then what you take that top one off and the timer starts over? Then what is the point one will just max stack everything and everytime they the just do away with the first one.

 

It seems like a bunch of micromanaging for this game and I haven't seen one idea that I can get on board with personally. It would be something that gets modded no matter how it gets done and will use up coding and resources for something that only the left hand wants in game and the right hand doesn't. Even the left hand that wants it in game will mod it to adjust it because not everyone will like how it will be done. For me I don't see a good way of doing this and it being a fun mechanic. I say leave this to a mod and let them work on more important things or what I would call more important. I get that the left hand feels this is important and that is fine more power to those. "Shrug"

 

I hadn't really thought about it, but you're right - the current food poisoning would have to only apply to fully rotten meat instead of gaining an increased percentage to poison. In that case the spoilage would work exactly like Ark. I'm ok with that personally. I think Ark does a great job of it, and I like that it makes it a goal to work towards attaining preserving bins and refrigerators. Conan Exiles also has something you can craft fairly early on which allows you to dry meat for longer preservation. I like that too.

 

You're also probably right that it will cause a bit of a split. I think it will cause less of a split if they implement it well. If you haven't played Ark, it sounds like a micromanaging bore, but in practise it actually works well. The only thing that's a chore is that in Ark, you aren't just feeding yourself, but also all your dinos, so it's not nice when all the food goes rotten and your dinos start pegging off from starvation. In 7DtD, you're only worrying about yourself so it would be a lot easier.

[Liesel Weppen]

But then how would the post you made above work if you did it like ark? You said as it gets closer to spoilage it increases poisoning you.

I guess that have been two separate ideas where no one has anything to do with the other.

 

Of course it makes no sense to combine the chance of food poisoning with the stacking system from ark.

 

In ARK iirc the meat does not get worse when the timer ticks down. It changes it's state immediately from "meat" to "rotten meat" once the timer runs out. So it made no sense to remove the "top one". And irc if you removed the top one or halfed the stack, both new stacks had the same time remaining. So there is no way to reset the timer by just removing or adding something to the stack.

It is just a system to make a constant slow loss. From a stack of 20 you lose 1 item per hour, instead of lose nothing and after 20 hours the whole stack vanishes.

 

Using food poisoning in 7d2d as food spoilage would be the exactly other way round. The meat doesn't change once from "good" to "bad" but it becomes worse slowly but constantly. I guess you don't want to eat a meal which already has reached 80% poison chance, right? But there are still 20% "left". That makes no sense in combination with stacking. At least (don't know if the item system in 7d2d could handle this) you still need to have a counter for every single item, nevertheless it is a single item or a stack of 10.

 

Anyway the more thinking about it using food poisoning for that might not be a good idea, because that makes people finally only eat really fresh cooked stuff, and avoid storing food at all, because it just becomes worse. That on the otherhand i'd find anyoing. Yeah, maybe it is some kind of realistic, but it's still just a game. My intention with food spoilage is not to create useless overhead and micromanagement but just make food not as self convenient as it is right now.

[crazywildfire]

I hadn't really thought about it, but you're right - the current food poisoning would have to only apply to fully rotten meat instead of gaining an increased percentage to poison. In that case the spoilage would work exactly like Ark. I'm ok with that personally. I think Ark does a great job of it, and I like that it makes it a goal to work towards attaining preserving bins and refrigerators. Conan Exiles also has something you can craft fairly early on which allows you to dry meat for longer preservation. I like that too.

 

You're also probably right that it will cause a bit of a split. I think it will cause less of a split if they implement it well. If you haven't played Ark, it sounds like a micromanaging bore, but in practise it actually works well. The only thing that's a chore is that in Ark, you aren't just feeding yourself, but also all your dinos, so it's not nice when all the food goes rotten and your dinos start pegging off from starvation. In 7DtD, you're only worrying about yourself so it would be a lot easier.

 

I have played those and getting food in Ark, Conan, and Atlas and personally didn't like it but dealt with it only because it really isn't hard at all to get meat in those at all. In Ark dinos give way more meat then you can even deal with within a good 5 to 10 min run and feeds all dinos, everyone in group and myself. In Conan meat isn't an issue every hill you go over you have loads of things to kill and still same thing a good 10 mins and you are good to go if you focus on getting meat only for days. In Atlas same thing like Ark only difference that is a pain in it is the victims you got to keep up with along with it but still the islands have plenty of food and meat and the ocean has plenty of fish. Either way I don't care for the mechanics in non of them and on private server and or SP I adjust each game to make it less annoying. So if added in this game I would do the same thing. But in this game meat isn't as easy to come by as those. Some times no issues but other times you don't see hardly any animals so it isn't as easy to just log on and go out the door and kill something like those games every time (from my experience). Then we want to add it to crops as well like getting a nice farm as it is isn't a pain right now? Idk like I said not my cup of tea but I don't hate those that like it.

 

Another reason my friend likes to play with us when they get a chance to play a few times a week. They enjoy the company but they like doing what they like and don't want to live off anyone or anything. So this would force them to play a different way and force them to live with others because by the time they log on all the food they had would be spoiled. Then they have to spend the time they do have goin out hunting if they are lucky to find animals that time vs the last time and grow crops or the last option is to live off can foods only so now they are forced to spend time looking for can food all the time. So speaking for then right now and they might not care idk but this wouldn't be something they would want to do and I'm sure they say mod that crap out please.

 

So idk, like I said I personally don't see a good way of doing this to make it fun. So I still say for me and me alone (if others agree fine but not speaking for them) let then use the resources to add better things to game and let this be a mod. But again if they do add it I will be more then happy to do what i do in those other games and adjust it to fit my liking.

[AtomicUs5000]

At least (don't know if the item system in 7d2d could handle this) you still need to have a counter for every single item, nevertheless it is a single item or a stack of 10.

 

Everything won't need a separate timer, just a timestamp variable. The % spoiled only needs to update its display the moment you look at it. The only exception might be if you have food on your toolbelt. In those cases, the toolbelt would need an update loop, triggering an update display event maybe once per minute.

 

I just want to point out that this spoilage percentage does not need to mean percent spoiled. It could mean percentage of time passed until it is spoiled. This would make food fine to use as food as long as it is below 100%

[crazywildfire]

Anyway the more thinking about it using food poisoning for that might not be a good idea, because that makes people finally only eat really fresh cooked stuff, and avoid storing food at all, because it just becomes worse. That on the otherhand i'd find anyoing. Yeah, maybe it is some kind of realistic, but it's still just a game. My intention with food spoilage is not to create useless overhead and micromanagement but just make food not as self convenient as it is right now.

 

Good points on what I clipped out so not avoiding those by no means

 

I agree completely food should be more then a problem then what it currently is but I just can't see a fun way coming from food spoilage for this game that doesn't turn into micromanaging system. Or have to log in and the time you have free to play have to worry about food because all of it is gone from spoilage. By the time you get food you lost that free time playing and barely get to do other things. So to do something different besides losing the work you did do the last time you was on I can be more on board with. At least then I play this day for food but then the next time I can do other things the game offers and not have to worry about food everytime I log in.

[Liesel Weppen]

So to do something different besides losing the work you did do the last time you was on I can be more on board with. At least then I play this day for food but then the next time I can do other things the game offers and not have to worry about food everytime I log in.

That is a question of the spoilage time. Of course food should not spoil after 1 ingame hour. I think about something like 2 ingame days in a normal chest and maybe 4 ingame days in a fridge.

It's something you need to care at least a little for. We have so many ressources (because they don't spoil either, so the stack becomes just bigger and bigger), currently i could mass produce meals in few minutes and we've had enough food for the next 100 days without cooking new meals.

 

And you don't need to worry about your food every time you log in. Since server time stops if nobody is online, for me it's absolutely clear that also food will not continue spoiling in this time.

 

Food spoilage is not the only point to adress the "food-problem". But it is at least a food (and food ingredient) sink.

Additionally i'd address the gardening. There might be events which cause your plants to die. Make harvesting a bit more random (randomness reduced by the LOTL-Perk but never vanishes), maybe you only have a chance of 20% to harvest 3 vegetables. That'll make the whole prozess less planable and forces you to react to bad harvesting or crop failures. But taht would not have any effect if you can easily preseve a huge stack of food because it never spoils.

 

I don't have to decide what TFP finally might do, but i think there have been some good ideas in this thread, at least worth thinking about them. And further discussing them might even led to newer and better ideas.

[ZombieSurvivor]

That is a question of the spoilage time. Of course food should not spoil after 1 ingame hour. I think about something like 2 ingame days in a normal chest and maybe 4 ingame days in a fridge.

It's something you need to care at least a little for. We have so many ressources (because they don't spoil either, so the stack becomes just bigger and bigger), currently i could mass produce meals in few minutes and we've had enough food for the next 100 days without cooking new meals.

 

And you don't need to worry about your food every time you log in. Since server time stops if nobody is online, for me it's absolutely clear that also food will not continue spoiling in this time.

 

Food spoilage is not the only point to adress the "food-problem". But it is at least a food (and food ingredient) sink.

Additionally i'd address the gardening. There might be events which cause your plants to die. Make harvesting a bit more random (randomness reduced by the LOTL-Perk but never vanishes), maybe you only have a chance of 20% to harvest 3 vegetables. That'll make the whole prozess less planable and forces you to react to bad harvesting or crop failures. But taht would not have any effect if you can easily preseve a huge stack of food because it never spoils.

 

I don't have to decide what TFP finally might do, but i think there have been some good ideas in this thread, at least worth thinking about them. And further discussing them might even led to newer and better ideas.

 

I strongly disagree with crops dieing. I'm sorry but that is not good in any way shape or form for the game. But if you have fleshed out this idea I'm all ears....

[Kalen]

For space purposes, I've only included the one paragraph that I want to address, but I though the rest were fair points.

 

I voted 'yes', but in my mind, the food spoilage replaces or at least changes the food poisoning, so that you don't get food poisoning randomly, but rather that your chance of food poisoning increases the closer the food gets to its expiry date. If they were to keep the current 4% random chance nonsense and add spoilage, I would say 'hell no'.

 

The other thing that I just assumed is that with food spoilage, we get rotten meat - which is useful for farming. If, on the other hand, the meat just disappears when it expires, then that would be a shame.

 

Roland pretty much outlined this exact idea here: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?136069-POLL-Would-you-like-to-see-food-spoilage-added&p=1071097&viewfull=1#post1071097

 

I figured food would stack based on its poison percentage.... so all the 1% chance items would stack, all the 3% chance would form a different stack.... etc.

[AtomicUs5000]

I strongly disagree with crops dieing. I'm sorry but that is not good in any way shape or form for the game. But if you have fleshed out this idea I'm all ears....

 

I don't see how crops dying off if left too long is any different than food spoiling if left out of preservation too long. Game-wise, it is nearly the same. The only difference I see is one thing is an item in your inventory and the other thing is an item not in your inventory.

[Kalen]

I don't see how crops dying off if left too long is any different than food spoiling if left out of preservation too long. Game-wise, it is nearly the same. The only difference I see is one thing is an item in your inventory and the other thing is an item not in your inventory.

 

If you add spoilage but not crops dying then people would just leave crops sitting there just harvesting what they need to cook a particular meal.... which sort of defeats the purpose of spoilage.

[ZombieSurvivor]

I don't see how crops dying off if left too long is any different than food spoiling if left out of preservation too long. Game-wise, it is nearly the same. The only difference I see is one thing is an item in your inventory and the other thing is an item not in your inventory.

 

Oh if left to long, yeah thats fine. I like that idea. the poster made it sound like random crops dieing based on nothing but a random event would some how make the game more fun and challenging. that would be frustrating as hell. *cough like food poisening now cough*

 

EDIT: Note: if crops dieing is based on amount of time passed. that would have a huge issue when it comes to multiplayer on dedicated servers. so actually I take back what i said about it being a good idea. not a good idea. lol.. i dunno.

 

And now that I'm thinking about it....how will food spoiladge work on dedicated server...hmmmmm I have heard no one bring up this issue or solution...anyone got some ideas?

[crazywildfire]

That is a question of the spoilage time. Of course food should not spoil after 1 ingame hour. I think about something like 2 ingame days in a normal chest and maybe 4 ingame days in a fridge.

It's something you need to care at least a little for. We have so many ressources (because they don't spoil either, so the stack becomes just bigger and bigger), currently i could mass produce meals in few minutes and we've had enough food for the next 100 days without cooking new meals.

 

And you don't need to worry about your food every time you log in. Since server time stops if nobody is online, for me it's absolutely clear that also food will not continue spoiling in this time.

 

Food spoilage is not the only point to adress the "food-problem". But it is at least a food (and food ingredient) sink.

Additionally i'd address the gardening. There might be events which cause your plants to die. Make harvesting a bit more random (randomness reduced by the LOTL-Perk but never vanishes), maybe you only have a chance of 20% to harvest 3 vegetables. That'll make the whole prozess less planable and forces you to react to bad harvesting or crop failures. But taht would not have any effect if you can easily preseve a huge stack of food because it never spoils.

 

I don't have to decide what TFP finally might do, but i think there have been some good ideas in this thread, at least worth thinking about them. And further discussing them might even led to newer and better ideas.

 

Sure on sp you log off and it stops. On servers time don't stop because when just one person logs on the time starts ticking. So if you read anything I was saying you would see that we play on a server. My friend plays a few times a week. So by the time they log on (well really for anyone but will stick to just them) a week and some times more has passed. So now they don't get to play the way they want to so now they are limited to the options. Either stop playing with others and play strictly SP, play with others and live off them, mod it out or stop playing because the amount of time they get to play will be doing food runs everytime they log on if added and play by default. So this forces people to play certain ways and from the time I been around here noone likes being forced to play like someone else or am I wrong?

 

I don't think it is a bad thing just not my and a lot of others cup of tea. I feel the amount of time, coding and resources to get it right can be spent with what I personally would say more important things for something that doesn't add much besides micromanaging to deal with. But as I said it will be something I will definitely mod out if added so really do what they want with it but I can't agree to something I don't care for and never will. But happy that others find it fun and say good for those that do, a lot of people don't. Neither is wrong just different types of people.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Sure on sp you log off and it stops. On servers time don't stop because when just one person logs on the time starts ticking. So if you read anything I was saying you would see that we play on a server. My friend plays a few times a week. So by the time they log on (well really for anyone but will stick to just them) a week and some times more has passed. So now they don't get to play the way they want to so now they are limited to the options. Either stop playing with others and play strictly SP, play with others and live off them, mod it out or stop playing because the amount of time they get to play will be doing food runs everytime they log on if added and play by default. So this forces people to play certain ways and from the time I been around here noone likes being forced to play like someone else or am I wrong?

 

I don't think it is a bad thing just not my and a lot of others cup of tea. I feel the amount of time, coding and resources to get it right can be spent with what I personally would say more important things for something that doesn't add much besides micromanaging to deal with. But as I said it will be something I will definitely mod out if added so really do what they want with it but I can't agree to something I don't care for and never will. But happy that others find it fun and say good for those that do a lot of people don't. Neither is wrong just different types of people.

 

Oh so you already brought up the issue about food spoiladge on dedicated servers. damn some how i missed that. I'm interested to hear peoples solution to this problem as it never occured to me until a few minutes ago, well to be exact when i edited the post above yours is when i thought about it.

 

Ark, Atlas, Heat to name a few games make is so that food is just really really easy to come by so not logging in for a week doesnt really matter since u can walk out your door get food and set. 7 Days to Die on the other hand....hmmm I'm now leaning towards switching my vote no because of this. I was pro but until I hear a solution to this......

[ZombieSurvivor]

Sorry Yes voters....looks like the dark side has won me over

I'm now on team no...... *cries* heeeelp I want to be pro food spoiladge again... lol

 

 

Now if only I knew how to change my vote....

[crazywildfire]

Oh so you already brought up the issue about food spoiladge on dedicated servers. damn some how i missed that. I'm interested to hear peoples solution to this problem as it never occured to me until a few minutes ago, well to be exact when i edited the post above yours is when i thought about it.

 

Ark, Atlas, Heat to name a few games make is so that food is just really really easy to come by so not logging in for a week doesnt really matter since u can walk out your door get food and set. 7 Days to Die on the other hand....hmmm

 

Yelp said some of those games in another post and even said a few things about them in small detail ways how easy those are to get food and amount of food you get. Sometimes 7dtd you find animals like no tomorrow but log in another time and nothing or takes awhile for them to spawn. I don't care for those other games spoilage system but more easily to get over then it would be in this game and even those games I adjust the spoilage timers but even if I didn't it still not as bad. SP isn't as bad because time stops so not really losing much of nothing. But on servers you log off and even logging in the next day if the server was played on a lot the next day you log on server in game hours/days have passed and food isn't like walking out the door and 10 animals right in your face and bushes with berries in that patch of grass spawned back to eat and so on. The way 7dtd mechanics are set up food spoilage just becomes to much micromanagement and to much for this game imo. But like I said everyone makes fun in different ways so not saying it is a bad thing at all just not for me.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Yelp said some of those games in another post and even said a few things about them in small detail ways how easy those are to get food and amount of food you get. Sometimes 7dtd you find animals like no tomorrow but log in another time and nothing or takes awhile for them to spawn. I don't care for those other games spoilage system but more easily to get over then it would be in this game and even those games I adjust the spoilage timers but even if I didn't it still not as bad. SP isn't as bad because time stops so not really losing much of nothing. But on servers you log off and even logging in the next day if the server was played on a lot the next day you log on server in game hours/days have passed and food isn't like walking out the door and 10 animals right in your face and bushes with berries in that patch of grass spawned back to eat and so on. The way 7dtd mechanics are set up food spoilage just becomes to much micromanagement and to much for this game imo. But like I said everyone makes fun in different ways so not saying it is a bad thing at all just not for me.

 

Good points. Enough to change my view. I never really gave it to much thought until now. I must have been really stoned when i read your posts and forgot lol. I would have posted a response agreeing and would have changed my mind had I read them or read them sober when you first brought up this issue lol.

[AtomicUs5000]

If you add spoilage but not crops dying then people would just leave crops sitting there just harvesting what they need to cook a particular meal.... which sort of defeats the purpose of spoilage.

 

Understood... I was just pointing out that the mechanic is almost the same. It would be odd to be ok with the addition of one in the game but not the other.