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3 hours ago, Xtrakicking said:

Here's the thing. I'm not saying creators can't do whatever they want, I'm saying that they must have an understanding of their own product and genre, and build elements upon it that belong to the world they've constructed, otherwise it will collapse on itself. The consequences of adding elements to your creation that feel out of place, or feel like they belong to an entirely different world/genre, is that the consumers will be confused as to what exactly it is they're playing/watching/reading, and the experience will probably be overall less enjoyable. Let's take Twilight, as an example. Can you make it so the vampires in your novel sparkle in the sun? Of course you can. Will some people like that? Of course some will. Was it then positively received? Nope. Not at all. Because some of the decisions they took for their story just didn't work.

 

Tl;dr: Being able to do whatever you want doesn't mean everything you do will work.

 

That being said, this is just a general opinion. When it comes to zombies being able to dig, I've got no problem with that. It doesn't feel out of place, and it fixes issues like players hiding away from hordes inside a 2x1 hole in the ground.

Did some vampire purists dislike it? Yes. Did it stop the film from being a huge success? No. Would it have made more money had they stuck to traditional vampires burning up in the sun fanged vampires? No, I don't think it would have.

They wanted to portray a story where the vampires could pass off as teenagers, going to school (during the day) and to do that they had to throw out the traditional burn in the sun stuff. This allowed them to make a teen love story with drama, and create an interesting new vampire that the audience WANTED to learn about. Oh hmmm this guy is a daywalker, interesting... I wonder what else he can do. Sometimes you have to change the lore to make things interesting. Elder scrolls doesn't have a pure medieval fantasy theme, but it is close enough I'll take it. I don't care for morrowind or anything about it, the mushroom houses and bugs are stupid to me. But go to cyrodiil or Skyrim and it seems perfect to me.

Just like special infected zombies might be smarter, to help us create an interesting story for players to talk about, how they overcame special infected X and how they deal with SI Y and Z. We can rationalize the radiation kept the infection from rotting their brains as much since they might be more mutated obviously they got radiated.

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These quotes need to be permanently added to an FAQ. 

Regarding Gameplay Changes:

24 minutes ago, madmole said:

Yeah we took away their ability to just fart around and survive so they are mad. Or we fixed their favorite exploit. They game needs to be a constant struggle, with the player getting a few wins here and there, but struggle is what makes it feel worth while when you do survive.

 

Regarding Zombies/Enemies Behavior and Design: 

14 minutes ago, madmole said:

At the end of the day it is whatever we want it to be to make the game fun and challenging. Fiction is fiction and the possibilities are endless.

 

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7 hours ago, DaVegaNL said:

Some people just really, really, really love stone!
Don't know who, though.

Don`t look at me like that.

 

*putting some gathered stones from current hiking trip on the ground and running away*

 

 

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1 hour ago, Xtrakicking said:

Sorry! That was my mistake. I meant everyone. I tried editing it, but it was too late 😛

 

Yeah, but I would argue not at the cost of ruining the world they've already constructed. This is the worst case scenario, obviously, but it can still happen. I'm kind of stressed with what exactly the new special zombies will be like for this reason, to be honest. Let's just hope it's good.

 

And yes, not everyone will be happy, but that doesn't mean that what they add should be out of place. 

Lots of subjectivity there.  How much innovation/creativity is too little or too much?  Ultimately it is a business and sales figures for the game and number of concurrent players are some of the indicators they are using to determine if they are heading in the right direction.

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My wife watching Twilight hundreds of times inspired in me disgust and despised for that story. 

 

Shame on you for dredging up memories!

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44 minutes ago, madmole said:

Did some vampire purists dislike it? Yes. Did it stop the film from being a huge success? No. Would it have made more money had they stuck to traditional vampires burning up in the sun fanged vampires? No, I don't think it would have.

They wanted to portray a story where the vampires could pass off as teenagers, going to school (during the day) and to do that they had to throw out the traditional burn in the sun stuff. This allowed them to make a teen love story with drama, and create an interesting new vampire that the audience WANTED to learn about. Oh hmmm this guy is a daywalker, interesting... I wonder what else he can do. Sometimes you have to change the lore to make things interesting. Elder scrolls doesn't have a pure medieval fantasy theme, but it is close enough I'll take it. I don't care for morrowind or anything about it, the mushroom houses and bugs are stupid to me. But go to cyrodiil or Skyrim and it seems perfect to me.

Just like special infected zombies might be smarter, to help us create an interesting story for players to talk about, how they overcame special infected X and how they deal with SI Y and Z. We can rationalize the radiation kept the infection from rotting their brains as much since they might be more mutated obviously they got radiated.

I like the film Patient Zero. The zombies in that film are scary. I like the idea of having semi smart zombies, it makes you have to think more about, well... everything.

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1 hour ago, Xtrakicking said:

I’m kind of stressed with what exactly the new special zombies will be like for this reason, to be honest. Let's just hope it's good.

Well the new telemarketer zombie is coming along nicely. When it gets close to your base it will shout out offers to take surveys, change your billing plan, or update your insurance. There’s even a boss type that attempts to steal your identity by phishing for account numbers and directing you to fake websites. We even got voice actors with strong ethnic hard-to-understand accents for realism. 
 

The upside is that they seem to be the most satisfying kills ever experienced in the game....

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Here's a good question that probably is answered:

 

why the hell can't we daisy chain battery banks. In a a19 b173 game, the battery banks can WIRE UP like a daisy chain, but one battery bank is maxed it wont pull power from the next one in line.. it seems like its there since we can wire it so, or am i doing something wrong? same for solar, it should all be daisy chain able, at least for the battery bank and solar panel. Solar panel @ 180 maxed out then it should pull from aux power if needed.. seems simple enough yes? when you have 30 turrets its messy making multiple things when it can be consolidated so easily

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1 hour ago, madmole said:

Elder scrolls doesn't have a pure medieval fantasy theme, but it is close enough I'll take it. I don't care for morrowind or anything about it, the mushroom houses and bugs are stupid to me. But go to cyrodiil or Skyrim and it seems perfect to me.
 

Probably Off Topic :

Spoiler

Morrowind was good for the time. Having played Arena a bit, Daggerfall a bit, and all the rest to the fullest, I can say that Morrowind, objectively speaking is superior in content than Oblivion but so much less in technology that it hasn't aged well. Still, it is still superior in story and therefore sometimes in atmosphere if you LIKE to read, which we, as players should NOT.

 

Those who say Oblivion was better than Skyrim need a head check. Oblivion was an "emotional first", but nothing else. It was done in 6 months and therefore is full of repetitiveness and boredom. The only thing that is arguably superior in that title is the Shivering Isles DLC and the Dark Brotherhood questline. I hate it when companies call it a day without fleshing out the product to the extent of their vision. Fact that makes 7dtd the number 1 played on my steam list.

 

Quote

Just like special infected zombies might be smarter, to help us create an interesting story for players to talk about, how they overcame special infected X and how they deal with SI Y and Z. We can rationalize the radiation kept the infection from rotting their brains as much since they might be more mutated obviously they got radiated.

Designs are eventually good with the right mindset, and in fiction it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you do it with the 3 fs. Fine, Fun and Fast LOL.

Having stated all that, Rick said once that he would be very dissapointed if 7 days to die GOLD took 3 years to complete. Well, we certainly WOULDN'T, because in this case time would mean better fleshed out systems that will serve as a precedent for a faster 7dtd2 development roadmap. The only problem for a sequel is one of 3d models: quite a lot of them will have to be scrapped from title to title.

 

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51 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Lots of subjectivity there.  How much innovation/creativity is too little or too much?  Ultimately it is a business and sales figures for the game and number of concurrent players are some of the indicators they are using to determine if they are heading in the right direction.

I couldn't tell you. All I can tell you is that there is a point where certain additions can get out of hand.

 

1 hour ago, madmole said:

Did some vampire purists dislike it? Yes. Did it stop the film from being a huge success? No. Would it have made more money had they stuck to traditional vampires burning up in the sun fanged vampires? No, I don't think it would have.

Just because something was successful doesn't mean it was good. Twilight is just an example of that. You can be successful AND good at the same time, why should you settle for Twilight's level of quality?

 

1 hour ago, madmole said:

Just like special infected zombies might be smarter, to help us create an interesting story for players to talk about, how they overcame special infected X and how they deal with SI Y and Z. We can rationalize the radiation kept the infection from rotting their brains as much since they might be more mutated obviously they got radiated.

I'm just going to say that you can do whatever you want as long as you manage to settle your ideas of what you want the game to be. When the game was announced on kickstarter, it seemed like it was definitely leaning towards a classic zombie apocalypse game. Now I'm just concerned it's going to turn into a weird blend between that and Killing Floor 2.

 

We'll see, I guess.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Xtrakicking said:

 

Just because something was successful doesn't mean it was good. Twilight is just an example of that. You can be successful AND good at the same time, why should you settle for Twilight's level of quality?

This is just wrong.

 

Successful could be determined as a fact by aggregate sales and users/viewers   "Good" is a subjective individual interpretation.

 

Twilight is obviously "Good" to many people - and they made it successful.  Its just not good to you..... or me.

 

None of us individually can determine what is good and expect it to be gospel for everyone.   The most we can do is play a very tiny role in its success or failure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SnowDog1942 (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, madmole said:


Just like special infected zombies might be smarter, to help us create an interesting story for players to talk about, how they overcame special infected X and how they deal with SI Y and Z. We can rationalize the radiation kept the infection from rotting their brains as much since they might be more mutated obviously they got radiated.

I like this idea but i don't think all zombies should be "Brain radiation rot"

 

i think some zombies could have mutations! Like Long claws, Poisonous Gas, quadrupedal Movement, Rage, ETC!

 

and then some that are "special" because of their Job! like the demolisher! 

 

 

also maybe a Zombie that feeds on Blood on both the Living and the Dead! *Cough COUGH Feeder Cough cough*

Edited by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

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1 minute ago, SnowDog1942 said:

This is just wrong.

 

Successful could be determined as a fact by aggregate sales and users/viewers   "Good" is a subjective individual interpretation.

 

Twilight is obviously"Good" to many people - and they made it successful.  Its just not good to you..... or me.

 

Each of us individually,  can't determine what is good and expect it to be gospel for everyone.   The most we can do is play a very tiny role its success or failure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll change the phrase then.

 

Just because something was successful doesn't mean it was well received.

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2 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

I like this idea but i don't think all zombies should be "Brain radiation rot"

 

i think some zombies could have mutations! Like Long claws, Poisonous Gas, quadrupedal Movement, Rage, ETC!

 

and then some that are "special" because of their Job! like the demolisher! 

... and DaVegaNL

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It's like in the one book i was reading on my kobo, when a zombie first turns it is completely dumb, but can see heat almost as if it sees infrared, once they bit into someone they saw the heat leaving the body into themselves, this in turn caused the zombie to regain intellect, once they became "human" again of they fed more they would become faster,stronger and smarter than they were in life, it was an interesting book with the point of view being from survivors and zombies.  That was where i got my idea for zombies attacking heat generating sources such as electricity since it gives off their own heat signature, could make it more challenging and fun.

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Posted (edited)

So there I was, with my master plan:

1) Push Strength until 3 in shotgun and club

2) Push Int (with nerd glasses) until I can build two crucibles, one gyro and one motorcycle.

3) Do Grampa's mind wipe sauce (whatever its called)

4 Never put a point in Int for rest of game!

 

Win right?  Nope!

I decided, before deleting Intelligence, to play with my tier 5 sledge turret on horde night, as I could now place it at the opening at the perimeter wall and still have it active from were I fight from.

...

They didn't stand a chance!  I used a bit more than 200 Magnum rounds and less than 20 pipe bombs with about a third of the zombies rad, lots of cops and one Demolisher.

That sledge turret was slamming them against the wall repeatedly, making solo kills, maybe a third of all the kills, going (edit) by the loot bags I found around it.

 

NOW I WANT TWO TURRETS ACTIVE!  😆

Edited by Aldranon (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Xtrakicking said:

I couldn't tell you. All I can tell you is that there is a point where certain additions can get out of hand.

 

Just because something was successful doesn't mean it was good. Twilight is just an example of that. You can be successful AND good at the same time, why should you settle for Twilight's level of quality?

 

I'm just going to say that you can do whatever you want as long as you manage to settle your ideas of what you want the game to be. When the game was announced on kickstarter, it seemed like it was definitely leaning towards a classic zombie apocalypse game. Now I'm just concerned it's going to turn into a weird blend between that and Killing Floor 2.

 

We'll see, I guess.

Like snowdog said, Twilight was good, just not to you or him. I hated it from a traditional lore stand point, but enjoyed the conflicts between vampires and werewolves, Elders having strict rules, each vampire having a possible special gift were all very appealing elements. It had the bones to be excellent but there was cringe factor to swallow but in between that there was some good stuff. Considering how rare good vampire movie content is, I'll take it despite its shortcomings. True blood was fantastic for about 3-4 seasons and then decayed into strange crap. The werewolves vs vampires was interesting, throw in fairies and witches and shapeshifters and it gets a little too crazy to where it feels diluted.

I think it is important for TFP to stay somewhat grounded in traditional zombie lore. I have the special infected designs done and hopefully they aren't too far out there for players to buy into the idea. There are several probably not going into production that might have raised some eyebrows of the immersion/purists but it is better to have more than you need than not enough.

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2 hours ago, fragtzack said:

My wife watching Twilight hundreds of times inspired in me disgust and despised for that story. 

 

Shame on you for dredging up memories!

 

She just liked Kellen Lutz's abs, don't worry about the story.

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1 hour ago, Xtrakicking said:

I'll change the phrase then.

 

Just because something was successful doesn't mean it was well received.

It was though. My GF's kids were nuts over it and stood in line for hours to see it on opening night, then bought all the movies once all of them came out. Critics and older audiences maybe not as much. At the end of the day you have to do something different to get noticed. If all we had was boring walkers that weren't a challenge I don't think the game would trigger any emotions, and emotions are what build forever franchises.

 

Re Oblivion: Oblivion was a great game. Not flawless but a huge open world rich with exploration and interesting characters and quests. I'd be proud AF to have 10% of that quest content in 7 Days. We're not going to be a big RPG though, our team is too small.

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18 hours ago, Daruma said:

 

And I know that is an article from 2016, but seeing as the game is still in alpha and has been since 2013, I think it should have some bearing.

 

 

Sorry but no. Any comment from 2016 is meaningless now. It's not even remote;y the same game.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, madmole said:

Like snowdog said, Twilight was good, just not to you or him. I hated it from a traditional lore stand point, but enjoyed the conflicts between vampires and werewolves, Elders having strict rules, each vampire having a possible special gift were all very appealing elements. It had the bones to be excellent but there was cringe factor to swallow but in between that there was some good stuff. Considering how rare good vampire movie content is, I'll take it despite its shortcomings. True blood was fantastic for about 3-4 seasons and then decayed into strange crap. The werewolves vs vampires was interesting, throw in fairies and witches and shapeshifters and it gets a little too crazy to where it feels diluted.

I think it is important for TFP to stay somewhat grounded in traditional zombie lore. I have the special infected designs done and hopefully they aren't too far out there for players to buy into the idea. There are several probably not going into production that might have raised some eyebrows of the immersion/purists but it is better to have more than you need than not enough.

Sounds super exciting.  I know you mentioned a zombie tank and really curious to see your take on it.  The most memorable zombie tank for me in recent memory is the l4d zombie tank.

 

Tank-artwork.gif

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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16 hours ago, Roland said:

Except it wasn’t a sudden addition. Digging zombies was in the game from the start. It was gone for a few alphas and then returned.  Digging zombies have been in more alphas since Kickstarter than they haven’t been. 
 

Google it!

Lol Roland. Bringing up facts isn't fair!

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5 minutes ago, madmole said:

Like snowdog said, Twilight was good, just not to you or him. I hated it from a traditional lore stand point, but enjoyed the conflicts between vampires and werewolves, Elders having strict rules, each vampire having a possible special gift were all very appealing elements. It had the bones to be excellent but there was cringe factor to swallow but in between that there was some good stuff. Considering how rare good vampire movie content is, I'll take it despite its shortcomings. True blood was fantastic for about 3-4 seasons and then decayed into strange crap. The werewolves vs vampires was interesting, throw in fairies and witches and shapeshifters and it gets a little too crazy to where it feels diluted.

Yeah, I won't deny there were interesting ideas in there, I'm just saying there's a reason why it was so negatively received, and there's a reason why you say you had to swallow cringe worthy scenes.

 

6 minutes ago, madmole said:

I think it is important for TFP to stay somewhat grounded in traditional zombie lore. I have the special infected designs done and hopefully they aren't too far out there for players to buy into the idea. There are several probably not going into production that might have raised some eyebrows of the immersion/purists but it is better to have more than you need than not enough.

Agreed. Thanks for the response. Let's hope we get a glimpse of those new designs soon.

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9 minutes ago, madmole said:

It was though. My GF's kids were nuts over it and stood in line for hours to see it on opening night, then bought all the movies once all of them came out. Critics and older audiences maybe not as much. At the end of the day you have to do something different to get noticed. If all we had was boring walkers that weren't a challenge I don't think the game would trigger any emotions, and emotions are what build forever franchises.

 

Re Oblivion: Oblivion was a great game. Not flawless but a huge open world rich with exploration and interesting characters and quests. I'd be proud AF to have 10% of that quest content in 7 Days. We're not going to be a big RPG though, our team is too small.

Honestly, I didn't even intend to get into a Twilight debate. It was just an example of many other movies that were successful, yet negatively received (another example: Star Wars prequels); but anyways, like I said, Twilight's general response was negative. Some people liked it, yes, but it was endlessly mocked and ridiculed.

 

In regards to this game: It is considered one of the best survivals to date, and there's no other zombie game like it. Even back in A1, when you only had "boring walkers", that was the general consensus of this game. Obviously, the fact that there are more things than that is cool, but my point is that the game will still be awesome even if we don't have convoluted and bizarre enemies left and right.

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