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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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5 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Thanks! 🙂 Now I can restart... again. 😛

 

Breaking news: TFP will continue to release small weekly patches through the entirety of stable all the way until A20, with each update forcing you to restart. 😜

thats odd! i didn't need to!

 

im still in my shameway ruins making my "meat processing plant"

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RoF being lowered is pretty reasonable, honestly it could probably take a hit on all fronts. Even unperked it's insane, but when perked it's just lol. One guy with an auto shotgun build could clear an entire Shotgun Messiah in half the time a guy twice the level with dual junk turrets + fully perked M60 could, and he'd use 1/1000th the resources.

 

Shotguns are definitely a bit ridiculous atm, and I say that as someone who keeps it on my bar 24/7 as my backup gun. Now just buff the Junk Turret Shotgun Ammo so it's even sort of remotely in line with a tier 1 unperked shotgun and we'll be good!

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Is this a bug or did I get unlucky... I just started a new game for B169 and after the initial quests, found my trader and had look around the surrounding area. I selected a POI for a temporary base, placed the land claim block and did some repairs before going back to the trader to get a quest for the following morning.

 

I selected a nearby fetch and, here's the bit that concerns me, it turns out to be the POI I set up as a base. So my question is: is this a bug that a POI with a land claim block can be selected for a quest, or am I just unlucky (and it's probably too hard to filter out POI's with land claim blocks)?

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I'm going to create a copy and paste and ask the forum for authorization to automatically post it every 7 minutes (Note the detail from 7;) The next day: The game is in experimental, if a new patch falls and your game crashed. It just starts again. There is no solution. Just stop crying and go back to the beginning. If you cling to "no" go experimental. OMG. Now if it is the damage of a ?? stone shovel !! ?? they are a week in the forum debating ..🙄

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Anyone else have an issue with loading a saved game?

 

I just finished a mission for trader Jen but had to log for the night. I logged on to turn in my mission and found that my health and stamina got reset. Then when I tried to turn in the mission I find that there is no mission to turn in. 

But it was a fetch mission so I still have a quest item stuck in my inventory. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, ThePewter said:

 

I selected a nearby fetch and, here's the bit that concerns me, it turns out to be the POI I set up as a base. So my question is: is this a bug that a POI with a land claim block can be selected for a quest, or am I just unlucky (and it's probably too hard to filter out POI's with land claim blocks)?

 

This used to happen in A18, don't know if they ever changed to begin with, so it may not be a "bug" so much as "unintended feature". If you activate the quest you'll lose your entire base, so don't start the quest, just disband it and go get another one

 

  

2 minutes ago, sillls said:

Anyone else have an issue with loading a saved game?

 

 

Half of the posts for the last couple of pages are exactly that. You apparently have your level reset when you load in, or spawn dead unable to spawn. I'm scared to load my game lol, but I had honestly considered starting over again anyway since late game is boring compared to early and mid

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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Are there any plans for snowberries? They are the only food item that has no use or real purpose in the game, can`t cook anything, can`t make any special elixirs, gives only 1 food, literally useless and wasted plant. Maybe it could be added to some recipes, if not edible, then special elixirs?

 

Also, removal of water chance to give dysentery feels to make the debuff irrelevant as you getting it is almost impossible, only 4 items can give it to you - Murky water, Raw meat, Rotting flesh and Old Sham Sandwich. 2 of those doesn`t really count as you can easily boil water and cook meat in campfire( which you have already made for the starting quest in first 5minutes) without cooking pot. Feels like a wasted good debuff.

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Just now, v3tro said:

Are there any plans for snowberries? They are the only food item that has no use or real purpose in the game, can`t cook anything, can`t make any special elixirs, gives only 1 food, literally useless and wasted plant. Maybe it could be added to some recipes, if not edible, then special elixirs?

 

I've been thinking about this recently as well. Maybe a drink to allow you to survive better in the desert? I may have missed it but I haven't seen any drinks that reduce overheating anymore in the game. 

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Posted (edited)

Mmm. Ok. Having tested a19 b169, I am playing at 800×600 with scaling at 90%  texture size quarter and  can say that stuff runs bad when loading/unloading instructions come in.

 

It appears that certain stuff is inherently tied to the system ram and cpu, but the problem here is that the amount of loaded stuff actually smashes a 4 core/4 thread system from 2013 in multiplayer and while VRAM seems to have been tunned down, it still surpasses the 4 gig mark from time to time in small spikes, but I could be wrong ?

 

Also, the loading and unloading of VRAM fixed ALL the visual artifacts happening because of it, at the cost of pain. Mostly CPU related pain handling said instructions.

 

Result: when VRAM unloading/loading and CPU stress happen = drops ranging from 20 to 52 fps (8fps gameplay ftw) on potato systems.

 

Is there anything else you can do for us stone age players, @faatal?  The drops are still substantial in a minimum specs system. I am just a 10% below minimum PC specs (edit: actually, my system is pretty much equal to minimum) but a consistent framerate would be preferred, even if it means to spread the VRAM unloading even more.

 

Great Job though. it runs better and more stable for longer until those painful spikes happen.

 

 

Edited by Blake_ (see edit history)

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8 minutes ago, chvycwby said:

I've been thinking about this recently as well. Maybe a drink to allow you to survive better in the desert? I may have missed it but I haven't seen any drinks that reduce overheating anymore in the game. 

there used to be snowberry juice which helped you survive the cold better but well that got removed but i'm not sure why

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11 minutes ago, v3tro said:

Are there any plans for snowberries? They are the only food item that has no use or real purpose

 

They have a purpose, they are there to trick you into thinking you got blue berries until you look closer at them and sigh and throw them out of your inventory

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, v3tro said:

Are there any plans for snowberries? They are the only food item that has no use or real purpose in the game, can`t cook anything, can`t make any special elixirs, gives only 1 food, literally useless and wasted plant. Maybe it could be added to some recipes, if not edible, then special elixirs?

 

agreed! they have no uses anymore, maybe they can be used to make homemade painkillers, snow berries in real life where used to relive pain!

 

 

or they could be canned to make room for something new! 

Edited by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

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8 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

They have a purpose, they are there to trick you into thinking you got blue berries until you look closer at them and sigh and throw them out of your inventory

The only real use for them right now is to punch every snowberry you find on day 1 and you can gobble gobble gobble a good 20-30 of them before or after the moon begins to rise. :eagerness:

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1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

The only real use for them right now is to punch every snowberry you find on day 1 and you can gobble gobble gobble a good 20-30 of them before or after the moon begins to rise. :eagerness:

for me its better to chase a chicken or look through some old moldy house, then take time to eat nasty berrys!

 

 

chicken man! No discussion!

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Posted (edited)

Response and suggestions for the shotgun changes.

This got to be much longer than I originally intended, apologies. But to the Fun pimps and anyone balance-minded, I recommend reading it in full.

 

I understand why the shotguns were nerfed; early game, an auto-shotgun completely overshadowed the alternatives that could be purchased from the trader. 

But I feel that the nerfs to the shotgun ammo types, indirectly lowering shotgun damage, were at once insufficient but yet heavy handed and did not solve the underlying problems.

However, I've been editing xml files all day post-nerf and I have a solution that I think solves a lot of issues with the shotgun weapon tree in general.

 

First and foremost, return the shotgun shells--both slug and shotshell--to their pre-169 values. Despite your having applied a 20% damage reduction, it shakes out to greater than that in practice, and the slugs that once felt decidedly more powerful than handgun rounds now feel anemic. A similar issue plagues the shotshells as well. However, I do agree that peak power being reached by the shotguns was too great, and I'm going to address that in the following.

 

I agree with the blunderbuss nerf; it's just a pipe-gun, and it has innate perforation. Even so, I'd recommend you raise the damage to 10 or 11, up from 9.6 and down from 12. I also recommend you increase the reload time from 3.9 to 6.5. Getting more intimate with the well-done reload animation aids with the old-fashioned feel of the gun, and harms the too-high overall dps.

 

I recommend the double-barrel be kept at 100% pre-169 base damage, and the ROF lowered to 500 to fix audio/visual issues--in practice, 1000 rpm is just blisteringly fast and unnecessary. I also think the reload should be 2 instead of 2.3 seconds long. However, I think that it is far too accurate, and should be given 1.5 more degrees of spread, horizontal and vertical, to try and make it less predictable and reliable. Also, I'd recommend 1 degree more vertical recoil, to decrease effective weapon handling. This is the early-game shotgun, and depending on RNG could be the player's mainstay for a very long time. A 20% damage hit harms this weapon by far the most.

 

Secondly, the pump shotgun. In its current iteration, I feel it's in a kind of limbo where it's not very interesting, though I agree with the damage penalties. To ameliorate this I recommend lowering the damage by 20% (still using pre-169 damage values, so essentially just bringing it in line with the current 169 iteration), and making the reload 2.85 seconds long instead of 2.3 (which also matches better with the sound byte used for the reload and changes the overall pace of the weapon). However, in exchange for these negatives, I recommend a positive; I suggest you add a flat 2, preferably 3, to the max and falloff ranges, bringing the shotshell to 8,13 from 5,10 and the slug to 12,21 from 9,18. These changes not only alter the pace of the weapon, but make it feel more impactful and like a viable alternative to the double barrel that you'd prefer at short-medium range instead of simply on account of capacity. Finally, I think you could increase the horizontal recoil by 1 degree, to make the shooter have to account for its still-fast rate of fire and slightly hamper the medium range performance.

 

Finally, the auto-shotgun. This is a tough nut to crack--currently, it has very little that differentiates it from the alternative shotguns, or indeed from other automatic weapons in the game right now. Despite its aggressive styling, it feels tame at best, and performance dissapoints, despite being very powerful early-game. Worse yet, the 169 changes did nothing to help this gun; if anything, it's even more muddled when compared to the pump shotgun it's supposed to replace.

 

I propose you turn this gun into a proper automatic. Please read to the end of this, because it sounds crazy, but a rate of fire of ~115 rpm, up from 70, makes it feel MUCH more responsive and snappy, which I was frankly surprised by. Despite being so fast, it has no issues with animation jostling or sound-clipping. It feels like a scarier, cooler gun, which matches the aesthetic. Already this sets it apart from the pump shotgun, which currently feels at best like the same gun but without a drum mag. 

This is the ONLY buff I recommend for the gun. Now, for the costs. For starters, I recommend bringing the damage down by 35% (still of pre-169 values). This obviously harms the gun's late-game performance, but not as much as you may think. In exchange, however, it makes it feel more anemic early game and the other two shotguns significantly more appealing, especially when ammo-conservation feels tightest. On the flip side, it feels too jumpy with the new ROF in terms of recoil; A shotgun with a drum this big and a barrel this short wouldn't kick like such a mule, and it's annoying to readjust. SO, I recommend you reduce the vertical recoil to between 1.5 and 3, down from 4.2, but increase the horizontial recoil to +/-6 degrees deviation, up a very noticable 3.5 degrees per side or 7 degrees total. This makes the gun harder to hold on target, and impossible to account for by merely pulling the mouse down, while not being so uncontrollable that it still can't take advantage of being a shotgun. With these changes the gun feels more ramshackle and like it gives up some oomph and precision for its rate of fire.

I understand the aversion to giving the gun full-auto from the start, but I at least recommend you give it an innate, two-round burst. This makes it feel unique, cool, and offsets what feels like a ponderously large magazine. However, for this gun more than the other automatics, ammo count matters so I recommend removing random magazine deviation and also fixing the mag at 15 shots. That way, it's easy to keep track of your shot count both with and without the drum mag mod. 

Speaking of the drum mag upgrade, the reload speed is too fast. I recommend it's changed to 2.85 seconds, same as the pump shotgun. It doesn't feel unnaturally slow, but it does look and feel more ponderous when using the inevitable drum mag mod which I feel is a good change. 

 

Overall, I appreciate that TFP is looking into changing the shotguns and I don't think their concerns are misplaced. For ease of apprehension of the changes I've made in the above wall of text, I've attached an xml with the guns changed and my changes commented. I hope the above recommendations are given due consideration, and thank you for your time. I recommend using an xml viewer such as notepad++ to make the comments more noticeable and the text easier to parse.

proposed_shotgun_revisions.xml

Edited by Wastelander (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

RoF being lowered is pretty reasonable, honestly it could probably take a hit on all fronts. Even unperked it's insane, but when perked it's just lol. One guy with an auto shotgun build could clear an entire Shotgun Messiah in half the time a guy twice the level with dual junk turrets + fully perked M60 could, and he'd use 1/1000th the resources.

 

Shotguns are definitely a bit ridiculous atm, and I say that as someone who keeps it on my bar 24/7 as my backup gun. Now just buff the Junk Turret Shotgun Ammo so it's even sort of remotely in line with a tier 1 unperked shotgun and we'll be good!

But but....what happen to roleplaying as Terry Crews from the Expendables...😢

 

 

1 hour ago, ThePewter said:

Is this a bug or did I get unlucky... I just started a new game for B169 and after the initial quests, found my trader and had look around the surrounding area. I selected a POI for a temporary base, placed the land claim block and did some repairs before going back to the trader to get a quest for the following morning.

 

I selected a nearby fetch and, here's the bit that concerns me, it turns out to be the POI I set up as a base. So my question is: is this a bug that a POI with a land claim block can be selected for a quest, or am I just unlucky (and it's probably too hard to filter out POI's with land claim blocks)?

You wont be able to click the rally point until the lcb/bedroll is moved.

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Posted (edited)

I talked a bit about melee balance earlier, and decided to do a bunch more testing beyond just trying out weapons in standard gameplay, because I was curious to see how viable melee was in the late game, or even how viable a pure melee build was. Also wanted to get a little more specific information about weapon balance. So I did some test runs, and recorded one of them:

 


General Notes on Melee in A19:

 

It feels way better then A18, for two main reasons. One is that it seems like most of the cases of weapons going straight through zombies have been fixed, and you never miss a hit that clearly impacted the zombie model, which happened ALL the time in A18. The second is that stagger has been changed to be way more reliable/consistent, which helps a lot in terms of making melee less random. The one issue is that you will obviously still get hit sometimes, and the new crits can be very nasty if you get some of the worse ones like sprained arm/leg, hence my suggestion earlier for a crit resist perk tied to holding melee weapons (or adding that effect to something like Pain Tolerance might make more sense tbh).

 

Notes on the video specifically:

 

-The Steel Club vs 6 Radiated Joes fight took about 26 seconds
-Steel Knuckles vs same took about 30 seconds
-Stun Baton took about 50 seconds (not bad since it's a T1 weapon not a T2 like the others, but like I said before, the issue with batons is there just needs to be a higher/lower tier version)
-Machete took about 35 seconds (but I got very lucky with an early decapitation)
-Spear took about 2 mins 40 seconds the first time, and about 2 mins 38 seconds the second time.

 

Obviously I didn't play perfectly. I focused more on killing quickly then never getting hit at all, but I didn't just facetank either.  I tested on the big boy Moe first (he has about 900 HP) to show a 1v1 fight, and then 6 Joe zombies (they have about 540 hp) to show a group fight. Note that there is a graphical glitch with the Joe zombies where they sometimes lose their radiated glow.

 

This is a late game test, but you would see similar results with mid levels of perks/weapons vs ferals instead of radiated (it would be difficult for me to upload a lot of videos to show different variations, plus I don't think it would be that interesting to watch like 10 iterations of slightly varying tests). However one of my goals was to specifically test late game viability.

 

Fists benefit a ton from Beer, but that seems to be the intended design, so I tested with Beer. Without Beer the damage is a lot lower, but the CC is still good and they have higher decapitation chances then other melee weapons due to their perk, so they aren't totally useless without it. Also the 'rage mode' from the brawler magazine seems to trigger when your not using fists, and I think the move speed buff still helps in that case, not sure if that is intended.

 

I got lucky in the machete and stun baton test with some decapitations on the first hits. I specifically tested vs radiated zombies to reduce the amount of decapitations (radiated zombies are HIGHLY resistant to dismemberment), but I still got lucky sometimes (obviously there were other decapitations, but most of them were on the last hit anyways when the zombie was almost dead and it made no difference).

 

While the machete doesn't seem that bad in this test (it still came out behind, but not by a large margin, to be fair I was wrong earlier when I said it was like half the DPS), this test was done in a wide open area with max mobility (Perked Light Armour + Jacket), which GREATLY favours the machete and spear, which are otherwise lacking in terms of CC/knockdown compared to clubs/fists/baton. If I was fighting inside a cramped house, the extra CC/knockdowns of the latter options would fare way better then the bleed slow of the machete, and generally lacking CC of the spear. Specifically the machete also favours group fights, as the bleed isn't impactful on single targets, and even despite all these factors it still performed a bit worse.

 

I did two runs of the spear test, because the first run was very badly played by me and I thought it wasn't a fair comparison (to be fair playing the spear is a lot harder in general which is part of the problem IMHO as there is no payoff for the difficulty). I kept the first run in though, because it shows some bugs/QOL issues with spears; sometimes the spear glitches and throws an error in the console. Also in general the pickup 'hitbox' for the spear is often too small and it's hard to pick the thing up in a hurry. Also, if you have multiple spears like I did, and you throw both, and then pick up both, only one goes back on the hotbar, the other ones you have to manually put back on the hotbar from the inventory, which is very annoying. 

 

I could have probably done a lot better in the spear test if I just used the primary attack only, but if you are only spamming primary attack with the spear, it's just a club with no power attack and less knockdown, which is boring. Throwing is the cool/unique aspect of spears, so it SHOULD be good, but the fight took absolutely forever because I had to land basically the same number of thrown hits as for example club power attacks. I wanted to showcase what I considered to be the issues with the spear throw, and demonstrate why I commented earlier that the throw needed to be improved (probably via the spear perk, so that you still have to actually invest in spears to make the throw amazing).

 

On a final note, in terms of 'fun factor' the machete and esp the spear felt the least fun to actually play (fists felt awesome on the other hand). Machete lacked significant feedback on hits (it felt like I was just grazing enemies, maybe adding WAY more blood spray to it's hits would help the 'feel' aspect), and the spear is very slow paced and not anywhere near powerful enough to make up for it, as shown by how long the spear fights took.

 

Dislike how long my posts always end up being, but there is always a lot to touch on :/ Hope it was interesting to someone at least.

Edited by Troxism (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

 

 

 

  snip...

 

 

Half of the posts for the last couple of pages are exactly that. You apparently have your level reset when you load in, or spawn dead unable to spawn. I'm scared to load my game lol, but I had honestly considered starting over again anyway since late game is boring compared to early and mid

Thanks for the info. :)  

 

Do you know why this is happening? I guess this is now a known issue. 

Edited by sillls (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

NOT FUNNY GAME. Feral spider zombie in a small house on day 1? Wow... 🙄

 

7_Days_To_Die_2020-07-17_6_28_44_PM.thumb.png.3b59baf3e94f2694f57c30369960c41d.png

 

Not looking good.

 

Something is telling me I shouldn't have come here...

 

7_Days_To_Die_2020-07-17_6_34_09_PM.thumb.png.b04f84f7e7003d01330b564fd2d60693.png

Edited by MechanicalLens (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, v3tro said:

Are there any plans for snowberries? They are the only food item that has no use or real purpose in the game, can`t cook anything, can`t make any special elixirs, gives only 1 food, literally useless and wasted plant. Maybe it could be added to some recipes, if not edible, then special elixirs?

 

Also, removal of water chance to give dysentery feels to make the debuff irrelevant as you getting it is almost impossible, only 4 items can give it to you - Murky water, Raw meat, Rotting flesh and Old Sham Sandwich. 2 of those doesn`t really count as you can easily boil water and cook meat in campfire( which you have already made for the starting quest in first 5minutes) without cooking pot. Feels like a wasted good debuff.

Snowberries work very well as early game food. As you walk around smack em and snack as you go. I easily ate 20 or so a day w/o even going out of my way. that's a decent amount of food early.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Troxism said:

So I did some test runs, and recorded one of them:

 

Ah, one thing I notice different from your test to mine is I have ferals at nightmare run speed which makes it MUCH harder (basically impossible) to kite them out like you were doing. I didn't even think of that when running tests

 

Good post though! Was similar to my test I was doing except I used Radiated Wights which ripped my arms and legs off while zooming after me at 900 mph lol. I should have thought about the run speed being an issue in mine

 

The spear results are about in line with how I typically see spears end game. Fun, but just not very good. I actually like them early game, but I've just had WAY too many fly through the map and disappear late game to waste the mods on them.  A MASSIVE QoL change would be if you could stack multiple on the same spot in inventory and get them back without having to open the inventory, but that would take a ton of mods.

 

Over all, I think the issue with spear is just a fundamental design problem, they just don't really fit the game very well.  The only real "fix" imo would be to just have the spear teleport back to your hot bar after a second or two, and you just keep the one spear with all it's mods. That would basically make it a weird infinite ammo bow, but it would fix it's issues and actually make it a viable weapon compared to the others instead if you having to fund 5 level 6 spears to have a chance at competing with a single other end game weapon.  Basically like how costly it is to outfit a full Junk Army, except they are WAY more useful than a handful of spears are

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)

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is anyone getting any weird lag stutters ever minute or so in b169? i wasnt getting these in b163. seems to only happen when the game loads a new chunk

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7 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

Ah, one thing I notice different from your test to mine is I have ferals at nightmare run speed which makes it MUCH harder (basically impossible) to kit them out like you were doing. I didn't even think of that when running tests

 

To be fair I don't think pure melee can realistically ever be good vs nightmare speed packs of irradiated without making it utterly broken anywhere near 'default' settings. Which is why I used sprint speed and only survivalist diff, on nightmare + insane melee is basically a 1v1 only thing. Also used weaker irradiated because frankly I didn't want 10 minutes of benny hill spear tossing (was already bad enough as is). In hindsight should have included an iteration with spear primary attack only, and probably sledges or maybe even axes, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone say sledges aren't viable, and I only included the club for comparisons sake.

 

On another note, been doing a little testing of pure fists vs late game horde night on foot, and it's surprisingly more viable then expected due to fists having bonus decapitation chance, although you basically need to have perma Health Bar + Fortbites buffs if your doing it on higher difficulties to try to minimise crits as they are what is going to get you killed (unless your just a god at dodging, you will get hit sometimes). Still wouldn't recommend it in a serious game, but it's kinda fun to test your melee skills.

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On 7/16/2020 at 6:02 PM, Gromit said:

I honestly think you guys are missing a trick not allowing us to salvage objects from POIs intact. There's so many nice new objects, signs, posters that you could use in your base, but you can't take, make or even from the looks of things buy them. Honestly, I'd love to be able to bring home objects for my base (like we used to be able to with the old fridge for instance), it'd be another reason to go out and hit certain POIs.

 

I know you can get them from the creative cheat menu but I hate having to use that thing. I have to use it for a lot of missing blocks and to make painting less of a clickfest. Hope this part of the game gets some love at some point.

Its because users could spam high polygon objects on servers and bring the game to its knees. I'm sure someone will mod in craft everything, but we can't allow it for performance concerns.

6 hours ago, Alpacko said:

Bandolier mod increases reload speed by 15% 

 

F

It shouldn't be way more OP than the perk. It still is, but at least its not crazy now.

3 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Thanks! 🙂 Now I can restart... again. 😛

 

Breaking news: TFP will continue to release small weekly patches through the entirety of stable all the way until A20, with each update forcing you to restart. 😜

You probably don't HAVE to restart, but continue your old save at your own risk.

3 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

How much of a nerf are we talking about here?

 

"Shotgun damage and auto shotgun rate of fire reduced."

It only takes 12 shots to the chest to kill a basic zed.

The question is, how is the hunting?

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