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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


madmole

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1 hour ago, Jay_ombie said:

Digging quests are great and a fun way to collect Clay I find.

 

 

What about allowing us to equip on Rifles a bayonet ?... this would then act as a spear when not fired for close quarters and give that extra plus for rifle users.

There is no code for that and it just muddies the water between melee and ranged. Its just another mechanic that isn't needed. I'll do a perception build sometime and then I'm sure I can figure out a way to make them work.

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5 minutes ago, madmole said:

We have enough options I don't think it is needed really.  Fallout wasn't a survival game when it shipped and my guess is they saw the success of us and Rust, Day Z, etc, and decided to toss survival in. Then that didn't work so they thought the magic secret sauce must be MP so they made Fallout 76. The difference is they were trying to make the game something it wasn't, to appeal to a wider fan base. We are making the game what it is, and to appeal to us internally. If we think a system isn't very good we improve it. Of course there is always some guy who thinks the hacked in quick version was better. We don't. That is the draw back with early access is some players get married to unfinished systems that we put in as a placeholder, or its missing the polish features we wanted to do but didn't have the time, etc. But as we polish for gold that always makes a few haters, but generally we make more fans.

 

That's a very good point.  More power to you guys for trying to find that magic blend.  It certainly isnt easy and without its share of critics...

 

Edit: Props to you guys for trying to innovate versus settling for something already out there...

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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27 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

That is the complete inverse of how most firearms (outside of gyrojets/rockets which continue accelerating once they leave the barrel/tube due to their propellant being contained within the projectile itself instead of being held in the casing the projectile is fitted in) work.

hey i learned something new today :D

 

 

thank you!

Edited by Adam the Waster (see edit history)
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Hi! @faatal I've got some new ish info on performance.

It goes without saying, everything is fully reinstalled and Appdata 7dtd folder deleted. a19 b169

 

Known stuff: Console Warnings result in bumbs in performance. When those console warnings are in the same second the bumb is huge and freezes the screen.

 

List of ALL the console warnings that generate the bumbs:

 

1. Path node warning. Happens close POIS with extremely high elevation from the floor AND with a generated road. Road has to be walkable without jumping.(POI example in the screenshot). FPS IMPACT: HIGH (Complete freeze for a few seconds).

Spoiler

NEWPOI_02.thumb.jpg.fb34eb14b5f23044f5c481829a5c5e04.jpg20200722172417_1.thumb.jpg.218e0e7145b15aa964ea7c6aab72d713.jpg

 

 

2. Console warning "Calling Animator GotoState Synchronize layer" and falling off the world entities (and dropped items) FPS IMPACT: 15-40fps on minimum systems.

 

Spoiler

20200722171701_1.thumb.jpg.a59f31211cb0ecdea4532ae2dc235534.jpg20200722200531_1.thumb.jpg.857322109e2245f8b424f993a0b07bec.jpg20200722201307_1.thumb.jpg.d9e8f2c4b65f4f89cf187d569f67d635.jpg

Also, after changing resolution, 2 of those warnings pop up dropping performance to an otherwise smooth resolution downgrade  (+ INF  settings notifications at the same second didn't help a bit either):

Spoiler

20200722193709_1.thumb.jpg.64fa2fde8575ca74054b13924591fa5e.jpg

 

3. Console warning "Kinematic body only supports continuous collision detection" when entities ragdoll. Happened to me with Zds and animals. FPS IMPACT: 15-45fps on minimum systems.

Spoiler

20200721222755_1.thumb.jpg.b3d0323e13e59f6e2bc0248cbaf443c0.jpg20200721222831_1.thumb.jpg.76676a99b2fc879589f5d6028ca54a54.jpg

 

4. EVERYTHING that happens in the same second generates bumbs. Here are some examples:

 

-Sleeper spawns (as you can see in the picture one of them happens simultaneously  with another --> janitor+boe, resulting in a noticeable bumb of a few seconds (2-5 seconds depending on the place)

Spoiler

20200722113646_1.thumb.jpg.79edbe4e43bcf0812c58e4bf79fba143.jpg

 

-MUSIC!! Music code forces 3 notifications (and more) to happen simultaneously generating a bump in minimum systems:  in the picture, you can see INF messages that are the ones that give the bumps as they happen too close together in time (EXPLORATION track from NONE, together with fadeings and a SectionSelector notification). Too much INF. As they happen in the same second, performance drops. FPS IMPACT: 15-40 fps on minimum systems.

Spoiler

20200722193847_1.thumb.jpg.0e5064e465fe002e7988ea46aaf21228.jpg

 

 

-There can also be music ISSUES like in this picture, where a track stops playing altogether, generating a warning and therefore another fps drop. (15-40fps)

Spoiler

20200722172319_1.thumb.jpg.4f1dc928dd8a2d0692f3454198cac9df.jpg

 

AND music issue with INF notifications + synchronize layer warning = bumb bump:

Spoiler

20200722200555_1.thumb.jpg.cc8a128134ce258fa12bbaf128d1c303.jpg

More SCREENSHOTS of many of them together: (sleeper spawning within the same second + INF music notifications (also same second a bit before) + kinematic warning = bumb bumb bump.

Spoiler

20200722201328_1.thumb.jpg.3e56a1d13aaa586178e8168ace79d27b.jpg

 

 

POSSIBLE FIX: 

 

1-Console warnings: Whatever. Already talked about those. They hurt.

-Kynematic body warnings and Synchronize layer warnings : are they really THAT useful vs the performance hit they generate?

I mean, it affects EVERY single combat for kynematic. And the Sync one doesn't lag behind either. Actually, it does (pun).

 

2-Sleeper spawns and BIOME spawns and animal spawns: Every entity from every system in the game can never spawn simultaneously with another entity. The best case scenario should be a 2 SECOND delay for every sleeper spawn starting from the closest and maintaining current area triggers (btw they are nicely done). Also, sleeper spawns can never spawn at within the same second from a biome spawn, being Zd or animal. On top of that, a 2 second spawn from each other will not create bumbs. Just a constant small drop that goes unoticeable.

 

3- Music: I don't even know if there's something to fix there, it might be automatically started. Probably there should be a timer between INF notifications. The music warning about a missing track might be important? idk.

 

Here, I think you will need this reward after this is over:

Spoiler

20200722011447_1.thumb.jpg.e305440f538360bf8ead72411fd4750a.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)
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If you are going perception and want to melee you should get the wrench skill lel. 

 

Spears are not great, but wrench skill is very strong and can wreck @%$*#! with a power attack. 

 

The wrench suffers from the problem a lot of weapons and stuff have in the game, where you basically need to find one before you can make one, but at least finding an early crappy wrench is pretty easy.  An early forge works too. 

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2 hours ago, madmole said:

Yeah I would say 99% of the users would agree the new digging system is better. A, you can't exploit it, B the shrinking circle is helpful. Buy the perk to maximize its effectiveness. Before I'd end up with 5000 clay on some digs you just couldn't find it for x reason. Now it shrinks and I'm guaranteed to find it.

I've seen several buried treasure and/or buried supplies quests where the circle migrates each time it shrinks so the eventual chest location is outside the original circle. One time it was very noticeable because the slope the area was on meant I kept breaking through the surface. Final hole was at least 15 blocks from the original circle, SW I think. Surface looked a bit like a checkerboard with one corner where the original circle's center had been and the other corner where the final 1-meter-diameter circle and treasure box was.

 

Was originally dismayed to find treasure boxes were locked now but it makes sense and I've gotten over it.

54 minutes ago, madmole said:

There is no code for that and it just muddies the water between melee and ranged. Its just another mechanic that isn't needed. I'll do a perception build sometime and then I'm sure I can figure out a way to make them work.

I understand where you come from with that but I'd like a key to do a bayonet-stab or (for guns w/o bayonet) butt-stock bash as an option when you want a melee hit but don't want to switch weapons. Shoot, zombie goes down, starts getting back up, butt-stock bash to finish, move on. Sure, I can switch weapons and do it without that, but it'd be a nice touch if it were a possible thing.

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2 hours ago, madmole said:

Yeah I would say 99% of the users would agree the new digging system is better. A, you can't exploit it, B the shrinking circle is helpful. Buy the perk to maximize its effectiveness. Before I'd end up with 5000 clay on some digs you just couldn't find it for x reason. Now it shrinks and I'm guaranteed to find it.

It didn't feel like an exploit, like I said the vast majority of the effort put into getting it was simply getting there and that was enough effort to justify the rewards. It made sense to me that you could find the marker the way you did, as if there was a little beacon on the supplies box and the compass marker took the place of a little beepy homing device thing to find the closest spot to dig.

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1 hour ago, madmole said:

There is no code for that and it just muddies the water between melee and ranged. Its just another mechanic that isn't needed. I'll do a perception build sometime and then I'm sure I can figure out a way to make them work.

I think spears are close to where they need to be.  They are fantastic as a stealth melee weapon and if your aim is good they are ok in a fight too with throws.  Jabby jabby is pretty weak  so normally only after a throw to finish a zombie off.  Once the toolbelt is fixed so you can throw multiple spears and picking them up puts them back on your toolbelt (right now only 1 goes back to the toolbelt) spears should be in alright shape.  They'd  still need some help to compete with the best melee weapons but they're viable enough.


Rifles really only have penetration over everything else.  In practice their range and single shot damage just doesn't matter.  Especially with all the random decaps that other guns can get.  They can get the job done when played well but they are definitely not on the level of other guns, bows, or even junk turrets.  If they're going to compete as slower refire high damage per shot weapons then they need to straight up wreck tougher enemies IMO.

Explosives also feels kinda weird under perception.  Explosives are so strong they completely overshadow the weapons.  I kinda feel like there should be another stat that focuses on explosives and fire and mines and spike traps and etc and that baseline bombs should be nerfed a bit since even baseline explosives are stupid good and cheap.

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6 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

I think spears are close to where they need to be.  They are fantastic as a stealth melee weapon and if your aim is good they are ok in a fight too with throws.  Jabby jabby is pretty weak  so normally only after a throw to finish a zombie off.  Once the toolbelt is fixed so you can throw multiple spears and picking them up puts them back on your toolbelt (right now only 1 goes back to the toolbelt) spears should be in alright shape.  They'd  still need some help to compete with the best melee weapons but they're viable enough.


Rifles really only have penetration over everything else.  In practice their range and single shot damage just doesn't matter.  Especially with all the random decaps that other guns can get.  They can get the job done when played well but they are definitely not on the level of other guns, bows, or even junk turrets.  If they're going to compete as slower refire high damage per shot weapons then they need to straight up wreck tougher enemies IMO.

Explosives also feels kinda weird under perception.  Explosives are so strong they completely overshadow the weapons.  I kinda feel like there should be another stat that focuses on explosives and fire and mines and spike traps and etc and that baseline bombs should be nerfed a bit since even baseline explosives are stupid good and cheap.

If the issue was fixed with spears falling through the world, I'd be tempted to use them again. :) Before B169 I started a temp world and I lost 5 stone spears in 2 in-game days.

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9 hours ago, Gazz said:

Tricky issue since as you pointed out, the primary use case for long range rifles cannot exist in the game.

Disallowing the 4x scopes for the MG is something I had been thinking about because they really are too universally useful with that. =P

Disallowing all scopes for MG is likely not going to fly since we have models for those.

 

What the rifles are definitely good at is AP / penetration in corridors. A lot of players just can't be arsed to make that work for them and instead grab and AK and fire a lot more bullets. /shrug

I love being able to turn machine guns into 'battle rifles', 2x scope is fine but i like the 4x scopes. Perhaps just increase MG recoil by a lot so that 4x are effectively worthless without mods that reduce it, like the semi auto mod or burst mod (which limit rate of fire).

Currently i find the semi and burst mods worthless since they just increase actions required by the player, full auto though on a pistol or tactical rifle are great. If they had an added bonus of reducing recoil they would be pretty valuable for 'battle rifle' type builds.

 

Recoil seems like a good tuning lever for MGs, they really are too universally useful having the highest RoF and decent damage. making recoil their drawback would be a good start, the player can either compensate with their skill or get mods to make them handle better at the cost of being full auto or other benefits (crippling mod, drum magazine, barrel extender etc). 

Could we perhaps see rifles getting penetration baseline? The AP perk is great and all, but rifles as is really suffer from having their niche (long @%$*#! range) not being accommodated in a voxel world, baseline penetration would give them a strong gameplay niche from the start so that they wont need to be overtuned in other areas.

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27 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

If the issue was fixed with spears falling through the world, I'd be tempted to use them again

 

Yep, spears really just need a chain mechanic that automatically retracts it to you. Sure, it'd just be a weird bow at that point, but who cares, it would actually be more usable. That would let you run a single modded out spear and not have to waste an entire row of your inventory with spears

 

Currently you have to run 2-4+ spears, which means you need 2-4 times more mods than the other melee weapons, and you have a pretty decent chance of your spear falling through the map and losing all your mods on it. Plus the inventory bar thing making them really bad.  Even if the spear had a chain to go back to your hotbar, actual damage per hit and damage per second wise it doesn't really do nearly as much damage as a Club or Sledge

 

I don't know if I'd say Spears are the worst melee weapon in the game, the stun baton and machete are pretty meh, but spears are basically only early game for me. The throw range makes them really useful until you get a better weapon, but with the buffs to the bow sneak damage, the spear's niche got taken away for me. I don't even typically craft them at all now even on day 1

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

From catching up i can say this, mines are useful till the corpse lands on other mines and detonates them lol

Zombie bears on horde night?  Bring it with a special radiated version of the dogs and bears

 

My Ideas, can we have a new stage of irradiated zombie, the way they look now, we could have a harder version that is actually glowing, could make for the rad suit to come back into effect

or maybe just one Model for Radioactive zombies!

 

 

and leave room for more zombies rather then having!
 

Radioative boe, moe , joe , yo, Fat lady, ETC just one radioactive zombie! he could look like the crawler but green, glowing and has legs!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

Yep, spears really just need a chain mechanic that automatically retracts it to you. Sure, it'd just be a weird bow at that point, but who cares, it would actually be more usable. That would let you run a single modded out spear and not have to waste an entire row of your inventory with spears

 

Currently you have to run 2-4+ spears, which means you need 2-4 times more mods than the other melee weapons, and you have a pretty decent chance of your spear falling through the map and losing all your mods on it. Plus the inventory bar thing making them really bad.  Even if the spear had a chain to go back to your hotbar, actual damage per hit and damage per second wise it doesn't really do nearly as much damage as a Club or Sledge

 

I don't know if I'd say Spears are the worst melee weapon in the game, the stun baton and machete are pretty meh, but spears are basically only early game for me. The throw range makes them really useful until you get a better weapon, but with the buffs to the bow sneak damage, the spear's niche got taken away for me. I don't even typically craft them at all now even on day 1

Worst melee weapon in the game doesn't automatically mean useless. :) In my A18 Agility playthrough I used my trusty machete all the time and it worked quite well for me, even though I wasn't "using it right". (I can't be arsked to wait around for bleed damage to take effect. I'm too impatient; in my mind I go, "why wait around for 30 seconds for that zombie to maybe bleed to death when I can go over to it and finish the fight right now?")

 

I still refuse to use Stun Batons though. 

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9 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

Yep, spears really just need a chain mechanic that automatically retracts it to you. Sure, it'd just be a weird bow at that point, but who cares, it would actually be more usable. That would let you run a single modded out spear and not have to waste an entire row of your inventory with spears

 

Currently you have to run 2-4+ spears, which means you need 2-4 times more mods than the other melee weapons, and you have a pretty decent chance of your spear falling through the map and losing all your mods on it. Plus the inventory bar thing making them really bad.  Even if the spear had a chain to go back to your hotbar, actual damage per hit and damage per second wise it doesn't really do nearly as much damage as a Club or Sledge

 

I don't know if I'd say Spears are the worst melee weapon in the game, the stun baton and machete are pretty meh, but spears are basically only early game for me. The throw range makes them really useful until you get a better weapon, but with the buffs to the bow sneak damage, the spear's niche got taken away for me. I don't even typically craft them at all now even on day 1

Poke, poke, huck into the head or chest when they hit the ground. Retrieve and repeat. I'll assume you understand how to maintain your reach advantage since you've probably been playing longer than I have. Weighted head (if still able to be equipped to a spear) is a very beautiful mod for it.

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13 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Worst melee weapon in the game doesn't automatically mean useless. :) In my A18 Agility playthrough I used my trusty machete all the time and it worked quite well for me, even though I wasn't "using it right". (I can't be arsked to wait around for bleed damage to take effect. I'm too impatient; in my mind I go, "why wait around for 30 seconds for that zombie to maybe bleed to death when I can go over to it and finish the fight right now?")

 

I still refuse to use Stun Batons though. 

You should try it with the replusor!

 

its the best!

 

 

and maybe the Hunting knife could be buffed! in terms of the normal attack! *cough cough swords and axes cough COUGH COUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cough*

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7 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

or maybe just one Model for Radioactive zombies!

I think its been said that radioactive zeds are going and we are getting different kinds of end game zeds. Like a new zed introduced every blood moon. I hope the biker becomes an introduced zed. I believe thats what I heard from one of the dev streams.

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1 hour ago, madmole said:

There is no code for that and it just muddies the water between melee and ranged. Its just another mechanic that isn't needed. I'll do a perception build sometime and then I'm sure I can figure out a way to make them work.

I know its not necessary but id still love to see bayonets added. They could probably be about as strong as a level 1 iron spear, so they wouldnt be anything close to a dedicated steel spear with 4 mods, but would be slot efficient for builds that dont use melee weapons.

 

Speaking of spears, i have been playing A19 on multiplayer and currently using the power attack throws a slow glitchy spear that looks horrible. I heard something about making the spear work serverside for this patch so i thought it might be something to do with that. Just tried it on another server to make sure it wasnt just the server i was on, and i am getting the same problem.

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2 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

I think its been said that radioactive zeds are going and we are getting different kinds of end game zeds. Like a new zed introduced every blood moon. I hope the biker becomes an introduced zed. I believe thats what I heard from one of the dev streams.

ik that but maybe they could keep 1 zombie

and call it "the radioactive walker", and it would have the same ability as the Old radioactive zombies "healing and high health" and can sometimes spawn in the wasteland! and can appear during late bloodmoons!  

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This is probably the first alpha since A16 where I'm actively marking everyone gun safe, wall safe, desk safe, and locked reinforced chest on the map and saving them to open for later. It would be foolish of me to waste potentially upwards of 20+ lockpicks on one or to spend a whole in-game hour or more breaking into each one with my stone axe, and knowing that I'm either going to get mediocre loot early game, or at least loot that I could have gotten anywhere else. Therefore, I fall onto the Jailbreakers candy, and I might not open any safe until I'm past gamestage 50 or so. I no longer see them as an immediate extension of a loot room or an extra bonus container placed somewhere in a POI, but rather as something that I'll simply return to later. This is more of an observation, from my perspective a new path that has naturally sprouted through the current loot progression system, rather than as a complaint. I understand that what we currently have is not yet fully baked, and while this strategic move I have chosen isn't necessarily a product of a clunky system, but nonetheless I'd like to suggest a small change that might get players to reconsider this move regarding locked loot containers. As far as I know, I'm the only one doing this, but I suspect that this trend will continue with others; again, it seems more like a natural response rather than a niche move.

 

Might I suggest that certain loot containers, such as gun safes, could have a higher chance of giving the player a low quality firearm early on? Or if it's possible, could certain loot containers, such as gun safes, have their own unique gamestage/lootstage modifiers attached to them? (For balance reasons this bonus would probably have to diminish over time, much like the usefulness of the Lucky Looter perk.) With this hypothetical system in place, let's say the player is currently looting level 2 blunderbusses but then happens upon a desk safe, which at that point in the game has a higher chance of granting the player a higher level blunderbuss than what they would currently find in weapon bags and the like. The player would then be tempted to either break into it by hand, waste a few lockpicks, chug a lockpicking candy, or again, save it for a rainy day.

 

Not criticizing the candies here really, but with the Jailbreaker's added to the game, the idea above wouldn't necessarily work as well as it could unless the candy was nerfed, and/or showed up in vending machines a lot less often. Nonetheless, I believe that this course of action should take place anyway. 100% chance of success is quite steep in my eyes.

 

In general though, will certain loot containers have a higher percentage chance of dropping specific loot in the future? (Ex. Hardened chests would have a higher chance of dropping T3 items, like M60's, Auto Shotguns, and the like.)

 

Edit: Basically, safes are nothing special in terms of drops, they are very inconvenient to break into early on, and the player will want to save their Jailbreakers for a time when they can use it to its fullest potential while also having a chance of getting something decent from the safes in question. If TFP didn't suspect this strategy/natural path coming (read above for details), well here it is, for better, for worse, or "for neutral". Shrugs

Edited by MechanicalLens (see edit history)
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8 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

ik that but maybe they could keep 1 zombie

and call it "the radioactive walker", and it would have the same ability as the Old radioactive zombies "healing and high health" and can sometimes spawn in the wasteland! and can appear during late bloodmoons!  

MM did say that there will be radiation zones in the wasteland when I asked him earlier. Could be a good idea to have one. I think they are trying to get away from the pin cushion zombie though. I wish I had a radiated military zeds pic with a head full of arrows to go with this. 

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10 minutes ago, STyK_ said:

MM did say that there will be radiation zones in the wasteland when I asked him earlier. Could be a good idea to have one. I think they are trying to get away from the pin cushion zombie though. I wish I had a radiated military zeds pic with a head full of arrows to go with this. 

an irradiated zone would be amazeballs for difficulty, and it would bring back the rad suit, i loved collecting that

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Just now, Phoenixshade35 said:

an irradiated zone would be amazeballs for difficulty, and it would bring back the rad suit, i loved collecting that

maybe the rad suit can give you some armor (little but some) and can protect you from radiation from the wasteland, water and some POIs! 

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Just now, Adam the Waster said:

maybe the rad suit can give you some armor (little but some) and can protect you from radiation from the wasteland, water and some POIs! 

i do enjoy more choices for wear, i remember wearing a full suit in old alpha 15 you would be so protected from the snow biome.

they keep adding more and im loving it, all i need now is a lot of cosmetic items to craft for my home or to simply buy them from the trader and i would have more fun building lol

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16 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

This is probably the first alpha since A16 where I'm actively marking everyone gun safe, wall safe, desk safe, and locked reinforced chest on the map and saving them to open for later. It would be foolish of me to waste potentially upwards of 20+ lockpicks on one or to spend a whole in-game hour or more breaking into each one with my stone axe, and knowing that I'm either going to get mediocre loot early game, or at least loot that I could have gotten anywhere else.

Nobody is forcing you.

My advice is to... just play!

Otherwise you're going back to LBD where you'd be crafting 1000 stone axes because you NEED to get better at crafting.

 

I think that most people make their games less fun because they think too much outside of the game.

 

Try role playing more, think what you would do in a similar situation... it's like saying:

"I'm not buying this city car because I know in the future I'll be able to buy a racing car!"

Well, you know what? Then you'll need to buy very good shoes since you'll be walking a lot in the future! 😄

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Just now, Phoenixshade35 said:

i do enjoy more choices for wear, i remember wearing a full suit in old alpha 15 you would be so protected from the snow biome.

they keep adding more and im loving it, all i need now is a lot of cosmetic items to craft for my home or to simply buy them from the trader and i would have more fun building lol

plus it would give a challenge, You're rad suit is about to break and you need to find somewhere safe to repair!

 

 

adds some drama!

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