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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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4 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

Its like this. You wouldn't have a landmine in a tier 1 poi would you? You leave that to the higher tiers. If it has a dog it shouldn't be a tier 1 poi.

Does it matter in what kind of POI a landmine is? A player is free to go inside whatever POI he wants so he might stumble across landmines on day 1. Nothing wrong with that if you ask me. Everyone has to eventually experience landmines and usually that happens by trying to pick up the "pot" and die. Does not matter whether that happens on day 1 or day 10 if you ask me as it only happens once.

 

Same with dogs inside a POI. Even on day 1 with a level 1 stone club you can take down a single dog. But what if the player prefers to go inside the huge buildings first? That's what I did. My first visit when I was new to the game (A18) was the Pop&Pills hospital in Navezgane on day 1 with landmines, dogs and everything in it. My first death was due to me standing on spikes in front of a door without knowing about spikes. I have died countless times in there, especially at nightfall. I loved the challenge (which was only a challenge because I was a noob) and in the end felt excitement for that game immediately. Personally, I do expect a survival game to be challenging.

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Edit: For example, there's a construction site POI with a zombie bear spawn in it, down in cave. I've seen plenty of 7D2D reddit posts of new players being freaked out that they died to the thing. Should that bear spawn be removed? Should the zombie bears be removed from the Bear Den, and dogs and wolves from Doggos, until x day or gamestage? I'd argue no.

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21 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

Because Madmole said pretty much the opposite on a live dev stream, don't recall hearing 'oh except for the hard coded poi's'

Then he was mistaken or you misunderstood since there has been a dog horde coded to appear anywhere from Day 2 to Day 5 depending on how fast you are increasing your gamestage since forever and I don’t see any change to the wandering hordes for A19. 

 

What I believe he was talking about was normal biome spawns. Predators won’t spawn during the day in the forest as a regular wilderness spawn, but that doesn’t include wandering hordes or POI spawns. 
 

so you should never get a daytime wolf randomly showing up as you travel through the forest But you COULD get a wolf wandering horde during the day in the forest. In like manner, the Bear Den isn’t going to be empty because you walked into it at 10am on Day One. There WILL be bears even though as long as you don’t travel at night you would no longer run into a wilderness bear at that time of day. 
 

Hope that clears it up for you. 

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2 minutes ago, Roland said:

What I believe he was talking about was normal biome spawns. Predators won’t spawn during the day in the forest as a regular wilderness spawn, but that doesn’t include wandering hordes or POI spawns. 

 

Correction: Unless this has been changed in this most recent patch, regular wolves have a very rare chance of spawning during the day in the forest biome.

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19 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

Its like this. You wouldn't have a landmine in a tier 1 poi would you? You leave that to the higher tiers. If it has a dog it shouldn't be a tier 1 poi.

A landmine at the default level of play one shot kills. Even going in with primitive gear and reacting perfectly it is likely to kill you. 
 

A dog at the default level of play is unlikely to one shot kill. Geared up with primitive gear and reacting perfectly you are likely to kill it. 
 

So I agree a landmine is an iffy choice for a tier 1 POI but not a dog.

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2 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

Does it matter in what kind of POI a landmine is? A player is free to go inside whatever POI he wants so he might stumble across landmines on day 1. Nothing wrong with that if you ask me. Everyone has to eventually experience landmines and usually that happens by trying to pick up the "pot" and die. Does not matter whether that happens on day 1 or day 10 if you ask me as it only happens once.

 

Same with dogs inside a POI. Even on day 1 with a level 1 stone club you can take down a single dog. But what if the player prefers to go inside the huge buildings first? That's what I did. My first visit when I was new to the game (A18) was the Pop&Pills hospital in Navezgane on day 1 with landmines, dogs and everything in it. My first death was due to me standing on spikes in front of a door without knowing about spikes. I have died countless times in there, especially at nightfall. I loved the challenge (which was only a challenge because I was a noob) and in the end felt excitement for that game immediately. Personally, I do expect a survival game to be challenging.

What diff are you referring to you can take down a zombie dog on on day 1 with a club? doesn't sound like nightmare speed or insane diff. Tier 1's get you geared to take on the rest of the world, if they have things your not equipped to take on your taking away from the point of your trader quests in the beginning. 

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1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

Correction: Unless this has been changed in this most recent patch, regular wolves have a very rare chance of spawning during the day in the forest biome.

You are correct. There is a very rare chance. 

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Just now, Roland said:

You are correct. There is a very rare chance. 

Alrighty then. To close this off, do you know if it's hardcoded for them NOT to spawn on day 1, or can they spawn anytime?

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2 minutes ago, STyK_ said:
9 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

 

What diff are you referring to you can take down a zombie dog on on day 1 with a club? doesn't sound like nightmare speed or insane diff.

Now you are getting the point! 🤩


It’s just that you can’t believe it’s true that balancing is designed around default. 😢

 

Let me put it this way:  You are correct that things are stacked against you when you select nightmare and insane. The dog in the gas station is working as intended. Adjust your expectations accordingly. 

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2 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

What diff are you referring to you can take down a zombie dog on on day 1 with a club? doesn't sound like nightmare speed or insane diff. Tier 1's get you geared to take on the rest of the world, if they have things your not equipped to take on your taking away from the point of your trader quests in the beginning. 

It's a "50/50" situation we're talking about here. Yes, having mines spawn in T1 POI's, remnants included, would be sketchy because a lot of new players (from what I assume at least) start doing T1 quests before they are ready to "take on the rest of the world". However, there is no magical barrier blocks entry to other higher tier POI's until you're x gamestage, so a new player, or a new character even, could easily walk into a T3 POI, make their way through a couple rooms, and then die to a sneaky landmine trap.

 

My general conclusion is this: perhaps dogs should be able to spawn in certain T1 POI's on day one (the ones that are hardcoded to spawn those vicious canines), but only if they are hardcoded not to detect you until you get relatively close to them (or you attack them), and/or the animal should be exposed so that it's impossible to miss it.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Alrighty then. To close this off, do you know if it's hardcoded for them NOT to spawn on day 1, or can they spawn anytime?

I doubt it. They could spawn on Day 1 as easily as on Day 2 I imagine. If you stay in the protected zone where you spawn you should be safe.  But the trip to the trader could include a rare encounter, sure. 
 

But at default difficulty you can also outrun it until it’s territorial AI kicks in and it begs off. Only at nightmare speeds is it a problem but hopefully a good and challenging problem that rewards players with good environmental awareness. 

Edited by Roland (see edit history)
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3 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

What diff are you referring to you can take down a zombie dog on on day 1 with a club? doesn't sound like nightmare speed or insane diff. Tier 1's get you geared to take on the rest of the world, if they have things your not equipped to take on your taking away from the point of your trader quests in the beginning. 

Surely I am talking about default settings and difficulties, that is what has to be balanced for new players. If you decide to play on harder settings that is your own choice and I don't see a reason to complain about more difficult times when that is what you have set on purpose.

 

Once again, a new player does not know about "tier 1" POIs. A new player goes into whatever building that attracts him most. Can be a tier 1 building, can also be the Bear Den, a tier 5 shotgun messiah or whatever. Moreover, I don't think it is a bad thing for new players to die here and there to predators, mines etc. This struggle and trying to solve the situation is what keeps a game interesting. Especially a survival game.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

It's a "50/50" situation we're talking about here. Yes, having mines spawn in T1 POI's, remnants included, would be sketchy because a lot of new players (from what I assume at least) start doing T1 quests before they are ready to "take on the rest of the world". However, there is no magical barrier blocks entry to other higher tier POI's until you're x gamestage, so a new player, or a new character even, could easily walk into a T3 POI, make their way through a couple rooms, and then die to a sneaky landmine trap.

 

My general conclusion is this: perhaps dogs should be able to spawn in certain T1 POI's on day one (the ones that are hardcoded to spawn those vicious canines), but only if they are hardcoded not to detect you until you get relatively close to them (or you attack them), and/or the animal should be exposed so that it's impossible to miss it.

Like that?

253321359_thumbnail.thumb.png.e1f6dc4e53c10f5cfa350d66a337c386.png

Sorry was already a thumb nail

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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Just now, STyK_ said:

Like that?

253321359_thumbnail.thumb.png.e1f6dc4e53c10f5cfa350d66a337c386.png

Yes, just like that. Now, if the dog immediately saw you and came after you, then there would be a problem there, yes. I'm pretty sure that particular dog spawn has it be as blind as a rhino and as deaf as a caterpillar though, so unless you provoke it, you should be able to just close the door and move onto another POI.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, PoloPoPo said:

Moreover, I don't think it is a bad thing for new players to die here and there to predators, mines etc. This struggle and trying to solve the situation is what keeps a game interesting. Especially a survival game.

Exactly!  We all died as brand new players and kept at it because of how great the game was. 
 

And yet, as soon as some people get 1000 hrs in, suddenly they think all the new players are going to be unlike how they were and rage quit and uninstall unlike what they did.
 

We aren’t a special breed. Trust the allure of the game. Let the newbies struggle and die a few times and learn. Most will push through to addiction levels just exactly the same as we did. 

Edited by Roland (see edit history)

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1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

Yes, just like that. Now, if the dog immediately saw you and came after you, then there would be a problem there, yes. I'm pretty sure that particular dog spawn has it be as blind as a rhino and as deaf as a caterpillar though, so unless you provoke it, you should be able to just close the door and move onto another POI.

but you don't want to cause its a tier 1, I already have skip poi's for the biker, not so far this playthough but the last.

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1 minute ago, STyK_ said:

but you don't want to cause its a tier 1, I already have skip poi's for the biker, not so far this playthough but the last.

Not directly related to your post above, but the construction site with the zombie bear spawn? Unless that's been changed, that's also a T1 POI.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Not directly related to your post above, but the construction site with the zombie bear spawn? Unless that's been changed, that's also a T1 POI.

That can be contain fairly easily though, he's already in a concrete pit, just set him off get out and don't use pipe bombs or he'll glitch out. If the dog was stuck in a service bay it would be equivalent. I had to alter the poi to make it the same.

Edit: Which wasn't part of the plan, I shot him though the window then sprinted around the building to the low roof and chopped up the stacked wood that got me there thinking the dog would brake out though the door. unfortunately pathing took him straight into the wall.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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1 minute ago, STyK_ said:

That can be contain fairly easily though, he's already in a concrete pit, just set him off get out and don't use pipe bombs or he'll glitch out. If the dog was stuck in a service bay it would be equivalent. I had to alter the poi to make it the same.

Not arguing, just saying: taking on a zombie bear is way more difficult than taking on one zombie dog. I know because I just died to one, even with a full clip of 7.62 ammo from a yellow AK to the face. Not complaining (other than maybe said POI should be moved to T2 quest status, if it hasn't been already, but it's apples and oranges here.

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Posted (edited)

@Rolandhey you try to take him without the 'magic shoes and or jacket or drink' early game on insane nightmare, those don't even exist in my world.

If you nerd poll to a height he can't reach on the side of a wall and shoot him I'll be disappointed.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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Just now, STyK_ said:

@Rolandhey you try to take him without the 'magic shoes and or jacket or drink' early game

Absolutely. On default you can take a zombie dog with a fiber shirt and pants combo and a club. You might get an infection or broken arm but you’ll live. 
 

On default unencumbered you can outrun a wolf barefoot. Also a wolf often runs away once injured so you don’t even have to kill it. 
 

 

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Oh I meant the biker. And yeah when your talking about to easy to even bother playing of course it can be done.

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2 minutes ago, Roland said:

Absolutely. On default you can take a zombie dog with a fiber shirt and pants combo and a club. You might get an infection or broken arm but you’ll live. 
 

On default unencumbered you can outrun a wolf barefoot. Also a wolf often runs away once injured so you don’t even have to kill it. 
 

 

Can confirm; I raided a ranger station on day 1, which is still my main bus. I decapitated the first dog with my blunderbuss, but I had to deal with the other dog with a club. Sure I was down to 15 health and I had an infection and a Deep Laceration, and I had to loot until 2 in the morning to find a sewing kit, but I lived.

*main base

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

When using a wrench against a radiator, it doesn't initiate the wrenching animation. I swear this used to be a thing in previous A19 patches, but can anyone confirm? I swear I'm going mad these days.

 

Yeah, it wacks the radiator like a club, but I get the brass radiator in the end.

Edited by Aldranon
many misspellings (see edit history)

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