Alpha 19 Dev Diary

[Eko]

Another thing i forgot!

 

You've done well to slow progression down in regards to loot. The tiers seem right now. However, I am still finding things at the traders way above my looting tier. I find advanced engineering and grease monkey (sometimes physician too) to be quite arbitrary now. I think that traders could use a balance like the loot and if my other idea above or something similar were to be implemented, this should slow the min maxers down a little. Otherwise, you get to day 40 and you don't see any point in continuing because you dont want for anything.

 

Lastly, the start is so engaging and addictive because its a real challenge to keep your weapon loaded with ammo. As you play, the bullets start raining down, so much so that unless im on difficulty 4 or above, day 30ish rolls around and im swimming in so many bullets that i barely need to craft them! I don't think the zombie difficulty scales enough with the technology and ammo that becomes available to the player. 

 

Thanks for reading, if you did, and I hope my ideas help  always loved this game right from the earlier alphas!

[Tmodloader]

Something I want to debate since it sounds like it will be up for debate when power tools require stamina. Don't power tools also require fuel? Shouldn't they be better than all tools which do not require fuel? Or will this be another case of they're better only if perked into? If that's the case I'd suggest they be a ton better instead of just marginally to account for perk investment and higher resource costs. 

[DaVegaNL]

10 hours ago, Blake_ said:

Like my face ! Ha! Haha!

Nah you face is HD, mate. Highly Deformed! :P

[katarynna]

One final thought on double looting poi's...

 

Is the real issue people have with it just grabbing the final loot, then starting the quest? or is it the looting the entire poi?

 

I personally don't see an issue with the people who clear and loot the whole poi before starting the quest. Honestly usually you would be better off just doing the quest and spending the extra time target looting a poi without a quest that has a high chance of having things you actually really need (eg a paper mill if you are using a blunderbuss or shotgun). If in mp there are few buildings left close by to loot, then let them get double from quests imo.

 

If the issue is with people nerdpoling to the roof to grab the final loot only and then starting the quest, madmole has talked about changes in the works to make this either much more difficult or impossible. Until those changes are in, talking about spending time reworking game mechanics to fix something that might not be "broken" seems premature.

[Roland]

2 hours ago, Gazz said:

You don't get anything double.

You get the layout of the poi and learn where things are. This may not matter as much once you have played the game enough to remember every POI but I still find one's I've not seen before. Going through the second time is much easier and arguably cheaper resource wise. Again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is, in fact, like someone else mentioned just like two duplicate POI's spawning right next to each other.

 

And yet...a lot of effort over two alphas was spent on eliminating duplicate pois on an entire map-- especially to prevent them from spawning next to each other. That's all this would be is taking it the final step of having no duplicate POI's right in proximity to each other. I agree, though, that this is probably not worth the effort. Just like Dead is Dead it is a way of playing that is easily chosen by the player if that is what they want to do.

22 minutes ago, katarynna said:

Is the real issue people have with it just grabbing the final loot, then starting the quest? or is it the looting the entire poi?

I think the issue is getting a preview of the dungeon right before doing the quest for real. For people that have 1000s of hours and awesome memories it probably isn't a big deal. But starting a quest at a previously unexplored POI is more fun than starting one at the same POI you've already memorized. Eliminating the opportunity to do a dry run before the quest starts will make the quests better.

 

Yes, you earn the loot both times but the second time through in such close proximity to the first is more of a gimme than a wage.

[bloodmoth13]

1 hour ago, Gazz said:

That really only works in single player, though, where no one sees it as a problem to begin with.

On a MP server you you would split the party and clear the POI you do not have the quest for. (you still know where it is)

Then the one guy who has the quest moves over, shares it, and you get a respawn from the quest.

It would take a bit of coordination but it would not really change anything.

 

I really don't see the problem to begin with. If you clear a POI then you are entitled to the loot. If you clear it as part of a quest you are entitled to the loot and the quest reward.

You don't get anything double.

Now some people would say that because for them it's normal to nerdpole to the loot room and clean it out, then start the quest.

That is a completely different issue.

For me the only real problem is breaking immersion.

 

If you loot a building you deserve the loot, doing the same style building twice in a row isnt a problem, doing the same exact building twice in a row though feels like cheating (regardless of 'earning' the rewards).

 

You could roll existing loot from the poi into the refreshed one so that you only have to loot it once, honestly that would remove the feeling of cheating but give the same rewards and remove the incentive of doing it twice, unless the player really wanted xp for zombie kills.

 

Honestly though it think its more a perception issue, you are allowed to loot every poi in the world and start quests that refresh it, its not game breaking or cheating, but it sure feels like cheating.

[jenniann]

Does anyone that play's MP have a problem that the non host doesn't seem to get infections/abrasions etc? My husband hosts not on a server, and i have not once been infected etc but he get's them quite often when getting hit. I have been hit heaps of times and gotten nothing?

[Roland]

3 minutes ago, jenniann said:

Does anyone that play's MP have a problem that the non host doesn't seem to get infections/abrasions etc? My husband hosts not on a server, and i have not once been infected etc but he get's them quite often when getting hit. I have been hit heaps of times and gotten nothing?

Tell him to disengage the "wife setting".... 

[bloodmoth13]

43 minutes ago, katarynna said:

One final thought on double looting poi's...

 

Is the real issue people have with it just grabbing the final loot, then starting the quest? or is it the looting the entire poi?

 

I personally don't see an issue with the people who clear and loot the whole poi before starting the quest. Honestly usually you would be better off just doing the quest and spending the extra time target looting a poi without a quest that has a high chance of having things you actually really need (eg a paper mill if you are using a blunderbuss or shotgun). If in mp there are few buildings left close by to loot, then let them get double from quests imo.

 

If the issue is with people nerdpoling to the roof to grab the final loot only and then starting the quest, madmole has talked about changes in the works to make this either much more difficult or impossible. Until those changes are in, talking about spending time reworking game mechanics to fix something that might not be "broken" seems premature.

Thats a nerdpoling issue then isnt it.

 

 

Heres a very simple solution: you cannot place a frame while jumping outside your land claim zone.

 

You can still build and make a ramp to your destination, but it will be a lot more difficult.

 

Alternatively, you could have a loot stage modifier that temporarily increases depending on recent zombie kills. Say, each zombie killed within the last 5 min or so increases your loot stage by a certain amount up to a cap. Killing another zombie refreshes it, this way you have to kill a minimum number of zombies to get the best loot and nerdpolling will give you @%$*#! loot.

Essentially this ties the challenge to the reward, if you cant do the challenge and go straight to the reward, you WILL be disappointed.

 

[Khalagar]

Y'all way over think things that aren't actually problems, and then make solutions that completely cripple unrelated parts of the game to resolve them.

 

Nerd poling for the final loot in a PoI is cheesy, but they have already addressed it and said they have several ideas like a keycard on a random zombie in the PoI.

 

"Double looting" a PoI is not an issue to begin with, it's just a min max thing that's mildly more efficient, but you are spending the time and effort to loot it,  so there is no issue with getting the loot if you want to go through the trouble.

 

Nerd poling is 100% fine, it makes PoI way more fun and lets you approach them from different angles and use strategies that aren't just "pull out shotgun and clean house".

[Biscoitoso]

8 minutes ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Thats a nerdpoling issue then isnt it.

 

 

Heres a very simple solution: you cannot place a frame while jumping outside your land claim zone.

 

You can still build and make a ramp to your destination, but it will be a lot more difficult.

 

Alternatively, you could have a loot stage modifier that temporarily increases depending on recent zombie kills. Say, each zombie killed within the last 5 min or so increases your loot stage by a certain amount up to a cap. Killing another zombie refreshes it, this way you have to kill a minimum number of zombies to get the best loot and nerdpolling will give you @%$*#! loot.

Essentially this ties the challenge to the reward, if you cant do the challenge and go straight to the reward, you WILL be disappointed.

 

Maybe a indesctrutible chest can be at final loot, that chest have 2 locks, one can be opened by lockpick/destruction, another can be opened just with a special key. That kay is randomly droped by any zombie in the POI. Even if the player use nerpolling, he cant get the final loot without that key.

[Xtrakicking]

2 minutes ago, Biscoitoso said:

Maybe a indesctrutible chest can be at final loot, that chest have 2 locks, one can be opened by lockpick/destruction, another can be opened just with a special key. That kay is randomly droped by any zombie in the POI. Even if the player use nerpolling, he cant get the final loot without that key.

Yeah, I'd rather have something like this than restraining the player from interacting with the world. What's the point of voxels if you're just forbidding the player from building/destroying the world? The fact that you don't always have to follow the lights is, in my opinion, a super fun aspect of looting.

[Gr.o.m.]

17 minutes ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Thats a nerdpoling issue then isnt it.

 

 

Heres a very simple solution: you cannot place a frame while jumping outside your land claim zone.

 

You can still build and make a ramp to your destination, but it will be a lot more difficult.

 

Alternatively, you could have a loot stage modifier that temporarily increases depending on recent zombie kills. Say, each zombie killed within the last 5 min or so increases your loot stage by a certain amount up to a cap. Killing another zombie refreshes it, this way you have to kill a minimum number of zombies to get the best loot and nerdpolling will give you @%$*#! loot.

Essentially this ties the challenge to the reward, if you cant do the challenge and go straight to the reward, you WILL be disappointed.

 

Like any simple  solution, the devil sits in the details.

Not allowing to  place any blocks outside a landclaim area will cause a lot of problems, without solving anything. Ppl. would simply place landclaimblock and than nerdpole.

[bloodmoth13]

2 minutes ago, Gr.o.m. said:

Like any simple  solution, the devil sits in the details.

Not allowing to  place any blocks outside a landclaim area will cause a lot of problems, without solving anything. Ppl. would simply place landclaimblock and than nerdpole.

you missed 'while jumping'.

that would only affect nerd polling, meanwhile building a catwalk over a dicey trap would still be perfectly fine (so long as your not jumping!)

12 minutes ago, Biscoitoso said:

Maybe a indesctrutible chest can be at final loot, that chest have 2 locks, one can be opened by lockpick/destruction, another can be opened just with a special key. That kay is randomly droped by any zombie in the POI. Even if the player use nerpolling, he cant get the final loot without that key.

I like the idea of finding a special key, in fact that key could be unique per character so that as long as a player loots that key they can get the chest, regardless of who else has been through, which would be nice in multiplayer.

Nothing worse than clearing a shotgun messiah and getting to the loot at the top only to realize a nerdpole sitting next to an empty chest.

[Gr.o.m.]

2 minutes ago, bloodmoth13 said:

you missed 'while jumping'.

that would only affect nerd polling, meanwhile building a catwalk over a dicey trap would still be perfectly fine (so long as your not jumping!)

You missed: Pply would simply place landclaimblocks and than nerdpole.

[Numberz]

53 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

And yet...a lot of effort over two alphas was spent on eliminating duplicate pois on an entire map-- especially to prevent them from spawning next to each other. That's all this would be is taking it the final step of having no duplicate POI's right in proximity to each other. I agree, though, that this is probably not worth the effort. Just like Dead is Dead it is a way of playing that is easily chosen by the player if that is what they want to do.

I think the issue is getting a preview of the dungeon right before doing the quest for real. For people that have 1000s of hours and awesome memories it probably isn't a big deal. But starting a quest at a previously unexplored POI is more fun than starting one at the same POI you've already memorized. Eliminating the opportunity to do a dry run before the quest starts will make the quests better.

 

Yes, you earn the loot both times but the second time through in such close proximity to the first is more of a gimme than a wage.

Agree completely.  This isn’t really about the loot.  In fact, the amount of extra loot that is harvested is pretty negligible. The real issue is that the developer has invested time and effort to provide a unique and exciting experience and double looting only serves to cheapen or spoil that experience.  We get it that players are choosing to do it but it is now so common as to almost have become a meme.  My thought is that the developer would want to do what they could to preserve these game experiences in the spirit that they were intended.

[Bashtiks]

Any news if new experimental coming this weekend???

[PoloPoPo]

I don't get that whole discussion about "double looting". Where is the problem?

 

- It is a legit strategy. You have to fight the zombies twice, clear the POI twice and therefore get twice the loot. Just like you'd loot the POI on the other side of the street instead. If you think it is too boring simply don't loot before accepting the quest.

 

- There will be a point in the game where most quests will be a "looting the same POI again". T5 quests for example, there is only a little amount of T5 POIs so you have to clear the same T5 POI over and over again. No one cares about that I guess? Or when I have looted the whole city near my base and closest trader. Whenever I accept a quest from that trader he will send me to a POI I have looted already again. Who cares if I have looted that same POI 10 hours ago, 3 hours ago or 10 minutes ago? It is still the same.

 

I am only talking about Singleplayer or people playing Multiplayer in co-op mode (as a team). Don't think 7D2D is really suited to be a PvP game anyway.

[Yopo]

I have the solution to these two non-exsistnace problems ppl claim that exists cause the thought of someone doing something their not, irks them to no end and thus they feel cheated for it. 

We implament the “self-control” option in the games option menu. 

Leaving it off, the game plays like normal, do whatever you want, however you want, have your cake your way and eat it, enjoy it, relish it. But turn the option on and you here by declare that you will exacute self-control and practice what you preach by not doing any of the two things you fought so hard against to not be in game,  and the very moment you break your self-control, complete and instant prementant computer wipe and brick. 

Said option will be locked in when game is started with no way to undo it. 

Only way to change it is to start a new game 

Lol that’ll teach ya. 😛

[SnowDog1942]

3 hours ago, jenniann said:

Does anyone that play's MP have a problem that the non host doesn't seem to get infections/abrasions etc? My husband hosts not on a server, and i have not once been infected etc but he get's them quite often when getting hit. I have been hit heaps of times and gotten nothing?

sounds like you need a man.
 

 

PM for more info.

 

 

 

[Onarr]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

You get the layout of the poi and learn where things are. This may not matter as much once you have played the game enough to remember every POI but I still find one's I've not seen before. Going through the second time is much easier and arguably cheaper resource wise. Again, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. It is, in fact, like someone else mentioned just like two duplicate POI's spawning right next to each other.

 

And yet...a lot of effort over two alphas was spent on eliminating duplicate pois on an entire map-- especially to prevent them from spawning next to each other. That's all this would be is taking it the final step of having no duplicate POI's right in proximity to each other. I agree, though, that this is probably not worth the effort. Just like Dead is Dead it is a way of playing that is easily chosen by the player if that is what they want to do.

I think the issue is getting a preview of the dungeon right before doing the quest for real. For people that have 1000s of hours and awesome memories it probably isn't a big deal. But starting a quest at a previously unexplored POI is more fun than starting one at the same POI you've already memorized. Eliminating the opportunity to do a dry run before the quest starts will make the quests better.

 

Yes, you earn the loot both times but the second time through in such close proximity to the first is more of a gimme than a wage.

Main problem in my eyes is, that double dipping is not enjoyable, but because its effective people will do it so they get more stuff. When you have looted your city already, many people will opt to double dip the close quest instead of going 1,5 miles for another. Its easier. This combined with absolutely atrocious roads that do (not) exist between cities and lack of gameplay on the "road," it is quite understandable. I would probably not remove double dipping until the random world gen is fixed so that roads can be traveled easily and there is event system that keeps player occupied. However yes, in the end I would remove such possibility.

[Jost Amman]

5 minutes ago, Onarr said:

Main problem in my eyes is, that double dipping is not enjoyable, but because its effective people will do it so they get more stuff. When you have looted your city already, many people will opt to double dip the close quest instead of going 1,5 miles for another. Its easier. This combined with absolutely atrocious roads that do (not) exist between cities and lack of gameplay on the "road," it is quite understandable. I would probably not remove double dipping until the random world gen is fixed so that roads can be traveled easily and there is event system that keeps player occupied. However yes, in the end I would remove such possibility.

Honestly, I don't see that many problems with RWG roads.

[Onarr]

3 hours ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Thats a nerdpoling issue then isnt it.

 

 

Heres a very simple solution: you cannot place a frame while jumping outside your land claim zone.

 

You can still build and make a ramp to your destination, but it will be a lot more difficult.

 

Alternatively, you could have a loot stage modifier that temporarily increases depending on recent zombie kills. Say, each zombie killed within the last 5 min or so increases your loot stage by a certain amount up to a cap. Killing another zombie refreshes it, this way you have to kill a minimum number of zombies to get the best loot and nerdpolling will give you @%$*#! loot.

Essentially this ties the challenge to the reward, if you cant do the challenge and go straight to the reward, you WILL be disappointed.

 

Personally I see nerpolling as a problem. If it was removed I would be happy. That is, ladders are the way to get to high places innit? 

4 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Honestly, I don't see that many problems with RWG roads.

Are  you playing nitrogen or default maps?

[Jost Amman]

31 minutes ago, Onarr said:

34 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Honestly, I don't see that many problems with RWG roads.

Are  you playing nitrogen or default maps?

Default of course.

 

I don't say roads are perfect, but far from unrealistic or broken or "missing".

The problem is that RWG is still random, so what I get with one seed could be totally different when I change seed.

[Zombizie]

36 minutes ago, Onarr said:

 

Are  you playing nitrogen or default maps?

god god if anyone reading this answered default. for your own sanity switch to nitrogen.  miles better in every way i can think of. fun pimps RWG is an embarasment