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madmole

Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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i do want those half blocks though, they would make for some good looking walls, better than the plates, they just look better to me.

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3 hours ago, CarlCastello said:

With all due respect, I don't think a loading screen tip is the solution to this issue. The icon just needs to be adjusted to better convey its usage. For example, adding a down arrow beside the icon.

 

I have no particular dog in this race but I've seen quite a few responses to issues with "we should add a loading screen tip" - and I'm afraid that will become a bit of a crutch. You've often spoken of having simple designs that anyone can understand and the problem here is that people don't understand that they can click the icon. If the solution to that is a loading screen tip something is amiss.

How is a down arrow more intuitive than a backpack icon? What is wrong with a loading screen tip? Maybe a pop out box that says "sort" when you hover the mouse over the backpack would work. At any rate maybe when we put the item sorting storage in while we're there we can improve it somehow.

4 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

i do want those half blocks though, they would make for some good looking walls, better than the plates, they just look better to me.

They are already in the build menu.

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weird, i couldnt find the 1/2 centered blocks i wanted, i know recular half blocks are in the game, but the centered ones i havent found in any build menu for blocks

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20 minutes ago, madmole said:

, we can't introduce a new feature like that in a stable build (going stable any day now).

 

So are we gonna have to live with the huge lag spikes while Prefabs load then? It pretty much kills all the modded games tbh.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, madmole said:

How is a down arrow more intuitive than a backpack icon? What is wrong with a loading screen tip? Maybe a pop out box that says "sort" when you hover the mouse over the backpack would work. At any rate maybe when we put the item sorting storage in while we're there we can improve it somehow.

Down arrows next to icons are pretty standard for sort buttons. Checkout the attached image for a quick Google search for "sort icon":

 

Spoiler

image.thumb.png.43890a5161a5562ba1106ae80b9f11e5.png

 

There's nothing wrong with loading tips. The issue is you guys have created an unintuitive situation where most other UI panels have an icon beside the title that is purely decorative. Why would players know to click this specific one? It's an issue of affordance. Players simply don't know to click or hover on the icon because nothing has taught them to do this.

 

The requirements for perks have a similar behaviour but I would also argue that that isn't very intuitive either. They are slightly better because the first row is usually available and shows a shopping cart so that may lead players to wonder why the following row shows a lock. Relying on a tooltip is still a little dicey here though because players may not mouse over the lock to notice.

Edited by CarlCastello (see edit history)
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For the love of god do something about the animal spawns in the snow biome...

 

Started a game, on my quest to the first trader which was like 1.3km away, in the first 500m or so I came across 5/6 mountain lions and a bear. I could even see them being spawned in on my path in front of me...

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6 minutes ago, CarlCastello said:

Down arrows next to icons are pretty standard for sort buttons. Checkout the attached image for a quick Google search for "sort icon":

 

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.43890a5161a5562ba1106ae80b9f11e5.png

 

There's nothing wrong with loading tips. The issue is you guys have created an unintuitive situation where most other UI panels have an icon beside the title that is purely decorative. Why would players know to click this specific one? It's an issue of affordance. Players simply don't know to click or hover on the icon because nothing has taught them to do this.

 

Arguably the requirements for perks have a similar behaviour but I would also argue that that isn't very intuitive either.

What  you are missing is that some people will look for interactable UI elements and others won’t. Putting a down arrow isn’t going to have any effect on the people who don’t look for UI or who don’t pay attention.  On a regular basis people ask for a UI element  that they have read a book. That UI element is in the game, it is clear, and it is intuitive. Some people still don’t notice it because that is just the way some people are. For those who do pay attention, look for UI elements, and care about sorting items, they are likely to click on the sack to see what happens. I don’t care if a down arrrow is added but it’s not really going to change how accessible this feature is. 

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11 minutes ago, Doomofman said:

For the love of god do something about the animal spawns in the snow biome...

 

Started a game, on my quest to the first trader which was like 1.3km away, in the first 500m or so I came across 5/6 mountain lions and a bear. I could even see them being spawned in on my path in front of me...

Nothing needs to be changed.  It's been stated before tougher bioms will have greater challenges.  You don't have to do the trader quest right away.  You just have to wait until you have the weapons needed to traverse the snow biom.

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23 minutes ago, Galifrey1965 said:

So are we gonna have to live with the huge lag spikes while Prefabs load then? It pretty much kills all the modded games tbh.

No, Faatal is looking into it. We can't go stable with lag spikes.

10 minutes ago, Doomofman said:

For the love of god do something about the animal spawns in the snow biome...

 

Started a game, on my quest to the first trader which was like 1.3km away, in the first 500m or so I came across 5/6 mountain lions and a bear. I could even see them being spawned in on my path in front of me...

Stay out of the snow, it is going to be a very hard biome in the future, this is just the beginning of that. Just cancel the quest and get another one.

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Could we please get a decimal point for armour rating. Given now that there are two randomly generated numbers that determine the final armour rating for each piece of armour, it's important to know exactly which piece is better when comparing. For example, I have 5 pieces of Q3 steel armour, each display 12 armour and 12 explosive resistance, but when equipped I get 63 armour and 64 explosive resistance

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25 minutes ago, CarlCastello said:

Down arrows next to icons are pretty standard for sort buttons. Checkout the attached image for a quick Google search for "sort icon":

 

  Hide contents

image.thumb.png.43890a5161a5562ba1106ae80b9f11e5.png

 

There's nothing wrong with loading tips. The issue is you guys have created an unintuitive situation where most other UI panels have an icon beside the title that is purely decorative. Why would players know to click this specific one? It's an issue of affordance. Players simply don't know to click or hover on the icon because nothing has taught them to do this.

 

The requirements for perks have a similar behaviour but I would also argue that that isn't very intuitive either. They are slightly better because the first row is usually available and shows a shopping cart so that may lead players to wonder why the following row shows a lock. Relying on a tooltip is still a little dicey here though because players may not mouse over the lock to notice.

Hopefully we can make everything more intuitive as we polish systems.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, madmole said:

Maybe a pop out box that says "sort" when you hover the mouse over the backpack would work.

As i am just reading this and since the backpack buttons are now (afaik) integrated into vanilla (what i saw in streams, because i'm using the mod since at least A18 anyway), would it be possible to exclude the "locked" slots from the sorting? (and can you please save the choosen number in the players profile?)

The locked slots are quite useless (just to not say counterproductive) if you are using sorting in combination.

Edited by Liesel Weppen (see edit history)

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2 minutes ago, FranticDan said:

Could we please get a decimal point for armour rating. Given now that there are two randomly generated numbers that determine the final armour rating for each piece of armour, it's important to know exactly which piece is better when comparing. For example, I have 5 pieces of Q3 steel armour, each display 12 armour and 12 explosive resistance, but when equipped I get 63 armour and 64 explosive resistance

You might have some damage resistance from a book you read or something.

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2 minutes ago, madmole said:

 

Stay out of the snow, it is going to be a very hard biome in the future, this is just the beginning of that. Just cancel the quest and get another one.

or you know! you can troop through it!

 

 

I really hope all the biomes will have something special! like Wasteland has Radiation, Nearly Endless zombies, But trash and loot is EVERYWHERE! it would be a Salvager's, Grinders, and Miners wet dream!

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Posted (edited)

Honestly TFPs aren't the only ones where their GUI winds up being a bit obtuse in parts.

 

Simple solution that is cheap dev-time wise is just to take a high rez screen shot of each gui and label/briefly-explain each bit.

Make them viewable in-game through the Journal and also point the player to where the pics are in their file system so they can view them outside of game, and at full size, so those playing game at low rez can read the info in a pic viewer.

 

If a gui element changes it's a simple edit.

 

Edit: think back when we used to buy games at a store and they came with a paper manual. Near the back was usually something like this.

Edited by FileMachete (see edit history)

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Just now, madmole said:

Hopefully we can make everything more intuitive as we polish systems.

I hesitated to comment on this issue because I know this current UI is basically temp dev gfx and the sort feature was likely slapped in quickly as a proof of concept. I look forward to seeing what the team comes up with.

 

Thanks for hearing me out, @madmole

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18 minutes ago, madmole said:

You might have some damage resistance from a book you read or something.

I just went into my test world, a fresh character, spawned in the Q3 steel armour set. Each piece displays 12 armour/explosive resist. On the character screen this time it says 62 armour and 63 explosive resist. So definitely no buffs from anything.

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Posted (edited)

Just a random thought, but isn't it odd that there's no way to turn meat into rotten flesh? 

Edited by Junuxx (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, Junuxx said:

Just a random thought, but isn't it odd that there's no way to turn meat into rotten flesh? 

If they ever add food spoilage to the game....

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1 minute ago, Jarod_Silverstar said:

If they ever add food spoilage to the game....

I am thinking make it a recipe that is ran in the cement mixer.  tumble that meat rotten.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, madmole said:

Zombies don't spawn until you are basically really close to a POI. Resources for them are probably all loaded at startup since you see them all the time. Textures are streamed to 1 pixel if they aren't in view.

 

Not what I meant. VRAM/textures don't seem to be the problem this time. The lag spike is produced when intense biome spawns mix with sleeper spawns. It happened in 18.4 to some degree, and was exacerbated in a19 when biome spawns where tunned.  It's the "entity" code which is the problem this time, not its texture. It's heavy on the system for some reason. And then I can spawn 60+ Zds with no problem in dm with no more than 15-20 framerate drop. But when I pass by a POI console spawns like  6 sleeper volumes that I certainly don't see and fps go bonkers. Makes little sense.

 

That's why I asked about the "block" thing. Loading a block and then switch would theoretically be cheaper. And a lot of work and tunning. But the benefits could be quite substantial.

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)

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Man I forgot how meh Navesgane is compared to RWG. Started a new world after the update and decided to do Navesgane again because it's been years. There's basically only 2 decent sized towns I guess? And the trader spawns are all outside the town itself, so you have to run 200-300 meters every time to get to Jen and all your quests are 1-2.5 km away, bleh.

 

RWG for life, having a trader spawn actually connected to the town so you don't spend 90% of your early game holding down W while completely out of stamina and still 900+ meters from your target is just hard to beat

 

1 hour ago, madmole said:

Stay out of the snow, it is going to be a very hard biome in the future, this is just the beginning of that.

 

Aw yiss. Snow biome is my preferred living location, pretty excited for it to be a bit more lively. It's already by far the hardest early game imo because Lumberjack zombies are just ridiculous for early game melee to deal with, stupid tanky lumberjacks

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1 hour ago, madmole said:

No, Faatal is looking into it. We can't go stable with lag spikes.

Stay out of the snow, it is going to be a very hard biome in the future, this is just the beginning of that. Just cancel the quest and get another one.

Not sure you can cancel your initial trader quests, maybe stop spawning players in the snow biome unless they select high difficulty?

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Man I forgot how meh Navesgane is compared to RWG. Started a new world after the update and decided to do Navesgane again because it's been years. There's basically only 2 decent sized towns I guess? And the trader spawns are all outside the town itself, so you have to run 200-300 meters every time to get to Jen and all your quests are 1-2.5 km away, bleh.

 

RWG for life, having a trader spawn actually connected to the town so you don't spend 90% of your early game holding down W while completely out of stamina and still 900+ meters from your target is just hard to beat.

 

Yeah, I cant get over that this is how TFP would make a map, on purpose.

 

My only guess is they all tested using Gyro-copters or teleport. 

Well, as the map has the cheaper, sleazy(er), Pal's Marina and not the real Al's Marina... its no loss.  :)

Edited by Aldranon (see edit history)

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2 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

Yeah, I cant get over that this is how TFP would make a map, on purpose.

Isn't it basically the same map from when there was a Hub City?

 

And there were a fair few more zombies out an about in the wild too so running through the woods was actually a challenge.

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