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24 minutes ago, madmole said:

I wonder if you don't have an SSD or your hard drive is fragmented causing a slow load speed?

Are ssd drives the new min spec?

 

Also... Turn terrain textures to low.  Profit.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

Wat, no pls no!! It's finally viable and makes an actually good end game melee weapon for Int build. It's not very good at all without perk investment, and even a single one isn't that great by itself. If I put 8 mods into 2 junk sledges, set them up so they can actually hit stuff, and have an entire magazine line + 10 points in int + 5 points in the turret perk, they SHOULD actually be as strong as they are now, as their current level is mostly just "These are useful in some niche situations and I find myself actually using them sometimes in a PoI" but they aren't that crazy outside of horde bases built solely around them.

 

For any kind of large horde, you still use Junk Turrets, and on horde night even if you build your entire base around junk sledges, they won't do anything you couldn't do 400 times better with pipe bombs, which are basically free to craft and have been blatantly OP since they were added. Every horde strategy I've seen including Madmole's is just "Stand on bars and throw molotovs and pipe bombs down at the horde"being the crux of your damage to the horde, regardless of build. There's no point in even investing in explosive perk, rock candy + their base damage out classes every other weapon type. 

 

Having new alternatives are a good thing imo

Explosives are definitely OP and have been since the skill rebuild.  I expect them to be nerfed eventually.  I'd rather they be close to as strong as they are now if you're perception build and weaker for everyone else.  Because right now they are just top tier for everyone and cheap to craft.

If I was to spitball changes for molotovs, pipe bombs, grenades, and etc within the current system: 

- Reduce the AOE of baseline explosives. 
- Add increased AOE to the perception skill. 
- Nerf their damage slightly.  
- Increase their crafting costs significantly.   
- Increase their cost at the trader moderately. 
- Give perception's explosive's skill a reduction to crafting costs matching the baseline crafting cost increase.


TBH though I feel like explosives have a bigger issue.  They feel tacked onto perception and perception has a few things that don't fit.  They take away from spear/sniper rifles defining the line IMO.  Perception, IMO, should be about spears/snipers/looting.  Animal tracker is good in perception, lock picking is good in perception.  But I feel like demolitions expert and infiltrator do not it in perception.  Infiltrator loose board delay should be part of agility stealth skill and the mine pickup should either be a book or go to a new skill that helps mines not suck.


IMO we should to create a new attribute that focuses on explosives and other stuff: I'll call it "Cunning" for the interim:

- Focuses on explosives and flame weapons.  Melee and Ranged focus on fire, demo skills is moved to cunning and includes the changes I mentioned above.
- Levels of Cunning increase damage to perk weapons, increases headshot damage, increases decap chances, and increases fire DOT damage/duration.  Successive ranks lower the chance of zombies setting allies (including you) on fire with melee attacks.  Complete immunity granted at rank 5.  Enemies set on fire do 5%/10%/15% less damage at ranks 5/7/10

- T1-T4 melee are similar to clubs with their own unique designs that are on fire.  Not a stealth weapon.  Similar to stun batons they differentiate themselves with how they play.  They require animal fat or oil to crafting depending on tier but repair normally with repair kits. 
- Regular attacks have a chance of fire, Melee power attacks cause a small burst of fire that does a small amount of AOE damage (no block damage from AOE) and has a chance to set nearby enemies on fire.  The AOE size, initial damage amount, and chance of setting nearby enemies on fire with AOE burst goes up with skill rank.  Friendlies are not set on fire/damaged unless hit directly.  There is a short cooldown between AOE bursts where the weapon's flame will be less intense for a time.
- Just like blades have bleed chance but accept the bleed chance mod, melee has fire chance but accepts the fire chance club mod.

- T1 ranged weapon is primitive thrown firebombs, T2 is a single shot grenade launcher firing incendiary shells with small AOE,  T3 is a multishot grenade launcher firing incendiary shells with small AOE, T4 is a flame thrower.  Friendlies can be damaged or set on fire. 
- Ranged weapon skill increases damage, AOE, range/projectile speed, and reload speed. 

- General balance of melee and ranged weapons is that they are weaker single target damage but generally good in AOE.
- General damage profile is weaker up front damage but superior damage over time, similar to the bleeding with knives.

- Focuses on 1 time use non-electircal traps including mines.  The existing spike traps and then ideas for other traps include deadfall traps, pitfall traps with spikes at the bottom, swinging log traps, etc.  These should all be able to be implemented using current code bases and mainly just needs custom graphical assets and numerical balancing. 
- Spikes break and need to be rebuilt, deadfall traps and swinging log traps activate once and then need to be reset/repaired, pitfall traps activate a set number of times and the graphics change to show a pit with a few bodies in it and must be repaired.  "Resetting" could just be a repair that uses less resources than normal. 
- Non-electrical traps including mines have a skill that make them much cheaper/faster to craft when fully invested...as well as increases their durability and damage of traps it applies to. 
- Mine damage to blocks is decreased with skill rank, you get the ability to pick up mines with middling rank, and mine damage resistance scales with skill rank.  People in your party (including you) cannot set off the mines you place. 

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

damn thats sad, it looks really cool

Crying Black Guy Meme GIF - CryingBlackGuy Meme Sad - Discover ...

 

I got you covered.

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@madmole I believe something that has been going on as of late is removing/buffing numbers of items in loot that players would otherwise scrap or toss away. (Raw brass, candy tins, hub caps, tree seeds, etc. etc.) I would like to add raw lead to that list. Typically one finds between 1-10 lead in loot per group, which is hardly worth keeping around. Might I suggest a small buff of groups of lead found in loot, raising it to around 30-60+? Your thoughts?

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Posted (edited)

@faatal after further testing I was able to catch the console warning again and I noticed that  I reported it in a bit of a misleading way out of pure laziness. Seems Block related and results in intense fps drops for a little while.

an example :

WRN No chunk for position (numbers, numbers, numbers) , can not add childs to pos (numbers, numbers, numbers)! Block decoPoolTable

Also, as the chunk is not there, I got a warning that a rabbit fell through the world.

 

Many many blocks affected by the warning, that block is just an example. Happened to me with Couch01, cars, trash, pipesmall1x3, , cntcollapsedsolarbank ... etc etc

 

About the other bug (Entity spawn bug) I went a little deeper and investigated the repro cases of those fps drops:

 

Zd continuous biome spawning is not as bad as the following:

 

Seems like night spawns can meet with sleeper spawns when I'm close by and the stuff results in a heavy amount of entity spawning  hitting the fps like crazy from time to time.

Also, POIs with no visible entities from outside should not spawn anything inside until the POI area is reached. Some POI areas are too wide despite being closed spaces and trigger Zd spawning when player is on the road passing by and at 10+ blocks from the POI, dropping the performance like crazy. Hard to tune that though, as too narrow spawning could result in Sleepers being deaf to gunshots from the outside and impact gameplay negatively.

 

As Traders are now in POI heavy places, the performance next to them is slow and this stuff is important because several players make a base next to the trader for convenience.

 

If only there was a way to maintain gameplay while spawning unexpensive sleepers that didn't hit performance while behaving like they do currently...

 

Thanks for all the hard work!.

 

 

Can't upload screenshots here in the forums for some reason. It says upload error, contact a developer or something like that.

 

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)

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i think the Stun Repulsor is the best thing in the world!

 

 

You have not lived until you send a Dog get thrown like a Ragdoll!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Guppycur said:

Are ssd drives the new min spec?

 

Also... Turn terrain textures to low.  Profit.

Yeah, I just noticed recently that terrain quality medium/high kills my FPS by a huge margin (e.g. 60-80 fps to 15-35 fps in wasteland) .  When i compared the textures up close to the low setting it wasnt worth the performance cost.  Using terrain quality low for now.  I will submit a bug report later today in Hope's it can be further optimized at some point.

8 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

@faatal after further testing I was able to catch the console warning again and I noticed that  I reported it in a bit of a misleading way out of pure laziness. Seems Block related and results in intense fps drops for a little while.

an example :

WRN No chunk for position (numbers, numbers, numbers) , can not add childs to pos (numbers, numbers, numbers)! Block decoPoolTable

Also, as the chunk is not there, I got a warning that a rabbit fell through the world.

 

Many many blocks affected by the warning, that block is just an example. Happened to me with Couch01, cars, trash, pipesmall1x3, , cntcollapsedsolarbank ... etc etc

 

About the other bug (Entity spawn bug) I went a little deeper and investigated the repro cases of those fps drops:

 

Zd continuous biome spawning is not as bad as the following:

 

Seems like night spawns can meet with sleeper spawns when I'm close by and the stuff results in a heavy amount of entity spawning  hitting the fps like crazy from time to time.

Also, POIs with no visible entities from outside should not spawn anything inside until the POI area is reached. Some POI areas are too wide despite being closed spaces and trigger Zd spawning when player is on the road passing by and at 10+ blocks from the POI, dropping the performance like crazy. Hard to tune that though, as too narrow spawning could result in Sleepers being deaf to gunshots from the outside and impact gameplay negatively.

 

As Traders are now in POI heavy places, the performance next to them is slow and this stuff is important because several players make a base next to the trader for convenience.

 

If only there was a way to maintain gameplay while spawning unexpensive sleepers that didn't hit performance while behaving like they do currently...

 

Thanks for all the hard work!.

 

 

Can't upload screenshots here in the forums for some reason. It says upload error, contact a developer or something like that.

 

Best to post your output log in the a19 bug forums if you want them to take a serious look at it (when the forum upload thing is fixed).

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, Guppycur said:

Are ssd drives the new min spec?

 

Also... Turn terrain textures to low.  Profit.

No, just trying to help isolate or repro the issue.

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I can confirm that SSD do not help with the stutter.

 

Ryzen 2700x

Nvidia 1080ti

32 GB DDR4 RAM

Game on an SSD

 

Stutters like a mofo since the last update. It was so bad it was straight up freezing at times. I actually thought it was something my friend was doing, but he was freezing up too, while over 2KM away. Not sure if it was because I was the server host or what, but it was hitting both of us at the same time every time and was pretty much unplayable until it finished loading what ever it was trying to do

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56 minutes ago, madmole said:

No, just trying to help isolate or repro the issue.

Xyth and Sphereii have some promising stuff working, but they should elaborate on it themselves. 

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1 hour ago, MechanicalLens said:

@madmole I believe something that has been going on as of late is removing/buffing numbers of items in loot that players would otherwise scrap or toss away. (Raw brass, candy tins, hub caps, tree seeds, etc. etc.) I would like to add raw lead to that list. Typically one finds between 1-10 lead in loot per group, which is hardly worth keeping around. Might I suggest a small buff of groups of lead found in loot, raising it to around 30-60+? Your thoughts?

Probably, its never in a quantity that I keep, so I toss it out.

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1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

Yeah, I just noticed recently that terrain quality medium/high kills my FPS by a huge margin (e.g. 60-80 fps to 15-35 fps in wasteland) .  When i compared the textures up close to the low setting it wasnt worth the performance cost.  Using terrain quality low for now.  I will submit a bug report later today in Hope's it can be further optimized at some point.

I had this issue as well until I put -USEALLAVAILABLECORES into the steam launch options (putting it into the 7dtd game launcher may also work). I was then able to turn it all the way to Ultra without taking any frame drops. However, to me when it’s on ultra, it looks to grainy. To put it in photography terms, it looks like the ISO is turned way up to 3200, so I set it medium to get rid of some of the graininess. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, madmole said:

I wonder if you don't have an SSD or your hard drive is fragmented causing a slow load speed?

EdTkSvQWkAE3Wso?format=jpg&name=900x900

 

Hopefully I can clarify your question with this picture ;)

 

And some numbers 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 7.0.0 x64 (C) 2007-2019 hiyohiyo
                                  Crystal Dew World: https://crystalmark.info/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 bytes/s [SATA/600 = 600,000,000 bytes/s]
* KB = 1000 bytes, KiB = 1024 bytes

[Read]
Sequential 1MiB (Q=  8, T= 1):  2535.650 MB/s [   2418.2 IOPS] <  3306.06 us>
Sequential 1MiB (Q=  1, T= 1):  1727.673 MB/s [   1647.6 IOPS] <   606.48 us>
    Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16):  1511.273 MB/s [ 368963.1 IOPS] <  1386.06 us>
    Random 4KiB (Q=  1, T= 1):    56.793 MB/s [  13865.5 IOPS] <    71.95 us>

[Write]
Sequential 1MiB (Q=  8, T= 1):  1874.845 MB/s [   1788.0 IOPS] <  4466.98 us>
Sequential 1MiB (Q=  1, T= 1):  1870.009 MB/s [   1783.4 IOPS] <   559.93 us>
    Random 4KiB (Q= 32, T=16):  1366.560 MB/s [ 333632.8 IOPS] <  1533.00 us>
    Random 4KiB (Q=  1, T= 1):   193.822 MB/s [  47319.8 IOPS] <    20.97 us>

Profile: Default
   Test: 1 GiB (x5) [Interval: 5 sec] <DefaultAffinity=DISABLED>
   Date: 2020/07/19 18:42:46
     OS: Windows 10 Professional [10.0 Build 18363] (x64)

Edited by Galifrey1965 (see edit history)

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B169 Is very stuttery, Locks me up for 2 to 5 seconds at a time when getting near a building... Tested this on a few Gend worlds & always the same, Fly around the map a while like 20 mins & its still the same when getting near a prefab.. Think back to spawning in x2 25 UMA zombie herds & thats what its like..

 

HDD are NVME Sabrant drives, My misses drives are Samsung Nvme & hers is the same...

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Its not SSD/HD or otherwise, the game for me like for many with specific high end GPU's was fine and rather smooth right up till this particular build update. Wasn't perfect but was working for us a whole lot better than now.

 

Its this latest build's code with regards texture handling and how they are loaded in and then purged.

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Friends and I decided to not restart just yet since there'll most likely be another edition of 19 (19.1+) and so far none of the patches have "broken" anything, thankfully. Friend and I did 119 horde night, separately (and not partied).

 

Game Stats: lvls 158 & 46, gamestages 331 & 110. I have it set to Warrior with max alive set to 100 and per player set to 24 (Thinking of adjusting some settings and increasing this for a test next horde night). This is a dedicated server running on my machine, that i'm also playing on, set at 2k res with variable medium to high settings (a couple low/off's like motion blur etc).

 

Machine stats: i9-9900k (4.18ghz), rtx 2070, game and server are on ssd, ram 32gb (3200mhz) - Game uses up to 30% CPU and 93%+ GPU - RAM is at 6200MB today. Server uses up to about 10% cpu and 978MB ram.

 

The night went rather well in terms of fps. There was a couple dips below 30's but it lasted about a second or so. I mostly unnoticed the dips until the end of the night. Toward the end of the night beginning of morning I noticed the drop (commented on it as well in video). Variable weapons used, all types of zombies present. I still need to "get good" with the pesky demolishers. Tried lowering the DPI of my mouse but it doesnt seem to take so zoomed in far away shots are hard for me with shaky hands. Hoping maybe these videos are helpful in some/any way possible.

 

Spoiler

 

 

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10 hours ago, Doctor3D said:

 

Yeah that's way beyond me..I haven't looked at RAW files of this game since A15---if that's the case - maybe it needs to be aggrevated to much higher degree...I don't notice ANY LOD on the zeds..maybe get it so strong that I notice it...and go from there and see the FPS benefit.

Should maybe even force sleepers to level 3 or 4 of 5 LOD until they become activated...As they wake up - update their texture and animation to level 5..but before then..just let them sit idle in a low LOD state suitable for your distance.

What LOD is shown has nothing to do with data being in memory or not. LODs do not control loading. LODs control which rendering object(s) are enabled to reduce the complexity of the geometry that is rendered.

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@madmole

 

 

i got a few questions for the bow!

 

 

1: Will damage be scaled for the wooden bow and compound bow, cuz the compound bow feels... Weak same with the compound crossbow 

 

2: will bows get a update in any shape or form? like able to put a Sight on it for example 

 

3: will bolts be removed. (you don't need to answers that if not) 

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Posted (edited)

 Mastery of the kiting technique

 

I wanted to talk to you about mastering the technique of kiting. 

 

Basically kiting is backing up which anybody can do. But to gain mastery of it, one has to learn how to time and space at just the right time moment. Most people overdo it and step way the hell back and that is a waste of time and effort. While others have bad timing and get hit. 

Just tap the "S" key just when the zombie  moves forward and you stay just out of reach. Small quick taps are better than one long one. 

 

Mastery will allow you to continuously hit the zombies without a break.  

It would be best to practice this with the knife as it has a high thrust rate with low energy expended. 

For best results, aim for the center of mass, COM.

For the quickest kill and if you are getting good. Aim for the head. 

Make sure you can back up. You don't want to get stuck, that would be bad. 

 

Finally, practice, practice, practice and some day you will be nearly as good as me. IMAO  😄😃 

Edited by sillls (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I can confirm that SSD do not help with the stutter.

 

Ryzen 2700x

Nvidia 1080ti

32 GB DDR4 RAM

Game on an SSD

 

Stutters like a mofo since the last update. It was so bad it was straight up freezing at times. I actually thought it was something my friend was doing, but he was freezing up too, while over 2KM away. Not sure if it was because I was the server host or what, but it was hitting both of us at the same time every time and was pretty much unplayable until it finished loading what ever it was trying to do

It is not as simple as SSD or HD. There are slower SATA SSDs and faster NVME SSDs. I have a very fast NVME SSD, so in my testing of running, flying, teleporting around Navezgane, do not see major lag.

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6 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Hmm, thanks for continuing to look into this and not being dismissive; it's definitely a hot topic amongst at least within my group.  Hopefully by next patch it gets resolved... I'd bet the majority of users still install on platter drives, but maybe gamesparks is providing that info... the overall performance is definitely worse on my game laptop but I'm on vacation so can't test on the big game rig... By accounts from others with similar specs I'm not optimistic though.  

 

Could be just some weird setting, who knows... I've faith you'll sort it. 

I know it is happening to some people. It is just a matter of finding a middle ground that works reasonably well for everyone within our minimum computer specs. This is experimental and that was an experiment. In any event it can't stay how it was before, since Joel consistently would report his FPS dropping to 20 FPS after x minutes of play and having to reload to fix it. He has a high end PC.

 

The irony is it may be the console warning messages from block prefabs not yet loaded causing a lot of the lag and not the actual loading.

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So I just updated to b169 and tried to join my server but got the nullreferenceobject console spam keeping me from playing, I don't mind being level 1 again but is there any way to fix this or do I have to start over again?

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to add to the stuttery situation i also don't have an ssd drive and i get stutters when i go next to buildings well it's not very bad throughout my play time but at the start it can be kinda awful oftenly lasts like 3-4 seconds for me but higher end pc's may have less of a time to wait i dunno what's causing it 

34 minutes ago, sillls said:

 Mastery of the kiting technique

 

I wanted to talk to you about mastering the technique of kiting. 

 

Basically kiting is backing up which anybody can do. But to gain mastery of it, one has to learn how to time and space at just the right time moment. Most people overdo it and step way the hell back and that is a waste of time and effort. While others have bad timing and get hit. 

Just tap the "S" key just when the zombie  moves forward and you stay just out of reach. Small quick taps are better than one long one. 

 

Mastery will allow you to continuously hit the zombies without a break.  

It would be best to practice this with the knife as it has a high thrust rate with low energy expended. 

For best results, aim for the center of mass, COM.

For the quickest kill and if you are getting good. Aim for the head. 

Make sure you can back up. You don't want to get stuck, that would be bad. 

 

Finally, practice, practice, practice and some day you will be nearly as good as me. IMAO  😄😃 

lol

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2 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Best to post your output log in the a19 bug forums if you want them to take a serious look at it (when the forum upload thing is fixed).

I don't think this counts as a bug as much as  feedback regarding a general performance issue. Also, I'm not posting there until I can make a reliable and solid repro for each and every one of the cases. This is not a sound fx tweak.  Posting here may be annoying sometimes, but it's always the more direct approach if the issue is BIG and crippling, like this one.

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1 hour ago, faatal said:

It is not as simple as SSD or HD. There are slower SATA SSDs and faster NVME SSDs. I have a very fast NVME SSD, so in my testing of running, flying, teleporting around Navezgane, do not see major lag.

Thats why its good to have a second crappy computer to see performance issues early.

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