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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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14 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

I kinda am worried. Like you, I want all this easy stuff patched up... but I think it still needs to be done carefully or you could end up in a situation where there are very few ways to make and defend a base that is effective throughout the gamestages.
In other words, I do not want to see all the people making statements like "TFP wants us to play one way, their way, or no way" actually be correct when saying it... because I really hate that line with a passion.

Making walls around your base has become useless, making anything remotely realistic has become useless (no, putting iron bars as your ground to shoot through isn't realistic), catwalks, improving a PoI and turning into a defended base (which is what i do) has become useless.

 

Want a good way to survive any horde? Climb on top of a relatively tall building, and know some passage ways out (for example the triple building with the shotgun messiah as one of them, just knock 2 blocks of the bridge on the roof). I barely survive hordes in my base anymore, i pretty much do quests and loot all day, then work on the base, then realize it's probably not ready (and it isn't) for the bloodmoon, and just "wait" it out in a random unprotected building.

 

A16, and I will take this to the grave with me until proven wrong, was the best alpha for bloodmoons.

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1 minute ago, RhinoW said:

Making walls around your base has become useless, making anything remotely realistic has become useless (no, putting iron bars as your ground to shoot through isn't realistic), catwalks, improving a PoI and turning into a defended base (which is what i do) has become useless.

 

Want a good way to survive any horde? Climb on top of a relatively tall building, and know some passage ways out (for example the triple building with the shotgun messiah as one of them, just knock 2 blocks of the bridge on the roof). I barely survive hordes in my base anymore, i pretty much do quests and loot all day, then work on the base, then realize it's probably not ready (and it isn't) for the bloodmoon, and just "wait" it out in a random unprotected building.

 

A16, and I will take this to the grave with me until proven wrong, was the best alpha for bloodmoons.

I really want to get to the heart of what you are saying here, but most of this is either just untrue or highly exaggerated to the point I can't see it.
I do play this game, as so do obviously everyone else here... and this is simply not the case.
What I do get is you have the same concerns as I do, but blowing things out of proportion isn't going to help others see eye to eye on those concerns. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Naz said:

I recently started a nightmare/insane/25%loot/horde night every night game, i had heard MM talk about it before and a player on my a18 server suggested it but i just never got around to it until now. after 11 attempts i'm on day 15 so far so good XD.

I salute your effort to play the game on a more challenging difficulty! I don't know if I could do horde night every night on Permadeath Insane Nightmare 25% loot no nerd polling. Eventually maybe I'll give it a shot.

 

2 hours ago, Naz said:

The best way to get there attention is to provide a clear, polite and logical argument as to why you think something should be changed and if you can clearly demonstrate your case, all the better. But the devs will be very unlikely to look into issues brought to them in a toxic manor. I know some things can get frustrating, but you have to ask yourself will venting my frustrations on the forms in this way be the best way to get the devs to look into your issues?

I started with this before and in this recent dev diary and got 'oh this can't be done' 'this would be too detrimental to the game' and it is frustrating. Especially when here I am proving these things can be done and it is not that detrimental to the game. At this point it seems like I'm being ignored out of spite which has turned me toxic.
 

2 hours ago, Naz said:

Also depositing your frustrations on other users isn't going to help the situation either. There are many different types of players with many different types of playstyles. There is no wrong way to play the game as long as you're having fun and enjoying it that's all that matters. I think some things are cheesy/OP too. For example i don't like airdrops, i think they make no sense in an apocalypse. If you're a survivor and some how have access to a working aircraft, why would you throw your supplies out of the back so "maybe" another survivor can find it. It just wouldn't happen, plus the loot is too much in them imo. But i still kept them enabled on my a18 server even tho i never looted them, my base was surrounded with dozens of unclaimed airdrops that i just ignored, Why? because other players enjoy them, not everyone will like your personal preference and trying to force your style on others and put down anyone else that doesn't want to play on nightmare isn't going to make you any friends or earn you any respect. The people on this form are fellow survivors and if you just listen to what they say and discuss instead of judging their play style, you may find they can have interesting ideas and strategies that may even benefit yours. 

 

Its the fact that is a survival game, no other survival game would allow this. This game does have things some survival games don't have but I don't think that should give it a pass to allow exploits and cheesy tactics. IMO.
 

2 hours ago, Naz said:

I wouldn't take being passed up on being a tester personally.

I've mostly got over it. What stings the most is that alot of them are streaming on twitch now which I'm trying to build towards doing in perhaps the worse time in content creator history to try and do so. I'm not saying they don't deserve it, they totally do and they definitely have the people skills I lack as you can tell with the way I respond to others.

You sir have definitely put more effort into trying to get there then I did. 

 

2 hours ago, Naz said:

i want to show you how you can get the devs to take an issue seriously and how to make it more likely they will take action.

I believe alot of things I've suggested won't come to pass because of the 'vision' and the fact that this game has to be released, I'm pretty sure everything is content locked now trying to get the game out. Also just out of spite.

 

2 hours ago, Naz said:

The reason i'm saying all this, is if you continue with your current attitude you're just going to have a day where you step over the line and end up getting banned. No one wants to lose members of the community just because of frustration. You have lots of insight to to offer the community and the game on high level play. So i'd ask you think about my suggestions and how you can contribute positively. It would be better and less frustrating for you and better for everyone. So please don't take this as an attack on you i just want to share some food for thought with you, thats all. Cheers

Honestly I'm surprised MM hasn't band me already, hes got patient over the years, it wouldn't be the first time. I will try. 

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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12 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

I started with this before and in this recent dev diary and got 'oh this can't be done' 'this would be too detrimental to the game' and it is frustrating. Especially when here I am proving these things can be done and it is not that detrimental to the game. At this point it seems like I'm being ignored out of spite which has turned me toxic.

<snip>

Honestly I'm surprised MM hasn't band me already, hes got patient over the years, it wouldn't be the first time. I will try. 

I've been reading the same posts... and I haven't seen anything bad coming from you in here. There are people full out arguing in classic "I know you are, but what am I?" in here. All I have seen is good debate and you at times having to defend yourself. I went back a couple weeks in posts and it appears to me that a few people just simply do not like you because you disagree with them and even attempt to make you seem bad by explaining how they are better.

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11 hours ago, wolfbain5 said:

@madmole you ever gonna bring the cigar in line with the stat glasses price wise at the trader? I mean seriously, purchased for 90 dukes for a +1 str?

I can probably do that now that they aren't crafted exclusively from plant fibers. I didn't want players getting rich crafting cigars.

11 hours ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

I think it would be neat if the traders offered a special quest to find a series of items, basically multiple places you have to go to, can even have digging quests, once this long quest is done you get yourself either a legendary item, or a part of the legendary item for them to craft for u later, that could be a neat incentive

We have talked about some procuring quests where you gather/craft some things.

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4 minutes ago, 0ldman said:

 

where are the hands?

A19.0_2020-08-13_16-37-44.jpg


***************************************
fixed in future build...
:)
QA Tester-unholyjoe
***************************************

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Talking of new quest types, it'd be cool to have quests where a horde is summoned at a PoI and you have like a short window to reinforce it.

 

Could be difficult to implement though, especially if somebody takes the time and resources to reinforce it before triggering the PoI reset, but I always like the early game days where you just try to patch up a small house to hole up in. Maybe could have the quest be "spend the entire night in X PoI, expect wandering hordes to arrive."

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6 minutes ago, Vintorez said:

Talking of new quest types, it'd be cool to have quests where a horde is summoned at a PoI and you have like a short window to reinforce it.

 

Could be difficult to implement though, especially if somebody takes the time and resources to reinforce it before triggering the PoI reset, but I always like the early game days where you just try to patch up a small house to hole up in. Maybe could have the quest be "spend the entire night in X PoI, expect wandering hordes to arrive."

 

That could work with special POI's designed for it that reset fully when the quest is activated. With the goal of protecting a certain percent of the blocks so if the zombies destroy to many blocks you fail. Even better would be if it limited the amount of blocks that you could place in the area with out failing the quest. As well as having a large area around the POI be included in the reset and the zombies spawn with in the boarders of the reset to avoid cheesing it.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, beerfly said:

Indeed, it is a system that is a work in progress, it will be interesting when bandits are added for example. How will their behavior be when they meet a horde for example, or if we have a quest of where we should clear bandits from a building, and some random horde decide to join the party. (and that is just a small example of situations)

 

Who is gonna kill who, who is gonna act viciously hungry for brains or for duke coins and territory. 

We`re about to see. 

 

Btw the slogan of us biologists is #lifealwaysfindsaway, good one. 

I think bandits should be AI players, they should definitely fight zombies and zombies should fight them. It will create unique scenarios. If I see a bandit in the woods fighting a zed I'm going in for the cheap shot while hes busy with the zed with the hopes of getting so loot, bandits should do the same thing, just as it would be in Pvp with zeds being the common enemy.

This could create problems like a group of raiders trying to get to your base running into zeds but that can be easily fixed, spawn them next to or near the player base like they do with the spider on day 5 night or spawn them in on a random edge of the chunk.

Clearing bandits that have similar weapons to yours will add a hole new dynamic to the game and having a horde role in during a fire fight would be the icing on the cake.
 

Like players cheesy strategies alone should not work on Bandits. People have been building walls around fortifications for how many thousands of years, seems to me if we got stone aged like this we would be reverting back to old ways making a solid perimeter a defense mandatory but nothing would stop the player from opening up the doors or purposely destroying a wall portion to there fortification on horde night to let the horde in for they're cheese strategy to work.

 

As the game stage gets higher a group of bandit should be showing up with a rocket launcher tapping on your defenses meaning business and pissed off you've been alive killing and evading them for so long.

 

This is all IMO of course. How I see the game should be often seems to scare others so we'll se how good TFP want to make them.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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Not sure if its been brought up already, hope the bears bouncing and flopping around when getting harvested gets fixed in next patch...

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3 minutes ago, Divardican said:

Not sure if its been brought up already, hope the bears bouncing and flopping around when getting harvested gets fixed in next patch...

Noooooo... I love that... Is it realistic? No... but is it hilarious? Absolutely

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6 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

And as far as that goes, you tell the zoms for me, they already have a toolbox of magic skills like super I.Q.  x-ray vision, GPS, super human strength and agility, that would make Superman blush..

Only thing they are lacking is the ability to fly..

I wouldn't bring that up to the zeds. Then you'll hear them whining and complaining about our perpetual energy robotic workbenches, our ability to make concrete mix without water, our door knobs, and of course our ability to fly.

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Thank you but Although i'll lose points with you saying this, i'm a nerdpoler XD I think it's gotten a bad rap from people exploiting it, nerdpoling up to the roof to the loot etc, i'm not one of those types. I use it because it's more convenient than finding where the stairs are and it doesn't waste time and wood compared to ladders since you can pick it up and reuse it. I was in a poi today for example, the floor had those damaged concrete blocks and zombies had fallen in the hole and made a 1x2 hole in there, i fell in rofl. So the situation was i could either waste wood on a ladder i would only use once, spend an early game point on parkour to get out, not an option when you need as much Survivability and damage output as possible at that difficulty, maybe later on i could spare some but not early game. Or i could dig myself out the old fashioned way, given i had stone tools and it was concrete, it's not really an option. So frames in that case were justified in that situation in my option.

 

Also with hordes every night you can't nerdpole up to a roof and go make a coffee until morning, after day 6 wood structures won't last the night. I like to live like a nomad early game since i don't have the equipment or resources to build a base capable of surviving a horde, i've been surviving going to a different building each night until i can build something i can fight from. Maybe one day i'll try to rid myself of the nerdpoling habbit as a personal challenge ;) but thats my take on frames and nerdpoling, very video gamey but i don't think they are always cheesy it depends.

You're not alone on that one, if it makes you feel better everyone gets frustrated at times even the devs get frustrated that zyx feature isn't currently possible due to reason xyz. Sometimes it is possible but the devs have only so much time and they have to decide what feature will benefit the most players to justify the time to develop. The best thing we can do in these situations is provide clear evidence like a short to the point video showing what is possible then a logical and detailed explanation on my it would be better for the game to have. However there is always the chance that it will just never happen despite all that and unfortunately thats just the nature of early access. I know MM says this a lot but he is right when he says if it's not planned for vanilla, mod it. It's maybe not always as simple as that, there may not be a mod doing the thing you want and if your just looking at xpath for the first time it can be pretty intimidating, but it doesn't take too long before you can tweak the game to be what you want it to be. 

I think exploits will get looked into more as it gets closer to beta, once all the content and features are in they will likely focus on balance like that. I really don't think they're trying to spite you, they want the game to do well as much as you or me do, i think at worst they won't respond because they'd like it to be the way you want but they can't due to time,technical reasons etc. They want too be able to say yes to everyone but sometimes they just can't fortunately.

Also lol don't get banned, how will we be able to read your survival stories ;)

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5 minutes ago, Naz said:

Thank you but Although i'll lose points with you saying this, i'm a nerdpoler XD

Respect lost. My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined. 😜 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(jk of course)

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14 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

I wouldn't bring that up to the zeds. Then you'll hear them whining and complaining about our perpetual energy robotic workbenches, our ability to make concrete mix without water, our door knobs, and of course our ability to fly.

Don't forget our ability to carry metric tons of building materials in our tiny backpack......😅

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

This is all IMO of course. How I see the game should be often seems to scare others so we'll se how good TFP want to make them.

This has nothing to do with scaring others.  Do you have any clue what kind of computing power would be needed to implement all the crap you're demanding?  Especially on a full multiplayer server?  Yeah, I didn't think so.

Edited by Ricowan (see edit history)

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6 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Don't forget our ability to carry metric tons of building materials in our tiny backpack......😅

9,626 metric tons of concrete blocks on the toolbelt alone!

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11 hours ago, STyK_ said:

It isn't even a gameplay style its a cheap way to avoid playing a part of the game. There are plenty of ways to play the game without using exploits like that. Do the conveyor belt with hatches, thats not going anywhere from what MM says, that exploit in the video was game breaking.

If something takes 10 hours in real time to build I wouldn't rush to call that an exploit. I can build a 10x10 steel box faster than that, and be 100% safe sitting afk, so I don't see huge issues or the need to go out of our way to stifle creativity of players. Obviously if something is very easy to build and super effective we will try our best to solve it. Everything should work, just not 100% and stuff that does work well should require maintenance.

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3 hours ago, STyK_ said:

I started with this before and in this recent dev diary and got 'oh this can't be done' 'this would be too detrimental to the game' and it is frustrating. Especially when here I am proving these things can be done and it is not that detrimental to the game. At this point it seems like I'm being ignored out of spite which has turned me toxic.
 

Wanting the devs to make the base game as hardcore as you personally like to play it IS detrimental to the game overall tho. That's the part you are missing. Very few people are going to want to play it in that manner. Yes you can "prove it is possible". Ofc course it is possible. Not many will like it tho. That's just a fact. The true beauty of 7dtd is the ability to take the base game and make it your own. Once Gold the mods will be endless.

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3 hours ago, madmole said:

We have talked about some procuring quests where you gather/craft some things.

 

Yeah, a quest in a POI that spawns with resource nodes, like a mine, would be cool too, so I can farm the quest and the nodes. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, madmole said:

We have talked about some procuring quests where you gather/craft some things.

What about a builder quest line?

 

Here is a custom POI + quest I threw together for A18. :)

 

 

 

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Naz said:

Thank you but Although i'll lose points with you saying this, i'm a nerdpoler XD I think it's gotten a bad rap from people exploiting it, nerdpoling up to the roof to the loot etc, i'm not one of those types. I use it because it's more convenient than finding where the stairs are and it doesn't waste time and wood compared to ladders since you can pick it up and reuse it. I was in a poi today for example, the floor had those damaged concrete blocks and zombies had fallen in the hole and made a 1x2 hole in there, i fell in rofl. So the situation was i could either waste wood on a ladder i would only use once, spend an early game point on parkour to get out, not an option when you need as much Survivability and damage output as possible at that difficulty, maybe later on i could spare some but not early game. Or i could dig myself out the old fashioned way, given i had stone tools and it was concrete, it's not really an option. So frames in that case were justified in that situation in my option.

See I don't see this as a waste and I've got wood to spare, 1 point into motherload and you can get 6000 wood with a quality two axe easy. I put the fire on when I'm sitting at my base at night when its to dangerous to go out so if people are still watching at least they can watch the fire with me. So I build ladder in those scenarios and in the TFP death trap scenarios. When I build my base day 5 or 6 night I did it without nerd polling just making the wall into steps till I was done. This last video I screwed up making the cage and didn't realize till I got down so I made a scaffold to get back up, three blocks standing with a ladder on the side. To me its not a waste cause its serving a purpose.

 

3 hours ago, Naz said:

You're not alone on that one, if it makes you feel better everyone gets frustrated at times even the devs get frustrated that zyx feature isn't currently possible due to reason xyz. Sometimes it is possible but the devs have only so much time and they have to decide what feature will benefit the most players to justify the time to develop. The best thing we can do in these situations is provide clear evidence like a short to the point video showing what is possible then a logical and detailed explanation on my it would be better for the game to have. However there is always the chance that it will just never happen despite all that and unfortunately thats just the nature of early access. I know MM says this a lot but he is right when he says if it's not planned for vanilla, mod it. It's maybe not always as simple as that, there may not be a mod doing the thing you want and if your just looking at xpath for the first time it can be pretty intimidating, but it doesn't take too long before you can tweak the game to be what you want it to be. 

I've looked into this for anti nerd polling, it is possible but sphereii's mods are not EAC friendly which means turning it off and once I do that all legitimacy is out the window, who can say what mods I'm using. They are interesting though, if I ever get to the point I wanted to do a server.

 

3 hours ago, Naz said:

I think exploits will get looked into more as it gets closer to beta, once all the content and features are in they will likely focus on balance like that. I really don't think they're trying to spite you, they want the game to do well as much as you or me do, i think at worst they won't respond because they'd like it to be the way you want but they can't due to time,technical reasons etc. They want too be able to say yes to everyone but sometimes they just can't fortunately.

I hope so.

2 hours ago, madmole said:

If something takes 10 hours in real time to build I wouldn't rush to call that an exploit. I can build a 10x10 steel box faster than that, and be 100% safe sitting afk, so I don't see huge issues or the need to go out of our way to stifle creativity of players. Obviously if something is very easy to build and super effective we will try our best to solve it. Everything should work, just not 100% and stuff that does work well should require maintenance.

its the fact they can put those 10 hours in and just stop, they just defeated your hordes with minimal effort and don't have to do anymore. I don't stop the way I play, there are always improvements that can be done. That way is shortening the game and you guys have been putting alot of effort into lengthening it. You could build a 10x10 and chill but thats not going to last forever, these designs I criticize do.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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