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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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Like Jost Amman said, the issue is snipers have no real use case in a game where all the combat is at most at medium range. Also, it doesn't help that you can attach a big scope on a AK47, essentially turning it into a on-demand sniper with a bigger magazine and rate of fire...

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1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:

I don't know how to solve this problem... I'm not a game designer after all.

If they can find a way to even up for the rifles range limit disadvantages in a voxel world then kudos to them!

 

But I don't think that adding more hip-fire weapons is the way to go, it's just a workaround, not a solution.

One way to solve the problem: Nerv the 2x scope and remove the option to put 4x scopes on AK, tactical rifles and M60.

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42 minutes ago, beHypE said:

Like Jost Amman said, the issue is snipers have no real use case in a game where all the combat is at most at medium range. Also, it doesn't help that you can attach a big scope on a AK47, essentially turning it into a on-demand sniper with a bigger magazine and rate of fire...

Which raises a side question, how many people actually use an 8x scope mod? I certainly haven't. Again, there's no need.

 

As I see it, the only workaround to make snipers more effective is to allow the higher end tiers and quality tiers to one-shot most zombies... which would most certainly raise balancing issues.

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Tricky issue since as you pointed out, the primary use case for long range rifles cannot exist in the game.

Disallowing the 4x scopes for the MG is something I had been thinking about because they really are too universally useful with that. =P

Disallowing all scopes for MG is likely not going to fly since we have models for those.

 

What the rifles are definitely good at is AP / penetration in corridors. A lot of players just can't be arsed to make that work for them and instead grab and AK and fire a lot more bullets. /shrug

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40 minutes ago, Gazz said:

Tricky issue since as you pointed out, the primary use case for long range rifles cannot exist in the game.

Disallowing the 4x scopes for the MG is something I had been thinking about because they really are too universally useful with that. =P

Disallowing all scopes for MG is likely not going to fly since we have models for those.

 

What the rifles are definitely good at is AP / penetration in corridors. A lot of players just can't be arsed to make that work for them and instead grab and AK and fire a lot more bullets. /shrug

You can use AP Ammo on MGs. Also doing headshots while suffering from hordelack forces yout to use weapons with a high rate of fire and big magazins. So it is not only player slacking.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gazz said:

Tricky issue since as you pointed out, the primary use case for long range rifles cannot exist in the game.

Disallowing the 4x scopes for the MG is something I had been thinking about because they really are too universally useful with that. =P

Disallowing all scopes for MG is likely not going to fly since we have models for those.

 

What the rifles are definitely good at is AP / penetration in corridors. A lot of players just can't be arsed to make that work for them and instead grab and AK and fire a lot more bullets. /shrug

I was thinking that maybe ALL rifles (but especially the sniper one) could have a very high chance of a critical shot that multiplies the damage.

Just throwing there ideas that have already been used and tested in other games...

Edited by Jost Amman
typo (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

@madmole

 

Are there plans to re-visit the apartment building (sorry I dont know the POI name)  its the one thats 4 or 5 stories, very square shaped and each apartment has its own balcony.  Top floor has skylights in 2 of the apartments.

 

We ran into this one yesterday (hadn't seen it in a while).  It was pretty meh compared to all the new and re-vamped POI's.  But the building looks like you could do a great dungeon rework on it.  Heck even just an update that brings it on par with the other buildings.

 

A19 has been very solid and impressive.  The game is better than ever. 

Thanks for all of TFPs  hard work. 

Edited by LewZephyr (see edit history)

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So there I was, mining clay during the middle of the night with nothing to illuminate the area but my headlight (I have my brightness down to 38%)., listening to the eerie tunes of the night. I went through a sudden palpitation, my eyes wide and my body very temporarily petrified, as I heard the blood curdling growl of a bear right behind my #@&, so without thinking I immediately booked it in the opposite direction and quickly switched off my headlight before eventually coming to a stop and crouching in the tall grass surrounded by shadow. I am now slowly crawling my way back to my house where I'll spend the night tucked away in the basement next to my storage to wipe off the sweat and get over what just happened. It's night 5 and I don't have a gun as of yet. I should not have been out there. TFP have convinced me that until I get a trusty firearm... I'm staying indoors during the early hours. Well played on the animal spawns. Well played.

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18 minutes ago, BadPlayer said:

Any indication when stable is hitting??

Some say its done when its done, and it is so. There are no estimated dates usually, I know its frustrating, but its always worth it. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I don't know how to solve this problem... I'm not a game designer after all.

If they can find a way to even up for the rifles range limit disadvantages in a voxel world then kudos to them!

 

But I don't think that adding more hip-fire weapons is the way to go, it's just a workaround, not a solution.

It not all about long distance range.  On horde nights, where the rifles shine is with the penetrator perk and zombie choke points.

 

They are also more ammo efficient imo.

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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10 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

So there I was, <snip>

Moments as this one makes this game so good, always loved to be scared and reconsider my strategy back in a safe place.

 

Even better, as biomes get their own challenges in the future, it will make us unable to just loot and go and would be awesome. 

 

Can`t wait man. Keep meeting bea.. I mean keep having fun out there. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

It not all about long distance range.  On horde nights, where the rifles shine is with the penetrator perk and zombie choke points.

Yes, you can do some serious damage but... being under the same attribute isn't enough of a hint for many. =P

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I was thinking that maybe ALL rifles (but especially the sniper one) could have a very high chance of a critical shot that multiplies the damage.

Just throwing there ideas that have already been used and tested in other games...

Theres a perk for that..the one that increases damage with each successive shot.

 

Edit: Dead Eye (50% at full rank)

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)

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6 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Theres a perk for that..the one that increases damage with each successive shot.

 

Edit: Dead Eye (50% at full rank)

Dead Eye is weak, if you don't kill a bloated walker with 1 headshot, you lose the buff. It becomes even more useless later on as everything doesn't die from 1 headshot.

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1 minute ago, RhinoW said:

Dead Eye is weak, if you don't kill a bloated walker with 1 headshot, you lose the buff. It becomes even more useless later on as everything doesn't die from 1 headshot.

I dunno about that, I have never have issues keeping it up in a zombie kill corridor.  

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29 minutes ago, RhinoW said:

Dead Eye is weak, if you don't kill a bloated walker with 1 headshot, you lose the buff. It becomes even more useless later on as everything doesn't die from 1 headshot.

it would be cool if the Farther you hit a zombie with a Marksman weapon, the more damage it will do!

and it goes up with the perk!

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20 hours ago, STyK_ said:

Well then we disagree. I do not believe that what I am doing and what they are doing are the same. 'They' are 'pretty much' playing with cheat codes and I am making the game harder then it already is and adding mass loss and trying to play this game like a walking dead game rather then a tower defense game. Just because others don't like permadeath doesn't mean it can't be option in the settings. Apologies if the idea of this raises the bar for some.

We are still wanting to do official dead is dead settings, and maybe a softer dead is kinda dead option where lives are obtained in some kind of economy.

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6 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

it would be cool if the Farther you hit a zombie with a Marksman weapon, the more damage it will do!

and it goes up with the perk!

That actually sounds like a great incentive to kill things farther out.  Great idea.

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19 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I  mean I didn't record myself loading in the first time no, lol. I could probably find my wooden block with a campfire and bedroll next to it in the middle of the road I spawned on if you want ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

Are there plans to make Burnt Biome a bit . . .less burnt out and empty? There's basically nothing in it nor any reason to go there imo. The new lighting makes it look a lot cooler at least, but I still wouldn't ever want to live in it or the Wasteland, or even visit them honestly.

 

There are basically no points of interest because everything is burned, there's no loot, no living animals,  there no real resources there and aren't even many zombies etc. ATM it's just there for looks, since you can just get charcoal in the forest instead, which is a shame because the burned zombies look cool and are really unique

 

Wasteland is just a miserable, miserable place that isn't even there for looks. Looks ugly, feels ugly, is ugly. Both Biome have the same issue where there are basically no points of interest so there's no loot, and there's nothing to really see besides the scenery itself.  Neither have unique resources or any real draw besides just "It's been a few alpha since I lived in one of these, guess I'll try it again"

Just stop with the hyperbole. Pretty much every post is just your opinion with zero facts.

 

There are unique burnt POIs in the burnt forest. There are live animals in the burnt forest. There are the same POIs spawning there than in the regular forest. There is coal there easily obtained on the ground and from the burnt trees, and wood, and all ores/resources.

The wasteland will have an elevated game stage in the future, and radiation and the best loot possible.

It was never intended for anyone to live there, unless you thrive on dreary or want to stay clear of scrubs in PVP because without rad gear they won't survive long enough to get your loot.

18 hours ago, pregnable said:

What this game REALLY needs is a perk line, or have it added to a perk line where you get full exp from spike traps lel. 

 

I would totally be a lumberjack and kill most things with wood spikes if I was not losing out on huge amounts of exp.  I used to do it in one of the older builds heh. 

We don't have a way to store who made the spike (so no way to award XP) unless we turn it into a model entity instead of a block, and then we get poor performance from too many entities, draw calls, etc.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Theres a perk for that..the one that increases damage with each successive shot.

 

Edit: Dead Eye (50% at full rank)

I was thinking more of a perk which sometimes gets you maximum damage on the first shot, not the other way around... you know, like a critical hit! 😉

 

@madmole: what is your current take/position on rifles and sniper rifles in A19?

Do you think they need improving? And if the answer is yes, have you got any idea in the oven ready to cook?

Thanks

Edited by Jost Amman (see edit history)

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8 minutes ago, madmole said:

Just stop with the hyperbole. Pretty much every post is just your opinion with zero facts.

 

There are unique burnt POIs in the burnt forest. There are live animals in the burnt forest. There are the same POIs spawning there than in the regular forest. There is coal there easily obtained on the ground and from the burnt trees, and wood, and all ores/resources.

The wasteland will have an elevated game stage in the future, and radiation and the best loot possible.

It was never intended for anyone to live there, unless you thrive on dreary or want to stay clear of scrubs in PVP because without rad gear they won't survive long enough to get your loot.

We don't have a way to store who made the spike (so no way to award XP) unless we turn it into a model entity instead of a block, and then we get poor performance from too many entities, draw calls, etc.

Give us a bandaid fix like an option to enable/disable xp from environmental kills (gives all players xp, but like 50% of the entity's xp)? At least until you guys find a solution.

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8 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

IMO the problem is not with the Shotgun, the problem is with all long range weapons, but it's not TFP's fault.

The problem is that rifles and sniper-rifles should shine in VERY long range hits, but the game engine is not able/programmed to load entities that far.

 

In an ideal world IMO you should be able to zoom-in with the scope and see (i.e.) biome spawns (or even sleepers) that are 300/400 blocks away.

Then a sniper rifle would allow you to use that weapon tactically in the proper way.

Example: if you plan to go in the Factory POI you'd first be able to climb in a nearby rooftop and snipe out all zombies near the windows.

Yes, this is the biggest issue, is that the limited range of voxels makes rifles kind of pointless, because most encounters are short to mid range. There are some uses for the rifle for sure, but it doesn't make it enticing enough to spec into.

6 hours ago, Matt 1977 said:

@madmole just a quick question, zombie bears on horde night. Wondering why its not a thing? 

I thought it was on high GS.

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4 minutes ago, madmole said:

Yes, this is the biggest issue, is that the limited range of voxels makes rifles kind of pointless, because most encounters are short to mid range. There are some uses for the rifle for sure, but it doesn't make it enticing enough to spec into.

I thought it was on high GS.

Unless you've added that in A19, no, that has never been the case. At least not for the past few/several alphas.

20 minutes ago, madmole said:

We don't have a way to store who made the spike (so no way to award XP) unless we turn it into a model entity instead of a block, and then we get poor performance from too many entities, draw calls, etc.

I think it's fairly balanced as is anyway. With spikes, especially whole fields of them surrounding your compound, killing zombies for you, you end up using less ammunition. The trade-off? You don't get any XP from the kills the spikes produce.

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