Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Phoenixshade35]

Im waiting to see what happens with the ai, like right now its working great, don't get me wrong, but having them attack the weakest point to get to you almost feels like an exploit, my last horde they simply bunched up and were easy to kill cause of the weak point, i hope someday the zombies get coded to simply attack player made blocks in general for some real damage, i rarely have to repair anything on my horde bases

[meganoth]

12 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

Exactly how l feel about agility and having to invest in strength and fortitude to be self sufficient. Intel and perception feel this too I'm sure. I mean I can see one but both. Only way to balance that would be to give it it's own tree make making them cheaper then investing 3 into strength and 3 into fortitude, actually 5 after the perks you want, but I'm sure you guys don't want to do that.  

 

Vending machine in the working stiffs didn't work again, 4th time in a row. Bug? On purpose?

You find seeds and seed recipes in loot. If you don't because of specific settings that never were mentioned here (😉) then relying on perks is obviously the better strategy. Balance is right, you just need a setting to get only 25% out of perk bonuses to be balanced again.

 

 

 

[Blake_]

16 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

Exactly how l feel about agility and having to invest in strength and fortitude to be self sufficient. Intel and perception feel this too I'm sure. I mean I can see one but both. Only way to balance that would be to give it it's own tree make making them cheaper then investing 3 into strength and 3 into fortitude, actually 5 after the perks you want, but I'm sure you guys don't want to do that.  

Edit: Make a pacifist class, Soccer mom, and put the master chef and living off the land there. At least then its under one tree making it cheaper. You'd need more to fill it out to suit that class but it would balance things out. 

 

Vending machine in the working stiffs didn't work again, 4th time in a row. Bug? On purpose?

We've talked about this. I'm sure data shows strenght is ALWAYS chosen to some degree, while other attributes might not. Not a perfect system, but at least It's cheap. Like a socc... alright imma head out.

[STyK_]

8 minutes ago, meganoth said:

You find seeds and seed recipes in loot. If you don't because of specific settings that never were mentioned here (😉) then relying on perks is obviously the better strategy. Balance is right, you just need a setting to get only 25% out of perk bonuses to be balanced again.

0 seeds end of day 7 two hour days but now your going to say its my settings and shame on me for picking them. What ever it takes to defend whats already implemented.

I am making it work but it would be a hell of a lot easier being fortitude or strength your making those classes easy mod.

7 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

We've talked about this. I'm sure data shows strenght is ALWAYS chosen to some degree, while other attributes might not. Not a perfect system, but at least It's cheap. Like a socc... alright imma head out.

it was an idea, didn't say it was the best one but neither is what is currently in place

[STyK_]

26 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

Im waiting to see what happens with the ai, like right now its working great, don't get me wrong, but having them attack the weakest point to get to you almost feels like an exploit, my last horde they simply bunched up and were easy to kill cause of the weak point, i hope someday the zombies get coded to simply attack player made blocks in general for some real damage, i rarely have to repair anything on my horde bases

its the pathing. It would be more realistic to have them spread out hitting your base from all sides which you can make happen initially by sealing your base and having a uniform defense but as soon as that breaks they bunch up. Its AI difficulty scroll bar solution I've been pushing, destruction over pathing to the weakest point.

They are going to say its a tower defense game at the end of the day. To many people like just setting up an easy defense and having them all walk right in from one way. You maximize kills and xp, don't waste any zed lives setup correctly. Self-control and self-imposed handicaps are going to be the easy solution. I do my best to be ready to fight from all sides cause thats how I would have liked the game to be. All goes back to challenging yourself 👍.

[Laz Man]

2 hours ago, madmole said:

We are just not willing to push new stuff in when large sectors of the game are completely unpolished and need optimized and improved.

There is character R&D going on right now for new player outfits that replaces UMA. It just *MIGHT* work for bandits too so once players are overhauled then we can decide if bandits are skinned meshes like zombies, or assembled parts via pieces after the new player clothing/armor system is completed we can do some stress tests and see and make the right calls. Then bandits can sort of fall out of the character system instead of a separate effort.

Thats pretty cool.  Sounds like a neat design and also efficient dev time if you guys can pull it off.  I personally don't mind waiting on bandits if the end result are player characters and bandits having some type of cohesion instead of being completely separate things...

 

...which may also allow for more emergent MP gameplay as players and npcs could potentially look very similar and have unexpected encounters... 😀

 

Edit: hopefully better then the UMA stuff that didn't work out...

[Jost Amman]

2 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

No, it's because you require immense strength to lift the frying pan, to stack the plates, and to carry the pot of boiling water from one side of the kitchen to the other. 😛

Exactly! 😁

Spoiler

 

 

[Phoenixshade35]

16 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

its the pathing. It would be more realistic to have them spread out hitting your base from all sides which you can make happen initially by sealing your base and having a uniform defense but as soon as that breaks they bunch up. Its AI difficulty scroll bar solution I've been pushing, destruction over pathing to the weakest point.

They are going to say its a tower defense game at the end of the day. To many people like just setting up an easy defense and having them all walk right in from one way. You maximize kills and xp, don't waste any zed lives setup correctly. Self-control and self-imposed handicaps are going to be the easy solution. I do my best to be ready to fight from all sides cause thats how I would have liked the game to be. All goes back to challenging yourself 👍.

oh i know, like my last horde i forgot to upgrade one block, so it was the weakest point, we all forget, i had my back to the one side where i could easily be hit and they still went for that point, i know pathing and its perfect for when u are in a poi, turn around and smack your infected, but horde night should be more random, they are frenzied, yes to your location but still frenzied

[Jost Amman]

The AI searching for the weakest point is part of the Tower Defense mechanic.

The point is you're supposed to exploit (to some degree) the AI pathing to build a base that funnels most of the zombies in one place and/or path.

[Phoenixshade35]

17 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

The AI searching for the weakest point is part of the Tower Defense mechanic.

The point is you're supposed to exploit (to some degree) the AI pathing to build a base that funnels most of the zombies in one place and/or path.

i know thats why i did say its working great, but imagine a total random ai, where you would see them hitting pois because it was in their way instead of walking around it, would make the world interesting, hell imagine coming across a hole that was dug because they "thought" something was down there, dumb zombies can be fun too lol

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, STyK_ said:

0 seeds end of day 7 two hour days but now your going to say its my settings and shame on me for picking them. What ever it takes to defend whats already implemented.

I am making it work but it would be a hell of a lot easier being fortitude or strength your making those classes easy mod.

it was an idea, didn't say it was the best one but neither is what is currently in place

No, I just made some light fun of the fact that you mentioned your loot setting a bit too often. Actually I plan to use lower loot settings myself eventually. But first I want to wait until I'm sure the bugs with actual loot being less than the percentage suggests are not coming back.

 

But my OTHER point that your strategy has to be to buy perks instead of waiting for the loot when you decrease loot was me being absolutely serious. Lets assume the game is balanced at vanilla settings and going for the perk instead of waiting for the seeds to drop is just a decision between equal options. Then decreasing one of those options to be 4 times worse can't possibly be balanced anymore, quite obviously now buying the perk must be the tremenduously better option.

 

[pregnable]

Yeah, strength is really good, and probably does not really need heavy armor, cooking or either the sledge or club, heh. 

 

Agility is kinda cool, not sure about balance currently, but being able to sneak really well without a base is a nice alternative.  Random dog packs should probably not be able to zero in on  you when you are sneaking though... not sure if they do.  Parkour is amazing. 

 

Intelligence is really strong, but does not have a starter weapon so its usually a second pick, and charismatic nature could use a change.  I still like putting the last tier of barter as the last rank of charismatic nature. 

 

Perception is kinda meh, but depending on the balance of the wrench skill it could almost be on par with strength.  If you can harvest enough metal with it while questing, to build a base, you could follow the iron frame path of building.  I tried it once and it was okay, but having to get clay was a little lame.  Depending on the balance of metal pipes and stuff you get though, it could be really good, and wrenches are not bad weapons if you invest in it. 

 

I am not even sure about fortitude.  Definitely a lot of good stuff, but I usually do not grab much from it.  I used to always rush farming, but now I go intelligence for building second.  It is probably a perfect second choice for a baseless agility build, where you just run on foot all night fighting the horde.  I was going to try a build like that, but too busy playing my str/intel build atm. 

[STyK_]

23 minutes ago, meganoth said:

No, I just made some light fun of the fact that you mentioned your loot setting a bit too often. Actually I plan to use lower loot settings myself eventually but first want to wait until I'm sure the bugs with actual loot being less than the percentage suggests are not coming back.

 

But my OTHER point that your strategy has to be to buy perks instead of waiting for the loot when you decrease loot was me being absolutely serious. Lets assume the game is balanced at vanilla settings and going for the perk instead of waiting for the seeds to drop is just a decision between equal options. Then decreasing one of those options to be 4 times worse can't possibly be balanced anymore, quite obviously now buying the perk must be tremenduously better than waiting for the seeds to drop.

Tables are better, mega crush actually exists and not just one to put up on the wall as a trophy. Actually found 2 at once in my tips vid at the stripclub, and a tier 1 toilet pistol, if only I had some 9mm on me.
I do every time, I was just pointing out its costs 10-12 points for any other class out side those two classes. With a pacifist class, not fighting for this just A solution, then everyone but that class has to put points in another tree to solve they're food problem. Then the pacifist class has to put points into another class for weapons cause it wouldn't have any. To me that's balanced. 'Charismatic nature' would make a good perk for that tree too, hell it could have 'from the shadows' too, I don't use it till endgame, its not really essential to the agility tree even on my settings.

[Jost Amman]

35 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

i know thats why i did say its working great, but imagine a total random ai, where you would see them hitting pois because it was in their way instead of walking around it, would make the world interesting, hell imagine coming across a hole that was dug because they "thought" something was down there, dumb zombies can be fun too lol

For wandering hordes that would be fun I guess, but for the Blood Moon hordes it would be a disaster IMO.

Imagine having to plan a base that can virtually be attacked from every side! It'd be a builder's nightmare lol

[meganoth]

2 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

For wandering hordes that would be fun I guess, but for the Blood Moon hordes it would be a disaster IMO.

Imagine having to plan a base that can virtually be attacked from every side! It'd be a builder's nightmare lol

It would be quite easy actually. Too easy. At the current damage potential of the zombies they could never breach a double concrete wall if every zombie attacked a different spot. So at a minimum their block damage has to be increased. Much damage all around the walls means that every horde night then needs 2 days of mining and boring repairs afterwards.

[Jost Amman]

37 minutes ago, pregnable said:

Yeah, strength is really good, and probably does not really need heavy armor, cooking or either the sledge or club, heh. 

 

Agility is kinda cool, not sure about balance currently, but being able to sneak really well without a base is a nice alternative.  Random dog packs should probably not be able to zero in on  you when you are sneaking though... not sure if they do.  Parkour is amazing. 

 

Intelligence is really strong, but does not have a starter weapon so its usually a second pick, and charismatic nature could use a change.  I still like putting the last tier of barter as the last rank of charismatic nature. 

 

Perception is kinda meh, but depending on the balance of the wrench skill it could almost be on par with strength.  If you can harvest enough metal with it while questing, to build a base, you could follow the iron frame path of building.  I tried it once and it was okay, but having to get clay was a little lame.  Depending on the balance of metal pipes and stuff you get though, it could be really good, and wrenches are not bad weapons if you invest in it. 

 

I am not even sure about fortitude.  Definitely a lot of good stuff, but I usually do not grab much from it.  I used to always rush farming, but now I go intelligence for building second.  It is probably a perfect second choice for a baseless agility build, where you just run on foot all night fighting the horde.  I was going to try a build like that, but too busy playing my str/intel build atm. 

IMO people are too much into specialization.

That's simply the wrong approach (at least for SP) since to survive you need skills from ALL attribute trees.

 

Think about it, most useful utility and weapon skills can be raised to Rank 3 pretty quick.

I know, people want to experience the higher levels of their favorite perks as soon as they can ... and that's where they fail to exploit the real potential of the perk system.

 

My idea is that up to level 30 or so you're supposed to only invest in survival skills and combat skills depending on what weapons/armor you've found.

Then, in mid to late game, when you have all sorts of stuff you've looted, you can choose what specialization you want/like more.

At that point you'll probably have already invested into Rank 3 of most attributes and the next steps would be to decide where to invest deeper.

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

It would be quite easy actually. Too easy. At the current damage potential of the zombies they could never breach a double concrete wall if every zombie attacked a different spot. So at a minimum their block damage has to be increased. Much damage all around the walls means that every horde night then needs 2 days of mining and boring repairs afterwards.

I disagree.

 

As you may remember currently we have the "stacking" bonus that zombies get when there's more than one bashing on a wall. If you have to defend from too many directions at the same time, especially on later horde nights and/or with higher max-alive settings, you may "skip" (or just not notice in time) some of the zombies destroying part of your wall while you're busy handling the other sides.

[pregnable]

30 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

IMO people are too much into specialization.

That's simply the wrong approach (at least for SP) since to survive you need skills from ALL attribute trees.

 

Think about it, most useful utility and weapon skills can be raised to Rank 3 pretty quick.

I know, people want to experience the higher levels of their favorite perks as soon as they can ... and that's where they fail to exploit the real potential of the perk system.

 

Well I was mostly talking about the attribute balance, and which one to pick first.  Even if you are going 3 in most and snatching up the better skills you are still starting somewhere.  Like I usually always start str, but sometimes switch at 3/3 miner/motherload or 4/4. 

 

With my str/intel build though I was planning on testing high end building and turrets, so I kinda had to go 10 intel, heh.  Although it is looking like I will be level 60+ before I ever find/buy a good turret or the recipe. 

 

Advanced engineering gives you like 33% more cement and 50% more steel, so going heavy into str and intel makes sense if you are building like that, and it also lets you power level.  I was getting 2 levels a day until day 22, without actually power gaming.  If I did everything optimal I am sure I could have leveled a lot faster. 

 

But yeah, I do not really disagree, although you do not really need any skills at all to survive, but certain builds it is probably better to go deep first.  Like baseless agility/fortitude build you might want to go deep agility and then fortitude, because that is all you really need. 

[faatal]

On 8/7/2020 at 12:46 AM, Blake_ said:

This is the biggest and fattest fps RARE bump (freezes screen for up to 10 seconds ) AKA The extremely crossable-road elevated- house exception that I showed you in pages 577 and 582 of this thread): 

I already fixed that message showing with the values in your picture.

 

It now does otherHeight <= -.001f. If you still are seeing it, then I need the new # it is showing.

On 8/7/2020 at 12:46 AM, Blake_ said:

While there are other fps problems (Shown in the other posts  and related to sleepers, loading and unloading of blocks and simultaneous spawns and loading happening)

music is, by far the culprit in a19 and a18(YES, I rolled back to check and damn, when ambience music [[the only one in a18]] started, transitioned and/or ended- the bumps were real. 

 

So there, if us peasants get a fix for the music handling = butter smooth gaming buttocks .

I told the programmer who works on music what you noticed.

 

You can turn music off. I play almost all games with music off, so have not noticed it in 7dtd.

[PoloPoPo]

An awkward thing I have noticed months ago already but always forgot to mention here:

 

Everytime you are inside a POI that has some areas outdoors (like a rooftop for example) and you are right before going outside you can hear a single and silent flapping sound of vulture wings if there actually are vultures outisde. It is like a warning that you are about to encounter at least one vulture outside.

 

Not sure if that is intended or a bug and if that has anybody noticed already.

[q123]

7 minutes ago, faatal said:

I already fixed that message showing with the values in your picture.

 

It now does otherHeight <= -.001f. If you still are seeing it, then I need the new # it is showing.

I remember I got these too - but I haven't seen it within the last days (since b177? dont know...).

I right now checked my logs from yesterday back until 2020-08-05 - there is no warning "Path node otherHeight" in

 

[LeonBraun]

On 7/1/2020 at 9:34 PM, LeonBraun said:

Oh, that flying drone ... When do you add blaster rifles? I want lightsabers and Sith !!! Just kidding. Seriously, what the hell!?  my friends and I hope this is a temporary solution? These effects ... Jesus ... kill me. This does NOT fit into the world of 7 days. As a solution - make the flying drone attack from 9mm mini-machine guns? Or a drone with a sawn-off shotgun !!! It will be possible to find use for this weapon of 1 shooting range. Treatment is disgusting. What are the red effects? Let .... hmm ... a drone shoots a dart at you or a syringe with an anesthetic (or a blood coagulation drug if the character has bleeding) - a new item that will need to be crafted. You melt metal - you make needles, you melt plastic - you make a shell for a syringe, but from what these or those solutions to make syringes should be made ... One could add a couple of new objects. Which can only be found. A pack of some medications from which you can cook painkillers or hemostatic solutions. Well, you get the idea.

 

[Laz Man]

7 minutes ago, LeonBraun said:

 

Samuel Jackson as next NPC confirmed? Lol

[enragedcamel]

Maybe this is a bit premature but do we know what is in stock for A20?

 

Vehicle mods?

 

Bandits?

 

End-game boss?

[Laynie]

19 hours ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

I had a zombie dream last night. It was interesting because I pretty much had nothing but melee options available to me, and most were not very effective at all. I remember trying a sledgehammer, but this was way too hard to swing multiple times. A bat was ok, but it wasn't reliable at cracking skulls. They always took a few swings and both wooden and aluminum bats would break pretty easily. 

Axes and tire irons were great, but would get stuck. So I created my own weapon, which was basically a metal spear. I made two round metal plates with holes in the center the diameter of the spear. One of those plates I welded to the spear about 10 inches from the head. Then I slipped on a heavy duty spring, about 8 inches long, and fixed one end to the plate. I slipped on the second plate and fixed that to the top of the spring only. This worked the best for me because I could shove the tip into skulls and the spring would pop it back out. After testing it out, I decided I wanted to make a short, double-sided version for closer encounters... but then I woke up.

This is great lmao 😂

[Jost Amman]

15 minutes ago, enragedcamel said:

Maybe this is a bit premature but do we know what is in stock for A20?

 

Vehicle mods?

 

Bandits?

 

End-game boss?

A20 will be all about the new Knuckle Rub™ system.