Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[MechanicalLens]

As you all know, I play on 90 minute days. If you were to do some basic math, that means I've been peddling my short, flimsy legs on a bicycle for over 30 in-game days now (if you were to round it down to 60 minute daylength), and I refuse to spend any points into Grease Monkey. Enough is enough. XP I never normally cheat, but I'm desperate for that knowledge, even if it means breaking into the "restricted section"; I need that minibike chassis schematic in my life. >.<

 

Spoiler alert: I didn't find it.

 

 

[madmole]

9 hours ago, Gazz said:

That's already in experimental.

Then the guy must be skipping tons of volumes and not following the path to have it not kick on and show the remaining few zed volumes.

9 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

That... goes against a lot of what you have been advocating for the past years. Unless I am mistaken, you believe (or believed) that looting should always take priority over crafting, correct? Or were you only referring to top tier gear? (ie quality level 6's)

You can't take broad stroke philosophies and apply it to ever meta in the game. Only under certain circumstances does crafting allow you better gear than loot and that is if you prioritize specializing in what you want to craft, probably specializing in blacksmith, and then you still need parts (obtained by looting/purchasing) to craft anything game changing.

I'd say in general that both have their purpose. I would not want to wait for looting to get me some decent tools, but that is my play style, so I typically dump points into miner and blacksmith so I can get blue tools ASAP. Early game crafting gets you what you need, but later game looting gets you what you want. Crafting holds a pretty strong place yet because you just can't always find a blue whatever, but you can craft one if you invest so I think it is fine this way.

9 hours ago, Vechs said:

To temper negative feedback about high tier clears with positive:

 

The agility tree is very satisfying and fun.  I just maxed out the entire tree last play session.  The weapons in agility feel like "Pick this if you want to dabble at everything".  It's got a submachine gun that got less damage but cheaper ammo than the proper machineguns.  It's got crossbows that can snipe like sniper rifles, but without fast follow-ups.  It's got knives that are decent at melee and also free up a hotbar slot by serving to butcher animals too.

 

The versatility of the tree is pretty great, and jumping 3 blocks and maxed out stealth is very satisfying.

Yeah I think it feels pretty great in general. I'd like to see a few polish points but overall it is in good shape.

[beerfly]

1 hour ago, SnowDog1942 said:

I'd be great at this, I am a master baiter.

You can sell snowdogs out there, this hotdog recipe is partly suspicious, we`ve already seen too many zombie dogs all around  🤠

[madmole]

8 hours ago, DaVegaNL said:

So.. Bandits being postponed another Alpha again? That's like.. I don't know.. The past 7 Alphas?

We are just not willing to push new stuff in when large sectors of the game are completely unpolished and need optimized and improved.

There is character R&D going on right now for new player outfits that replaces UMA. It just *MIGHT* work for bandits too so once players are overhauled then we can decide if bandits are skinned meshes like zombies, or assembled parts via pieces after the new player clothing/armor system is completed we can do some stress tests and see and make the right calls. Then bandits can sort of fall out of the character system instead of a separate effort.

[meganoth]

10 hours ago, FileMachete said:

hmm. hadn't considered that.

 

But wasn't thinking of it as a 5-10 minute duration (my bad for not clarifying that). It would raise gamestage permanently by 10.

 

Min/maxers could abuse it like you said a couple times, but they'd also have to deal with the increased difficulty, for the rest of their game, while not being at 'par' toon progression wise (multiple lvls behind zed difficulty compared to player lvl).

Honestly 10 loot gamestage at the start of the game has a far larger impact than 10 zombie gamestage, the difficulty increase is felt only sporadically when the number of dogs in a random dog horde is calculated 😉. And artificial internal values like gamestage should normally not be pulled into the limelight if you want to keep some immersion alive and dissuade people from meta-gaming.

 

 

6 hours ago, kuratowakiru said:

I loot this book poi like 3-4 times, nothing but paper. 12 x3, 36 loot chances and nothing but paper. IMO, that a bit off. 1/5 chance or something I'm fine with.  

I have more luck going to the large church or visit houses with the old bookshelf in it vs a poi that primary purpose is to... have book.

edit: and im at GS 154 too.

 

If you are not exxagerating here that would be a bug or a monumental streak of bad luck. I looted the small book-poi at the corner of the row of small shops and if I remember correctly the ~10 book shelves got me maybe 2 books. Less than the older book shelves for sure. To be sure someone would have to check the xmls (I can't at the moment).

 

[Callum123456789]

12 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Only 8k? Weak. 😛

what??? 7.62 and shotgun shells aren't cheap but you must be hardcore with bullets then lol

[beerfly]

15 minutes ago, madmole said:

We are just not willing to push new stuff in when large sectors of the game are completely unpolished and need optimized and improved.

There is character R&D going on right now for new player outfits that replaces UMA. It just *MIGHT* work for bandits too so once players are overhauled then we can decide if bandits are skinned meshes like zombies, or assembled parts via pieces after the new player clothing/armor system is completed we can do some stress tests and see and make the right calls. Then bandits can sort of fall out of the character system instead of a separate effort.

You guys proved in many ways that you either do it in the right way, or not. And that`s the best part, you always go further, not around. 

Ah, and time is what, it is relative !

 

 

[Callum123456789]

48 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

As you all know, I play on 90 minute days. If you were to do some basic math, that means I've been peddling my short, flimsy legs on a bicycle for over 30 in-game days now (if you were to round it down to 60 minute daylength), and I refuse to spend any points into Grease Monkey. Enough is enough. XP I never normally cheat, but I'm desperate for that knowledge, even if it means breaking into the "restricted section"; I need that minibike chassis schematic in my life. >.<

 

Spoiler alert: I didn't find it.

 

 

ah that's unlucky i have been able to build a gyrocopter, 4x4 and motorcycle with all schematics but o...h my the wait...was real🤣 

[MechanicalLens]

5 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

what??? 7.62 and shotgun shells aren't cheap but you must be hardcore with bullets then lol

In my last world in A18 I had an entire storage chest full of bullet casings. Git gud. 😛

[smokingpaper]

33 minutes ago, madmole said:

I'd say in general that both have their purpose. I would not want to wait for looting to get me some decent tools, but that is my play style, so I typically dump points into miner and blacksmith so I can get blue tools ASAP. Early game crafting gets you what you need, but later game looting gets you what you want. Crafting holds a pretty strong place yet because you just can't always find a blue whatever, but you can craft one if you invest so I think it is fine this way.

Yeah I think it feels pretty great in general. I'd like to see a few polish points but overall it is in good shape.

Why is master chef under strength and not under fortitude for example??
I don't get why you need to be strong to cook some food. 
Is this a popeye sailorman thingy?

 

[Callum123456789]

Just now, MechanicalLens said:

In my last world in A18 I had an entire storage chest full of bullet casings. Git gud. 😛

i envy you oh bullet master 

Just now, smokingpaper said:

Why is master chef under strength and not under fortitude for example??
I don't get why you need to be strong to cook some food. 
Is this a popeye sailorman thingy?

 

i think the concept behind it is that you are a strong person and strong people usually know how to eat well so they can cook good foods? i think that's the way it is

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, smokingpaper said:

Why is master chef under strength and not under fortitude for example??
I don't get why you need to be strong to cook some food. 
Is this a popeye sailorman thingy?

 

No, it's because you require immense strength to lift the frying pan, to stack the plates, and to carry the pot of boiling water from one side of the kitchen to the other. 😛

[smokingpaper]

53 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

As you all know, I play on 90 minute days. If you were to do some basic math, that means I've been peddling my short, flimsy legs on a bicycle for over 30 in-game days now (if you were to round it down to 60 minute daylength), and I refuse to spend any points into Grease Monkey. Enough is enough. XP I never normally cheat, but I'm desperate for that knowledge, even if it means breaking into the "restricted section"; I need that minibike chassis schematic in my life. >.<

 

Spoiler alert: I didn't find it.

 

 

Maybe you get lucky at at a trader. I was missing a motorcycle chassis and/or the schematic for it.
So after a while i finally found one in an aidrop! hooray.
Love how the new books look btw, 3D stuff. Bit funny though that you only get like 5 paper from this huge stack of books.

[MechanicalLens]

1 minute ago, smokingpaper said:

Maybe you get lucky at at a trader. I was missing a motorcycle chassis and/or the schematic for it.
So after a while i finally found one in an aidrop! hooray.
Love how the new books look btw, 3D stuff. Bit funny though that you only get like 5 paper from this huge stack of books.

Nope, I have 3 traders so far, and they all keep on offering the handlebars for the minibike for sale over and over, but not the chassis. 😛

[RhinoW]

22 minutes ago, madmole said:

We are just not willing to push new stuff in when large sectors of the game are completely unpolished and need optimized and improved.

There is character R&D going on right now for new player outfits that replaces UMA. It just *MIGHT* work for bandits too so once players are overhauled then we can decide if bandits are skinned meshes like zombies, or assembled parts via pieces after the new player clothing/armor system is completed we can do some stress tests and see and make the right calls. Then bandits can sort of fall out of the character system instead of a separate effort.

I think an assembly system (similar to fallout 4's) for the raiders would be the best call in the long run, for more variety and without having to manually manage it. I honestly think the zombies should also get a similar treatment, to make the core game loop a bit more interesting. It becomes boring and rather unimmersive seeing the same zombie 5 times in the same area (considering they are all made to be unique). 

Has TFP ever considered adding canon fodder zombies? (kinda like we don't care about l4d's commons or killing floor's clots being repeated).

[Roland]

When Madmole played his strength build for the first time he didn’t like having to invest in a different attribute to raise cooking....

[Trekkan]

50 minutes ago, madmole said:

I'd say in general that both have their purpose. I would not want to wait for looting to get me some decent tools, but that is my play style, so I typically dump points into miner and blacksmith so I can get blue tools ASAP. Early game crafting gets you what you need, but later game looting gets you what you want. Crafting holds a pretty strong place yet because you just can't always find a blue whatever, but you can craft one if you invest so I think it is fine this way.

Yeah I think it feels pretty great in general. I'd like to see a few polish points but overall it is in good shape.

This is actually the current "problem" we are running into.  Our group has spent a significant amount of time collecting weapon/armor/tool parts, increasing our crafting skills, etc.  However, now that we're starting to get drops for tier 6 stuff, it feels like that time and effort are a waste.  Not that it didn't serve its purpose at the time, it did.  But now?  There's no need to collect any (weapon/armor/tool) parts, because the only way to get something better is to loot it.  There's no point in the skills we've dropped points in, because... the only way to get something better is to loot it.

 

I'm not saying "the system is broken, change it all!"  but it would be nice if it didn't feel like a waste after a time. We can respec, I get it, but... it doesn't change that once you get to tier 6 drops at all, there's almost no point in crafting.  So, if there's something (and I don't claim to know what) that you can do to help make crafting at a higher tier retain some value, please do it.

[jorbascrumps]

39 minutes ago, madmole said:

We are just not willing to push new stuff in when large sectors of the game are completely unpolished and need optimized and improved.

There is character R&D going on right now for new player outfits that replaces UMA. It just *MIGHT* work for bandits too so once players are overhauled then we can decide if bandits are skinned meshes like zombies, or assembled parts via pieces after the new player clothing/armor system is completed we can do some stress tests and see and make the right calls. Then bandits can sort of fall out of the character system instead of a separate effort.

I know this isn't an announcement or confirmed in any way but this is potentially very exciting.

[Aldranon]

6 minutes ago, Trekkan said:

This is actually the current "problem" we are running into.  Our group has spent a significant amount of time collecting weapon/armor/tool parts, increasing our crafting skills, etc.  However, now that we're starting to get drops for tier 6 stuff, it feels like that time and effort are a waste.  Not that it didn't serve its purpose at the time, it did.  But now?  There's no need to collect any (weapon/armor/tool) parts, because the only way to get something better is to loot it.  There's no point in the skills we've dropped points in, because... the only way to get something better is to loot it.

 

I'm not saying "the system is broken, change it all!"  but it would be nice if it didn't feel like a waste after a time. We can respec, I get it, but... it doesn't change that once you get to tier 6 drops at all, there's almost no point in crafting.  So, if there's something (and I don't claim to know what) that you can do to help make crafting at a higher tier retain some value, please do it.

As long as you can get all your points back, then the game is not broken, per se, but it's more of a timing issue, when to turn into your "Final Form" using the "mind wipe" sauce.

 

Once you have a big farm, vehicles and can make steel then "wipe" and pour points in to your favorite 2-3 weapons.

[q123]

30 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

No, it's because you require immense strength to lift the frying pan, to stack the plates, and to carry the pot of boiling water from one side of the kitchen to the other. 😛

True - especially the good foods needs a really strong person for carry, see:

https://www.google.com/search?q=oktoberfest+bedienung+bier+rekord&tbm=isch&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiSsbn__JDrAhWPtKQKHY-EACgQrNwCKAB6BQgBENoB&biw=1654&bih=936

 

🍻

[canadianbluebeer]

54 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

what??? 7.62 and shotgun shells aren't cheap but you must be hardcore with bullets then lol

by day 80 I'm making them in 10k or more batches across 6 chem stations and 6 workbenches.

 

Of course, I do tend to overdo things.

 

[meganoth]

27 minutes ago, Trekkan said:

This is actually the current "problem" we are running into.  Our group has spent a significant amount of time collecting weapon/armor/tool parts, increasing our crafting skills, etc.  However, now that we're starting to get drops for tier 6 stuff, it feels like that time and effort are a waste.  Not that it didn't serve its purpose at the time, it did.  But now?  There's no need to collect any (weapon/armor/tool) parts, because the only way to get something better is to loot it.  There's no point in the skills we've dropped points in, because... the only way to get something better is to loot it.

 

I'm not saying "the system is broken, change it all!"  but it would be nice if it didn't feel like a waste after a time. We can respec, I get it, but... it doesn't change that once you get to tier 6 drops at all, there's almost no point in crafting.  So, if there's something (and I don't claim to know what) that you can do to help make crafting at a higher tier retain some value, please do it.

Oh, you poor poor man. So you specced into shotguns crafting perk and now it is completely useless (EXCEPT FOR THAT TOTALLY USELESS 100% DAMAGE INCREASE!!!!!!!!!!). 😉

[Onarr]

1 hour ago, madmole said:

Yeah I think it feels pretty great in general. I'd like to see a few polish points but overall it is in good shape.

I have to disagree. This of course is personal opinion, but I find agility severely lacking. PoIs are not well designed for stealth - closet zombies, neccessary jumps, trigger events etc. Agility weapons also appear harder to find. And finally it has no utility perks that would improve resource gain.

 

Benefit I see is that it is most effective build for clearing high tier PoI. There it shines. I guess for higher difficulities as well. But honestly I have never went agility build from the get go. Which is shame, because pistols are my favorite weapon.

[Kalen]

7 minutes ago, Onarr said:

I have to disagree. This of course is personal opinion, but I find agility severely lacking. PoIs are not well designed for stealth - closet zombies, neccessary jumps, trigger events etc. Agility weapons also appear harder to find. And finally it has no utility perks that would improve resource gain.

 

Benefit I see is that it is most effective build for clearing high tier PoI. There it shines. I guess for higher difficulities as well. But honestly I have never went agility build from the get go. Which is shame, because pistols are my favorite weapon.

Parkour is almost over powered, to be honest.... I love that perk

[STyK_]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

When Madmole played his strength build for the first time he didn’t like having to invest in a different attribute to raise cooking....

Exactly how l feel about agility and having to invest in strength and fortitude to be self sufficient. Intel and perception feel this too I'm sure. I mean I can see one but both. Only way to balance that would be to give it it's own tree make making them cheaper then investing 3 into strength and 3 into fortitude, actually 5 after the perks you want, but I'm sure you guys don't want to do that.  

Edit: Make a pacifist class, Soccer mom, and put the master chef and living off the land there. At least then its under one tree making it cheaper. You'd need more to fill it out to suit that class but it would balance things out. 

 

Vending machine in the working stiffs didn't work again, 4th time in a row. Bug? On purpose?