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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


madmole

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7 minutes ago, Gazz said:

Some people like to brush over the fact that "stealth" is not a weapon, implying that if "stealth fails" you are helpless.

The agility attribute does have plenty of effective weapons to kill zombies with, stealth or no stealth.

Not brushing over it. Stealth is a play style as well as a tool.

When that tool fails, resulting in every thing that hinges on it being shut off, despite every indication it'll work and it is what you're basing your play through on then it guts the playthrough.

 

Your second line is basically saying "Don't build for it, do this instead.". Sort of like, in the hypothetical, replying "Just spec shotgun." when someone is pointing out that MGs aren't pushing damage through.

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3 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Not brushing over it. Stealth is a play style as well as a tool.

When that tool fails, resulting in every thing that hinges on it being shut off, despite every indication it'll work and it is what you're basing your play through on then it guts the playthrough.

 

Your second line is basically saying "Don't build for it, do this instead.". Sort of like, in the hypothetical, replying "Just spec shotgun." when someone is pointing out that MGs aren't pushing damage through.

No. He's saying use the other aspects of what you ARE speccing into. Which btw is NOT stealth, it is Agility.

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6 hours ago, meganoth said:

Now I still am right because any weapon with a silencer IS part of a stealth core build (in this game), and that includes quite a lot of guns. If you think it is not, please explain

 

I would be annoyed if any rifle could effectively be silenced in the game.

The bullet of an AK going past you sounds like a firecracker going off.  

But I'm all for any subsonic round being silenced and would be perfect for a stealth build.

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3 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

No. He's saying use the other aspects of what you ARE speccing into. Which btw is NOT stealth, it is Agility.

Then the assumption it is based on is flawed. I'm not mono-focused on building from that Attribute despite making use of the 2 weapon types I chose and grabbing the Stealth based perks (HS and FTS).

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2 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

I would be annoyed if any rifle could effectively be silenced in the game.

The bullet of an AK going past you sounds like a firecracker going off.  

But I'm all for any subsonic round being silenced and would be perfect for a stealth build.

Nonetheless, if all zombies should be able to hear you fire a gun that is attached with a silencer, then why equip the silencer in the first place? Just some food for thought.

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39 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Nonetheless, if all zombies should be able to hear you fire a gun that is attached with a silencer, then why equip the silencer in the first place? Just some food for thought.

Maybe they should make silencer work better and be a pistol exclusive thing? For gameplay sake

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1 hour ago, Gazz said:

Some people like to brush over the fact that "stealth" is not a weapon, implying that if "stealth fails" you are helpless.

The agility attribute does have plenty of effective weapons to kill zombies with, stealth or no stealth.

 

When I was testing stealth, I put all my points in hidden strike and from the shadows, so I was almost helpless when I hit scripted aggro, because I was basically just a guy with a quality 1 bow, lel. 

 

Stealth also seems to work just as well without from the shadows, so stealth is not really even an agility thing, other than a place to waste some points.  Hidden strike is okay though. 

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1 hour ago, hiemfire said:

1. Older large POI with allot of "room" to move. The issues arise when you don't have that space and trigger an auto aggro volume.

2. This option doesn't exist in allot of the places with the auto aggro volumes. 

3. Try with padded and blades/archery and no tier 3 equip... (the journey getting to the point you tested at is just as important as what you tested)

You missed where I maxed the difficulty+speed out and hit end game gamestage to get some of the hardest sleeper spawns. As I said before, if you wish to roleplay only blades and archery with stealth and refuse to use anything else then that's a self imposed gimp... The desert vulture with a silencer wouldn't wake up sleepers, that right there will clean out auto aggro volumes; but if you must only use blades and a bow, then that's not a game balance issue. Food for thought.

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1 hour ago, pregnable said:

 

When I was testing stealth, I put all my points in hidden strike and from the shadows, so I was almost helpless when I hit scripted aggro, because I was basically just a guy with a quality 1 bow, lel. 

 

Stealth also seems to work just as well without from the shadows, so stealth is not really even an agility thing, other than a place to waste some points.  Hidden strike is okay though. 

Your missing one of the best parts of From the Shadows which is that it lowers the time it takes Zombies to forget about you. Which comes in handy when ever you draw too much attention and want to escape. Just run around a corner or out of line of sight and toss a rock to draw them to where the rock lands. At which point you just need to wait for them to forget you and return to their spawn then you can reengage them with sneak attacks. Which also works on the auto aggro sleepers as Jugginator pointed out grant it that is as long as you have a way to break line of sight.

 

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13 minutes ago, Danidas said:

Your missing one of the best parks of From the Shadows which is that is lowers the time it takes Zombies to forget about you. Which comes in handy when ever you draw too much attention and want to escape. Just run around a corner or out of line of sight and toss a rock to draw them to where the rock lands. At which point you just need to wait for them to forget you and return to their spawn then you can reengage them with sneak attacks. Which also works on the auto aggro sleeps as Jugginator pointed out grant it that is as long as you have a way to break line of sight.

 

 

I mean, it seems interesting... but I can kinda do the same thing by just escaping and hiding, without from the shadows. 

 

I did that early game with a dog on my stealth run, but he never even returned to a state where I could sneak attack him.  Meh. 

43 minutes ago, Jugginator said:

You missed where I maxed the difficulty+speed out and hit end game gamestage to get some of the hardest sleeper spawns. As I said before, if you wish to roleplay only blades and archery with stealth and refuse to use anything else then that's a self imposed gimp... The desert vulture with a silencer wouldn't wake up sleepers, that right there will clean out auto aggro volumes; but if you must only use blades and a bow, then that's not a game balance issue. Food for thought.

 

You should try and do the same thing, but without any stealth skill.  I am curious if you even see a difference at all. 

 

If you want to go the extra mile and try it with another silenced weapon, like a pump shotgun, that would be interesting as well. 

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You guys are all discussing if stealth gameplay is viable or not or if it's better than others or not.

But most still ignore the fact that there are still many broken mechanics pertaining a stealth approach to the game.

 

So, as I said in my first post on the matter: keep ignoring problems and I'm sure the game will become better thanks to your "help".

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24 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

You guys are all discussing if stealth gameplay is viable or not or if it's better than others or not.

But most still ignore the fact that there are still many broken mechanics pertaining a stealth approach to the game.

 

So, as I said in my first post on the matter: keep ignoring problems and I'm sure the game will become better thanks to your "help".

 

I was trying to help by pointing out that from the shadows does not really seem to do anything. 

 

Then maybe people would notice that stealth works just as well with a shotgun in a lot of places and see some of the problems. 

 

I feel like I am doing a bad job though, lel. 

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47 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

You guys are all discussing if stealth gameplay is viable or not or if it's better than others or not.

But most still ignore the fact that there are still many broken mechanics pertaining a stealth approach to the game.

 

So, as I said in my first post on the matter: keep ignoring problems and I'm sure the game will become better thanks to your "help".

Which belong in the bug report thread and are not really feedback. 

 

  

6 minutes ago, mr.devolver said:

Guys, I'm not sure if this is intended or a bug, but when I'm crouched and throw a spear, I get no bonus from From the Shadows perk. When I use a bow in the same situation, I get the bonus from that perk.


From the Shadows only makes you harder to detect and makes Zombies forget about you faster. It has no effect on damage as that is the point of the Hidden Strike perk. Also Bows, Crossbows, and Knives all have built in sneak attack damage bonuses baked into their stats. Which Spears do not have so only Hidden Strike will effect it by adding extra sneak attack damage.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Danidas said:

From the Shadows only makes you harder to detect and makes Zombies forget about you faster. It has no effect on damage as that is the point of the Hidden Strike perk. Also Bows, Crossbows, and Knives all have built in sneak attack damage bonuses baked into their stats. Which Spears do not have so only Hidden Strike will effect it by adding extra sneak attack damage.

No, it won't - see my post again, I mistakenly wrote "From the Shadows" when I meant to write "Hidden Strike".

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49 minutes ago, pregnable said:

You should try and do the same thing, but without any stealth skill.  I am curious if you even see a difference at all. 

 

If you want to go the extra mile and try it with another silenced weapon, like a pump shotgun, that would be interesting as well. 

Just did, very nice idea. Without any stealth, the difference was rather noticeable. The silencer had an obvious help, but I was waking up quite a bit up in each room although it did prevent the adjacent room and things outside from coming to me. Same for the crossbow, although it was a bit sneakier. With perks, the tac rifle and ak47 were slightly more audible than the Vulture, but as long as I let the bar cooldown for a moment in between shots I was fine. The shotgun was about the same, although I think the pellet ricochet was waking things up sometimes.

 

One funny moment was in a room with 4 sleepers next to each other. Shot one from a distance with the shotty and he didn't die and ran right to me, put his back against my face and stood there not noticing me. Got another sneak bonus then picked off the rest one by one. Fun times. OP times, but fun.

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25 minutes ago, Jugginator said:

Just did, very nice idea. Without any stealth, the difference was rather noticeable. The silencer had an obvious help, but I was waking up quite a bit up in each room although it did prevent the adjacent room and things outside from coming to me. Same for the crossbow, although it was a bit sneakier. With perks, the tac rifle and ak47 were slightly more audible than the Vulture, but as long as I let the bar cooldown for a moment in between shots I was fine. The shotgun was about the same, although I think the pellet ricochet was waking things up sometimes.

 

One funny moment was in a room with 4 sleepers next to each other. Shot one from a distance with the shotty and he didn't die and ran right to me, put his back against my face and stood there not noticing me. Got another sneak bonus then picked off the rest one by one. Fun times. OP times, but fun.

 

Yeah, I know the way some of the POIs are set up you can just do it sneaky with a un-silenced shotgun without any from the shadows, which is related to some of the issues Jost talks about. 

 

One funny thing you can do is get sneak attack kills with robotic sledges.  It would be super funny to do a sneaky build where you have hidden strike and only use robotic sledges, heh. 

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13 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

Im finding it hard to justify From the Shadows even on my agility run

 

Yeah, just get parkour. 

 

If you get into trouble just place a wood frame ramp on the wall of any POI at a height of 3 and jump on it.  Then shoot from relative safety. 

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I wonder how it would be like if they removed all sneak attack damage from everything but weapons that come with a built in bonus. As well as up their noise so that it was pointless to use them in sneak. However investing in From the Shadows and Hidden Strike will restore them to how they are now and using a silencer as well. In fact as a bonus buff the effectiveness of the silencer with just the pistol and to a lesser extend the SMG. While removing the ability to use the silencer with Magnums or Desert Vultures. 

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I think sneak should be an all in one perk after all (quieter actions, more base stealth, faster stealth movement, and sneak damage) 

It is useless in pvp, horde night, and semi-useless in auto aggro triggers so as a niche skill, costing 5 points for all of that is fine and makes it more reasonable. Wouldnt mind if stealth damage was lowered to +150% or +125% from the perk at rank 5 to compensate.

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7 hours ago, Jugginator said:

Really op/funny to pick off a whole pack of sleepers one by one.

I just did that with the POI that is a "haunted house" with the lab down below (the one where you can just break the porch to immediately get to the main loot).

 

I don't have anything in From The Shadows (or maybe just one point? can't remember). But I put a few points into Hidden Strike and it's pretty powerful. With the compound bow or crossbow and iron ammo, you can one-shot cops. (EDIT: and most radiated zombies.) Cleared out the entire downstairs section without waking up anyone except the zombie inside the glass chamber (since you can't get to him without breaking the glass).

 

To me, putting a point into each is a must-have early game. Clearing out a POI when you have next to nothing is pretty risky business, I go stealth as much as possible at that point.

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6 hours ago, pregnable said:

 

When I was testing stealth, I put all my points in hidden strike and from the shadows, so I was almost helpless when I hit scripted aggro, because I was basically just a guy with a quality 1 bow, lel. 

 

Stealth also seems to work just as well without from the shadows, so stealth is not really even an agility thing, other than a place to waste some points.  Hidden strike is okay though. 

Judging by a lot of the perks and the perk books, perhaps Agility is best suited for nighttime raiding?

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2 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Judging by a lot of the perks and the perk books, perhaps Agility is best suited for nighttime raiding?

Thats what i am thinking, i don't have the levels or armor as of yet for night time raiding and looting, but once night vision goggles are mine it could be fun, im loving my run, i sell anything that isn't 9mm, i keep arrows and bolts, im only using agility tree weapons period, its interesting and im liking it more than what im used too

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34 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

Thats what i am thinking, i don't have the levels or armor as of yet for night time raiding and looting, but once night vision goggles are mine it could be fun, im loving my run, i sell anything that isn't 9mm, i keep arrows and bolts, im only using agility tree weapons period, its interesting and im liking it more than what im used too

I have been using stealth for night time raiding since day 2, using a shiv and a primitive bow. luckily i got nightvision on day 6, cost me 4k tho

as I said, a few muffled connectors in the padded armor and you dont even need stealth perks, just dont sneak sprint and keep to the shadows, break the garbage. though I will admit, the night stalker series is pretty good with helping out, only have 3 books atm

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