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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


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1 minute ago, Kalen said:

How is it wrong?  It came from TFP, it's linked in XML.txt

 

 

as far as I know, they have t1-t3, always been that way, well, at least for  the last few years. havent seen a t0 announcement yet. could be wrong for a19, and if I am gazz or mm or even roland will correct me.

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6 minutes ago, Kalen said:

How is it wrong?  It came from TFP, it's linked in XML.txt

 

 

The steel spear is labeled T3 in the XMLs

 

<item name="meleeWpnSpearT3SteelSpear"> 

 

Edit:  I think the confusing part is there are inconsistencies with labeling in the XMLs.  In general, there are 3 tiers to every weapon/armor/tool type.  Some are slightly different like pistols where SMG and DV are both considered T3 I believe.  Another example: Stone Sledge (T1/Primitive) > Iron Sledge (T2) > Steel Sledge (T3)

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1 minute ago, wolfbain5 said:

as far as I know, they have t1-t3, always been that way, well, at least for  the last few years. havent seen a t0 announcement yet. could be wrong for a19, and if I am gazz or mm or even roland will correct me.

 

Just now, Laz Man said:

The steel spear is labeled T3 in the XMLs

 

<item name="meleeWpnSpearT3SteelSpear"> 

it is, so are several other melee.... however, they're all in the T2 lootgroup

 

<lootgroup name="groupWeaponsT2_Melee" loot_quality_template="QLTemplateT2">
    <item name="meleeWpnSpearT3SteelSpear"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnClubT3SteelClub"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnSledgeT3SteelSledgehammer"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnKnucklesT3SteelKnuckles"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnBladeT3Machete"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnBatonT2StunBaton"/>

 

 

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1 minute ago, Kalen said:

 

it is, so are several other melee.... however, they're all in the T2 lootgroup

 

<lootgroup name="groupWeaponsT2_Melee" loot_quality_template="QLTemplateT2">
    <item name="meleeWpnSpearT3SteelSpear"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnClubT3SteelClub"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnSledgeT3SteelSledgehammer"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnKnucklesT3SteelKnuckles"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnBladeT3Machete"/>
    <item name="meleeWpnBatonT2StunBaton"/>

 

 

How about we conclude with both arguments being correct? Technically, the melee weapons go in the following phases: T1, T2, and T3, with the Stun Baton being the exception (which is T2). However, with the primitive age, such weapons could also be labeled as going from T0-T2. The non-craftable variants start to drop in the T2 category.

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Just now, MechanicalLens said:

How about we conclude with both arguments being correct? Technically, the melee weapons go in the following phases: T1, T2, and T3, with the Stun Baton being the exception (which is T2). However, with the primitive age, such weapons could also be labeled as going from T0-T2. The non-craftable variants start to drop in the T2 category.

Heh, fine with me.... at the end of the day it really doesn't matter what you label them.

 

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As TFP have added more weapons to the game, the tier lists keep getting resorted. I suspect there's some inconsistencies in the documentation. Since we know pipe weapons are coming, we can reason that tools and firearms will have 4 tiers, and most melee weapons will have 3. 

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To eliminate confusion, going back to the first argument, I suggest we label the 3 tiers of weapons (ex. wooden club, baseball bat, steel club) as V1, V2, and V3 (or version 1, 2, and 3).

Because it makes sense - there are 3 tiers to a melee weapon (minus the Stun Baton), but now there is a T0 tech age, it would be weird to label them as Tiers 1, 2, and 3, or Tiers 0, 1, and 2, since there are no primitive guns other than the blunderbuss (yet), and the first variant of melee weapons are obviously primitives. This would cause some head scratching over why there aren't any T3 melee weapons, since the highest tier ones would now be labeled as T2. Hence, let's just call progression tree of melee "V1, V2, and V3".

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6 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

To eliminate confusion, going back to the first argument, I suggest we label the 3 tiers of weapons (ex. wooden club, baseball bat, steel club) as V1, V2, and V3 (or version 1, 2, and 3).

Because it makes sense - there are 3 tiers to a melee weapon (minus the Stun Baton), but now there is a T0 tech age, it would be weird to label them as Tiers 1, 2, and 3, or Tiers 0, 1, and 2, since there are no primitive guns other than the blunderbuss (yet), and the first variant of melee weapons are obviously primitives. This would cause some head scratching over why there aren't any T3 melee weapons, since the highest tier ones would now be labeled as T2. Hence, let's just call progression tree of melee "V1, V2, and V3".

I just assumed since they're adding T0 ranged weapons they'll, at some point, add T3 melee weapons.

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1 minute ago, Kalen said:

I just assumed since they're adding T0 ranged weapons they'll, at some point, add T3 melee weapons.

That's the thing: T3 melee weapons are already in the game, they just drop in the T2 age. Back in A18, where the rest of the melee weapons were introduced, there was no T0; not really. The blunderbuss was its own thing and, back then, we heard nothing about pipe weapons (or T0 guns) being added. So guns will be Tiers 0-3, and melee is Tiers 1-3, or they could also be T 0-2. It's a slight inconsistency. Understand? :)

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Just now, MechanicalLens said:

That's the thing: T3 melee weapons are already in the game, they just drop in the T2 age. Back in A18, where the rest of the melee weapons were introduced, there was no T0; not really. The blunderbuss was its own thing and, back then, we heard nothing about pipe weapons (or T0 guns) being added. So guns will be Tiers 0-3, and melee is Tiers 1-3, or they could also be T 0-2. It's a slight inconsistency. Understand? :)

I understand, I just don't agree.   The A19 loot doc is pretty clear.... T0-T2 for melee so currently there are no T3 melee items.   Again, it makes no practical difference whether you say T1-T3 and I say T0-T2.... unless a new tier gets added.   Its entirely possible the doc is out of date too.

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9 minutes ago, Kalen said:

I understand, I just don't agree.   The A19 loot doc is pretty clear.... T0-T2 for melee so currently there are no T3 melee items.   Again, it makes no practical difference whether you say T1-T3 and I say T0-T2.... unless a new tier gets added.   Its entirely possible the doc is out of date too.

No, what it means is it can go both ways. Lol There are 3 tiers to melee, and soon-to-be 4 tiers to guns. Unless another tier of melee is introduced, there will always be this confusion.

 

Allow me to break it down for ya.

 

A18

 

No official T0. Thus, back then, the wooden club was a T1 melee weapon much like the double barrel shotgun was the T1 shotgun. (Blunderbuss was technically T0, but it was an exception, and come on, very, very few people used the thing.) Therefore, Tiers 1-3 existed. (Example: Stone Spear (T1), Iron Spear (T2), and Steel Spear (T3); however, a lot of the firearm classes were incomplete since they were missing some T2 or T3 variants, which were added in A19. Agility was and still is an exception, sporting two T3 guns, and Intellect melee was and still is an exception, only including the Stun Baton.)

 

A19

 

The primitive age is added. Former T1 melee weapons, like the wooden club, are technically reclassified as T0, but it's not incorrect to identify them as their former labels either. The bone knife, for example, could be labeled either as T1 or as T0. Guns will have 4 tiers in A20, melee will still have 3.

 

To get all detailed about it, there are 3 tiers to melee, hence why people use the term "T1, T2, and T3", but with the primitive age added, they can now be reclassified as T0, T1, and T2. Basically, the term "tier" now has 2 different meanings: the age in which it is crafted/looted, and the number of melee weapons within the class itself. In other words, there are two definitions to "tier": the age in which that progression level of melee is found (so Tiers 0-3), or it could simply mean someone cataloging that there are 3 levels of progression through melee. So, tiers 1-3, which now have nothing to do with the age in which they are found.

 

Make sense?

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2 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

No, what it means is it can go both ways. Lol There are 3 tiers to melee, and soon-to-be 4 tiers to guns. Unless another tier of melee is introduced, there will always be this confusion.

 

Allow me to break it down for ya.

 

A18

 

No official T0. Thus, back then, the wooden club was a T1 melee weapon much like the double barrel shotgun was the T1 shotgun. (Blunderbuss was technically T0, but it was an exception, and come on, very, very few people used the thing.) Therefore, Tiers 1-3 existed. (Example: Stone Spear (T1), Iron Spear (T2), and Steel Spear (T3); however, a lot of the firearm classes were incomplete since they were missing some T2 or T3 variants, which were added in A19. Agility was and still is an exception, sporting two T3 guns, and Intellect melee was and still is an exception, only including the Stun Baton.)

 

A19

 

The primitive age is added. Former T1 melee weapons, like the wooden club, are technically reclassified as T0, but it's not incorrect to identify them as their former labels either. The bone knife, for example, could be labeled either as T1 or as T0. Guns will have 4 tiers in A20, melee will still have 3.

 

To get all detailed about it, there are 3 tiers to melee, hence why people use the term "T1, T2, and T3", but with the primitive age added, they can now be reclassified as T0, T1, and T2. Basically, the term "tier" now has 2 different meanings: the age in which it is crafted/looted, and the number of melee weapons within the class itself.

 

Make sense?

 

Heh, yes it makes perfect sense.... I fully realize why there is confusion  :)

 

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2 minutes ago, Kalen said:

 

Heh, yes it makes perfect sense.... I fully realize why there is confusion  :)

 

Yeah. :) Think of it like the heat map. When some misinformed people hear that, they think it has to do with temperature. It doesn't; it's a military term for activity within the area. Same words, different meanings. :)

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plus industry standard for the majority of games that use numbers or colors is like this

1st tier or grey/brown 7dtd-stone

2nd tier or orange 7dtd iron

3rd or yellow 7dtd steel

green

blue

purple

gold

color order does vary tho

but for the Most part <qualifier needed for nitpickers> there is almost no t0. they almost all start at 1

that way in gw, wow, eq, eq2, etc

 

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1 hour ago, wolfbain5 said:

plus industry standard for the majority of games that use numbers or colors is like this

1st tier or grey/brown 7dtd-stone

2nd tier or orange 7dtd iron

3rd or yellow 7dtd steel

green

blue

purple

gold

color order does vary tho

but for the Most part <qualifier needed for nitpickers> there is almost no t0. they almost all start at 1

that way in gw, wow, eq, eq2, etc

 

Yeah, but what you're talking about with the color coding is quality in 7days.... and in that you are correct there is no Q0.

 

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Seems to me the document doesn't follow it's own listed criteria...

Primitive - Anyone can craft this if they have the materials.

Tier 1 - Unlocked with the first rank of the governing Perk.

Tier 2 - Unlocked with ranks 3-5 of the governing Perk.

Tier 3 - Schematic only.

 

According to those criteria, the T2 Melee weapons should be listed as T3. (Exception: Stun Baton should be listed as T1)

 

@wolfbain5 You're mixing up "Tier" with "Quality". Think of "Tier" more as "Technology Tier". So, an M60 is a "Tech Tier" 3 and comes in "Quality" 1-6.

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2 minutes ago, VenomsLust said:

Seems to me the document doesn't follow it's own listed criteria...

Primitive - Anyone can craft this if they have the materials.

Tier 1 - Unlocked with the first rank of the governing Perk.

Tier 2 - Unlocked with ranks 3-5 of the governing Perk.

Tier 3 - Schematic only.

 

According to those criteria, the T2 Melee weapons should be listed as T3. (Exception: Stun Baton should be listed as T1)

 

@wolfbain5 You're mixing up "Tier" with "Quality". Think of "Tier" more as "Technology Tier". So, an M60 is a "Tech Tier" 3 and comes in "Quality" 1-6.

Yup, lot of discrepancies.   For example steel tools are Tier 2 but are schematic only.   To me, the only thing that really matters is when they appear in loot.   If something shows up in the Tier 1 loot then, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what its called... it's Tier 1.

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10 minutes ago, Kalen said:

Yup, lot of discrepancies.   For example steel tools are Tier 2 but are schematic only.   To me, the only thing that really matters is when they appear in loot.   If something shows up in the Tier 1 loot then, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter what its called... it's Tier 1.

For myself, the criteria is quite clear. So, I'd prefer to go by that. 

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My only complaint so far is not finding the crucible blueprint or even a crucible itself. Me and my bro are past day 14. Before I would find one around before day 7. Maybe you guys should make a blacksmith shop and might find one there? 

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14 minutes ago, Sangra69 said:

My only complaint so far is not finding the crucible blueprint or even a crucible itself. Me and my bro are past day 14. Before I would find one around before day 7. Maybe you guys should make a blacksmith shop and might find one there? 

If you put several points into Better Barter the trader's should have them in their secret stash quite frequently. Otherwise, you're not supposed to have it for a while in-game.

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Vultures.

 

Currently, the most scary thing in the game for me and probably for others.

So as part of a (separate?) setting in difficulty, have wandering hordes (8+) of vultures.

 

32 or 64 of them would remind me (Edit: of) the old movie: "The Birds".  

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7 hours ago, hiemfire said:

... And for those who are bows and blades?

Side note, why do you just keep rephrasing "You're playing it wrong." in so many of your replies to this issue?

 

Fingers crossed for either a fix or a universal attribute suppressor aura special infected. 

Note this was a theoretical discussion about a "stealth build", he did not say he had problems with playing the game, he said if he wants to play a pure stealth build he would need to still take weapon outside the "core". My reply was about what is in that core. 

 

You are half right, I actually thought he was talking about the AGI attribute when he said "core build". But with that term he seems to only mean stealth and stealth weapons. Now I still am right because any weapon with a silencer IS part of a stealth core build (in this game), and that includes quite a lot of guns. If you think it is not, please explain

 

 

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I was so stoked to finally build the gyrocopter.....until I tried to test drive it!!

 

Holy sh*t! Now I've read the gyro is pretty wonky but how in the ever loving hell are you supposed to fly this thing??!!

 

It was the day of my 28 day horde so I gave up after a few tries. I'll try again next time I log on but does anyone have any tips?

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