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On 8/10/2020 at 12:19 PM, STyK_ said:

its the pathing. It would be more realistic to have them spread out hitting your base from all sides which you can make happen initially by sealing your base and having a uniform defense but as soon as that breaks they bunch up. Its AI difficulty scroll bar solution I've been pushing, destruction over pathing to the weakest point.

They are going to say its a tower defense game at the end of the day. To many people like just setting up an easy defense and having them all walk right in from one way. You maximize kills and xp, don't waste any zed lives setup correctly. Self-control and self-imposed handicaps are going to be the easy solution. I do my best to be ready to fight from all sides cause thats how I would have liked the game to be. All goes back to challenging yourself 👍.

People make a lot of guesses as to why the AI does something and it is often wrong. I see people test their designs with a bunch of the same zombie thinking the other types will do the same thing, which is sometimes not true.

 

Blood moon spawner does attack your base from multiple directions, but not all at once, it changes over time, because that is more efficient for pathing. The typical dumb zombie will not go very far to find a weak spot or opening, often preferring to beat on a wall near it instead of walking a bit to go through an opening. Yesterday I was just looking at that issue of being too dumb and beating the walls around a cemetery POI instead of using the opening, but really that is correct, since those are set to be that dumb. Thick walls would change that behavior, just like many things can change their behavior.

On 8/10/2020 at 1:12 PM, pregnable said:

Agility is kinda cool, not sure about balance currently, but being able to sneak really well without a base is a nice alternative.  Random dog packs should probably not be able to zero in on  you when you are sneaking though... not sure if they do.

No zombie auto targets you except for blood moon spawns and POI volumes set to attack.

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On 8/10/2020 at 9:40 PM, Blake_ said:

Hi again @faatal. Seems like I spoke too soon. There are freezes. Quite a few of them. Music turned OFF improved things quite a bit in many cases, though not as much as I expected .  Most of the freezes happen before Warnings regarding blocks PLUS sleeper spawning of several entities in SEVERAL POIS at a time. Seems like it's not as cheap as you make it sound or there might be an issue in timing in the spawning of the volumes between more than 1 POI.

I was referring to it spawning from a sleeper volume. There is no coordination across sleeper volumes. I added that to my todo list, but it will probably not be in A19.

14 hours ago, Darinth said:

This is one of the major downsides to the sleeper volumes, and something I hope they address as time goes on. Depending on circumstances, the 1st floor room of the 6 story apartment that you get dropped into from the breaking floor on the 2nd floor can actually be completely empty with you looking down into it... and then spawn a dozen zombies directly in front of your face as soon as you drop down into it. Hopefully we'll get something in the future so that any time where you get Line of Sight to where zed should be, it will go ahead and spawn it, along with potentially the rest of it's volume. Actually legitimately looking into a room that is empty and so not going into it I suspect may be one of the culprits for people having difficulty with clears. It's not been the problem on any of the clears that I've gone to when someone was having issues, but I can easily imagine looking into rooms and not seeing zombies because they're not physically there being a problem.

Not likely to change much. Way too expensive checking line of sight to all the potential blocks you could see.

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7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Not quite, faatal mentioned once that AI pathing is the real problem... the more entities you have the more processing power you need.

That's why we can't have hundreds of zombies at the same time all "pathing" around. :ballchain:

It tends to be the character controller colliding with the world, not pathing that uses a lot of CPU.

6 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Yeah, see.. that crisp res means sacrifices must be made. 
It's pretty cool though that you can tweak things to go either way. You can't do that with most games.

Resolution makes a large impact on 7dtd. Often people say I have blah blah specs, but fail to mention details like the resolution they are running the game at. If things feel laggy/choppy/bad, I'd be dropping the game to 1920x1080 and compare.

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39 minutes ago, faatal said:

Not likely to change much. Way too expensive checking line of sight to all the potential blocks you could see.

Totally guessing here; from a couple vids on how to make a poi it looks like there are 'sleeper volumes' in which can be 1 or more zeds. The volumes are 6 sided 'cubes', and if (not sure) there's such a thing as a "trigger spawn in" I'm guessing it's a cube as well.

 

For performance reasons poi designers likely keep "trigger spawn in" cubes as small as possible.

 

Wondering if it might be possible to exend the "trigger spawn in" code to allow additional cubes? If it isn't already.

 

So in the situation I experianced, coming down the stairs, pop a closet, no zed inside, get to foot of stairs, zed spawns in; if the designer could draw in a nother "trigger spawn in" cube that just covered part of the stairs, without extending up through the floor in a wide area, it could be less performance impact.

 

Edit: oops, meant to say that yeah, can imagine the overhead of constantly tracking player FOV, so put that on the poi designers instead.

 

Just a wag :)

Edited by FileMachete (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Junuxx said:

The word you're looking for is a cuboid aka a box.

"cub-oid" robotic bear cubs! :biggrin1: and yep, couldn't get it off the tip of my tongue, thanks!

3 minutes ago, Junuxx said:

Is the distance at which sleepers get spawned in any way exposed in the XML?

No idea, haven't noticed it anywhere. (if this was for me, likely for faatal :) )

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45 minutes ago, FileMachete said:

Totally guessing here; from a couple vids on how to make a poi it looks like there are 'sleeper volumes' in which can be 1 or more zeds. The volumes are 6 sided 'cubes', and if (not sure) there's such a thing as a "trigger spawn in" I'm guessing it's a cube as well.

 

For performance reasons poi designers likely keep "trigger spawn in" cubes as small as possible.

 

Wondering if it might be possible to exend the "trigger spawn in" code to allow additional cubes? If it isn't already.

 

So in the situation I experianced, coming down the stairs, pop a closet, no zed inside, get to foot of stairs, zed spawns in; if the designer could draw in a nother "trigger spawn in" cube that just covered part of the stairs, without extending up through the floor in a wide area, it could be less performance impact.

 

Edit: oops, meant to say that yeah, can imagine the overhead of constantly tracking player FOV, so put that on the poi designers instead.

 

Just a wag :)

Yes, you can do this already,  Just make sure all "attack" trigger sleeper volumes have the same Group ID # (excluding zero).  There is at least one vanilla POI in the game that already does this.  :)

 

Edit: Not sure if this impacts when the sleeper actually spawns into the game though.  What I mentioned allows you have to have different trigger zones for the same group of zombies.  For example, 2 empty attack trigger sleeper volumes "triggering" 1 filled with sleepers.

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Yes, you can do this already,  Just make sure all "attack" trigger sleeper volumes have the same Group ID # (excluding zero).  There is at least one vanilla POI in the game that already does this.  :)

 

Edit: Not sure if this impacts when the sleeper actually spawns into the game though.  What I mentioned allows you have to have different trigger zones for the same group of zombies.  For example, 2 empty attack trigger sleeper volumes "triggering" 1 filled with sleepers.

Cool. So maybe, if they wanted to, they could leverage that bit to trigger the zed/s spawning in.

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Hello all, My wife a I have been playing this game for a little over a year now. Since the new update my wife died randomly 3 times now, first time just digging for a buried supply, then in a poi and then again digging for another buried supply. There was no mine or explosion or any other threat whatsoever. We were together at same location, like less than 1 meter and just puff out of the air death comes. This issue never happened before to her or myself, now this looks like a bug and it sucks. We only play permadeath. If any player dies in our group of 3 we start over. Anyone else experience this? It sucks now with this random death issue.

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I have some more feedback about quests.  Quests were my main way of playing the game, and the thing I do when no other task around the base needs doing.  I've found myself not wanting to play the game as much because the Tier 5 POI's are just too big and take too long to do. 

 

I went through a lot of very well designed POI's in the Tier 1 through Tier 3 range, and some of the Tier 4's are cool, but the size of these dungeons is just too big.

 

Or, maybe more accurately, the CLEAR objective is just not a fun one to do when the POI gets bigger than a two-story house.  I don't know how to fix it other than have the POI's be faster to get through.

 

Or maybe have different varieties of quests, because the only ones I see now are Tier 5 clears, or Tier 5 clear/fetch, and every now and then a Tier 2 buried supply or something.

 

Assassinating a bandit?

 

Assassinating a boss zombie?

 

Planting a bomb?

 

Planting a supply drop?

 

Planting a radio transmitter?

 

Just brainstorming things that aren't clearing the entire POI.  You could probably come up with more stuff.

 

Cheers. :)

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@x3eemguy , it's a part of the new "Critcals" and expanded Primitive Stage now. And also a PSA from MadMole;

 

"You never went to the gym. You stayed on the coach and ate Cheetos and Redbull."

"Now you're in a Zombie Apocolypse."

"Bet you wish you would have taken better care of yourself."

'Warning: over exertion in the first weeks of a Zombie Apocolypse may lead to massive heart attacks and death.'

 

 

heh heh, totally kidding here :biggrin1:

sry, no idea and haven't seen anyone posting similar.. might be something in the Bug Reports though.

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2 hours ago, faatal said:

People make a lot of guesses as to why the AI does something and it is often wrong. I see people test their designs with a bunch of the same zombie thinking the other types will do the same thing, which is sometimes not true.

 

Blood moon spawner does attack your base from multiple directions, but not all at once, it changes over time, because that is more efficient for pathing. The typical dumb zombie will not go very far to find a weak spot or opening, often preferring to beat on a wall near it instead of walking a bit to go through an opening. Yesterday I was just looking at that issue of being too dumb and beating the walls around a cemetery POI instead of using the opening, but really that is correct, since those are set to be that dumb. Thick walls would change that behavior, just like many things can change their behavior.

 

Dumb Zed is not necessary a bad one. If I set one off and run back though the house or poi and if I'm too fast they get stuck behind a wall or stacked furniture when the opening is just a 6 blocks out of their way. I don't really think this is a bad thing, we are talking about dead brain matter here, hows he even supposed to know where the opening is without seeing it. It just followed my sound which I've seen them do in any movie with zombies. So I just help them out with the block they are destroying and stab them in the head like you would if you found one tangled in barbwire on a fence or similar scenario. How many times have I seen the same thing in walking dead.

That's part of the reason I liked the pathing in early A16 versus later. They were 100% willing to throw themselves off a cliff just to get a little closer which is normally what you would see in any movie/show with zeds. I guess it depends on the type of virus too, I'm more partial to the enraged rabbis zombie myself. Right now I find they are too smart at times, trying to get them to go though the traps already set in a building, barbwire spikes and landmines setup prefabbed in the poi and they'll walk though the whole house to avoid it now. Same with spikes, if you put one down while they are chasing you they'll zig and then zag to avoid it where before they'd run right into it trying to get you.

I'd honestly rather 128 dumb enraged zeds per wave on horde night over 64 smart ones but thats me trying to recreate a walking dead world/World War Z world. I even stab all the zeds I kill in the head after they are already dead, I appreciate that you guys added a sound they make sometimes when I do this, makes me feel justified in my actions. Head explosions are just icing on the cake.

 

They also have a hard time with openings that are not doors, like prefabbed holes in walls. Theres a certain mine they get stuck in all the time if you don't break things open for them.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)
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19 minutes ago, x3eemguy said:

Hello all, My wife a I have been playing this game for a little over a year now. Since the new update my wife died randomly 3 times now, first time just digging for a buried supply, then in a poi and then again digging for another buried supply. There was no mine or explosion or any other threat whatsoever. We were together at same location, like less than 1 meter and just puff out of the air death comes. This issue never happened before to her or myself, now this looks like a bug and it sucks. We only play permadeath. If any player dies in our group of 3 we start over. Anyone else experience this? It sucks now with this random death issue.

Did you start a new game when latest experimental dropped?

Sometimes NOT restarting can mess up your game... just a guess.

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25 minutes ago, x3eemguy said:

Hello all, My wife a I have been playing this game for a little over a year now. Since the new update my wife died randomly 3 times now, first time just digging for a buried supply, then in a poi and then again digging for another buried supply. There was no mine or explosion or any other threat whatsoever. We were together at same location, like less than 1 meter and just puff out of the air death comes. This issue never happened before to her or myself, now this looks like a bug and it sucks. We only play permadeath. If any player dies in our group of 3 we start over. Anyone else experience this? It sucks now with this random death issue.

No actually and all I play is permadeath as well so I know that could be rather annoying/upsetting. Do you verify game files after every update? If that was happening to me I'd uninstall and reinstall then verify game files. Random death shouldn't just be happening.

Edit: Unless the ground is caving in on top of you guys while digging, that can kill you forsure.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)
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52 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

will arrows and bolts get fixed soon? arrows and bolts float away from zombies. I mean the 2nd pic was a head shot. and the first pic, the bow is loaded and aimed, but no arrow

A19.0_2020-08-11_21-09-43.jpg

 

Holy crap, never seen that many crates together before. What POI is that?

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1 hour ago, faatal said:
9 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Not quite, faatal mentioned once that AI pathing is the real problem... the more entities you have the more processing power you need.

That's why we can't have hundreds of zombies at the same time all "pathing" around. :ballchain:

It tends to be the character controller colliding with the world, not pathing that uses a lot of CPU.

I have no idea what you just said, but I understand I was wrong... thanks for the reply! :hail::yo:

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2 hours ago, faatal said:

I was referring to it spawning from a sleeper volume. There is no coordination across sleeper volumes. I added that to my todo list, but it will probably not be in A19.

PLUS desynchroniced spawns/sleeper spawns WITH random hordes and biome spawns. Or else, it will still make bumps when any spawn happens simultaneously. Coding that  is a big undertaking for an experimental build; nevertheless thank you for having it on your list.

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)
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20 hours ago, Pegasus said:

 

Well that would certainly explain it.  Hopefully someone in charge can take a look and maybe see about balancing it a bit for the bigger POIs / higher tier quests.  I'm seeing a lot of frustration regarding this issue.  Thanks. :)

Yes, it was balanced for the bigger POI.

Previously you only got the guidance for the last missing zombie room.

 

On a T5 POI it now shows you the last three. Unless you make it a point to tunnel through walls or skip entire floors that should work every time now.

If it is a problem then it is very likely a self-made one.

 

Don't take me wrong - feel free to tunnel all throughout the building. Just go all the way and hit every room while doing so. That works, too.

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15 hours ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Can it just be a percent, once You cleared 95 percent ( or whatever percent).  Quest complete

Yes, it essentially is.

 

The biggest POI have a bit over 30 zombie groups. 3 of those is 10% when it was 3.3% before.

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