POLL: Would you like to see food spoilage added?

[Ghostlight]

I have over several chests full of stacks of stews, meat and potatoes, all drinks, etc.

 

Did it magically appear, or did you earn it?

 

If you earned it, why did you bother getting so much when you plainly didn't need it? You could have spent time doing something more useful. I don't think you need spoilage added to the game, you just need to learn better time management?

[AtomicUs5000]

Also as far as day length goes. I assume players on 2 hour days could mine twice as long as those on 1 hour days and thus need twice as much food to replace lost stamina, bought from vending machines that restock half as often. So surely day length is a major factor here?

 

We can mine any time of day and stamina use is the same no matter what settings you choose. You don't mine the same amount faster if you set the days to 10 minutes long. For instance, I stated before that I can fill up in the morning and will be fine until the next morning on 2 hour days. The exception is on horde night because I won't let my stamina drop on those nights. If I set it to 1 hour days, I could fill up once every other morning.

 

EDIT: Keeping in mind that I am speaking on average for a playthrough. Obviously the max stam on day 1 won't provide enough over-eating leverage to wait until the next morning to eat again on 2 hour days. Maybe 1 hour days. Point is, in terms of your stamina usage and the amount of food you eat, the numbers when you reach the end of day 1 on two hour days is the same as the values at the end of day 2 on one hour days.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Indeed those that play 120 min days vs those who play 60 min days will find they have a hard time hunting, lack of animals, due to how spawning is done in the game for animals and might feel a food shortage. A fix for this is to turn all friendlyanimals and enemyanimals up by 1 point in the xml for all biomes and reduce the length of time by half for the animals to respawn. <--for 120 min days in order to help balance things out since its all static numbers.

It would work better if animal spawning was dynamic and adjusted according to the length of day selected and not a static numbers based on days alone.

 

I never would have guessed this untill i went from 60 min days to 120 and had a look at the xml file after starting my server up a week ago. Doing the above stated fix is how I balanced it out on my server.

 

Granted it feels balanced for 60 minute days because...I'm guessing the game is balanced around the default settings. So turning up the length of days throws animals/food and stuff out of balance. Add a few more players to the mix on a server and it gets thrown further out of balance. A dynamic number would solve all of that.

[Laz Man]

Lots of interesting ideas/concerns so far in this thread but they all get muddy once balance discussions happen. Refrigeration, timers/minutes per day, stacking, bag space, skill trees vs schematics...

 

It is probably why it's not a priority for the devs as it exponentially complicates balance just for one mechanic which only a fraction of the player base would even appreciate.

[AtomicUs5000]

Indeed those that play 120 min days vs those who play 60 min days will find they have a hard time hunting, lack of animals, due to how spawning is done in the game for animals and might feel a food shortage. A fix for this is to turn all friendlyanimals and enemyanimals up by 1 point in the xml for all biomes and reduce the length of time by half for the animals to respawn. <--for longer than 60 min days in order to help balance things out since its all static numbers.

It would work better if animal spawning was dynamic and adjusted according to the length of day selected and not a static numbers based on days alone.

 

I never would have guessed this untill i went from 60 min days to 120 and had a look at the xml file after starting my server up a week ago.

 

Granted it feels balanced for 60 minute days because...I'm guessing the game is balanced around the default settings. So turning up the length of days throws animals/food and stuff out of balance. Add a few more players to the mix on a server and it gets thrown further out of balance. A dynamic number would solve all of that.

 

Hmm... I've been playing 2 hour days almost all of A18 so far. There are some days where the animals are practically non-existent, but I have yet to run out of meat. I have wolf encounters at least three times a week regardless of the prey animals showing up. What I do almost run out of is eggs. I think what might be different about my games is that I tend to do most traveling on foot even if I have vehicles. I just use the vehicles for runs to distant traders. Quests take me 0.5 to 2 km in all directions, and I do those on foot too. The reason why I do these things on foot is because I am constantly whacking those little branchy plants for wood. On a quest, back and forth, I can get a few hundred wood without even thinking about it, plus a huge surplus of feathers. Also I'm constantly looking for stumps so I can craft the awesome sauce as much as possible.

 

EDIT: btw, in my current game, I was blessed with a dog horde of 8 on day 6. I also found that construction POI with the zombie bear. It is now day 10 and I already have over 20 farm plots from all the rotten flesh. Although I haven't cooked up any recipes from the crops yet, my food issues are really over with for the rest of the game.

[ktr]

Lots of interesting ideas/concerns so far in this thread but they all get muddy once balance discussions happen. Refrigeration, timers/minutes per day, stacking, bag space, skill trees vs schematics...

 

It is probably why it's not a priority for the devs as it exponentially complicates balance just for one mechanic which only a fraction of the player base would even appreciate.

 

Agreed. This game has a lot of moving parts - all of which become even more complicated in multiplayer. There's three of us that play with some regularity together and while we usually get to a comfortable place with food at some point, we've seen a pretty significant difference with A18 between the food poisoning and the increased requirements for farming. We're okay with them, but the difference between SP and MP is pretty noticeable. The game, I think, still supports up to 8 players (yes, you can have more but it's kind of at your own risk resource wise). I can't imagine trying to feed eight people who are roughly in the same area, early game and with food spoilage.

[Limdood]

Lots of interesting ideas/concerns so far in this thread but they all get muddy once balance discussions happen. Refrigeration, timers/minutes per day, stacking, bag space, skill trees vs schematics...

 

It is probably why it's not a priority for the devs as it exponentially complicates balance just for one mechanic which only a fraction of the player base would even appreciate.

 

The simple fact is that so many people play this game in such WILDLY different ways, from day lengths, to difficulty level, to playstyle, to preferred activities, to what is fun vs. what is a grind, what constitutes preparation vs. hoarding, that there really isn't going to be a food spoilage mechanic that makes sense. 90% of the playerbase will have food spoil too fast, or too slowly for it to have the desired impact. And that's assuming that it can't be circumvented by loopholes, which, in this game, is a mighty large assumption.

[wizard puke]

I looked up "Ark spoilage" because it was touted as a good example of implementing it in another game. Lol no. No no no.

[AtomicUs5000]

Agreed. This game has a lot of moving parts - all of which become even more complicated in multiplayer. There's three of us that play with some regularity together and while we usually get to a comfortable place with food at some point, we've seen a pretty significant difference with A18 between the food poisoning and the increased requirements for farming. We're okay with them, but the difference between SP and MP is pretty noticeable. The game, I think, still supports up to 8 players (yes, you can have more but it's kind of at your own risk resource wise). I can't imagine trying to feed eight people who are roughly in the same area, early game and with food spoilage.

 

For 8 people in the same area, I would think at least 2 of them would need to be Fortitude builds with Living Off the Land and Huntsman perked up. Very few people would want to put points into these. If 8 people play together regularly, taking turns being the skilled hunter/farmer each playthrough might be necessary. They should be on playing most of the time too, and focusing on their jobs, otherwise two may not even be enough. I would do it. Not exactly a fun role, but in this case a very, very important one.

[Kalen]

I looked up "Ark spoilage" because it was touted as a good example of implementing it in another game. Lol no. No no no.

 

Ark spoilage was actually pretty good, IMO... with one huge exception. The timer continued to run when you were offline. So I'd start up the game the next day and 95% of my food was spoiled. I hated that.

[PPanda0421]

Did it magically appear, or did you earn it?

 

If you earned it, why did you bother getting so much when you plainly didn't need it? You could have spent time doing something more useful. I don't think you need spoilage added to the game, you just need to learn better time management?

 

Of course I earned it. Why would you even ask such a thing when I've discussed my playthrough with you in other threads - I've seen you chimed in some of the threads I've posted. I even specified my days in game (over 100) and that I have huge farms not to mention loads of food.

 

I like to farm, craft food and horde resources so what? Do you have a problem with my playstyle?

 

You think I have bad time management? You the one who complained about resources boulder being removed from the game and prefer to mine what's on the surface whereas underground mining is MUCH more efficient.

 

I don't know what is wrong with you but I've seen your other posts. Why are you always trying to start a fight? People have different playstyles. Just because they differ from yours doesn't mean you should question what they do and how they play.

[warmer]

Well I am not sure if it was already mentioned in this thread, but food spoilage is already in game via the % chance you have of being poisoned from eating cooked or boiling foods vs canned. As someone that has been cooking my own meals most my life, I have NEVER given myself food poisoning. I've been making myself food from scratch for 30 years. It is pretty easy to accomplish if you are careful and follow a few simple rules.

 

I would much rather see a perk gained from a "cook book" that eliminates random poisonings from cooked food, or a perk from Master Chef by level 2 that removes poisoning chance from cooked foods. Spoilage on top of the already broken mechanic would really add insult to injury.

[ktr]

For 8 people in the same area, I would think at least 2 of them would need to be Fortitude builds with Living Off the Land and Huntsman perked up. Very few people would want to put points into these. If 8 people play together regularly, taking turns being the skilled hunter/farmer each playthrough might be necessary. They should be on playing most of the time too, and focusing on their jobs, otherwise two may not even be enough. I would do it. Not exactly a fun role, but in this case a very, very important one.

 

 

Briefly, in A17, I was the sole food provider for a group of 7. The others might find food while picking through trash, finding a rando animal, and birds nests, but ultimately, I was bringing home the proverbial bacon. Let me just say that when I raided a shamway and found a couple of meat stews, I kept them.

 

Cough

[AtomicUs5000]

Briefly, in A17, I was the sole food provider for a group of 7. The others might find food while picking through trash, finding a rando animal, and birds nests, but ultimately, I was bringing home the proverbial bacon. Let me just say that when I raided a shamway and found a couple of meat stews, I kept them.

 

Cough

 

Rightfully so, lol.

[ktr]

Rightfully so, lol.

 

 

Joking aside. I found that I could do passably well on low fortitude (1 or 2 in living off the land, if memory serves), but with a huge farm. I think I had upwards of 20 corn growing and at least ten of every other 'most needed crop'. Then supplement meat by ranging far and wide long into the night (while also keeping a keen eye out for any Bob's Boars). But that would not hold true in A18 with the increase demands on farming. With three ppl, we're not painfully struggling, but I always have an eye on our food stores. If spoilage were A THING, we... well... I'd have to rethink my build MASSIVELY. Much less with 7 ppl.

[wizard puke]

Ark spoilage was actually pretty good, IMO... with one huge exception. The timer continued to run when you were offline. So I'd start up the game the next day and 95% of my food was spoiled. I hated that.

 

So either: A.) It works exactly like that which is super stupid and I will never play a game that makes me "check in" every single day to avoid losing progress because life is more important than a virtual box of virtual meat stew.

B.) It's a logistical nightmare. Who owns the storage unit just the player who made it? What if people are sharing it? What if they're in different time zones? If food only degrades when you are logged in what if someone has multiple accounts and creates one just for building chests and then logs in under another account to actually play giving them infinite food duration on a pvp server?

 

So many added balance issues for a micromanagement headache that the main developer of the game has been against consistently in the past.

[AtomicUs5000]

 

Joking aside. I found that I could do passably well on low fortitude (1 or 2 in living off the land, if memory serves), but with a huge farm. I think I had upwards of 20 corn growing and at least ten of every other 'most needed crop'. Then supplement meat by ranging far and wide long into the night (while also keeping a keen eye out for any Bob's Boars). But that would not hold true in A18 with the increase demands on farming. With three ppl, we're not painfully struggling, but I always have an eye on our food stores. If spoilage were A THING, we... well... I'd have to rethink my build MASSIVELY. Much less with 7 ppl.

 

In A19, or maybe after, I'm pretty sure the best recipes will include both fresh and canned food. Might need to add a third person focused on the recipes for 8 players.

 

I don't know if Hunstman applies to rotten flesh, but even if not I would hit up the Bear Den. There must be enough for 20 plots between the bears and the bodies. I know of the one construction POI that I mentioned before that has a ton of bodies and a single zombie bear. A select few always have a dog. They probably respawn over time, though I never checked. Other than that, I guess everyone would have to hang out in the burnt forest or wasteland and contribute to harvesting the dogs and vultures until the farm was big enough.

 

In the case of spoilage, I think they would have to then add crops dying. Otherwise you would just time your harvests for the meals instead of just harvesting it all in one shot.

 

Here's a question. If spoilage were implemented, what could you do with the spoiled food? Just toss it? Can't really make it a replacement for rotten flesh in farm plots because that would just defeat the purpose of adding it in the first place.

[Kalen]

So either: A.) It works exactly like that which is super stupid and I will never play a game that makes me "check in" every single day to avoid losing progress because life is more important than a virtual box of virtual meat stew.

B.) It's a logistical nightmare. Who owns the storage unit just the player who made it? What if people are sharing it? What if they're in different time zones? If food only degrades when you are logged in what if someone has multiple accounts and creates one just for building chests and then logs in under another account to actually play giving them infinite food duration on a pvp server?

 

So many added balance issues for a micromanagement headache that the main developer of the game has been against consistently in the past.

 

I agree... while I'm not opposed to having food spoilage, I'm not in favor of any of the suggestion proposed so far.

[Kalarro]

No thanks. It could be cool, but the chances are slim. It's very hard to do in a fun way, so I prefer they dont try at all.

 

And funpimps have a tendency of going overboard with everything they do.

- Could you make zombies not get stuck so often? -> total zombi AI rework with X-ray and engineering degree

- Could you put back recipes and firegun parts so we have a reason to go out explore? -> they make killing stuff and looting POIs the onyl worthwhile thing to do, and almost remove crafting from the game in favour of assembling looted parts

 

I really dont want them try to implement food spoilage...

[ZombieSurvivor]

No thanks. It could be cool, but the chances are slim. It's very hard to do in a fun way, so I prefer they dont try at all.

 

And funpimps have a tendency of going overboard with everything they do.

- Could you make zombies not get stuck so often? -> total zombi AI rework with X-ray and engineering degree

- Could you put back recipes and firegun parts so we have a reason to go out explore? -> they make killing stuff and looting POIs the onyl worthwhile thing to do, and almost remove crafting from the game in favour of assembling looted parts

 

I really dont want them try to implement food spoilage...

 

It sounds like you have a very negative view on this game. May I ask why you are still playing it?

When A17 dropped I felt the same way...and stopped playing. Along came A18 and everything is good again, so I'm playing again. Its just a little confusing why someone would still play a product they clearly do not like.

[Kalarro]

It sounds like you have a very negative view on this game. May I ask why you are still playing it?

When A17 dropped I felt the same way...and stopped playing. Along came A18 and everything is good again, so I'm playing again. Its just a little confusing why someone would still play a prodect they clearly do not like.

 

Ive heard this argument a few times and it does not make sense to me. I love 7d2d, it is the best survival game by far, and one of my top 10 games (and Ive played tons of games for 23 years). I also recommend this game to everybody, both in forums and in real life.

 

But that doesnt mean there cant be things I dont like or new developping directions I dislike.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Ive heard this argument a few times and it does not make sense to me. I love 7d2d, it is the best survival game by far, and one of my top 10 games (and Ive played tons of games for 23 years). I also recommend this game to everybody, both in forums and in real life.

 

But that doesnt mean there cant be things I dont like or new developping directions I dislike.

 

Oh ok cool. It sounded kinda like you hate the game because they changed some of the core features you liked. My bad for assuming that. I was genuinely curious. Thank you for the response. *thumbs up*

[Ghostlight]

We can mine any time of day and stamina use is the same no matter what settings you choose.

 

Eh? That makes no sense. If I have 2 hour days and I mine for the entire day, and you have 1 hour days and do the same (with same stats and equipment). Surely by the next day I will have double the resources you have and will have used double the stamina?

 

I stated before that I can fill up in the morning and will be fine until the next morning on 2 hour days.

 

Then already it is confusing. I play on 90 minute days, and if I mine for a full day straight, it takes 3 Meat Stews to return me to 100% Stamina.

[ZombieSurvivor]

Eh? That makes no sense. If I have 2 hour days and I mine for the entire day, and you have 1 hour days and do the same (with same stats and equipment). Surely by the next day I will have double the resources you have and will have used double the stamina?

 

 

 

Then already it is confusing. I play on 90 minute days, and if I mine for a full day straight, it takes 3 Meat Stews to return me to 100% Stamina.

 

^ he has a point. The longer your days are the more food you will be consuming and the less animals will spawn in. overall increasing day length throws crap out of balance.

 

 

 

[Ghostlight]

Of course I earned it. Why would you even ask such a thing when I've discussed my playthrough with you in other threads - I've seen you chimed in some of the threads I've posted. I even specified my days in game (over 100) and that I have huge farms not to mention loads of food.

 

Sorry if it came over abrasive. I was being sarcastic to make my point. Players like yourself who desire spoilage to be added to the game PURELY BECAUSE you report chests full of food, have surely collected too much food?? So why did you do that? It was a genuine question not an attack. Once one of your food chests was even half full, why spend further time/effort collecting more food?

 

You think I have bad time management?

 

Well if you ended up with chests full of food which - let's face it - you will never use up - then I'm afraid I have to answer....yes.

 

You the one who complained about resources boulder being removed from the game and prefer to mine what's on the surface whereas underground mining is MUCH more efficient.

 

I already explained that surface boulder mining was my preferred option because it delivered more than just the final count of resources. Things like FUN, encountering stuff, opening the map and so on. Collecting resources (even if less than pure mining would deliver), getting XP from meeting and killing zombies, looting isolated POIs you'd otherwise never have come across, and generally opening the map up are all things of value to the player, so I would argue that surface boulder mining is a fantastic way to manage your time.