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madmole

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I still do not really like how many parts it requires to make a tool or weapon when they are usually already gated by a recipe you have to find and steel. 

 

Like on my one world I am like over level 30 and have 8 intel and 4 in robotics and I can not even make a junk sledge yet, lel.  I could do 5 parts, but not 15 or whatever it costs yet, heh.  RNG ftw.  I have 3 traders now so I guess it should not be much longer. 

 

Not really a big deal though.  The build is really good, I just make sure I start off specializing in something that does not require RNG.

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3 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

Its what I'd do IRL, when I think they mite have breached that close to my ladder its time to cut it loose. I asked for a roll up ladder once upon a time and the idea was shot down so I found my own way, with no little effort if you notice that whole wall had to get moved back one block. I overacted though, looking at it later they actually didn't even get in, that spider zed was just sticking though the wall cause he could climb the ramp. I guess he can't fit though a one block opening. I should have just healed and went to the next room and will do next time once those window are converted to the bar hatch design.

 

Pistol would work better if I could find a good one or the parts but 25% loot is tough. Imaging that setup for fortitude build!

I was confused why you didn't have a repair tool on your belt, you could just repair stuff and stay put.

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22 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Hi MM,

 

Thanks for the round tower design, I figured since everyone was doing castles I should at least start to try and make one too and see what happens.  I did run into a blending issue with this tower design and wood ramp blocks (roof) but it still came out okay.  I used paint so the blocks that didn't quite fit together aren't so obvious from a distance.  See image below. I highlighted red the voxel space where I couldnt find a block that  would blend well into the tower.

 

 

A20.0_2020-08-02_10-51-15.jpg

Just roleplay the parts of the castle that cannot blend together. I tell myself it's the part of the castle that has decayed. All castle do haha.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Toban said:

Just roleplay the parts of the castle that cannot blend together. I tell myself it's the part of the castle that has decayed. All castle do haha.

Or really nice shelves for invisible gnomes 🤔🤪

Edited by Laynie
I'm stupid :P I made a mess here... oh well.... (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, madmole said:

I was confused why you didn't have a repair tool on your belt, you could just repair stuff and stay put.

part of my cheese rules, who builds and repairs in fight! I'm not a fortnite fan obviously. More suspense my way. It is a little scary after going and repairing and see how damaged the block got though and I didn't see it happening. Life could be easier but where is the fun in that.

 

Edit: I hope you guys were able to do something with that bug I noticed, I wasted alot of ammo confirming something wasn't right.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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10 hours ago, EggsAisle said:

I was doing some quests/looting today, largely in the hopes of obtaining some robotics parts (which are by the way almost impossible to find compared to any other parts, not sure if that's intentional.) In the process, I wondered if the questing system might be fleshed out in such a way to tame the RNG just a touch. Something like:

 

30% (number is arbitrary) of quests have a more focused reward selection. It's not necessarily visible to the player, but the trader dialogue can append a little hint: "Go and beat up the zeds at house_modular_whatever. Come back when you're done and you can pick an old weapon I've got lying around in the back." Low-level quests might give you a choice between a spear and a pipe shotgun, higher-level quests might let you pick a sniper rifle or a steel sledgehammer. 

 

You could do this for weapons, tools, seeds, books, electrical stuff, medicine, recipes, construction stuff... you could even align it with the trader's specialty. And this focused reward system wouldn't necessarily apply to all quests, or even most. Maybe there's a cap of 1 per trader per day. But I feel like it could lead to some interesting choices, like "Do I take this quest that's just 300m away and hope for a good reward from the generic table, or do the quest that's 1.4km away but will give me a recipe?" And there's no guarantee that the recipes offered are new/unread, so unlucky is still unlucky. 

 

Thoughts?

Robotic parts are plenty common, you either haven't played long enough or you have got bad RNG. We already have something similar, the perk that gives you additional choices for rewards. I don't like rewards being specialized because there are no decent high end medical items so Jen would become the useless trader to do quests for, and everyone would flock to Hugh for his guns.

The plan is to game stage the rewards to stay ahead of loot by a few levels so the rewards are better than what you could find, but not game ending, until game end.

7 hours ago, Gazz said:

Correct. The right hand has a chainsaw attached.

 

 

You guys do realise that this is getting into the territory of weird and hard to enforce rules, right?

There is no need for a solution because there is no problem.

Yeah the solution is mod it, we provide what is needed to survive, and then some but we have no desire to kitchen sink the whole system for the 2% vanity fort guys. Every feature no matter how small has a huge ripple effect of time, bugs and performance issues, so no for the 8,000th time.

 

5 hours ago, Noctoras said:

I understand your point, but it is a bit of a stretch, espacially point one. 

If "most players" ust it is a criteria, you could just as well get rid of 75% of the weapons or more :=)

 

Which is why gamesparks paints the true picture, blanket statements like this with zero facts to support wild claims has zero impact now, as it should.

3 hours ago, Jay_ombie said:

Maybe they fine tuning the last Build to release it out really soon, if all well then transcends to Stable Friday.... (maybe)    :)

There is another exp coming for sure. If that tests well it can become stable.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Toban said:

Just roleplay the parts of the castle that cannot blend together. I tell myself it's the part of the castle that has decayed. All castle do haha.

I agree.  There are definitely ways to work around it or through it...

 

Sometimes half the fun/challenge is finding a way to make it work.  Makes it feel more rewarding. 😁

 

Edit: I think I have an idea now lol...

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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18 minutes ago, pregnable said:

I still do not really like how many parts it requires to make a tool or weapon when they are usually already gated by a recipe you have to find and steel. 

 

Like on my one world I am like over level 30 and have 8 intel and 4 in robotics and I can not even make a junk sledge yet, lel.  I could do 5 parts, but not 15 or whatever it costs yet, heh.  RNG ftw.  I have 3 traders now so I guess it should not be much longer. 

 

Not really a big deal though.  The build is really good, I just make sure I start off specializing in something that does not require RNG.

Everything requires RNG though. You should be swimming in parts if you put the work in. Are you level 30 because you are mining and building? Or level 30 because you are shooting and looting? Obviously the looter shooter will have way more parts than the miner/builder.

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Posted (edited)

@madmole Any plans for fixing the jittery ADS of weapons? For example the ak goes forward and back with a red dot sight installed.

Edited by RhinoW
sent it by mistake (see edit history)

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9 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I agree.  There are definitely ways to work around it or through it...

 

Sometimes half the fun/challenge is finding a way to make it work.  Makes it feel more rewarding. 😁

 

Edit: I think I have an idea now lol...

Indeed. Finding a way around it is part of the fun.

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21 minutes ago, madmole said:

Yeah the solution is mod it, we provide what is needed to survive, and then some but we have no desire to kitchen sink the whole system for the 2% vanity fort guys.

Is that 2% from the data you've acquired so far? I would have expected the number of builders to be much higher than that.

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Question.

 

A while back there were some comments about building/adjusting things for a 30-50 hour game. And recently meganoth mentioned similar hours.

 

Wondering if those hours had general targets as to player progression? Level x, generally wielding Tier x Qual x for their main weapon, etc.

 

Reason I'm asking is I've passed 35 hours (90min days), as a miner/builder, lvl 31, no Combat Perks, sporting a qual 1 Ak(bought) & Pistol(toilet). I know my progression was slowed by my own choices, curious what 'normal' progrssion might be.

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3 minutes ago, Gromit said:

Is that 2% from the data you've acquired so far? I would have expected the number of builders to be much higher than that.

I'd be really curious to see some of the data they've managed to gather so far. Not to pick on TFP but just out of general interest.

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1 minute ago, Nugetti said:

I'd be really curious to see some of the data they've managed to gather so far. Not to pick on TFP but just out of general interest.

When we play on the family server, only my hubby likes to build. We are 4 players normally. I know that doesn't answer your question, but for us, its 1 in 4. Me my kid and brother in law like different things too. Me and my kid (not a child) like killing zeds, my brother in law farms like it's his job and my hubby build huge buildings. When we played with 8 ppl on the server, my hubby was still the only builder.

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13 minutes ago, madmole said:

Robotic parts are plenty common, you either haven't played long enough or you have got bad RNG. We already have something similar, the perk that gives you additional choices for rewards. I don't like rewards being specialized because there are no decent high end medical items so Jen would become the useless trader to do quests for, and everyone would flock to Hugh for his guns.

The plan is to game stage the rewards to stay ahead of loot by a few levels so the rewards are better than what you could find, but not game ending, until game end.

 

Hey, thanks for hearing me out! I don't know too many game designers willing to chat with forum-goers, so I appreciate it.

 

My robotics shortage could be rough RNG, I just noticed it because I have 15-20 for just about every other weapon, and like 50+ military armor parts. 

 

I see what you mean about Jen. Maybe unshackle the rewards from the trader's specialty, so Jen could give gun quests? But if that's not the direction you have in mind, I understand that too. Thanks!

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8 minutes ago, Nugetti said:

I'd be really curious to see some of the data they've managed to gather so far. Not to pick on TFP but just out of general interest.

Yeah, I'd be interested as well.

 

Modding doesn't look very complicated for the features I want so I'll likely just mod in the building features I want.

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49 minutes ago, Nugetti said:

I'd be really curious to see some of the data they've managed to gather so far. Not to pick on TFP but just out of general interest.

I'm interested in the data but leery of how some will cherry pick and try to twist it to "make their point". I think it'd be best if TPF chose to keep the info close to chest.

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2 hours ago, madmole said:

There is no need for a sticky, if people like it, and talk about it, it will stick itself.

Sorry but how am I supposed to react to such argument? No topic stays constantly on top, no matter how popular it is. Then new topic emerges, but it is already without prior builds. Purpose of sticky is to have all of it at one place. There is already sticky topic for seeds, why not builds? 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, madmole said:

The plan is to game stage the rewards to stay ahead of loot by a few levels so the rewards are better than what you could find, but not game ending, until game end.

Will you be setting up each tier of quests to have a minimal tier of rewards? This would make there be an incentive to challenge yourself with higher tier quests early instead of just grinding out low tier quests as long as you can.

Edited by Tmodloader (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Gromit said:

Is that 2% from the data you've acquired so far? I would have expected the number of builders to be much higher than that.

We're not considering any data from experimental, since it is mostly hardcore players.

1 hour ago, FileMachete said:

Question.

 

A while back there were some comments about building/adjusting things for a 30-50 hour game. And recently meganoth mentioned similar hours.

 

Wondering if those hours had general targets as to player progression? Level x, generally wielding Tier x Qual x for their main weapon, etc.

 

Reason I'm asking is I've passed 35 hours (90min days), as a miner/builder, lvl 31, no Combat Perks, sporting a qual 1 Ak(bought) & Pistol(toilet). I know my progression was slowed by my own choices, curious what 'normal' progrssion might be.

I don't think there can be a normal. Actually you gain tons of experience mining/upgrading, so I don't really see that as slowing things down much.

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1 hour ago, madmole said:

Everything requires RNG though. You should be swimming in parts if you put the work in. Are you level 30 because you are mining and building? Or level 30 because you are shooting and looting? Obviously the looter shooter will have way more parts than the miner/builder.

Well I meant to mention that.  I think I am on day 12 or 13... the way I play I usually power level, so maybe the balance is right. 

 

Nah, you can kinda bypass RNG with certain builds. 

 

That build I start strength and get miner and motherload asap, and I use the stone axe as melee.  I find the trader and do quests if they are not stupid far away and then have a cobblestone base good enough for the 7 day horde before the start of day 2. 

 

Then I make a blunderbuss and iron fire axe(for a melee weapon, when I can) and start questing during the day and building and digging at night. 

 

I also will take points in intel for cement mixer and forge and start spamming concrete asap. 

251570_screenshots_20200726033436_1.jpg

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Alright. I had to say something at this point. 

 

I game on PC and console. I own and enjoy the game on console. I will not be purchasing it on PC until TFP becomes a little more responsive to the community that supports their work.

 

To create a game that is obviously centered around building and then lambast people who enjoy that aspect of the game is a little childish. I find the "2% vanity builder" stat to be highly suspect. I mean, c'mon - the very first description of the game I read, written by TFP, described it as a "voxel based zombie survival game." It really sounds like your feelings are a bit hurt over the fact your user base isn't playing the game exactly as you would like them to. Are you developing a game for others to enjoy, or for yourself to enjoy vicariously by dictating play styles that you don't (for some strange reason) agree with?

 

I think you're alienating a good portion of your fans at this point. Its a little ironic criticizing that style of play with a handle like 'madmole'. And to push the responsibility off on modders to "fix" what is obviously shortcomings in the core game itself is a little ridiculous. 

 

As I said - I love the game. I'd love to see it get to a place on PC where I could purchase and enjoy it for what I wanted it to be and what it was initially described as. Its just not there unfortunately. As I heard posted on a separate forum...if I wanted a standard FPS zombie game where the focus was on zombie hunting and looting, I have many other, more polished options. 

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1 hour ago, EggsAisle said:

 

Hey, thanks for hearing me out! I don't know too many game designers willing to chat with forum-goers, so I appreciate it.

 

My robotics shortage could be rough RNG, I just noticed it because I have 15-20 for just about every other weapon, and like 50+ military armor parts. 

 

I see what you mean about Jen. Maybe unshackle the rewards from the trader's specialty, so Jen could give gun quests? But if that's not the direction you have in mind, I understand that too. Thanks!

They send you to whatever POIs are near. THe reward groups are identical per trader.

43 minutes ago, Onarr said:

Sorry but how am I supposed to react to such argument? No topic stays constantly on top, no matter how popular it is. Then new topic emerges, but it is already without prior builds. Purpose of sticky is to have all of it at one place. There is already sticky topic for seeds, why not builds? 

We don't have time to decide what is stick worthy or not. If it is important to you book mark it. Same thing as a sticky without us having to manage it.

44 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

Will you be setting up each tier of quests to have a minimal tier of rewards? This would make there be an incentive to challenge yourself with higher tier quests early instead of just grinding out low tier quests as long as you can.

You will have to graduate to the next tier like now, but when you do, you might have access to lower tiers yet instead of it being mainly current tier with some random low ones.

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The new arm looks awesome at the start... too bad you don´t see it again. Perhaps a wrist watch would be good to show that hairy arms off ^^

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7 minutes ago, Daruma said:

Alright. I had to say something at this point. 

 

I game on PC and console. I own and enjoy the game on console. I will not be purchasing it on PC until TFP becomes a little more responsive to the community that supports their work.

 

To create a game that is obviously centered around building and then lambast people who enjoy that aspect of the game is a little childish. I find the "2% vanity builder" stat to be highly suspect. I mean, c'mon - the very first description of the game I read, written by TFP, described it as a "voxel based zombie survival game." It really sounds like your feelings are a bit hurt over the fact your user base isn't playing the game exactly as you would like them to. Are you developing a game for others to enjoy, or for yourself to enjoy vicariously by dictating play styles that you don't (for some strange reason) agree with?

 

I think you're alienating a good portion of your fans at this point. Its a little ironic criticizing that style of play with a handle like 'madmole'. And to push the responsibility off on modders to "fix" what is obviously shortcomings in the core game itself is a little ridiculous. 

 

As I said - I love the game. I'd love to see it get to a place on PC where I could purchase and enjoy it for what I wanted it to be and what it was initially described as. Its just not there unfortunately. As I heard posted on a separate forum...if I wanted a standard FPS zombie game where the focus was on zombie hunting and looting, I have many other, more polished options. 

Dude I build cooler forts than 99% of the public. For the record I've tried to convince the team to make it possible to get coffee pots and more decor available, but the fact is most players just take over a POI, and they definitely don't use high polygon decorations. So I put my personal feelings as a decorative builder aside for the bigger picture that average players don't build vanity forts. A 2 second mod or CM gets you that, we are in alpha and don't have time to handle all the edge cases of letting players "have it all", as I explained the FPS would tank and 20 other problems.

It is a voxel game. We let you place voxels, not 14000 polygon coffee pots. 

We're alienating who exactly? The game has a higher review score than it has in years and sales are better than ever. Seems like we are on track if you ask me. We focused on building and crafting for years, and finally give guns a little love and not even 10% of the effort that went into building and somehow you view that as abandoning the builders? We still have great things to come to building. I like to build so its not likely we'll leave building as is, we have some great ideas to improve it, it is just a matter of somehow squeezing it on the roadmap, then bandits and other stuff gets pushed back, further, again and again. Eventually we have to save some @%$*#! for the sequel, we can't stay in alpha forever and someone is going to feel like they got screwed.

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