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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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3 hours ago, madmole said:

Legendary will be sort of like finding another tier, or be how a pink stone axe is compared to a brown iron pick. You might see a yellow legendary Iron pick that is arguably better than a pink steel pick. A choice!

I'd hope they will be more outstanding than "just" one more tier basically. I remember this Indian stone axe from back then, which lacked a real incentive to use, since a bad iron fireaxe was easily better. 

 

I'd rather the legendaries were super super rare (i.e. within 100 player hours you shouldn't count on finding a legendary), but hugely superior in stats. In my opinion, it should be an item to tell your friends about, not "hey, I found the level 7 steel sledge"). I don't see this really disrupting game balance. But that's just my thoughts.

3 hours ago, Demandred1957 said:

The grind to get the vehicles is itself the "preparation" for the horde..

Also parking it nearby full of gas, and fully repaired.

All of those things take time, and should not be trivialized.

I honestly wonder whether that one is serious - no offence, but do you usually have your vehicle out of gas? and even if it was on little gas, you could drive some hundred meters, slowly refuel, get back on and chill your life. No, just as with underground bases, the decision to close the super easy loopholes is good.

 

Discussing the implementations is another story (see vultures), but the idea sure is right. 

4 hours ago, PoloPoPo said:

Another example: If you are able to nerd pole without any effort to a POI's main loot that is game changing as well and should not be possible from a game design's perspective. 

I don't know if a random placement of loot is possible, but the idea has been brought up by some people already. It kind of defeats the "dungeon design" of many POIs, but that would be a small price to pay in my opinion. 

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3 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

So no more driving around in town or in the country and running zombies over for sport then? 😕

Especially the final one that is part of that specific melee weapon/gun "class" that you happen to be using in that world. RNG loves to have a laugh.

Not without risk of getting a critical on your vehicle. It might be similar to the current system, where you can take a few hits but multiple in a row will lead to catastrophe.

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Posted (edited)

My take on recent topics: 
Item Degradation: Just play with item loss on death instead, item degradation adds some extra annoying micromanagement and doesn't really reward playing well
Not being able to cheese horde nights by driving around in a vehicle is pretty undeniably a good thing, not sure why anyone would say otherwise. Game literally says "Tower Defense" in the descriptions, building a fort for horde night is fun and definitely the intention, then spending a week exploring/rebuilding/reinforcing ect
Legendary Items: Should certainly be rare but not overwhelmingly so, should definitely have an impact when you find them, I would say whoever's suggestion of "probably not finding one in 100hrs" is a bad thing but maybe 24-50hrs on average, of course GS calculations would come into play. If anything it should certainly not be timelocked or else you'll have people afking for days to find one.

Overall I really like most of the game design philosophy of TFP. 

Another thing I will never understand is why people would want zombie ai to be exploitable. Anyway thanks for doing your best to make it not exploitable as much as possible while keeping building a well designed base important.

Edited by Tmodloader (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

Wonder if we're getting close to A19 Stable, seems like last patch note was significantly less than the rest.  A good sign. Not that I don't want more content but just good that stuff might be stable.

If you guys do another patch for Junk Drones during A19 would new world creation be required again? I am unfamiliar with how the A18-A18.4 cycle was

Edited by Tmodloader (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, EmpV said:

Can the devs share what the intentions are for looting vs crafting balance come final game release?  
Since alpha 18, with the addition of parts to recipes and tier 6 being loot only, there seems to be a shift in preference to looting. This may be just testing and balancing new systems as part of the alpha process, but I am wondering if crafting weapons/tools/armor is intended to be a comparable choice to looting or trading to acquire the same items?  

I expect that looting/traders will still be sources of some materials or parts needed for crafting. 

I look at it like this: Crafting = Convenience. Looting = Reward for effort when you get the lvl 6.

I think it kinda makes sense because you can have pretty decent gear without having to hope you get that awesome item. Breaking most of the rubbish ones you find will make you a decent weapon/tool until you find the awesome one you want.

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20 hours ago, Pegasus said:

Easy, the same way it did before.  Pop out one of the mods at random and then you'd have to go back in and reset it how you wanted it.  And if your inventory was full when it happened it'd fall on the floor and disappear forever if you were unlucky.  And then you'd come here and complain like holy hell because it happened to your legendary club of doom and how it completely ruined the game for you and you were never going to play again.

 

Like I said, this was already in the game and people hated it like poison on a cracker.

I too remember those effin days! I hated it 😅 If I find an awesome item, I want it to stay that way. 

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2 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Has anyone else seen wooden bows in loot? I don't think I have found one in the entirety of A19 EXP so far...

primitive I think I have found a few times. No good bows/crossbows though.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

Wonder if we're getting close to A19 Stable, seems like last patch note was significantly less than the rest.  A good sign. Not that I don't want more content but just good that stuff might be stable.

If you guys do another patch for Junk Drones during A19 would new world creation be required again? I am unfamiliar with how the A18-A18.4 cycle was

Usually point releases(.1,.2,etc) don't require restarts. Never a guarantee though.

Edited by bdubyah (see edit history)

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53 minutes ago, Demandred1957 said:

primitive I think I have found a few times. No good bows/crossbows though.

I've found wooden and bow parts in loot, can't recall where or when but I was also finding t1 pistols, and iron tools around the same time.   Ofc, I was also finding Q6 blunderbusses, and Q6 stone tools.

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8 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

That could be easily abused to also get better loot and kind of skip stone age earlier.

Exactly, but not for 'free'. If I understand how gamestage works now then eating a candy that adds 10 to your gamestage on say Day 2 would be, very roughly, equal to 2~4 days of play.

 

As GS seems to be the main 'progression' meter, effecting how many and what of zeds spawn, & loot tables, then risk vs. reward remains as designed. The player actually punishes themselves somewhat by using the candy. If they didn't use it then, to them, they're fighting fewer/easier zeds to get all the non-gamestaged loot like mech parts, etc.

 

They don't gain an advantage, they're upping the difficulty a bit, but in a more granular way than say upping Difficulty by 1 setting,

 

Think of what the results are if taken to extreme.

New game, player spawns in, magically comes across 10 of these candies, eats them all.

They're now at GS 101. As a level 1 toon. With a Q1 wood club, stone axe, bow, no armor and 4 perk points. Good luck with that.

 

Though, gotta say it wouldn't suprise me to see a few players react to this as a red cape challenge. How many "That's all ya got?!" candies can you eat day 1 and make it to day 8 without dieing?

 

I'll be honest, this idea came from considering how I was going to tweak things to shorten the new extended primitive stage, which I personally am finding somewhat slow. Though I am glad so many are really enjoying it.

Of all the various ways to speed things up a bit, bumping gamestage a few points, likely a couple times over the first week, seemed like both the easiest and the one that would least mess with the vanilla progression.

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1 hour ago, Toban said:

I look at it like this: Crafting = Convenience. Looting = Reward for effort when you get the lvl 6.

I think it kinda makes sense because you can have pretty decent gear without having to hope you get that awesome item. Breaking most of the rubbish ones you find will make you a decent weapon/tool until you find the awesome one you want.

Bats are the only weapon that don't require parts though that aren't primitive and can do a lot of damage / don't require as much stamina. It's the only skill you can go into day 1.

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Im more curious what the names for legendary loot will be, it would be fun if we could get say a whole set of Madmoles Apocolyptic Gear, where it buffs stats and give bonuses to madmoles favorite way to play the game, like imagine finding a legendary miners helmet, that gave +2 into miner 69er, if it was possible to go above the level 5 rank with it as far as block damage goes it could make it amusing to see people wanting to collect miners gear simply for the bonuses to mining, admittedly i want some more effects to come from clothing, like a full set of military armor could give you 1 point into all weapon skills as if im not mistaken when training you have to use a variety of weapons anyways, legendary gear is always fun, having it as just glasses and goggles right now kinda sucks lol, but opens up for more.

 

Like having a full set of hazmat gear and it grants you the ability that every hit on an irradiated zombie will stop their regeneration

Full set of doctors garbs gives your medical items a better healing effect

Scientists outfit grants you an extra robotic turret active for a max of 3

 

stuff like that, could have a downside that they could just be clothes or armor that has lower stats with the legendary effect as a tradeoff, could be interesting, whats everyones thoughts on stuff like that for legendary gear as a change of topic

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Interesting topics for filling some pages in the forum, but come on!! I want bandits, legendary items and random encounters. I don’t want to see the work on this stuff delayed because a group of people want to bring back the past. This game needs finishing and maybe for 7dtd2 they can do degradation. Bandits & random encounters will add so much more than reverting to degradation. Bring on the new stuff!!

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is there anyone else here like me who just gets s**t tons of resources to craft lot's of bullets? just a random thing 🤣

currently on day 80 and crafted like 8k bullets

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Tmodloader said:

Wonder if we're getting close to A19 Stable, seems like last patch note was significantly less than the rest.  A good sign. Not that I don't want more content but just good that stuff might be stable.

If you guys do another patch for Junk Drones during A19 would new world creation be required again? I am unfamiliar with how the A18-A18.4 cycle was

Well usually how it works in my experience is this:

 

First the game version is released in experimental only ... such as in this case.

 

Then, when the version is mostly okay it's released to the first stable version.

 

Then, you will have the choice of playing the stable version until the next patch, without all of the extra updates/potential wipes of the experimental version ... until the next stable version comes out (19.1 or whatever).

 

OR ... you can remain on the experimental branch, and get to play with all the fun stuff as they tweak it just like now.

 

Some people choose the stable branch because it means that the game will be mostly stable without requiring weekly wipes as new features are added or tested.  Some people choose to be on the experimental branch to get all the new goodies first and provide feedback.

 

Then, depending on the state of development, there may be additional "stable" patches (19.2, 19.3, etc) until the game is pretty much where they want it to be and all eyes turn to A20.  Which, from all the hints, is where the next batch of really good stuff is being investigated.  :)  One thing is for sure, it's not a boring process.

 

Sorry, I forgot the second part of your question.  I think for the first stable release it's always recommended that you start a new game.  Subsequent releases I believe they usually strongly recommend that you start a new game, but depending on what was released/changed sometimes you can continue your save.  You can usually count on people on the forums to say whether or not they were able to continue their save successfully.  Or you can try it and start a new save if you get errors or weirdness.

Edited by Pegasus (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, Toban said:

I look at it like this: Crafting = Convenience. Looting = Reward for effort when you get the lvl 6.

I think it kinda makes sense because you can have pretty decent gear without having to hope you get that awesome item. Breaking most of the rubbish ones you find will make you a decent weapon/tool until you find the awesome one you want.

But is crafting an item really more convenient?  Maybe items that don’t now require parts, but since parts have been added back in, it is a lot of work to gather the materials to craft weapons/tools/armor. 

You can’t mine and sit in your base and craft these items. You have to be out there doing quests to earn dukes and looting parts just like everyone else. You are taking the same risks. You also can’t spam craft to get lucky specs due to the limited number of parts. 
So why couldn’t there be a small chance at least to craft a tier 6 just like there is a chance to loot a tier 6?

 

I do really enjoy looting and the new tiered loot, but I have also been trying to find usefulness in the current crafting system. The devs added parts back to the game, so I am making an effort to try to craft with them.
You are correct in saying that looting is more rewarding because the way things are balanced currently, the item parts I loot may as well be dukes.  Hopefully as things get tweaked the balance will get better. 

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3 hours ago, Laynie said:

I too remember those effin days! I hated it 😅 If I find an awesome item, I want it to stay that way. 

Thank you for remembering the same thing!  After being smacked repeatedly over this and told that I was wrong I thought I was imagining remembering this, or if I was somehow remembering a modded server or something.

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21 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

Thank you for remembering the same thing!  After being smacked repeatedly over this and told that I was wrong I thought I was imagining remembering this, or if I was somehow remembering a modded server or something.

I don't remember anyone saying you were wrong, i was using it for constructive arguments, i miss those days where a weapon would slowly get weaker cause one part inside was breaking faster than the others, needing a repair or replacement, its like with the vehicle crits madmole is talking about, i wouldn't mind weapon crits for as they lose durability it might jam while firing, or jam when reloading, it would feed some realism even without degredation in there

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I had a zombie dream last night. It was interesting because I pretty much had nothing but melee options available to me, and most were not very effective at all. I remember trying a sledgehammer, but this was way too hard to swing multiple times. A bat was ok, but it wasn't reliable at cracking skulls. They always took a few swings and both wooden and aluminum bats would break pretty easily. 

Axes and tire irons were great, but would get stuck. So I created my own weapon, which was basically a metal spear. I made two round metal plates with holes in the center the diameter of the spear. One of those plates I welded to the spear about 10 inches from the head. Then I slipped on a heavy duty spring, about 8 inches long, and fixed one end to the plate. I slipped on the second plate and fixed that to the top of the spring only. This worked the best for me because I could shove the tip into skulls and the spring would pop it back out. After testing it out, I decided I wanted to make a short, double-sided version for closer encounters... but then I woke up.

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One thing i think would be neat is if we could program the drone to go mining, tell it to gather a certain resource and then when its inventory is full it returns to the bedroll, that would be useful, you could mine for coal and it could mine for nitrate, sure it would take some survival out of it but it would help, i could be out looting and it could be out gathering stone for me, should it get attacked you could have a pager on you, made of junk of course that would notify you of drone has taken critical damage, please retrieve and it gives you a set of coordinates, would be a stepping stone to npcs living in your base doing your farming and stuff should u be able to recruit npcs down the road

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Here's a pot hole filled idea that might cover what I think some of the degradation advocates are really after, more to do in late game.

 

Include specialized Loot Bonuses into the individual Weapon Perks.

 

If you spec into Pistols, your chance of looting Pistols increases a bit, as compared to looting a shotgun, not an overall increase.

 

And also cap the Tier/Quality of looted non-spec'd weapons.

 

Don't kill me yet. :)

 

Not suggesting that a player would loot a T3/Q6 Pistol any earlier than they can now.

 

Point would be that instead of current, where you're looting the same Tier & Quality of -all- weapons at the same time, and you usually end up with one of each weapon at T3/Q6, including the ones you haven't spec'd into. You'd wind up having the top gear in what you spec'd into, and then later on you would have the choice to expand your skills into other weapons, and then be able to loot those in top T/Q.

 

Another couple potential benefits is that it could split up the generic "firearms" loot entry into two parts by adding a new, "specFirearms".

Meaning they could nerf general number of guns in loot, and still allow players to loot what they're mainly after.

And by lowering all the other non-spec weapons T/Q they've reduced some of the excess Dukes.

Could also be done for Heavy & Light Armor and melee weapons.

 

Like I said, potholes fer sure. Would need to factor in perceptions so enough 'random' non-spec weapons in loot to not seem overly artificial.

And answer, 'whats the highest Tier or Quality of non-spec stuff a player should be able to loot?". Maybe T1/Q6, T2/Q4, T3/Q3 ?

But it could add late game progression & a late game incentive to loot.

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3 minutes ago, FileMachete said:

Here's a pot hole filled idea that might cover what I think some of the degradation advocates are really after, more to do in late game.

 

Include specialized Loot Bonuses into the individual Weapon Perks.

 

If you spec into Pistols, your chance of looting Pistols increases a bit, as compared to looting a shotgun, not an overall increase.

 

And also cap the Tier/Quality of looted non-spec'd weapons.

 

Don't kill me yet. :)

 

Not suggesting that a player would loot a T3/Q6 Pistol any earlier than they can now.

 

Point would be that instead of current, where you're looting the same Tier & Quality of -all- weapons at the same time, and you usually end up with one of each weapon at T3/Q6, including the ones you haven't spec'd into. You'd wind up having the top gear in what you spec'd into, and then later on you would have the choice to expand your skills into other weapons, and then be able to loot those in top T/Q.

 

Another couple potential benefits is that it could split up the generic "firearms" loot entry into two parts by adding a new, "specFirearms".

Meaning they could nerf general number of guns in loot, and still allow players to loot what they're mainly after.

And by lowering all the other non-spec weapons T/Q they've reduced some of the excess Dukes.

Could also be done for Heavy & Light Armor and melee weapons.

 

Like I said, potholes fer sure. Would need to factor in perceptions so enough 'random' non-spec weapons in loot to not seem overly artificial.

And answer, 'whats the highest Tier or Quality of non-spec stuff a player should be able to loot?". Maybe T1/Q6, T2/Q4, T3/Q3 ?

But it could add late game progression & a late game incentive to loot.

i like where your head is at, specialize in something and your character "looks" harder for it than others, maybe missing the shotgun on the rack cause the pistol stood out more, i.e. shotgun not shown in loot.  it would need tweaking to be sure but i like that idea, almost like a perk called

 

Raven - You like shiny stuff and nothing is shinier than what you love 5% chance to find speced equipment in loot -5% to other non speced items, or something like that lol

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4 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

One thing i think would be neat is if we could program the drone to go mining, tell it to gather a certain resource and then when its inventory is full it returns to the bedroll, that would be useful, you could mine for coal and it could mine for nitrate, sure it would take some survival out of it but it would help, i could be out looting and it could be out gathering stone for me, should it get attacked you could have a pager on you, made of junk of course that would notify you of drone has taken critical damage, please retrieve and it gives you a set of coordinates, would be a stepping stone to npcs living in your base doing your farming and stuff should u be able to recruit npcs down the road

Ever play Deep Rock Galactic? When you play solo, you can have drone help you mine. It cannot locate it for you and it does not carry it for you though. You hold ctrl and click at the ore, and the drone starts mining it. You have to pick it up and place it in the mule. I just bring this up because the whole entire process doesn't need to be taken over by the drone... you could always have it do some specific but reasonable task to help you out.

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1 minute ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Ever play Deep Rock Galactic? When you play solo, you can have drone help you mine. It cannot locate it for you and it does not carry it for you though. You hold ctrl and click at the ore, and the drone starts mining it. You have to pick it up and place it in the mule. I just bring this up because the whole entire process doesn't need to be taken over by the drone... you could always have it do some specific but reasonable task to help you out.

Never played it, sounds interesting though, i might have a look at it, im kinda hooked on Hardspace: Shipbreaker right now between my 7 days to die and other games, its one where you rip apart ships in space and salvage the entire ship, or accidentally detonate the engine core and destroy a lot of the stuff you wanted to scavenge

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Just now, Phoenixshade35 said:

Never played it, sounds interesting though, i might have a look at it, im kinda hooked on Hardspace: Shipbreaker right now between my 7 days to die and other games, its one where you rip apart ships in space and salvage the entire ship, or accidentally detonate the engine core and destroy a lot of the stuff you wanted to scavenge

Ah... I was just looking at that recently, but haven't really seen anyone playing it yet.
Come to think of it, it appeared to me in the stream that showed off the drone, that the drone just picks a zombie nearby and starts attacking it. I suppose that's fine, but I think I would find it more like I was in control if I could do something like ctrl + click to choose which zombie it should target. Perhaps something like ctrl + left-click is shooting 9mm/turret ammo or something, and ctrl + right click tells the drone to target the zombie with rockets or some other explosive. Someone a few pages back was looking for more options to blast through walls... so maybe ctrl + right-click on some part of a wall as well.

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