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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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23 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Completely off topic but I'm sure @madmole would find this at least somewhat interesting (if he was still around on this dev diary 😛), but Microsoft has just purchased Bethesda for 7.5 billion dollars. An interesting development...

Yeah I saw that. Pros: Maybe Bethesda won't have to hand hold all the small studios Zenimax bought that make crappy games and delay fallout 5 and ES6, Starfield. Cons: Might see xbox exclusives and PC guys get screwed. Might see new games bundled with their bs subscriptions. Might see the end of mods (not likely as bethesda worked with xbox to get mods on there.)

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1 minute ago, madmole said:

Yeah I saw that. Pros: Maybe Bethesda won't have to hand hold all the small studios Zenimax bought that make crappy games and delay fallout 5 and ES6, Starfield. Cons: Might see xbox exclusives and PC guys get screwed. Might see new games bundled with their bs subscriptions. Might see the end of mods (not likely as bethesda worked with xbox to get mods on there.)

Unless they've been keeping their true intentions to the shadows, then the first part of the cons you listed will not come to pass. For years now Microsoft hasn't been interested in selling hardware, but a service, and that service being Gamepass. They are mostly focused on getting people into their ecosystem. Small correction: some games might be exclusive to Gamepass, which spans both PC and Xbox. Best case scenario in my eyes: most of their games are available on most/all platforms (day 1 or otherwise) but Microsoft rakes in most of the profits. Worst case scenario: Microsoft ruins Bethesda (like that hasn't happened before with some of their previous partnered studios).

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Offtopic, A19.1 stable is out, so enjoy and thank you Pimps ! 

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33 minutes ago, lord_ahriman said:

Is pipe bomb still exploding in our hands in the new stable?


***************************************
the new stable is the a19.1b8 exp

the pipe bomb fix should (hopefully be future build)

:)
QA Tester-unholyjoe
***************************************

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@faatal @Gazz @madmole Question, its a cosmetic thing i was thinking about.

 

When it comes to lighting, i know we have the red blinking lights and stuff, but have you ever thought about making it possible to add the paint we find for our weapons to lights?  I would be neat to have a red hallway and all we have to do is find red dye and equip it onto lights, could that be a thing one day, fyi i have no idea how hard it would be to get the lighting looking good haha

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1 hour ago, unholyjoe said:


***************************************
the new stable is the a19.1b8 exp

the pipe bomb fix should (hopefully be future build)

:)
QA Tester-unholyjoe
***************************************

TELL ME EVERTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT A21!

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3 hours ago, unholyjoe said:


***************************************
the new stable is the a19.1b8 exp

the pipe bomb fix should (hopefully be future build)

:)
QA Tester-unholyjoe
***************************************

Unless it's because I updated and didn't start a new world, I can confirm that the issue with the pipe bomb is not fixed. 😕

Edit: Oh, future build, gotcha.

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On 9/20/2020 at 3:57 AM, Blake_ said:

Predators often get bugged and freeze in place for longer than they should. In my opinion, animals should maintain a coherent distance from the block they are punching/pathing , and not stick their heads or arms into it because their arms or bodies are longer than the block or glitch in place because of things as small as a pole or tiny bars (maybe certain fences, bars or small things they should just instantaneously destroy ).

 

Not many games solve that by properly handling multiblock pathing . None that I remember actually. Hear my crying words , oh, @faatal .

Head offset is generally an issue with the root positions of old art. Root position near front feet would fix that, but you might have lesser butt issues. Low priority, but could be fixed as a part of animal models getting updated someday.

On 9/21/2020 at 1:27 PM, wolfbain5 said:

@faatal @madmole

would you guys be willing to add an xml line to a prefabs  xml file to not allow loot respawn flagging per prefab? story wise I can see this having potential.

Well, it does require code too and we already have a ton of other features queued up.

On 9/20/2020 at 2:23 AM, bdubyah said:

Any chance we could get more sleeper volume triggers? Maybe an "Alert" one that spawns them in wandering around right off the bat? Would be a nice option. :)

We will probably have more choices down the road once we get to it.

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On 9/17/2020 at 10:26 AM, Reckis said:

@faatal

 

Has anyone else been having an issue with the z's seeming like they don't know when to stop moving when attacking you anymore? 

 

Like literally, sometimes (maybe most of the time) they try to walk into me and push me around instead of stopping and attacking like they used to. Seems to happen the most with the ones with more average sizes (cheerleader, business man, etc.), but that might be due to the fact that I rarely let the larger ones get close.

 

Also just remembered that I have seen it at least once with with a biker.

 

Is this an intended change?

Not intended. Saw a similar thing weeks ago, then seemed fine. Could be a side effect of something. I do have a bug with new stripper zombie missing attacks, which may be just her or others also. I will be looking out for weird stuff, like I always do.

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On 9/13/2020 at 2:46 AM, TECHMIKEMWO said:

stop fixing stupid stuff & fix issues with fps, random stupid stuff being fixed isn't  necessary. jeez

Do you know that this is a team with many different skill sets, like pretty much every game team? Most people on the team can't fix FPS issues, so they do spent their time working on their "stupid" stuff.

 

FPS issues don't have an "I Win" button you can press to make it all better. It takes lots of time to analyze performance and find bottlenecks, which then often have no easy fix, but to rewrite and retest something, which often results in minimal gains. Features have maximum limits at which they can be optimized to run.

 

I've actually been spending half my time the last few weeks doing that and cleaning up the project of old/unused files. For example, I found an old unneeded water depth camera, that was rendering nothing each frame. After time spend researching it, removing and testing, I saw a 3% FPS gain. Not much. Path grid updates have also been optimized, which is not something increasing overall FPS, but reduces frame spikes. Terrain shader has been updated for good gains. Tree batching/instancing is being analyzed and tweaked. To get large gains, you have to do that over and over on many systems. Today I started moving many of those improvements to 19.2 for testing, so the next exp will have them.

Edited by faatal (see edit history)
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12 hours ago, madmole said:

Yeah I saw that. Pros: Maybe Bethesda won't have to hand hold all the small studios Zenimax bought that make crappy games and delay fallout 5 and ES6, Starfield. Cons: Might see xbox exclusives and PC guys get screwed. Might see new games bundled with their bs subscriptions. Might see the end of mods (not likely as bethesda worked with xbox to get mods on there.)

Microsoft has said they intend to at least honor current promises.

 

They also said at a different time that all future exclusive would be for both Xbox and Windows. That could still screw Sony, Nintendo, Linux and Mac though.

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1 hour ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

Microsoft has said they intend to at least honor current promises.

 

They also said at a different time that all future exclusive would be for both Xbox and Windows. That could still screw Sony, Nintendo, Linux and Mac though.

Given that Microsoft's goal is getting as many players into their ecosystem as possible, I don't see them not making future IP's or future installments into current IP's that Bethesda produces into Gamepass exclusives, especially given the bloated investment they just sealed. But yes, they will honor Bethesda's current promises.

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5 hours ago, faatal said:

FPS issues don't have an "I Win" button you can press to make it all better. It takes lots of time to analyze performance and find bottlenecks, which then often have no easy fix, but to rewrite and retest something, which often results in minimal gains. Features have maximum limits at which they can be optimized to run.

 

I've actually been spending half my time the last few weeks doing that and cleaning up the project of old/unused files. For example, I found an old unneeded water depth camera, that was rendering nothing each frame. After time spend researching it, removing and testing, I saw a 3% FPS gain. Not much. Path grid updates have also been optimized, which is not something increasing overall FPS, but reduces frame spikes. Terrain shader has been updated for good gains. Tree batching/instancing is being analyzed and tweaked. To get large gains, you have to do that over and over on many systems. Today I started moving many of those improvements to 19.2 for testing, so the next exp will have them.

Hi again @faatal  Check this out !

Spoiler

19.1 is still going poorly for me. The highest problem is chunk writing and DECO writing followed by music and then some other minor stuff that I talk about briefly at the end of this post. After analyzing it a bit more, the main causes of freezes for me are:

 

BIGGEST PROBLEMS (point 2 every few seconds):

 

1-Chunk writing took X milliseconds (for me, it takes 80 -120 milliseconds). This issue generates a "freeze" equivalent roughly to 10 times more than the average input lag of a mouse PLUS some other factors that I assume  are combined with the point 2 issue , so I get a freeze of around 3 seconds every time Chunk writing happens just alone (5+ seconds if combined with others).

 

2-DECO written. The handling of the loading and unloading of assets generates mostly a sustained overhead, but nothing like this word. Whenever DECO writes , my computer freezes for 3-5 seconds. Sadly, that happens every few seconds.

 

LESSER PROBLEMS:

 

3- Music handling generates little freezes whenever it transitions, pauses or notifies something. It could use some optimizations. The music-related freezes generate a 2 freeze if alone, but it rarely happens alone, as the DECO problem is everywhere, so up to 5 seconds freeze generally.

 

4-Sleeper spawning on a multibuilding area. When simultaneously spawning more than one area full of sleepers belonging to different POIs, bumps can get real. If combined with the DECO problem, the freeze is also 3-5 seconds.

 

 

You can clearly see a pattern here. This are my specs.

 

Playing the game in LOWEST SETTINGS 800x600 resolution. But resolution is actually not the problem here, as I can set it to 1920x1080 no problem, with the exact same bumps and general performance . So GPU is not the problem here.

 

 

GPU: GTX 780M 4GB VRAM

CPU: Intel Core i7 4800MQ // 2.70GHz

8GB RAM DDR 3 (800MHZ//800MHZ ----> 1,6GHZ)

HDD It's a 7200rpm 750gb    https://www.hdsentinel.com/storageinfo_details.php?lang=en&model=HITACHI%20HTS727575A9E364 

 

I assume that, while my specs are above minimum, the game is actually struggling with writing speeds.

Not a great HDD, not an awful one either.

My GPU does not struggle in the slightest in open landscape. When DECO /chunks write, my game freezes. 100% of the time.

RAM does not give me a problem either.

CPU is ok. I mean I suffer a substantial drop when  Structural Integrity calculations happen after collapsing stuff, but it's actually limited in the amount of calculated blocks at a given time, so I don't really freeze completely. 

 

Now, I post it here because this is not a bug, but a performance issue. A video would not properly show the general performance either. Do you need me to make a ticket about this, or are you already aware of all of the above ? I can test performance whenever you need me to. I just want to play alpha 19, and I can't.

 

 

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22 hours ago, beerfly said:

Offtopic, A19.1 stable is out, so enjoy and thank you Pimps ! 

you know what A20 needs

 

Spoiler

UNFROZEN LUMBERJACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So they can bully People who just live in the forest... IE ME!

 

Edited by Adam the Waster (see edit history)
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10 hours ago, Eighmy_Lupin said:

Microsoft has said they intend to at least honor current promises.

 

They also said at a different time that all future exclusive would be for both Xbox and Windows. That could still screw Sony, Nintendo, Linux and Mac though.

As long as I can get Fallout 5, Elderscrolls 6 on PC and mods I'll be happy.

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13 hours ago, faatal said:

It takes lots of time to analyze performance and find bottlenecks, which then often have no easy fix, but to rewrite and retest something, which often results in minimal gains. 

[...cut list with lots of boring technical examples...🤭]

...so I guess it would be an absolute win win thing if you:

 

-immediately stop wasting your time into hard work with almost no gain

-->TFP saves a big pile of money

-->you have more time for things where your skills are not wasted

--> you be more happy and live longer cause you don't have to do all that frustrating "analyse, rewrite, retest, damn doesn't do anything" thing

-->TFP give away big pile of money to the players, so they can afford better hardware,

      which will directly result in a real big performance plus.

 

BAM, problem solved.

 

Yes, I'm brilliant.

 

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19 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

...so I guess it would be an absolute win win thing if you:

 

-immediately stop wasting your time into hard work with almost no gain

-->TFP saves a big pile of money

-->you have more time for things where your skills are not wasted

--> you be more happy and live longer cause you don't have to do all that frustrating "analyse, rewrite, retest, damn doesn't do anything" thing

-->TFP give away big pile of money to the players, so they can afford better hardware,

      which will directly result in a real big performance plus.

 

BAM, problem solved.

 

Yes, I'm brilliant.

 

Not a win for a lot of people, since a primary complaint is performance.

I actually enjoy optimizing code. One of my favorite things to do, because sometimes you do find that big win and multiple small gains together do lead to moderate gains.
Updating our terrain shader got me 15 to 20 more FPS at 4k. That is a big gain and definitely worth it.

 

You often don't know how it will turn out until you do it. That is life.

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7 minutes ago, faatal said:

Not a win for a lot of people, since a primary complaint is performance.

I actually enjoy optimizing code. One of my favorite things to do, because sometimes you do find that big win and multiple small gains together do lead to moderate gains.
Updating our terrain shader got me 15 to 20 more FPS at 4k. That is a big gain and definitely worth it.

 

You often don't know how it will turn out until you do it. That is life.

I forgot to show you this beauty on my performance post. Take a look at those gorgeous bumps of "606 ms saving the chunks" ((EDIT: last line of code in the console)) while that amount (135) should take on average no more than 80ms. It's a common freeze when walking through the world and quite intense.

 

20200923184019_1.thumb.jpg.9921da4c5eb025e6961680b9a2ec921b.jpg

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)

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8 hours ago, Blake_ said:

Hi again @faatal  Check this out !

  Hide contents

19.1 is still going poorly for me. The highest problem is chunk writing and DECO writing followed by music and then some other minor stuff that I talk about briefly at the end of this post. After analyzing it a bit more, the main causes of freezes for me are:

 

BIGGEST PROBLEMS (point 2 every few seconds):

 

1-Chunk writing took X milliseconds (for me, it takes 80 -120 milliseconds). This issue generates a "freeze" equivalent roughly to 10 times more than the average input lag of a mouse PLUS some other factors that I assume  are combined with the point 2 issue , so I get a freeze of around 3 seconds every time Chunk writing happens just alone (5+ seconds if combined with others).

 

2-DECO written. The handling of the loading and unloading of assets generates mostly a sustained overhead, but nothing like this word. Whenever DECO writes , my computer freezes for 3-5 seconds. Sadly, that happens every few seconds.

 

LESSER PROBLEMS:

 

3- Music handling generates little freezes whenever it transitions, pauses or notifies something. It could use some optimizations. The music-related freezes generate a 2 freeze if alone, but it rarely happens alone, as the DECO problem is everywhere, so up to 5 seconds freeze generally.

 

4-Sleeper spawning on a multibuilding area. When simultaneously spawning more than one area full of sleepers belonging to different POIs, bumps can get real. If combined with the DECO problem, the freeze is also 3-5 seconds.

 

 

You can clearly see a pattern here. This are my specs.

 

Playing the game in LOWEST SETTINGS 800x600 resolution. But resolution is actually not the problem here, as I can set it to 1920x1080 no problem, with the exact same bumps and general performance . So GPU is not the problem here.

 

 

GPU: GTX 780M 4GB VRAM

CPU: Intel Core i7 4800MQ // 2.70GHz

8GB RAM DDR 3 (800MHZ//800MHZ ----> 1,6GHZ)

HDD It's a 7200rpm 750gb    https://www.hdsentinel.com/storageinfo_details.php?lang=en&model=HITACHI%20HTS727575A9E364 

 

I assume that, while my specs are above minimum, the game is actually struggling with writing speeds.

Not a great HDD, not an awful one either.

My GPU does not struggle in the slightest in open landscape. When DECO /chunks write, my game freezes. 100% of the time.

RAM does not give me a problem either.

CPU is ok. I mean I suffer a substantial drop when  Structural Integrity calculations happen after collapsing stuff, but it's actually limited in the amount of calculated blocks at a given time, so I don't really freeze completely. 

 

Now, I post it here because this is not a bug, but a performance issue. A video would not properly show the general performance either. Do you need me to make a ticket about this, or are you already aware of all of the above ? I can test performance whenever you need me to. I just want to play alpha 19, and I can't.

 

 

I played the game on a HD up until maybe a year ago. I did not have write issues as you describe. I would suspect your hardware/software.

 

Do you have a good amount of free drive space? Free up space and defrag the drive.

Is your antivirus software aggressively scanning written data? Try excluding the save folders.

Is your free RAM low when playing? Shut down other programs and/or background tasks.

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27 minutes ago, faatal said:

I played the game on a HD up until maybe a year ago. I did not have write issues as you describe. I would suspect your hardware/software.

 

Do you have a good amount of free drive space? Free up space and defrag the drive.

Is your antivirus software aggressively scanning written data? Try excluding the save folders.

Is your free RAM low when playing? Shut down other programs and/or background tasks.

Sadly none of the above. Maybe fragmentation ? . My hard drive is 200 gigs free. I absolutely manage every startup programs to only 1 (ccleaner) which I always close (from the task manager). I only use the antivirus once every 3 days and then uninstall it completely. Defender is naked and all allowed when playing. 5 gigs of RAM free when playing. It goes up as time passes though. The game only bumbs hard when writting chunks. Bumbs soft when (insert the common issues that I've already mentioned).

 

 

 

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Sadly none of the above. Maybe fragmentation ? . My hard drive is 200 gigs free. I absolutely manage every startup programs to only 1 (ccleaner) which I always close (from the task manager). I only use the antivirus once every 3 days and then uninstall it completely. Defender is naked and all allowed when playing. 

See if you can free up more of that hard drive, if it's less than 50% free on that style, you can get degraded performance, also, look into increasing your ram if you can. Most of the folks I know running 8 gigs of ram have issues the longer the play session is. If you're using a NitroGen map, don't. That really eats ram space and causing frequent lag/crashes

 

Edit: can someone clarify if virtual memory can affect this?

Edited by redneckraccoon
added more (see edit history)
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