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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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And for some reasons, critical hits too OP for my opinion

Max critical chance might be 7.5 or 10%

 

Blow up zombies flesh it's cool, but this ability looking better on close range weapons, like knife, machete, shovel (yeah! it's OP weapon!), or steel knuckles

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3 minutes ago, Onarr said:

Yeah but try to use this argument when you want to kill a bear. Oh it will come to you, no problem. Well thats the thing I would like to avoid you know? And as Str guy I do not have much ranged options.

 

Is there anything more pathetic than a STR player complaining about his weak shotgun? 😆

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1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

yeah ill be fine with Q6 combat shotgun 200HP and kickass armor. The shotgun doing no damage on range is stupid. Why not use falloff damage for it instead? 5m full dmg, 5-10m 75% dmg 10-15 50% dmg

1 minute ago, meganoth said:

 

 

Is there anything more pathetic than a STR player complaining about his weak shotgun? 😆

I almost never use my shotgun. Only for instances when I need to kill something from range. Even large lvl 5 PoI room I go in melee with moonshine. Thats why I was so suprised I spent almost half my ammo on trying to kill Princess from top of the hole. Like WTF? Until now I never realized I did no dmg at all. I just though they buffed her HP.

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4 minutes ago, Onarr said:

yeah ill be fine with Q6 combat shotgun 200HP and kickass armor. The shotgun doing no damage on range is stupid. Why not use falloff damage for it instead? 5m full dmg, 5-10m 75% dmg 10-15 50% dmg

Once you put points into the shotgun perk you'll be decapitating their heads a good portion of the time. I've hunted bears in A19 before with a level 2 or 3 pump shotgun (and on foot), about 130 health, and with subpar armor, and even with only 3 points into Shotgun Messiah I was taking off their heads about one in every five shots.

 

Honestly, if shotguns had more range, they'd just outclass every other gun. If you're so worried about bears, carry a sniper rifle or a marksman rifle with you. Even unperked they can take down bears with ease, since you're at a distance. Keep it in your vehicle exclusively for hunting; that's what I always do as a shotgun build, since the pellets end up eviscerating the carcass anyway.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Onarr said:

 

I almost never use my shotgun. Only for instances when I need to kill something from range. Even large lvl 5 PoI room I go in melee with moonshine. Thats why I was so suprised I spent almost half my ammo on trying to kill Princess from top of the hole. Like WTF? Until now I never realized I did no dmg at all. I just though they buffed her HP.

 

I think all NPCs in the game have telltale signs they are getting hit. The absence of those signs should have been a hint.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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2 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Once you put points into the shotgun perk you'll be decapitating their heads a good portion of the time. I've hunted bears in A19 before with a level 2 or 3 pump shotgun (and on foot), about 130 health, and with subpar armor, and even with only 3 points into Shotgun Messiah I was taking off their heads about one in every five shots.

 

Honestly, if shotguns had more range, they'd just outclass every other gun. If you're so worried about bears, carry a sniper rifle or a marksman rifle with you. Even unperked they can take down bears with ease, since you're at a distance. Keep it in your vehicle exclusively for hunting; that's what I always do as a shotgun build, since the pellets end up eviscerating the carcass anyway.

Personally I believe shotgun are way OP in this game and have a bit too much range. But that just my opinion. 

Ill still use it if it fits a build I’m doing but if I’m building something else it (which I usually am) the shotgun won’t be used. And I do just fine without it. 

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Just now, Yopo said:

Personally I believe shotgun are way OP in this game and have a bit too much range. But that just my opinion. 

Ill still use it if it fits a build I’m doing but if I’m building something else it (which I usually am) the shotgun won’t be used. And I do just fine without it. 

I think the current range is fine, that being 4-5 blocks for maximum effectiveness. I'm pretty sure the auto shotty has less range than the pump, but I could be incorrect about that.

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Bull. The density of the bone between the eye and the brain is thick enough to stop a .22 lr and there is allot more than just hide between the heart and the surface of the chest. Are you sure you aren't conflating .22 mag (rimfire or centerfire) with .22 lr?

 

Elephant skulls are just like basically all skulls, they are thin behind the eyes and by the ears.  A .22lr can punch through the thin part of a skull

 

And no, all videos I linked are .22lr.  .22lr can punch through steel, cast iron, wood, denim, car doors, flesh etc way, way better than people seem to think, just google ".22lr Penetration test" and you'll find hundreds of videos of people shooting just about anything you can think of with a .22

 

People are probably getting tired of off topic posts about elephants though.

 

 

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

The issue is that the IRL weakness of the shotgun isn't really an issue in 7 Days to Die -- namely, the weight and bulk of shotgun ammunition, and the fact of reloading the pump shotgun goes way too quickly because they don't simulate the tube, it's always just an animation of loading only 2 rounds and you're fully topped off.

 

So if you're not hindered by the weight and bulk of the ammo, and you reload it basically instantly compared to IRL, of course the shotgun is going to be god tier.

 

There is a reason a lot of guys when pressed would take something like an Remington 870 or Mossberg 590 in those "If you only had 1 gun" videos.

 

But it's incredibly jarring to shoot at a zombie and have nothing happen at all because he's just barely beyond some arbitrary range limit.  And not only is there a limit but it's also hard to tell when a zombie is within that limit or not.  I'd be satisfied with damage fall off, and I understand that a realistic simulation of a shotgun would indeed make it the best weapon in almost every videogame, because almost every videogame fight happens within 100 feet unless you're playing ARMA or something.

Edited by Vechs (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

On the other hand damage fall off means you never find out that you are shooting that gun at the wrong range and wasting ammo. The same happens now in melee, I'm never really sure I'm hitting the zombies correctly because a glancing hit does make them react too. Someone who doesn't know about glancing hits might get the impression that melee is totally useless because he needs 12 hits for a basic zombie, never realizing that most of his hits just make minimal damage.

 

Edited by meganoth (see edit history)

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I get so much insight just into where the game is going by occasionally skimming through here for the dev posts. :)

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Posted (edited)

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

On the other hand damage fall off means you never find out that you are shooting that gun at the wrong range and wasting ammo. The same happens now in melee, I'm never really sure I'm hitting the zombies correctly because a glancing hit does make them react too. Someone who doesn't know about glancing hits might get the impression that melee is totally useless because he needs 12 hits for a basic zombie, never realizing that most of his hits just make minimal damage.

 

how is doing damage wasting ammo? Not doing damage is wasting ammo, which is what happens now. Falloff damage is how it is done in majority FPS games, why not use a best practice that stood the test of time? Its also logical, so avarage player understands, that if he shoots from far away, it might not do as much dmg. Also when you need 2 headshots instead of normal 1 they will quickly catch on. Shotguns not doing damage after very short range is ridiculous. 

Edited by Onarr (see edit history)

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8 minutes ago, Onarr said:

 

how is doing damage wasting ammo? Not doing damage is wasting ammo, which is what happens now. Falloff damage is how it is done in majority FPS games, why not use a best practice that stood the test of time? Shotguns not doing damage after very short range is ridiculous. 

Pretty sure not doing damage is just gonna let that ammo pile up in your inventory so it’s actually saving ammo rather than wasting ammo. 

Heres another idea. How about we leave those annoying real world fall off range damage statistics in the real world and not bring them into the relaxing world of games. 

Also if shot gun arnt doing the damage you want at range, have you tried getting closer to your target to get that damage 

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3 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I just don't like the dangerous mentality people have that .22lr are just bb guns lol. You could do a LOT of damage really quickly with a .22lr even at long range

+.22

 

My parents had some neighbors just down the road who had to talk to some other neighbors because the side of their house was getting bullet holes in it.  Their response was "But it's just a .22"

 

Idiots.

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1 hour ago, Onarr said:

Not doing damage is wasting ammo, which is what happens now. Falloff damage is how it is done in majority FPS games, why not use a best practice that stood the test of time? Its also logical, so avarage player understands, that if he shoots from far away, it might not do as much dmg.

All the guns use falloff damage. Even the journal entry points that out.

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5 hours ago, madmole said:

Ahh but you will, 7 Days 2 my friend.

Whats the release date?  
 

;)

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34 minutes ago, Gazz said:

All the guns use falloff damage. Even the journal entry points that out.

Are you sure?  I set up a gun range at my base and measured out the blocks, and put log blocks as targets to try and figure out what the max range of "5" actually meant.  It was from these tests that I figured out it was 10 blocks.  The pump shotgun I had didn't even do 1 point of damage to the log block on the 11th row (no repairs needed on it), but would readily kill the block on the 10th row.

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1 hour ago, Vechs said:

Are you sure?  I set up a gun range at my base and measured out the blocks, and put log blocks as targets to try and figure out what the max range of "5" actually meant.  It was from these tests that I figured out it was 10 blocks.  The pump shotgun I had didn't even do 1 point of damage to the log block on the 11th row (no repairs needed on it), but would readily kill the block on the 10th row.

Regular shotgun shells have a MaxRange of 10, with DamageFalloffRange set to 5. So, max damage out to 5 blocks, after 10 blocks, no damage. Also remember they do extra damage to wood, especially slugs and breaching rounds.

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5 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Once you put points into the shotgun perk you'll be decapitating their heads a good portion of the time. I've hunted bears in A19 before with a level 2 or 3 pump shotgun (and on foot), about 130 health, and with subpar armor, and even with only 3 points into Shotgun Messiah I was taking off their heads about one in every five shots.

 

Honestly, if shotguns had more range, they'd just outclass every other gun. If you're so worried about bears, carry a sniper rifle or a marksman rifle with you. Even unperked they can take down bears with ease, since you're at a distance. Keep it in your vehicle exclusively for hunting; that's what I always do as a shotgun build, since the pellets end up eviscerating the carcass anyway.

You don't even need points into boomstick, nor a q6 shotgun; hell, you could do that with a level 1 pump shotgun lol. I still say shotguns need more nerfing, not increasing their range lol. But yeah what you said, added you don't need to perk into something to use it. Shotguns are ridiculous as it is xD

 

By the way shotguns shouldn't be blowing through carcasses anymore, I think that got fixed

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Recap of my wolf/zdog encounters so far. It's ~11pm Day 10. Pregen02, 90m days, Adventurer, no quests (fresh install of b173).

 

1) Day 3 around dinner time about a hundred meters from the trader got jumped by a wolf. He came in from the side, out of the trees, no way to have seen him, by the time he made a noise and I turned he was already biting. Infected, abrasion, sprained leg, ~30 health. Spent the next day and a half searching for Honey &/or Antibiotics. Lucked into a Clinic in the middle of nowhere at 21:00 day 4, had to come back on day 5 to finish clearing. It had 1 antibiotic.

 

2) Day 5 night time 3 wolfs. Was in my base, they broke through upgraded wooden door (scrap metal patches lvl) pretty quick, but base has a murder hole, so dropped arrows on them, took quite a while but finally got all three. There was another wolf near base in the morning, assuming he was part of the night horde, but not sure.

 

3) Day 7 morning, at traders to pick up cooked glue, went back out the gates and a zdog horde just appeared out of thin air right beside me.

## I mean all 6 or 7 were just clustered together on the road beside me. Had to have just spawned in as I had time to turn around, open up the trader door, go inside and close it without even one getting inside. Also was weird because only a couple aggro'd on me, the others ran off. I had to shoot them to get them to come back.

 

4) Day 8 morning. See a wolf just outside the church a couple hundred meters from the trader.

 

5) Day 10 midmorning. At a new city dropping off supplies at what will be a base, come out to minibike for boxes, there's a wolf 30m away.

 

No idea if that's all intended or not. Worth noting that other than the last one, all have been within a fairly small area.

 

Should also mention that I've killed two stags in basically the same 50m area, a day apart. Site is beside the gravel road that goes by the strip club on the way to the new city; guessing about half a klick from my first base.

 

Also might be a factor; built a Bike morning of day 4, rode around most of the day searching for Honey, found a new city & wound up 2+ks from base, so maybe being away fom Base chunks reset things? Built a Minibike day 6, traveled a bit to loot scattered pois as almost all of the city the trader quest took me to is in the snow. Have made 2 trips to new city a couple klicks away.

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Posted (edited)

It's the third time I start a new world after each patch and for the life of me I can't find ANY workstation blueprints inside the broken ones (which btw are 99%).

I've looted dozens of them but no luck... this begs a question : have the blueprints been removed inside broken workstations? :mmph:

 

Edit: and the traders don't sell them anymore either apparently. So how is one supposed to craft stuff without heavily specializing into INT??

Edited by Jost Amman (see edit history)

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18 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

It's the third time I start a new world after each patch and for the life of me I can't find ANY workstation blueprints inside the broken ones (which btw are 99%).

I've looted dozens of them but no luck... this begs a question : have the blueprints been removed inside broken workstations? :mmph:

 

Edit: and the traders don't sell them anymore either apparently. So how is one supposed to craft stuff without heavily specializing into INT??

Must just be bad RNG. They are still in the loot for the broken stations and traders.

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23 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

It's the third time I start a new world after each patch and for the life of me I can't find ANY workstation blueprints inside the broken ones (which btw are 99%).

I've looted dozens of them but no luck... this begs a question : have the blueprints been removed inside broken workstations? :mmph:

 

Edit: and the traders don't sell them anymore either apparently. So how is one supposed to craft stuff without heavily specializing into INT??

 

Madmole mentioned nerfing them on the forum a week or two back. As for how you can craft them without int . . .buy what you need or spec into int! Int is already questionable enough spot as is, letting every class have access to it's main feature kinda defeats the purpose. It would be like if you could find a book that granted you full Miner 69 stacks

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Perlin_Worm said:

The Blunderbuss and it’s generic gunpowder ammo are perfect as implemented in a19. Props! Why do we need yet another tier of firearms with these pipe guns? What gap does it fill? 
 

Early level is mostly about melee and it is refreshing. IMO, don’t mess with a winning formula.

 

Increasing more tiers and expanding the loot tables will put the game in the position where many will desire to start a new map before ever seeing the highest tier weapons.

 

Don't really know to be fair. I hope they will drastically reduce the amount of ammo you can find, because if you're supposed to carry a pipe gun from the very first days and ammo is still as abundant, playing with the melee weapons will just get another significant nerf.

 

9 hours ago, JordanHameski said:

from patch to patch i got the same situation, late game stage zombies too weak.

 

What if zombies HP and damage increased with game stage?

 

e.g.

Stage - HP | Damage

Player is under 5 level - 100% | 100%

First GS - 125% | 100%

Second GS - 150% | 175%

Third GS - 175% | 350%

Fourth GS - 200% | 500%

Without looking at the numbers, I agree something needs to be done in regards to ramping up the difficulty over time. The "basic" zombies are way too easy for way too long (past the first few days), and once ferals start appearing in the world you're swimming in guns/ammo and can just empty the clip on them without much worries either. If the progression of the loot is such a strong concern, the difficulty needs to scale properly in time, and not have as many treshholds. Adding pipe guns will only make the early-mid game easier.

Edited by beHypE (see edit history)

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11 hours ago, Perlin_Worm said:

The Blunderbuss and it’s generic gunpowder ammo are perfect as implemented in a19. Props! Why do we need yet another tier of firearms with these pipe guns? What gap does it fill? 
 

Early level is mostly about melee and it is refreshing. IMO, don’t mess with a winning formula.

 

Increasing more tiers and expanding the loot tables will put the game in the position where many will desire to start a new map before ever seeing the highest tier weapons.

I think having a pipe gun for each branch would help starting players pick a tree earlier. Currently i cant craft a pistol till i get pistol parts, but i might be more interested in speccing into pistols earlier if i can craft a shoddy flintlock pistol, and speccing weapons early means less points spent in questing perks or survival perks.

 

I like the idea of stretching out the blunderbuss stage, i enjoy having 3 blunderbusses on my toolbar, id like to try out a musket and flintlock pistol too. Melee is useful for a long time still, pipe weapons are a liability when dealing with large numbers.

I think they need to tune down the amount of ammo we get by a LOT. Traders offer full stacks of shotgun ammo on t1 quests, i have more shotgun ammo on my current game than blunderbuss ammo, and the trader was selling a pump action for 800 dukes, so it was kind of a no brainer, my blunderbusses are just there for aesthetics.

Id like to see more gunpowder in loot and less ammo even if it is unrealistic. gunpowder means you need to unlock a bunch of things before really being able to get your regular ammo, but having a ton of GP, no workbench and a couple of pipe weapons, making blackpowder ammo seems like a tempting choice.

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