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madmole

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Might want to check the loot tables of hidden stashes. I got a level 1 baseball bat on day 1 at gamestage 7. I mean, I'll take it, but I have a feeling I'm not supposed to have this.

 

7_Days_To_Die_2020-07-30_1_52_47_PM.thumb.png.a453e34bfb4b16facaabd4126ebeb48e.png

 

 

Edit: Day 3, not day 1

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Roland said:

Here’s all you need to do. When the quest marker is within 30 meters start a timer countdown of 30 seconds. If the quest marker isn’t activated in that time the quest fails. No time to loot the house before the quest needs to start and no need to activate the quest from the edge of the chunk. Just put a time restraint when the player is near enough to easily make it but not pre-loot the house. 

I don't like this idea because I play MP and generally like to make sure we're all prepared right at the marker, it'd need to be at least a few minutes long if there was a timer, or an adjustable setting
On second thought I suppose I could start the quest once at the marker but I guess I just feel like once I start it I'm in for a ride. Not entirely sure how it all works but I think if there was a timer, making it 1-2minutes wouldn't hurt

Either way this can also be handled pretty simply with player self discipline

Edited by Tmodloader (see edit history)

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2 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Might want to check the loot tables of hidden stashes. I got a level 1 baseball bat on day 1 at gamestage 7. I mean, I'll take it, but I have a feeling I'm not supposed to have this.

Spoiler

7_Days_To_Die_2020-07-30_1_52_47_PM.thumb.png.a453e34bfb4b16facaabd4126ebeb48e.png

Edit: Day 3, not day 1

I've been reading for days (after the A19 release) people complaining about the stone age being boring and too long.

Now when someone gets something a bit better than stone age in the early GS/days sounds like the game is broken...

 

So, which is it? Do we want the boring stone age lasting the entire first week or do we want some variation here and there?

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Just now, Jost Amman said:

I've been reading for days (after the A19 release) people complaining about the stone age being boring and too long.

Now when someone gets something a bit better than stone age in the early GS/days sounds like the game is broken...

 

So, which is it? Do we want the boring stone age lasting the entire first week or do we want some variation here and there?

It wasn't a complaint from my end, it's just a genuine question. Was I supposed to get this, yay or nay? *Shrug*

If I'm not supposed to have this, I'll scrap it, but if so, then I'll replace my wooden club with it.

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

It wasn't a complaint from my end, it's just a genuine question. Was I supposed to get this, yay or nay? *Shrug*

If I'm not supposed to have this, I'll scrap it, but if so, then I'll replace my wooden club with it.

I'm fairly certain they dont make it impossible to get higher tier stuff, just more rare than it used to be with the GS scales tipping you further towards certain loot, probably impossible to jump to the highest tier stuff from lowest though

Edited by Tmodloader (see edit history)

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Just now, MechanicalLens said:

It wasn't a complaint from my end, it's just a genuine question. Was I supposed to get this, yay or nay? *Shrug*

Yeah, but my question is also in general... which one do we really want?

 

Personally I'd vote for a bit of variation here and there, especially inside the final loot chests, so that we have a very low chance to find something "not of this age" even when we're still in the stone phase.

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10 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I think starting and stopping and resetting the timer any time some player walks near and then leaves is more complicated—but maybe not. 

 

Not complicated. It could perform better than music transitions at the moment : a bit slow and hitting fps on lower end systems. Best case scenario will just be like if every player on the server opens a working forge at the same time.

 

I like the idea though. I really do. Sounds good for an a20 fast tweak.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Jost Amman said:

Yeah, but my question is also in general... which one do we really want?

 

Personally I'd vote for a bit of variation here and there, especially inside the final loot chests, so that we have a very low chance to find something "not of this age" even when we're still in the stone phase.

I vote for some small variation all the way. A toilet pistol here, a baseball bat there. It helps break up the monetary. But again, if it was an oversight in the loot table, then I'll scrap it. I'm keeping it away in storage for now.

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42 minutes ago, madmole said:

Yeah you don't see them often so it is a holy crap moment when you do. I think you can plan on much more of that in the future, we have some truly scary stuff in the works.

Are you talking about Alpha 19? End game gear by day 7? I find that highly doubtful, or we need to nerf XP in parties to be negative.


But remember that with shared quests all players collect the reward items and dukes from the traders.  Multiply it out for a crew of five doing a few sets of quests each day... you are talking about some serious rewards and big stacks of dukes...

 

But here is another thought.  Maybe the best way to nerf this is to make it so that only the quest taker can collect the dukes and reward items?

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4 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

I wonder if this will include any additional aerial threats? 🤔 Out with the vulture, in with the condor.

 

Any chance of a fire-puking variant? ;) (Or perhaps bandits could throw molotovs on top of their conventional arsenal, idk.)

Forget vultures and condors ... I'm holding out for dragons.  But only if you have a chance to tame them and ride them too. 

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The problem with quests is that they need some prerequisites to work, but those premises are different depending on the type.

  1. Clear quests need all spawns/sleepers to be reset for them to work
  2. Fetch quests need to place a satchel in an hidden compartment or block that must be still there

So when someone destroys the POI or kills the zombies in there the starting conditions are not valid anymore.

The most logical and realistic solution would be to treat quests like we'd do in a real situation.

 

If a POI has already been cleared the game must check that and exclude that POI from the list of "Clear" type quests.

At the same time, the Fetch quests, could work anyway, since you'd just have to place the satchel somewhere upon quest activation.

 

Using this approach you don't need to magically rebuild POIs upon quest activation, they will stay the same for the rest of the game.

 

Now the problem becomes that in MP games all POIs would at some point become looted and cleared.

We have several possible solutions to this:

  1. The normal zombie respawn rate for sleepers will take care of the Clear type quests automatically (placed will be filled again after some time)
  2. The normal loot respawn rate for containers will take care of the scarcity of loot in MP games (it already works like this)
  3. We need a new type of quest called (i.e.) "Rebuild/Refurbish" where you are sent to a POI to repair it and will succeed only after you have repaired a number of blocks and furniture to their original status.

This way the quest activation marker will become just a normal quest-start point while the POIs will always be in the state the player/s left them (unless you rebuild them with the appropriate new quest type that is).

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16 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

It wasn't a complaint from my end, it's just a genuine question. Was I supposed to get this, yay or nay? *Shrug*

If I'm not supposed to have this, I'll scrap it, but if so, then I'll replace my wooden club with it.

I'd just be happy you found something. Try 25% loot, you'll think every playthough you did before that was a continuous christmas in comparison. Its also a quality 1 so just good RNG.

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4 minutes ago, Numberz said:


But remember that with shared quests all players collect the reward items and dukes from the traders.  Multiply it out for a crew of five doing a few sets of quests each day... you are talking about some serious rewards and big stacks of dukes...

 

But here is another thought.  Maybe the best way to nerf this is to make it so that only the quest taker can collect the dukes and reward items?

Why nerf it at all?  It works just fine as it is designed. If you don't like double looting POI's then don't double loot them. If it ruins the game for you, exercise some self control and just don't do it.  Walk up to the big glowy exclamation point and select start.

 

What does it matter if Joe and Bob have the ultimate armor of doom by the end of the first week?  (Good for them, because I'm really surprised they haven't died yet ... and they've obviously been busting their butts.) 

 

It's not kindergarten.  We don't have to make sure we have enough gum to share with the class.  So unless you're experiencing gun envy, don't worry about what Joe and Bob have.  Or, if it's a PvP server, and you are experiencing gun envy, kill them and take their stuff, then you too can have the uber gun of doom.

 

And if you start down this road, where does it end?  Since the problem seems to be people sharing quests and experience, why not just say no more quest sharing? Why is that right? Why does your inability to control yourself mean that someone else gets screwed? 

 

And this isn't all directed at you ... it's at the entire rant on this subject. Seriously, why can't people just let other people play the game the way they want? There's no one right way to play the game. There's no one ring to control them all here. Take your precious and go bury it somewhere and leave the rest alone.

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2 minutes ago, Pegasus said:

What does it matter if Joe and Bob have the ultimate armor of doom by the end of the first week?  (Good for them, because I'm really surprised they haven't died yet ... and they've obviously been busting their butts.) 

 

It's not kindergarten.  We don't have to make sure we have enough gum to share with the class.  So unless you're experiencing gun envy, don't worry about what Joe and Bob have.  Or, if it's a PvP server, and you are experiencing gun envy, kill them and take their stuff, then you too can have the uber gun of doom.

I'm all for letting Joe having the best loot... but I really don't trust Bob, sorry! 😁

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One thing as a new player that made me incredibly frustrated was having a quest at a location that I had a chest set down and filled with items. I had no idea or indication that the quest would delete the chest and the entire inventory. That would be good to say somewhere for new players.

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2 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

If a POI has already been cleared the game must check that and exclude that POI from the list of "Clear" type quests.

Not everyone does quests as soon as they pick them up. Would you have it so that if someone has accepted a clear quest, no one else can accept a clear quest for that poi? what if the person who accepted a clear quest never logs back on to that server? there are not that many t5 quest poi's, and removing them forever from the quest pool if someone accepts it and never completes it is a bad thing imo.

 

4 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

At the same time, the Fetch quests, could work anyway, since you'd just have to place the satchel somewhere upon quest activation.

If the poi is clear of zombies, the fetch quests would be a snooze fest. just run to the swprite and grab the satchel. no combat, no loot.

 

6 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

The normal loot respawn rate for containers will take care of the scarcity of loot in MP games (it already works like this)

as long as no one gets close enough to the containers to reset the loot respawn timer. 

 

6 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

We need a new type of quest called (i.e.) "Rebuild/Refurbish" where you are sent to a POI to repair it and will succeed only after you have repaired a number of blocks and furniture to their original status.

a lot of the deco items are not craftable or lootable, and are never going to be in vanilla. how would you replace the destroyed items?

 

And just in general, i am assuming you also expect the game to check the possible quest poi's to see if they are currently populated with zombies and if they are still in a repaired/furnished state. Will this have a performance impact and if so, how much of one?

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@katarynna: I've got an answer to each of your questions, but I'm too lazy now and watching something... so just imagine I have a solution for each one of your issues and tell me if you endorse the concept. If not, it's futile for me writing a full page of text to reply.

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10 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

The problem with quests is that they need some prerequisites to work, but those premises are different depending on the type.

  1. Clear quests need all spawns/sleepers to be reset for them to work
  2. Fetch quests need to place a satchel in an hidden compartment or block that must be still there

So when someone destroys the POI or kills the zombies in there the starting conditions are not valid anymore.

The most logical and realistic solution would be to treat quests like we'd do in a real situation.

 

If a POI has already been cleared the game must check that and exclude that POI from the list of "Clear" type quests.

At the same time, the Fetch quests, could work anyway, since you'd just have to place the satchel somewhere upon quest activation.

 

Using this approach you don't need to magically rebuild POIs upon quest activation, they will stay the same for the rest of the game.

 

Now the problem becomes that in MP games all POIs would at some point become looted and cleared.

We have several possible solutions to this:

  1. The normal zombie respawn rate for sleepers will take care of the Clear type quests automatically (placed will be filled again after some time)
  2. The normal loot respawn rate for containers will take care of the scarcity of loot in MP games (it already works like this)
  3. We need a new type of quest called (i.e.) "Rebuild/Refurbish" where you are sent to a POI to repair it and will succeed only after you have repaired a number of blocks and furniture to their original status.

This way the quest activation marker will become just a normal quest-start point while the POIs will always be in the state the player/s left them (unless you rebuild them with the appropriate new quest type that is).

 

But where does logic apply to this world?  Why is it logical for loot to respawn?  Cabinets that were empty three days ago suddenly magically sprout more food?  Are you just really bad at looting?  Are you blind?  Did you somehow miss the cans in the cabinet?  Or a toilet that you took a gun from last week suddenly has another gun in it?  Is it a dimensional portal?  Is the gun fairy leaving guns in toilets?  Is the Zombie Easter Bunny hiding guns instead of eggs?

 

When you "almost die" you're somehow magically teleported back to a place where you set down a bedroll?  Where's the logic in that?

 

You can't figure out how to put a seed into dirt until you craft a farm plot?  What, the zombie germs in regular soil make it so seeds won't grow? I have a black thumb and i can even get potatoes to sprout.  I'm pretty sure the zombie apocalypse wouldn't stop that.

 

We suspend belief just to play this game.  It's not about "reality" and "logic".

 

Why are we making things harder than they need to be?  This game isn't about logic.  This game is supposed to be about having some form of fun.  I don't know about you, but I don't find looting places that are already looted or destroyed fun. And the zombies do plenty of damage on their own.

 

If you don't like the way the quests work .. don't do the quests.  No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to do quests.  Heck, you don't even have to do the starting quests if you don't want to.  

 

Why wreck something that other people enjoy just because you don't like the way they work?  Just don't do them.

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Just now, Pegasus said:

 

But where does logic apply to this world?  Why is it logical for loot to respawn?  Cabinets that were empty three days ago suddenly magically sprout more food?  Are you just really bad at looting?  Are you blind?  Did you somehow miss the cans in the cabinet?  Or a toilet that you took a gun from last week suddenly has another gun in it?  Is it a dimensional portal?  Is the gun fairy leaving guns in toilets?  Is the Zombie Easter Bunny hiding guns instead of eggs?

Are you implying that you're special? Scavenger set up camp there and died leaving behind some loot

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Posted (edited)

@Jost Amman i find the concept interesting. i am not trying to shoot down your idea, more just theorycrafting how to make it work for multiplayer,

 

it seems solid for sp and small-group coop, but seems like it would break questing on mp servers where people aren't all running together in a group.

 

I only play sp and coop with friends, so i have no problems either way lol. i just like brainstorming ideas that interest me, while hopefully giving you ideas of things that still need refining for your idea to work.

 

no need to write a thesis if you are not in the mood. i mostly just roll with whatever changes are made and adjust the game where needed so that i still have fun.

Edited by katarynna
tag jost (see edit history)

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7 minutes ago, Tmodloader said:

One thing as a new player that made me incredibly frustrated was having a quest at a location that I had a chest set down and filled with items. I had no idea or indication that the quest would delete the chest and the entire inventory. That would be good to say somewhere for new players.

yep with no safety stopping poi's from resetting trying to settle in a poi is pretty much toast till enough complaining is done. Just wait it will be how people screw each other over on purpose in pvp. Only way around this I could see currently is building a wall around it and putting a landclaim down so other players can't reach the mission marker.  Then people will complain about that too.

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Posted (edited)

Been thinking about the overall Food Mechanic in 7dtd, and contrasting it with Empyrions.

The main thing I kept coming back to as to why I preferred EGSs system was that RNG/pre-knowledge doesn't dictate progression.

To be fair EGSs system has alot more bits, so not having RNG be a big factor there might make sense while 7dtd can leverage RNG to up the difficulty. (not trying to make a 'designer' argument, just trying to provide a bit of info on EGS for those who don't know it).

 

So, just a thought but what if Corn, Potatoes and maybe Mushrooms were scarce but findable out in the wild?

Not as common as Aloe or Yukka, but more like the old Biome where there was occasionally a corn plant.

(and definately more common than Tree Stumps; I only found 6 TSs in a whole 90min day+ looking for them)

(maybe if the solo Snowberries had a 50% chance to be a Corn/Potato plant?)

This would provide an alternative for when RNG is being a pain.

 

Could also allow some loot/perk consolidation, if desired.

Could make 'Seed Crafting' just an inate skill, not a perk. Rationale being Canned food used to be basically low-mid tier, certainly good enough to use all game. That's really not the case anymore. Cooked foods are the new normal, not just a luxury, so Farming is also now a basic need (unless raw corn/potatos/etc get added to loot), and as such maybe the very basics shouldn't cost points.

 

Not saying the bonus harvests wouldn't still be 'farming' perks, and there's still gathering all the materials in order to make the farm plots, and gather the plants in the wild before you can make seeds and start a baby farm.

But could allow Seeds to be removed from loot tables, which might actually wind up making getting a farm going a bit harder.

 

Just seems a bit more in line with the extended Primative stage of things, and might feel a bit more natural progression wise.

 

Edit: Just to clarify, by 'wild' I mean out randomly in nature like the solo Snowberry bushes. Not dependent on a POI spawning.

Edited by FileMachete (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

yep with no safety stopping poi's from resetting trying to settle in a poi is pretty much toast till enough complaining is done. Just wait it will be how people screw each other over on purpose in pvp. Only way around this I could see currently is building a wall around it and putting a landclaim down so other players can't reach the mission marker.  Then people will complain about that too.

Putting a bedroll down stops quests from being activated, which stops the POIs from being reset.  So if you want to claim a POI, drop down a bedroll and it can't be reset.

 

 It's already an issue on an MP server ... but many MP servers actually have rules that you cannot claim an existing POI just for this reason.  In SP or small group COOP it's not an issue since claiming one POI out of however many are on the map isn't going to be a problem.

Edited by Pegasus (see edit history)

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1 minute ago, FileMachete said:

So, just a thought but what if Corn, Potatoes and maybe Mushrooms were scarce but findable out in the wild?

I read they can be already if you know where to look, I've definitely found mushrooms in the wild myself and corn. 

1 minute ago, Pegasus said:

Putting a bedroll down stops quests from being activated.  It's already an issue on an MP server ... but many MP servers actually have rules that you cannot claim an existing POI just for this reason.  In SP or small group COOP it's not an issue since claiming one POI out of however many are on the map isn't going to be a problem.

Still would be nice if there was some indicator in game for this for new players or someone that just has a lapse of thought and made a mistake

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1 minute ago, FileMachete said:

(unless raw corn/potatos/etc get added to loot)

they already are added to loot. especially shamway crates often give corn, potatoes, blueberries, etc.

 

you can also find all of them in the world. there are new pois in a19 that look like a park with a fountain in the middle. those have all the farm crops growing there. blueberries grow wild in the snow biome. mushrooms grow often in cave pois. and there are farm pois for corn and potatoes.

 

and i find most of my seeds in trash for some reason, but yeah, the seeds are lootable as well. 

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