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madmole

Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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59 minutes ago, Krows said:

 

Loving these new super foods; I can focus on feeding my character for most of the day with one meal. Keeping my eyes open for the components is well worth it for these items. However, 3 out of 4 of these meals require a Can of Peas. Whether this was an intentional bottle neck or not, I'm finding in the current A19 playthrough the contributing factor to crafting any of these is if I've found any Peas; I'm stocked on all the other components for Gumbo Stew, Shepard's Pie and Tuna Fish Gravy on Toast.

 

If this was meant to be the case, carry on; but, if you're looking for input, maybe increasing the chance for Peas at Vending Stations / Food Drops for higher-level GS would put more super foods on the table.

or give us a way to construct a Can of Peas.

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15 minutes ago, madmole said:

Junk drone might become a remote control building tool, so you can fly and build like in creative mode. Then we could remove or limit nerd poling. Like only so many frames high before it collapses. I don't see nerd poling as a cheat though, we just need it so zombies can climb up a nerd pole just like a ladder or knock it down with one hit successfully, easily, etc.

I'm waiting for zombies to be able to climb ledges (some jump and grab onto the ledge even higher).

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12 hours ago, Biscoitoso said:

WOW! Great move man. And here is more for you: Every POI has it own maze, how about put some locked doors to let players with lock pick and stealth skills have more path options? To be honest, I think lockpick is very easy, it should be more difficulty to players without the proper skill. So, the players who have invested in lock pick will have more advantage when raiding than players without that because they will can unlock doors and get easy paths to explore the POI.

But great idea:
barricaded = doors what were never meant to be opened.

locked doors = doors what can be unlocked through lockpick
player made doors = never can be opened.

Anyway, I support your suggestion. 👍
 

Well the level guys probably don't want to reinvent over 500 POIs so at best it might be like those side bathrooms with the partially broken wooden door where there is a bit of loot in there, and potentially the loot rooms will be lined with steel and require a key that drops from a random boss zombie in the POI somewhere, to discourage nerd poling/chopping a short cut to the end. We haven't finalized what if anything will be done yet.

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5 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Nerdpoling is a term that originated in Minecraft. It describes a person looking downwards, jumping, and placing a block directly beneath them, rinse and repeat.

thank you! 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, madmole said:

Blake? Any plans for you to gain some self control? Does the min maxer in you compel you to go in and clear it/loot it before hitting the exclamation? I stopped doing it, so can you!

I keep telling them all you need to do is reset it when you are close to the chunk. Then they give me these edge cases about what if they don't go there? I say "mission fail" if somehow a voxel gets changed or another player not in the party dirties the chunk before you hit the exclamation mark. So we go round and round about this. At the end of the day it is only the 5000 hour SP guys with no self control that it affects so it is low priority. Because in MP there is possibility it was already looted.

Yeah. I know all the edge cases and also the " self control speech". It's worth to do it as a lowest priority thing because the benefits are neat. The event system can respawn anything that is lost in a gamey way, satchel courrier, new entities for an empty place, even detect a looted quest POI and restock just the boss loot. Endless stuff.

 

Seems to be a delicate subject, so I'd prefer to ask again in a few months.

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6 minutes ago, RhinoW said:

I'm waiting for zombies to be able to climb ledges (some jump and grab onto the ledge even higher).

the last thing we need is feral zombies moving around like WWZ zombies!

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I'm curious... Regarding the new bookshelves, is the plan to replace all the old A18 ones with these new models, or will they be reserved for specific POI's only?

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2 hours ago, Blake_ said:

The issue can be solved by coding in all the edge cases

As a developer myself all I can say is LOOOOOOL.

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7 hours ago, BobbyLee298 said:

@madmole if upgrading to Unreal Engine means the removal of the destructible ground/world. I wouldnt risk making that change for the 7 Days to Die title. The destructible world/1 meter building blocks and random world generation is what makes this game so enjoyable.

 

And the 1 meter block IMO is so much better then how rust and fallout does their bace building, it gives the player freedom to add more details with out the eyesore of a repetitive wall or shapes (you can quite literally make a house look like a house)

 

And last RWG this is why i have so many hours on this game, you can have unlimited amount of different worlds to explore. Repeatability of this game is endless. Every world is different and unique

 

If you get rid of one of these (destructible worlds/1 meter blocks or RWG). Please make it a different title as that strays too far from 7 days to die unique gameplay that people know and love. Im sure you know this but some AAA developers dont and when they release a sequel it fails, all because they got rid of the few things that made that game unique

 

can you please reply to this even with the simplest answer, id just wana get a clue to the future

 

Back to A19 talk

My reply does not dictate the future.

I disagree, Fallout's building system can make super awesome bases that are 500x better looking than what we have. 1 meter thick walls are pretty horrible to look at and the restriction of 1 model per meter kills immersion.

 

No Voxels doesn't mean no random gen.

 

Switching to Unreal doesn't mean no voxels. You can get voxel farm for unreal or we could port our code.

 

We can probably fix the limit of only one block per meter, then we could make thin walls and more realistic looking POis, bases, clutter, etc.

Anyhow at our current pace, (one game in 8 years) 7 days 2 is at least 18 years away. We're committed to two other games first, 8 years per game plus two year of dev for 7d2d2 alpha 1 puts that 18 years away. SO whatever we say now isn't reliable :)

BTW, It won't take that long I don't think, but 7 days 2 isn't even a design document yet. We have 1 to finish, and 2 other games that at least need to be in alpha and one done probably before any movement on a sequel can happen.

I know some people think 7 days has "must have" features. What those are, is very subjective. I know that my vote would probably be RWG with fully destroyable world and tower defense, and RPG. Those are my must haves. That doesn't mean voxels though. It could just be models with physics by then. The need for voxels is diminishing as draw calls get cheaper and hardware improves. At the end of the day a voxel is just a mesh on a grid sharing a texture atlas. We area already only a partial voxel game anyway. Remove the limits and have all the fun part I say.
 

9 hours ago, DaVegaNL said:

Where's Roland btw? Is he on vacation? Or on math-camp?

He probably has forum PTSD.

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10 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

The event system can respawn anything that is lost in a gamey way, satchel courrier, new entities for an empty place, even detect a looted quest POI and restock just the boss loot. Endless stuff.

wait! so you propose that the shotgun messiah factory would be repopulated with zombies by the event system AND restock just the boss loot.

 

so you spend all the time to clear the shotgun messiah factory for your quest and only get the end loot??????

 

that sounds like a waaaaayyyy worse "fix" than the "problem" of some min-maxxers double looting.

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6 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:

As a developer myself all I can say is LOOOOOOL.

There are WAY less edge cases than those of a common Skyrim dragon. No need to lol too hard.

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3 minutes ago, madmole said:

My reply does not dictate the future.

I disagree, Fallout's building system can make super awesome bases that are 500x better looking than what we have. 1 meter thick walls are pretty horrible to look at and the restriction of 1 model per meter kills immersion.

 

No Voxels doesn't mean no random gen.

 

Switching to Unreal doesn't mean no voxels. You can get voxel farm for unreal or we could port our code.

 

We can probably fix the limit of only one block per meter, then we could make thin walls and more realistic looking POis, bases, clutter, etc.

Anyhow at our current pace, (one game in 8 years) 7 days 2 is at least 18 years away. We're committed to two other games first, 8 years per game plus two year of dev for 7d2d2 alpha 1 puts that 18 years away. SO whatever we say now isn't reliable :)

BTW, It won't take that long I don't think, but 7 days 2 isn't even a design document yet. We have 1 to finish, and 2 other games that at least need to be in alpha and one done probably before any movement on a sequel can happen.

I know some people think 7 days has "must have" features. What those are, is very subjective. I know that my vote would probably be RWG with fully destroyable world and tower defense, and RPG. Those are my must haves. That doesn't mean voxels though. It could just be models with physics by then. The need for voxels is diminishing as draw calls get cheaper and hardware improves. At the end of the day a voxel is just a mesh on a grid sharing a texture atlas. We area already only a partial voxel game anyway. Remove the limits and have all the fun part I say.
 

He probably has forum PTSD.

I look forward to 7d2d2 as my early retirement present.  Thank you Madmole! :)

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1 minute ago, katarynna said:

wait! so you propose that the shotgun messiah factory would be repopulated with zombies by the event system AND restock just the boss loot.

 

so you spend all the time to clear the shotgun messiah factory for your quest and only get the end loot??????

 

that sounds like a waaaaayyyy worse "fix" than the "problem" of some min-maxxers double looting.

Or not. Restock it all, what does it matter as long as we don't get double rainbows ? 

 

Imma run away now that I've opened a can of worms. Tasty beefy ones by the looks of it.

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4 minutes ago, madmole said:

<snipped for space>

I think the sequel is in development right now. ;)

 

 

 

(Too soon? Sometimes in bad times you just gotta laugh.)

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2 hours ago, meganoth said:

Another important reason is that it doesn't matter much whether you double-loot or not. Mostly quests are in towns and instead of double-looting you could just as well loot the neighboring house.

In MP towns are often completely looted but then double-looting is not possible anyway because the quest house is looted already. New pristine houses can always be generated by accepting quests.

 

So the problem is insubstantial, the solution not easy --> move on, there are bigger fishes tor fry

Pretty much. Only OCD min maxers would bother. It isn't about "winning" it is about the quality of the experience and adapting to what happens. When you are so fixated on looting that super chest twice in 20 minutes and not concerned about building a toilet for RPG purposes, or pretending your morale is down and fixing it with a coat of paint and planting some flowers just to look at, then you are lost to the numbers and are no longer a free being with free will just enjoying the game, but a slave to the loot rolls.

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2 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Or not. Restock it all, what does it matter as long as we don't get double rainbows ? 

 

Imma run away now that I've opened a can of worms. Tasty beefy ones by the looks of it.

lol not trying to chase you away.

 

when someone proposes an idea i find interesting, i just naturally think about whether it would really work and what would it break. like i said, i think your idea would work fine for single player and coop. but i think it would break the quest system on multiplayer.

 

anything that breaks of course has possible fixes. i just don't think there would be a simple fix for your idea for multiplayer, and i'm not sure tfp want to "reinvent the wheel" to fix something that is really only a small issue affecting a small number of people.

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18 minutes ago, morggin said:

or give us a way to construct a Can of Peas.

Heck yea! Grow your own peas, cook 'em and can 'em. For the devoted chef, that sounds like a great addition!

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41 minutes ago, Roland said:

Making nerdpoling only possible with wood frame blocks and also allowing zombies to climb up them would be a win in my book. :)

Hey Stranger!  Hope you are doing well! 😅

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Just now, katarynna said:

lol not trying to chase you away.

 

when someone proposes an idea i find interesting, i just naturally think about whether it would really work and what would it break. like i said, i think your idea would work fine for single player and coop. but i think it would break the quest system on multiplayer.

 

anything that breaks of course has possible fixes. i just don't think there would be a simple fix for your idea for multiplayer, and i'm not sure tfp want to "reinvent the wheel" to fix something that is really only a small issue affecting a small number of people.

I agree that it is a tiny "nice to have if done right but tons of work" matter. But goddamn, it all started as a simple filthy question. Y'all just had to clean it up like a "bullet type" question. #bringpoopback

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On 7/25/2020 at 11:06 AM, Jost Amman said:

That's probably because of your party-combined game stage?

 

But to be honest I too noticed a slight change of luck in A19 b173.

I was 1 km or so away... so i don´t think GS stacked.

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2 hours ago, beHypE said:

Since the nerdpoling discussion seems to run dry, what do you guys think about the stone/iron/steel tool balance ? General Discussion has several topics on the subject, consensus being the transition from stone to iron and from iron to steel is a difficult one. 

 

Honestly I feel it comes down to the difficulty of balancing TxQ6 vs T(x+)Q1. If you have a Q6 stone axe, the switch to a Q1 iron pickaxe is just bad for many reasons :

- stamina-drain / food usage (yes, I know, ergonomic grip + mods + coffee, point being it's a hassle and quite an investment for a very meager return)

- repair cost (1 stone vs 1 repair kit)

- number of mod slots

- the stone axe actually merges the use cases of an iron pickaxe and an iron fireaxe in one tool. And inventory/toolbet space is precious...

 

One possible solution could be to tie the maximum quality to the tier of the tool. Especially for stone tools, the transition to iron would be smoother if you couldn't ever find a stone axe higher than Q3 or Q4. It would both cap the number of mod slots on the item, while also directly reducing the maximum block damage you can find, thus making iron Q1 de facto more attractive in comparison. Same argument can be made for steel.

 

I know you don't have to switch from your Q6 stone axe to a Q1 iron pickaxe. But how fun is it when you finally unlock the iron age and realise there's another soft gate - basically one that forces you to wait until those iron tools become an undisputable upgrade ? I know @madmole likes consistency, but this is one of those edge cases where it actually is detrimental to meaningful and enjoyable progression.

No it is intentionally designed to *possibly* be better in some use cases so there is some decision making for the player to do. Why should a FAULTY iron tool always be better than the best quality stone axe in every situation/stat? If sex rex/stews isn't your investment than clearly the stone axe is for you, but to an aspiring miner who's getting cooking and mining/sex rex then for him the iron could be better. Then counter balance with number of mod slots makes the decision even more interesting. I'm still wearing my purple cloth hood at level 50 something because I have 4 mods installed and I don't want to give one up.

1 hour ago, Krows said:

 

Loving these new super foods; I can focus on feeding my character for most of the day with one meal. Keeping my eyes open for the components is well worth it for these items. However, 3 out of 4 of these meals require a Can of Peas. Whether this was an intentional bottle neck or not, I'm finding in the current A19 playthrough the contributing factor to crafting any of these is if I've found any Peas; I'm stocked on all the other components for Gumbo Stew, Shepard's Pie and Tuna Fish Gravy on Toast.

 

If this was meant to be the case, carry on; but, if you're looking for input, maybe increasing the chance for Peas at Vending Stations / Food Drops for higher-level GS would put more super foods on the table.

I went with realism on the recipe, but I think that it helps to have some bottlenecks to the amount of super foods you can craft.

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As opposed to trying to code all those edge cases, and as opposed to just letting POIs reset, I think it might be worth revisiting once bandits are in the game.
You could have it so that all POIs that are mission-capable, are also inhabitable by bandits. You do a mission, potentially destroying the entire POI if you want, it gets removed from mission possibilities by the trader and gets added to the list of POIs that can be taken over by bandits. Once taken over, that POI gets rebuilt by the bandits. At that point, either bandits eventually move out and it becomes a missionable again, or if they are still there, it could be a Raid Bandit Camp mission.

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1 hour ago, Onarr said:

@madmole  , is there any plan on making spikes, barbed wire and mines give XP for kills? Perhaps locked behind perk like INT does? I have some ideas for defence maximizing the effect of mines and pitfall traps.

Just mines, spikes are too easy and can create 1000's of kills for every little effort.

1 hour ago, Roland said:

Making nerdpoling only possible with wood frame blocks and also allowing zombies to climb up them would be a win in my book. :)

How else is it possible?

1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said:

I personally see no issues with adding some SI limits to all types of frames, including wood frames of course. Maybe 10-15 blocks or so. This would still allow the convenience of building with nerdpoles while hopefully limiting the amount of POI's that players can scale up to. Adding some sort of lip or overhang (such as with poles) against any lower POI's could fix this though, if it suits the POI in question. 

 

It sounds interesting, but I'd have to see [the junk drone performing this task] in person before I make a final opinion on this one. :)

Type in DM, press G, enjoy. Same thing.

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Small things noticed...

 

20200730171126-1.jpg

 

Crushed cars in the car park ?

 

Trader Joels had Trader Jen in there... ?

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59 minutes ago, morggin said:

or give us a way to construct a Can of Peas.

You can. You put money in the traders palm, vending machine slot, or press e to activate loot containers. Boom construction complete. Sorry no crafting of canned pre war foods except sham. because sham isn't really food now is it?

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