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39 minutes ago, sgr said:

I just tested ammo types. Result: HP ammo always cause more damage. To soldiers, demolitions, football zombies too. Can anybody explain this? Zombies has no armor?

i used hp ammo on a soldier zombie. periodically, I would hear a ricochet sound and emptied the clip into him. I knocked him on his ass, but wouldnt die. heard maybe 13 ricochets at that time. swapped to melee to kill him. I think that hp ammo may have a chance to not damage them if they are the "armored" types. but ap ammo ignores it? I am in no way certain of this. but it would account for the sound and sometimes no damage to soldiers using 9mm hp ammo.

3 hours ago, Eko said:

Is this true? I thought the devs were supportive of mods? They pretty much invite it, I thought? Surely, making suggestions from mods that worked really well is allowed and accepted??


EDIT: OH MY GOD I FOUND THE MULTIQUOTE BUTTON SORRY FOR MY PREVIOUS SPAMMAGE =/

only in this channel. is that mostly true. many times MM has gotten.. upset? over discussing mods in here. They do support mods tho, it's why we have the tools and  a whole forum section elsewhere.

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24 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

i used hp ammo on a soldier zombie. periodically, I would hear a ricochet sound and emptied the clip into him. I knocked him on his ass, but wouldnt die. heard maybe 13 ricochets at that time.

I was in a cheatmode and i've seen hp bars. There were no ricochets at all, HP bullets dealt the same amount damage each shot.

When i shot Demolition Zombie i heard metal sound aswell, but hpbar showed me that damage was still better than AP 7,62

Edited by sgr (see edit history)
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20 minutes ago, sgr said:

I was in a cheatmode and i've seen hp bars. There were no ricochets at all, HP bullets dealt the same amount damage each shot.

When i shot Demolition Zombie i heard metal sound aswell, but hpbar showed me that damage was still better than AP 7,62

did you have any points in penetrator?

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9 hours ago, sgr said:

I just tested ammo types. Result: HP ammo always cause more damage. To soldiers, demolitions, football zombies too. Can anybody explain this? Zombies has no armor?

The balancing of the ammo is off, yes. HP is always superior even with armor ricocheting. There are Zds with armor, like the military one. Until we get proper armored bandits and npcs, the ammo problem isn't that big. As Todd Howard would say: 

"It just works".

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)
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35 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

The balancing of the ammo off, yes. HP is always superior even with armor ricocheting. There are Zds with armor, like the military one. Until we get proper armored bandits and npcs, the ammo problem isn't that big. As Todd Howard would say: 

"It just works".

I compared normal ammo and ap ammo aswell. They deal the same amount of damage, both to soldiers and demolition guys (who always make metal impact sound). So my result HP - best no matter what, AP is the waste of powder against single targets (any targets), and only penetration make those not being an absolute crap.

Edited by sgr (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, wolfbain5 said:

i used hp ammo on a soldier zombie. periodically, I would hear a ricochet sound and emptied the clip into him. I knocked him on his ass, but wouldnt die. heard maybe 13 ricochets at that time. swapped to melee to kill him. I think that hp ammo may have a chance to not damage them if they are the "armored" types. but ap ammo ignores it? I am in no way certain of this. but it would account for the sound and sometimes no damage to soldiers using 9mm hp ammo.

only in this channel. is that mostly true. many times MM has gotten.. upset? over discussing mods in here. They do support mods tho, it's why we have the tools and  a whole forum section elsewhere.

This issue was reported way before , during experimental- to the TESTERS. The real issue is that they assumed "its a PVP bug""Oh that can wait""We dont play pvp who cares?" : What they failed to realize this bug effects everyone not just PVP players but PVE servers to. This alone goes to show the preference they have in pve over pvp. I'd highly recommend the pimps to add at least one person to their testing team who plays PVP. It so bias the way the testers feel towards pvp.

 

All Testing done against Steel Armor 13 dmg with + 2 banded armor Total 76 armor value
at 1 blockk range, Difficulty is Survivalist
with level 1 characters with no perks or stats

7.62 AK no mods, base dmg of 55 

 

Chest
7.62     13dmg
7.62 HP  18dmg
7.62 AP  13dmg

 

Headshot
7.62     25dmg
7.62 HP  36dmg
7.62 AP  25dmg

 

TLDR, AP ammo is the same as regular ammo, HP ammo is applying the bonus HP dmg with no penalties due to the issues with armor modifiers on bullets,.
 
 

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46 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

This issue was reported way before , during experimental- to the TESTERS. The real issue is that they assumed "its a PVP bug""Oh that can wait""We dont play pvp who cares?" : What they failed to realize this bug effects everyone not just PVP players but PVE servers to. This alone goes to show the preference they have in pve over pvp. I'd highly recommend the pimps to add at least one person to their testing team who plays PVP. It so bias the way the testers feel towards pvp.

 

All Testing done against Steel Armor 13 dmg with + 2 banded armor Total 76 armor value
at 1 blockk range, Difficulty is Survivalist
with level 1 characters with no perks or stats

7.62 AK no mods, base dmg of 55 

 

Chest
7.62     13dmg
7.62 HP  18dmg
7.62 AP  13dmg

 

Headshot
7.62     25dmg
7.62 HP  36dmg
7.62 AP  25dmg

 

TLDR, AP ammo is the same as regular ammo, HP ammo is applying the bonus HP dmg with no penalties due to the issues with armor modifiers on bullets,.
 
 

The bug is evident in PvE too. But your conclusion is that TFP needs a PvP tester for this then. Strange logic.

 

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16 minutes ago, meganoth said:

The bug is evident in PvE too. But your conclusion is that TFP needs a PvP tester for this then. Strange logic.

 

My logic comes from 18800Capturegrandpa.PNG.25f96772e78a0451a4497fc0aa19b4cc.PNG+ hours in this game while witnessing it first hand how the Testers are bias towards anything PVP. Like i told you they push pvp bugs to the bottom of list anytime a pvp player reports it. It also comes from the 1800+ players in our discord most who have thousands of hours playing this game. Not to mention anybody else who plays pvp and has had to deal with the same bias over the years.

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9 hours ago, Eko said:

Why I don't think FTS is a viable skill:
Without pumping any points into stealth skills, I feel just as effective with my bow, silenced pistol, and knife, as I do with maxed out stealth skills and the same tools (in POIs). Heck, pop a squat (or don't, there's not much difference) with a shotgun and take a POI with no points in stealth or shotguns and you will be more effective than a bowman with 3 levels in archery and from the shadows. Because the hard-coded wake up sleepers don't care about your stealth, nor do the outside zombies, and the sleepers that are SUPPOSED to wake up don't until you're basically on top of them anyway - at which point the proximity wake up goes off and springs you regardless of stealth. 

I tested out stealth quite a bit after several complaints; from the shadows works rather well. Besides sneaking, without the perk zombies would wake up and hear me shooting silenced weapons, with it, barely heard a thing. Those attack volume sleepers you say break stealth can be negated by, at quite a few points in testing it, simply moving a little bit crouched and they'll lose track of you letting you get that sneak damage again on it. Several times I was sneaking right next to a zombie that charged at me. If you could never wake up attack volume zombies and have it just as good as it is now, from the shadows would be a stupid thing not to take, because you could just crouch-sprint through every poi in the game.

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1 hour ago, Grandpa Minion said:

My logic comes from 18800Capturegrandpa.PNG.25f96772e78a0451a4497fc0aa19b4cc.PNG+ hours in this game while witnessing it first hand how the Testers are bias towards anything PVP. Like i told you they push pvp bugs to the bottom of list anytime a pvp player reports it. It also comes from the 1800+ players in our discord most who have thousands of hours playing this game. Not to mention anybody else who plays pvp and has had to deal with the same bias over the years.

The devs have been pretty consistent  with their message that PVP is not their main focus right now but will get to it eventually.  Has nothing to do with tester bias.  To your main concern regarding AP ammo, the issue is already confirmed and hopefully a fix will come soon.  Patience is a virtue.  😁

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I feel like we need more block options in the Wood Frame menu. Some are missing, like you need to use a rebar frame or a cobblestone block to craft it, like the wood incline wedge. Its exclusion seems without a good reason to me, probably wouldn't take much company elbow grease to implement all the available shapes into the wood frame block menu, either. 

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Okay, for those wondering where the heck to find the bug report portion of the forum there used to be a banner at the top of the page with the link and a visible sub forum in the PC section of the main forum (not currently from what I can see). The people saying "post it to the bugs forum" probably haven't noticed the change. Workaround to get to the bug reports section is here:

 

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2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

The devs have been pretty consistent  with their message that PVP is not their main focus right now but will get to it eventually.  Has nothing to do with tester bias.  To your main concern regarding AP ammo, the issue is already confirmed and hopefully a fix will come soon.  Patience is a virtue.  😁

YOU are a virtue ! :violin:

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11 hours ago, Eko said:

Is this true? I thought the devs were supportive of mods? They pretty much invite it, I thought? Surely, making suggestions from mods that worked really well is allowed and accepted??

The devs are very supportive of mods and have designed their game as a platform that encourages it. However, mods are not the official development direction of TFP and this particular thread is for asking questions and receiving answers from the developers regarding the official development of the game. So bringing up mods here is discouraged. The devs have their roadmap planned. They know exactly what they want to put into the game and how they want to go about it. So they really aren't taking suggestions from mods. They support their existence but don't want to field a whole bunch of "Darkness Falls does A, B, C so could you put that in the main game?" type of questions or comments. Their answer is going to be for you to go play Darkness Falls to experience A, B. and C since it is there for you to download. 

 

Really, at this point in development, they are past the point of taking suggestions at all for new features. They still want feedback regarding balance and pacing and of course bug reports. But for feature suggestions they are going to stick with their own list that they already have and encourage us to mod in features we want that they aren't planning.

50 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Okay, for those wondering where the heck to find the bug report portion of the forum there used to be a banner at the top of the page with the link and a visible sub forum in the PC section of the main forum (not currently from what I can see). The people saying "post it to the bugs forum" probably haven't noticed the change. Workaround to get to the bug reports section is here:

 

I didn't realize the Bug Report forum is not visible any longer. I see it still but I suppose it must be gone. To my eyes, the banner and the forum were redundant but I will return the banner for ease of reporting since nobody else can see the bug report forum.

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1 hour ago, Roland said:

Really, at this point in development, they are past the point of taking suggestions at all for new features. They still want feedback regarding balance and pacing and of course bug reports. But for feature suggestions they are going to stick with their own list that they already have and encourage us to mod in features we want that they aren't planning.

I figured as much, I think this should also be pinned to the pimp dreams forum (as not to invite too many thoughts for new ideas) 

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41 minutes ago, Noctoras said:

I figured as much, I think this should also be pinned to the pimp dreams forum (as not to invite too many thoughts for new ideas) 

Thats a great point.  I hope that forum is still good for ideas for their next game or DLC.  If so, that would encourage people to continue posting their ideas in there.  For those that are not aware, there is a discussion and request sub forum for Mods, so thats also a great place to submit ideas.

 

https://community.7daystodie.com/forum/40-discussion-and-requests/

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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11 hours ago, sgr said:

I just tested ammo types. Result: HP ammo always cause more damage. To soldiers, demolitions, football zombies too. Can anybody explain this? Zombies has no armor?

I ain't no gun nut but damage from bullets usually comes in two forms.  Penetrative damage from having a large lump of metal forcibly making its way through you and hydrostatic damage from the shockwave of a bullet passing through flesh, muscle and organs.

 

Bones are the difference here, they're surprisingly good at stopping bullets.  It's the damage to the intervening flesh and organs that normally kills you, whether this would be as applicable to something that's already dead is a matter of debate.

 

A dum-dum bullet will more than likely stick in a bone.

A standard round will more than likely bounce off a bone.

An armour-piercing round will more than likely go through a bone, shattering it in the process.

 

 

Edited by The Gronk (see edit history)
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Whoot! Looking forwards to next stable. :D

 

Quote
  • We found Tim the Toolman Taylor's toolbelt and gave it to players allowing you to carry 10 instead of 8 slots

Unless they nicked 2 slots from the backpack, this is 2 more slots till a lowbie gets encumbered (on top of everything else it helps out). Neat.

Edited by hiemfire (see edit history)
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