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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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2 minutes ago, bloodmoth13 said:

you missed 'while jumping'.

that would only affect nerd polling, meanwhile building a catwalk over a dicey trap would still be perfectly fine (so long as your not jumping!)

You missed: Pply would simply place landclaimblocks and than nerdpole.

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53 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

And yet...a lot of effort over two alphas was spent on eliminating duplicate pois on an entire map-- especially to prevent them from spawning next to each other. That's all this would be is taking it the final step of having no duplicate POI's right in proximity to each other. I agree, though, that this is probably not worth the effort. Just like Dead is Dead it is a way of playing that is easily chosen by the player if that is what they want to do.

I think the issue is getting a preview of the dungeon right before doing the quest for real. For people that have 1000s of hours and awesome memories it probably isn't a big deal. But starting a quest at a previously unexplored POI is more fun than starting one at the same POI you've already memorized. Eliminating the opportunity to do a dry run before the quest starts will make the quests better.

 

Yes, you earn the loot both times but the second time through in such close proximity to the first is more of a gimme than a wage.


Agree completely.  This isn’t really about the loot.  In fact, the amount of extra loot that is harvested is pretty negligible. The real issue is that the developer has invested time and effort to provide a unique and exciting experience and double looting only serves to cheapen or spoil that experience.  We get it that players are choosing to do it but it is now so common as to almost have become a meme.  My thought is that the developer would want to do what they could to preserve these game experiences in the spirit that they were intended.

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I don't get that whole discussion about "double looting". Where is the problem?

 

- It is a legit strategy. You have to fight the zombies twice, clear the POI twice and therefore get twice the loot. Just like you'd loot the POI on the other side of the street instead. If you think it is too boring simply don't loot before accepting the quest.

 

- There will be a point in the game where most quests will be a "looting the same POI again". T5 quests for example, there is only a little amount of T5 POIs so you have to clear the same T5 POI over and over again. No one cares about that I guess? Or when I have looted the whole city near my base and closest trader. Whenever I accept a quest from that trader he will send me to a POI I have looted already again. Who cares if I have looted that same POI 10 hours ago, 3 hours ago or 10 minutes ago? It is still the same.

 

I am only talking about Singleplayer or people playing Multiplayer in co-op mode (as a team). Don't think 7D2D is really suited to be a PvP game anyway.

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I have the solution to these two non-exsistnace problems ppl claim that exists cause the thought of someone doing something their not, irks them to no end and thus they feel cheated for it. 

We implament the “self-control” option in the games option menu. 

Leaving it off, the game plays like normal, do whatever you want, however you want, have your cake your way and eat it, enjoy it, relish it. But turn the option on and you here by declare that you will exacute self-control and practice what you preach by not doing any of the two things you fought so hard against to not be in game,  and the very moment you break your self-control, complete and instant prementant computer wipe and brick. 

Said option will be locked in when game is started with no way to undo it. 

Only way to change it is to start a new game 

Lol that’ll teach ya. 😛

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3 hours ago, jenniann said:

Does anyone that play's MP have a problem that the non host doesn't seem to get infections/abrasions etc? My husband hosts not on a server, and i have not once been infected etc but he get's them quite often when getting hit. I have been hit heaps of times and gotten nothing?


sounds like you need a man.
 

;););)

 

PM for more info.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Roland said:

You get the layout of the poi and learn where things are. This may not matter as much once you have played the game enough to remember every POI but I still find one's I've not seen before. Going through the second time is much easier and arguably cheaper resource wise. Again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is, in fact, like someone else mentioned just like two duplicate POI's spawning right next to each other.

 

And yet...a lot of effort over two alphas was spent on eliminating duplicate pois on an entire map-- especially to prevent them from spawning next to each other. That's all this would be is taking it the final step of having no duplicate POI's right in proximity to each other. I agree, though, that this is probably not worth the effort. Just like Dead is Dead it is a way of playing that is easily chosen by the player if that is what they want to do.

I think the issue is getting a preview of the dungeon right before doing the quest for real. For people that have 1000s of hours and awesome memories it probably isn't a big deal. But starting a quest at a previously unexplored POI is more fun than starting one at the same POI you've already memorized. Eliminating the opportunity to do a dry run before the quest starts will make the quests better.

 

Yes, you earn the loot both times but the second time through in such close proximity to the first is more of a gimme than a wage.

Main problem in my eyes is, that double dipping is not enjoyable, but because its effective people will do it so they get more stuff. When you have looted your city already, many people will opt to double dip the close quest instead of going 1,5 miles for another. Its easier. This combined with absolutely atrocious roads that do (not) exist between cities and lack of gameplay on the "road," it is quite understandable. I would probably not remove double dipping until the random world gen is fixed so that roads can be traveled easily and there is event system that keeps player occupied. However yes, in the end I would remove such possibility.

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5 minutes ago, Onarr said:

Main problem in my eyes is, that double dipping is not enjoyable, but because its effective people will do it so they get more stuff. When you have looted your city already, many people will opt to double dip the close quest instead of going 1,5 miles for another. Its easier. This combined with absolutely atrocious roads that do (not) exist between cities and lack of gameplay on the "road," it is quite understandable. I would probably not remove double dipping until the random world gen is fixed so that roads can be traveled easily and there is event system that keeps player occupied. However yes, in the end I would remove such possibility.

Honestly, I don't see that many problems with RWG roads.

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3 hours ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Thats a nerdpoling issue then isnt it.

 

 

Heres a very simple solution: you cannot place a frame while jumping outside your land claim zone.

 

You can still build and make a ramp to your destination, but it will be a lot more difficult.

 

Alternatively, you could have a loot stage modifier that temporarily increases depending on recent zombie kills. Say, each zombie killed within the last 5 min or so increases your loot stage by a certain amount up to a cap. Killing another zombie refreshes it, this way you have to kill a minimum number of zombies to get the best loot and nerdpolling will give you @%$*#! loot.

Essentially this ties the challenge to the reward, if you cant do the challenge and go straight to the reward, you WILL be disappointed.

 

Personally I see nerpolling as a problem. If it was removed I would be happy. That is, ladders are the way to get to high places innit? 

4 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Honestly, I don't see that many problems with RWG roads.

Are  you playing nitrogen or default maps?

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Onarr said:
34 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Honestly, I don't see that many problems with RWG roads.

Are  you playing nitrogen or default maps?

Default of course.

 

I don't say roads are perfect, but far from unrealistic or broken or "missing".

The problem is that RWG is still random, so what I get with one seed could be totally different when I change seed.

Edited by Jost Amman (see edit history)

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36 minutes ago, Onarr said:

 

Are  you playing nitrogen or default maps?

god god if anyone reading this answered default. for your own sanity switch to nitrogen.  miles better in every way i can think of. fun pimps RWG is an embarasment

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4 minutes ago, Zombizie said:

god god if anyone reading this answered default. for your own sanity switch to nitrogen.  miles better in every way i can think of. fun pimps RWG is an embarasment

Both have pros and cons. Neither is the end all be all. 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Kosmic Kerman said:

Both have pros and cons. Neither is the end all be all. 

what are the cons of nitrogen? i am seriously asking because i cant think of any, i generate 10 k map in under 5 min with a fantastic preview, the customization is off the charts,  make your desired mix of everything from poi to city/town size and density, roads are good or @%$*#! depending on your choice of options, i never have any issues with the nitrogen maps. any besides the non issues they are also just well laid out i hardly ever generate a map with it that i dont want to play.

 the pimps RWG on the other hand has been a mess from day 1, i get its alpha but they've changed it up several times and seemingly few people are happy with it

Edited by Zombizie
spelling (see edit history)

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5 minutes ago, Zombizie said:

what are the cons of nitrogen? i am seriously asking because i cant think of any, i generate 10 k map in under 5 min with a fantastic preview, the customization if off the charts,  make your desired mix of everything from poi to city/town size and density, roads are good or @%$*#! depending on your choice of options, i never have any issues with the nitrogen maps. any besides the non issues they are also just well laid out i hardly ever generate a map with it that i dont want to play.

 the pimps RWG on the other hand has been a mess from day 1 i get its alpha but theyve changed it up several times and seemingly few people are happy with it

I held off using nitro until a19, the only negatives I could find was sometimes you get missing water in lines, were the sea or large bodies of water are. Nitro gen also uses more ram In game. 

Vanilla 8k: 4799MB

Nitro 8k: 6930MB

 

A17 spelled the end of vanilla rwg. Damocles thankfully stepped up and gave us a worthy replacement. I did play around with it in a17 and a18 but I just didn't get around to learning how to use it and spawn custom poi's until a18. Based on my experience with it so far and assuming the pimps never make any significant improvements to vanilla rwg, I can't see myself going back 😛

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

I've been saying this for ages. People keep acting like double loot is a bug or exploit, but you are literally doing the work twice, it's no different than if two identical PoI spawned side by side and you looted both. Why would you NOT get double the loot . . .

 

 

My turn. You would think me playing on 25% loot of all people would do this but I don't. Ask yourself what was the original intent of the developer? Thats why you don't double loot and I don't intentionally. Only time I did when I looted a building and then later grab a quest and the trader gives me a quest to loot the same building and I've already wasted the time and stamina to get there. To fix this I started marking cleared buildings and checking my map after I receive a quest so I can cancel it. This however makes it so I have limited quests I can do per day. I've also said there seems to be enough buildings for the tiers of quests around each trader so why are we even doing the same poi's twice.

 

It blows my mind in every game how everyone tries to play the game not as intended and then finds ways to justify it. You guys are ruining your simulation. Go ahead bring up how I don't nerd poll, I dare you to open that can of worms again mister brown pants:boxing2:(not specifically refering to Khalagar).

 

No loot respawn should mean when I've looted all the buildings in the map there is no more loot. They have changed it so that if I take a quest it respawns the loot in the building to keep the looting going mostly to serve multiplayer, I'm not exactly happy about this but it makes the trader quests work and it is the original intent of the of the developer.

 

Then there is emersion, realism, if your a streamer/content creator it becomes a question legitimacy and its just cheese and you know this.

 

Here it comes ready? ready? 'Well just use some 'self control!'"🤭

I do but list of things that are being added to this column are adding up. Lets just rename the game '7 days of self-control with zombies' 'Never ending loot in the apocalyptic wasteland' 'Double loot Land' 'Nerd polling double looting simulator' 'Land of the magical frame'

                                                                                                                                     'It does nearly everything'

 

Even a sandbox needs rules and balance.

 

Edit: Just wait, the way to fix pvp is going to be 'self control'

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Bashtiks said:

Any news if new experimental coming this weekend???

I would say no, purely by intuition. But MM would say:

When

East

done.

hahaha
Edited by rubens9311
CHANGE (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, madmole said:

I'm a big fan on several ways to accomplish goals. That said, it can't be as easy as dig a 3 meter hole and put a frame on your head and be safe from the horde. Things should work, for a little while, then eventually the zombies get to you. So you had better have a backup plan B, C, etc. Like my strategy only works as long as I have enough ammo. If I run out of bullets I'm screwed, other than the fact that I usually have a fair amount of concrete between me and them.

I absolutely love that too.

One of my favorites is the electric fences in combination with a more classic bunker/fort build.
Watching zombies dance to the tune of several thousand volts is a beautiful sight.

 

I've been using the new Sledgehammer turrets to knock them back behind the electric defenses once they get close enough. Even better with a flaming mod in the sledgehammer, to see them get roasted in more ways than one! :D

The highlight was when a spider zombie tried to jump over the defenses, and got sent flying all the way back. HOME RUN!

Edited by Azaron (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

I hear that selling stacks of gun safes makes you uber dukes......still........should maybe look into that. Sounds game breaking.

Edited by STyK_ (see edit history)

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The new loading tips are great - there's over 30 of them now - but they only appear during the last couple minutes of world generation. Perhaps they should be present for the entirety of a world generating, to give new players a chance of going through them all? :)

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17 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

It wasn't a complaint from my end, it's just a genuine question. Was I supposed to get this, yay or nay? *Shrug*

If I'm not supposed to have this, I'll scrap it, but if so, then I'll replace my wooden club with it.

Secret stash is where all the best stuff is, so that seems right. We don't have a way to properly bucket trader items based on game stage yet, so in A20 it could be different.

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1 minute ago, madmole said:

Secret stash is where all the best stuff is, so that seems right. We don't have a way to properly bucket trader items based on game stage yet, so in A20 it could be different.

Hidden stash loot container, not secret stash from a trader. :)

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1 hour ago, rubens9311 said:

I would say no, purely by intuition. But MM would say:

When

East

done.

hahaha

well uselessly with a stream they release a update! so hope today or tomorrow! 

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17 hours ago, Numberz said:


But remember that with shared quests all players collect the reward items and dukes from the traders.  Multiply it out for a crew of five doing a few sets of quests each day... you are talking about some serious rewards and big stacks of dukes...

 

But here is another thought.  Maybe the best way to nerf this is to make it so that only the quest taker can collect the dukes and reward items?

I'm guessing the issue is, one guy has secret stash 5 and he's buying all the best gear, because no way can he loot the best gear in a week. And doing T5 quests probably. Once traders are just a touch better than what you can find in POIs (a20) this should be solved.

17 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

The problem with quests is that they need some prerequisites to work, but those premises are different depending on the type.

  1. Clear quests need all spawns/sleepers to be reset for them to work
  2. Fetch quests need to place a satchel in an hidden compartment or block that must be still there

So when someone destroys the POI or kills the zombies in there the starting conditions are not valid anymore.

The most logical and realistic solution would be to treat quests like we'd do in a real situation.

 

If a POI has already been cleared the game must check that and exclude that POI from the list of "Clear" type quests.

At the same time, the Fetch quests, could work anyway, since you'd just have to place the satchel somewhere upon quest activation.

 

Using this approach you don't need to magically rebuild POIs upon quest activation, they will stay the same for the rest of the game.

 

Now the problem becomes that in MP games all POIs would at some point become looted and cleared.

We have several possible solutions to this:

  1. The normal zombie respawn rate for sleepers will take care of the Clear type quests automatically (placed will be filled again after some time)
  2. The normal loot respawn rate for containers will take care of the scarcity of loot in MP games (it already works like this)
  3. We need a new type of quest called (i.e.) "Rebuild/Refurbish" where you are sent to a POI to repair it and will succeed only after you have repaired a number of blocks and furniture to their original status.

This way the quest activation marker will become just a normal quest-start point while the POIs will always be in the state the player/s left them (unless you rebuild them with the appropriate new quest type that is).

There are way too many ways for things to go bad, like the zombie spawns could have blocks placed on them, the bag locations have been figured out and trolls surround them with steel, griefing everyone.

The design team wants players to experience the POI how we made it, not how Troller Joe left it.

 

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16 hours ago, FileMachete said:

Been thinking about the overall Food Mechanic in 7dtd, and contrasting it with Empyrions.

The main thing I kept coming back to as to why I preferred EGSs system was that RNG/pre-knowledge doesn't dictate progression.

To be fair EGSs system has alot more bits, so not having RNG be a big factor there might make sense while 7dtd can leverage RNG to up the difficulty. (not trying to make a 'designer' argument, just trying to provide a bit of info on EGS for those who don't know it).

 

So, just a thought but what if Corn, Potatoes and maybe Mushrooms were scarce but findable out in the wild?

Not as common as Aloe or Yukka, but more like the old Biome where there was occasionally a corn plant.

(and definately more common than Tree Stumps; I only found 6 TSs in a whole 90min day+ looking for them)

(maybe if the solo Snowberries had a 50% chance to be a Corn/Potato plant?)

This would provide an alternative for when RNG is being a pain.

 

Could also allow some loot/perk consolidation, if desired.

Could make 'Seed Crafting' just an inate skill, not a perk. Rationale being Canned food used to be basically low-mid tier, certainly good enough to use all game. That's really not the case anymore. Cooked foods are the new normal, not just a luxury, so Farming is also now a basic need (unless raw corn/potatos/etc get added to loot), and as such maybe the very basics shouldn't cost points.

 

Not saying the bonus harvests wouldn't still be 'farming' perks, and there's still gathering all the materials in order to make the farm plots, and gather the plants in the wild before you can make seeds and start a baby farm.

But could allow Seeds to be removed from loot tables, which might actually wind up making getting a farm going a bit harder.

 

Just seems a bit more in line with the extended Primative stage of things, and might feel a bit more natural progression wise.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, by 'wild' I mean out randomly in nature like the solo Snowberry bushes. Not dependent on a POI spawning.

Potatoes, corn and mushrooms already are in the wild. Any more abundance would make survival super trivial and free seeds? Buy the perk already if you think it is that important. We're not making stuff easier nor handing out perks you can buy for FREE with the starter quest. That is what those free points are for, for you to role play your own special innate knowledge. Stop wasting it on combat if you think you should know how to cook and farm from the start.

16 hours ago, FileMachete said:

Really? Cool beans if so then.

 

huh, ok. Blueberries I recall looting, and Corn Meal. Guess I've just been blind to the others, heh.

 

And was aware of the small fields for Corn/Potatos/Blueberries, but those are POIs.

 

I'll edit my post to add-->Just to clarify, by 'wild' I mean out randomly in nature like the solo Snowberry bushes.

There are tons of POIs that have small gardens, and farms with enough food to last one player for weeks already. Adding more is just going to make the game too easy.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, madmole said:

The design team wants players to experience the POI how we made it, not how Troller Joe left it.


 

i swear i did not do it... i was all alone that night and i have witnesses. :)

 

Edited by unholyjoe (see edit history)
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