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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


madmole

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ROTFL!! Guys, you need to read this!

I was checking the original Kickstarter page for 7D2D and I was curious about what comments were posted at the time.

 

Well, you'll never believe it but there's a couple of original backers that posted in 2020!! (last post was from 2013!!!)

I guess they haven't been following the game development anymore since they write this:

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Maverick0023 Superbacker 3 months ago

This game is so far behind I forgot I even backed this thing, I was just going through KS to see what rewards I had and had not gotten and ran back into this.

Has anyone gotten communication since early last year from them? Pfft such BS.

Reported; can KS even do anything about this at this point?

...AND...

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Andrew Hall 4 months ago

THE SETTLER - Download the finished game for PC, Mac or Linux + Kickstarter Backer Badge

Estimated delivery: May 2014

 

I am still waiting for my key to a finished game that was est for 2014, its 2020 and still in alpha. This needs investigations as they clearly have not worked on this game with the half a million like they said they would do. I understand things can happen that pushes the game back but 6 years past its release date???

:bounce:

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SO I can now confirm that lvl 3 deep cuts is enough to slow the biker zombie on nightmare speed, never even got a hit in. I did it with lvl 1 padded armor on, can't guarantee the same results with leather cause the movement is slower.

 

It is day 10 and I have found 1 mega crush, 0 running shoes, 0 college jackets on 25% loot 50 day respawns, none of these have been in the trader. So if I had to depend on those things to stay alive I'd be dead already.

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2 minutes ago, OzzFreak said:

whats with the enimies, (can't call them zombies anymore, i guess infected or mutant ) being able to jump like a friggin gazelle? they walk around barly moving get to the top of a ramp and BOOM i'm Micheal F'n Jordan...

I call them zambies...or just Steve...in some circles...Jazz Hand's Steve...😅

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My notes on 'balancing' across the firearms. Did most of what I'll lay out in a17 w a simple "m" word.

 

Starting point was to mimic real world. Damage, magazine sizes (could only get close due to %'s), reload-speed, RPM, ranges, recoil, stamina, Accuracy.

 

Example-A: AK-47 vs. AR10(Marksman=MR)

++Upped MR damage to around 150. Made AKs around 100. (rw AK-47s use 7.62x39 not the AR10/NATO 7.62x51, roughly 2/3rds the power)

-Set MR mag sizes to 5, 10, 20 for no-mod, mag+ mod, drum-mag. AK went 30, 40, 60. (could go 20-30-40, or 30-40-75. lots of rw choices)

-Adjusted AK reload speed up a bit (+~1sec) (rw AKs mag seating is slower than AR pattern)

-Adjusted RPM for MR to I think 250, left cyclic rate alone on AK, meant to ck but forgot.

-Changed Dropoff & Max ranges for both to 150m (as discussed 'range' isn't an issue in voxel world)(may be game engine reasons but 'rifles', imo, should be able to hit any zed we can see w full power. trying to mimic rw energy decrease Max would have to be many hundreds of meters)

-Upped recoil on the AK a bit. Meant to see if it was possible to have different recoils for hip vs. shoulder fired.

-Minor reduction to MR zoomed in stamina drain.

-Tightened Accuracy a bit on MR, opened it up a bit on AK.

 

Now of course I'm biased, but these simple xml tweaks really helped to differentiate the two imo.

The MR/Sniper was still a solid upgrade from a Hunting rifle, but small mag size until you had a mag-mod meant the AK would likely be prefered for early-mid-game heavy clearing/bm horde. But for a stealther the increased damage of the MR offset the early small mag size for poi clearing.

For late game horde defense the base build really influenced which one I used the most. If base was built with e-fencing a ways out and funneled zeds into a corridor then the MR was well suited for aimed shots. A more free for all base where zeds could come in close quickly and from multiple directions then the AK was in it's element. MR still had a role even in SP regardless of base design due to increased damage; use against demolishers/rad-cops.

 

Point being if you could simply apply all the rw pros & cons to all the firearms in 7dtd they would each naturally be different, some wouldn't change that much, but some would be quite a bit different than they are/were(not on a19 yet).

Take the M60. Should exhaust stamina very quickly when shoulder aimed, it's a long ~23 pound (plus 100rd ammo belt=6.6pounds) hunk of steel after all. Yet due to mass it's recoil should be less than an AK-47, which weighs in at ~8 pounds (even factoring in less powerful 7.62x39 cartridge). Big thing that could reduce the M60s being the 'best overall 'rifle'' would be a greater movement penalty; slower to swing around, so not as ideal for tight spaces.

 

Annoying nit to pick: add-on suppressors do not reduce damage.

 

Yes a sub-sonic 7.62x51 round compared to a full power round has dramatically less energy, it's only moving at ~1050 fps vs. ~2600 fps.

And yes, there are some firearms that have an integrated suppressor where it's non-suppressed sibling may have a bit more energy, but those aren't in the game.

Nor is sub-sonic ammo. Now if TFPs want to add in sub-sonic and then adjust noise lvls so that you'd need to use a suppressor -&- sub-sonic ammo for no-wakey-every-zed stealth kills, that'd be great imo. That'd really cement the bow/crossbows place as a stealth weapon until much later on when players had both cans & sub-s ammo.

 

Won't bore everyone with the rest. I'll just say that, other than shotgun ranges, everything else I tweaked towards rw pros&cons improved gameplay for me. One missing bit worth bringing up again is lack of select-fire for the SMG. That alone would, imo of course, really up it's game and allow it to fulfill both a crowd control, and aimed-fire/mini-sniper role in poi clearing.

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does anyone even bother going full into a Melle tree? every time I've played brawler I max out fortitude and brawler perk by level 18 and the zombies become a joke at warrior difficulty. like what exactly do some of you want? all weapons aren't meant to be viable or the same for every single situation. I would never expect fists to have the same damage capabilities as sledgehammer, club or even blades for obvious reasons. 

 

if you go out and loot you will find that intelligence tree is pointless, work stations are easy to find and the trader will be able to supply most of your needs. honestly I'm sorta at the point where I wouldn't mind if bandits got pushed back to alpha 21 and the entire loot, schematics and trader system got reworked.

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1 minute ago, Slingblade2040 said:

does anyone even bother going full into a Melle tree? every time I've played brawler I max out fortitude and brawler perk by level 18 and the zombies become a joke at warrior difficulty. like what exactly do some of you want? all weapons aren't meant to be viable or the same for every single situation. I would never expect fists to have the same damage capabilities as sledgehammer, club or even blades for obvious reasons. 

 

if you go out and loot you will find that intelligence tree is pointless, work stations are easy to find and the trader will be able to supply most of your needs. honestly I'm sorta at the point where I wouldn't mind if bandits got pushed back to alpha 21 and the entire loot, schematics and trader system got reworked.

thats if you play on full loot, i been playing 15% loot no respawn because hey in the real world we all don't have Magic Trash cans all over lol, i do see where your going its so easy to find stuff anymore, used to be hard to find stuff, 

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16 hours ago, CoolJ said:

 

I would hope that is idea anyway. They feel pretty balanced to me. I only ever get SexyT level one. It is all the class needs. Other melee weapons require more points into it than that. It's just a play style change. If you take advantage of all the class attributes when you can, there are distinct advantages to perking into any of them. Knives are fine.

 

I will say that if you think a full length shotgun with a choke only has a range of six meters, you need to actually shoot a shotgun. I know you want to keep the range down for balance reasons. However, six meters is laughable. My positively ancient Browning A12 patterns 13-16 inches with 00 high brass at twenty meters. Granted I had to pay a gunsmith to fit a proper choke. It was still way better than six meters even with the horrible adjustable thing they called a choke that came on the gun. I would say that there is no problem for them to go out to ten or eleven meters and they still won't be a rifle. Slugs being so short range in this game is a travesty. They wont replace rifles for long range because people that perk into rifles will still use rifles. It would just give strength characters the ability to switch to longer range round if they want to hit something farther away. Keep in mind that it will still cost an inventory slot to carry them and they are way too expensive to use them exclusively. Polymer is far more expensive than brass and paper. Keeping shotguns at such a low range for balance is not any different than making the rifles useless at close range for "balance". It is currently pointless to shoot at a circling vulture with a shotgun. Considering that the shotgun is the go to fouling weapon of choice, it seems kinda contrived.

 

Back when you didn't have a perk system supporting the use of specific weapons, maybe it made sense. I don't feel like the range penalty is warranted.

Yeah well I might have to strong arm Gazz, I made the same argument. The whole reason for the auto shotty to have a scope was so you could do a bit of hunting with slugs. The problem is in a voxel game range cannot be what it is in other games that have static worlds and if a shotgun had realistic ranges it would probably be the best gun for any situation.

Realism is only a useful guide for immersion, not for balance or game design.

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1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

ROTFL!! Guys, you need to read this!

I was checking the original Kickstarter page for 7D2D and I was curious about what comments were posted at the time.

 

Well, you'll never believe it but there's a couple of original backers that posted in 2020!! (last post was from 2013!!!)

I guess they haven't been following the game development anymore since they write this:

...AND...

:bounce:

Man oh man, they're saltier than the fries you find at a burger joint. 😛

9 minutes ago, madmole said:

Yeah well I might have to strong arm Gazz, I made the same argument. The whole reason for the auto shotty to have a scope was so you could do a bit of hunting with slugs. The problem is in a voxel game range cannot be what it is in other games that have static worlds and if a shotgun had realistic ranges it would probably be the best gun for any situation.

Realism is only a useful guide for immersion, not for balance or game design.

So you're saying we're not going to get a fully automatic rapid fire shotgun that fires homing rounds that can travel a good 50+ meters? Dawww. :(

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6 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Well, other games have used variations of RNG for class builds.  For example, many mmorpgs out there have critical hit builds that % based damage increases versus sustained damage output.  One could argue that those classes roles are not balanced but they sure are fun to play.  At least for me.

I could care less if it is balanced between attributes. If you ask me, that is actually a detrimental design philosophy. Making it fun and viable is my goal. It isn't a competition between perks and weapons, it is what makes you tick? What combination of stuff suits you? If you want it all you can have it all, but just not now. The perk tree as a whole produces a variety of cool builds that play different and provide different satisfying results. I'm still doing agility and am now doing 6x sneak damage at night with my bow, which is quite awesome. I actually inverted my play style, I used to quest all day with my strength build, and build at night, now this character does one little job at night and then enjoys building an entire day, because I do more damage at night and I can move around unseen.

6 hours ago, meganoth said:

Machine gunner being OP is relevant to the balance.

 

"useless" or "Almost rendered useless" is such a hyperbole sentence. Should I say now the knuckles are the best even though I know they are just the least best of them all 😉 ?

I have a friend who still recounts his turn as brawler in the previous game as great fun (and he isn't someone who would have fun with an ineffectual weapon). Did you ever try brawler together with beer or are you just theory-crafting with the stats?

 

I think brawlers are awesome, combined with beer and books they are better than ever. I had a ton of fun with my fort build in A18. Things got too hairy I pull out the m60 and AP rounds and rooms are cleared. Lets not forget you can't get infected using a brawler if you score the first punch to the face. Little things like that stack up in the grand scheme of things. Not fussing with infections is nice. I had so much regen I rarely used medicine.

3 hours ago, Aldranon said:

People argue about what melee weapon is best, but when the bandits come, it could be like that saying: "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight".  😁

 

I mean as GS grows, melee starts becoming obsolete.  I suppose if you don't mind dying or are extra careful, then you can use anything. 

Not even, I do T5's and nothing but melee on Warrior. Just use choke points like doors, or run to them smash a guy down, kite around, strafing swinging etc. Crack knees for knockdowns, etc. As long as you have stamina and power attacks you are in good shape. I only use guns when stamina reaches zero.

6 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I've been thinking about it, and really I think what a lot of the "problem" with balance at the moment is, is that there are no ranged enemies. Adding bandits with guns will DRASTICALLY change the balance of what weapons are good and add situations where you actually *need* to switch weapons.

 

Right now, the only range that matters is close range. The only enemy in the game that has a single ranged attack is the cop, and they still run to you. Not a single other enemy can damage you outside of melee range, so therefore, no other range matters. If you see a zombie a mile away, it's not a threat and it doesn't matter if you only have a shotgun, it will either come to you, or you ignore it. The shotgun is insane at close range and will churn the entire horde into paste, so you don't need any other weapon

 

Spears, shotguns, snipers, even the m60 etc will all be pretty heavily balanced against each other when there are ranged enemies. Being able to throw a spear currently is fun but not really that important, but throwing it at a guy with a gun who's shooting you will be a legit asset over the club

Yes bandits will be a game changer. Special infected with ranged attacks will be here before bandits though.

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HELLO 

 

ID LIKE TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT SERVERS THAT CHARGE MONEY FOR IN GAME ITEMS FOR PROFIT IS AGAINST POLICY. THESE SERVERS SEEM TO BE POPPING UP MORE THAN I CAN EVER REMEMBER AND I HAVE 18000+ HOURS IN THIS GAME. SO IF YOU SEE ONE OF THESE SERVERS THAT CHARGE MONEY FOR PAY TO WIN ITEMS ID SUGGEST NOT JOINING OR PLAYING ON THEM.https://imgur.com/a/UXiy1Fj

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1 hour ago, OzzFreak said:

whats with the enimies, (can't call them zombies anymore, i guess infected or mutant ) being able to jump like a friggin gazelle? they walk around barly moving get to the top of a ramp and BOOM i'm Micheal F'n Jordan...

I was watching dying light and they jump up on stuff and pull themselves up, it looked awesome. Able to get up 3 meter high obstacles no problem.

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1 minute ago, Grandpa Minion said:

HELLO 

 

ID LIKE TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT SERVERS THAT CHARGE MONEY FOR IN GAME ITEMS FOR PROFIT IS AGAINST POLICY. THESE SERVERS SEEM TO BE POPPING UP MORE THAN I CAN EVER REMEMBER AND I HAVE 18000+ HOURS IN THIS GAME. SO IF YOU SEE ONE OF THESE SERVERS THAT CHARGE MONEY FOR PAY TO WIN ITEMS ID SUGGEST NOT JOINING OR PLAYING ON THEM.https://imgur.com/a/UXiy1Fj

And I'd like to remind you to stay on topic. If people are dumb enough to risk getting sued or pay money to the trolls doing that, its on them but it doesn't belong in this thread.

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3 minutes ago, madmole said:

And I'd like to remind you to stay on topic. If people are dumb enough to risk getting sued or pay money to the trolls doing that, its on them but it doesn't belong in this thread.

Hey MM, whats the latest on the stable build.  Any particular MF's that are being a pain in the rear?

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24 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Man oh man, they're saltier than the fries you find at a burger joint. 😛

So you're saying we're not going to get a fully automatic rapid fire shotgun that fires homing rounds that can travel a good 50+ meters? Dawww. :(

i want a auto shotgun with a Minigun barrel, A 8x8 scope, 2 tires!, a Laser, a Gauss cannon!, a Double barrel shotgun on the bottom!, a glass bottle! and corn bread! 

6 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Hey MM, whats the latest on the stable build.  Any particular MF's that are being a pain in the rear?

oh he might be me!

 

 

 

*Auto Sable responses *

 

"when it is done"

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1 minute ago, madmole said:

I could care less if it is balanced between attributes. If you ask me, that is actually a detrimental design philosophy. Making it fun and viable is my goal. It isn't a competition between perks and weapons, it is what makes you tick? What combination of stuff suits you? If you want it all you can have it all, but just not now. The perk tree as a whole produces a variety of cool builds that play different and provide different satisfying results. I'm still doing agility and am now doing 6x sneak damage at night with my bow, which is quite awesome. I actually inverted my play style, I used to quest all day with my strength build, and build at night, now this character does one little job at night and then enjoys building an entire day, because I do more damage at night and I can move around unseen.

Since I was the one they were replying to with the comment you quoted, I'll lay out why I see it as an issue as best I can. Having a perk tree set up so that from go it relies on having not bad - good loot rng for it's perks to have any use is a recipe for having that tree be a frustrating mess when rng decides for what ever reason "Nope, not going to drop that item you're searching so desperately for." despite having the perked ability to build it from the end of the tutorial quest and no other option that makes use of the perk. That's Int till GS hits iron age from what I've seen.

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33 minutes ago, madmole said:

Special infected with ranged attacks will be here before bandits though.

 

Aw yes! Infected Porcupine monster that shoots quills?! I don't know what the official stance on "lore" is, but I think the idea of zombified mutant animals is cooler than just zombies that use guns for whatever reason.

 

Tactical Assault Helicopter Hawk™ incoming with it's long range feather attack that makes no sense but works anyway

 

 

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