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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

but T2 weapons with skills quickly leave it behind and T3 is incredibly better than fireaxe.

 

<_<

 

I have a 4/5  perked fully modded Steel Sledge I use pretty much constantly now along side my dual junk sledges post buff. I gotta say, the axe still more than holds it own against my steel sledge, y'all should try it a bit before assuming it's just a tool

 

I just use power attacks with my axe 99% of the time, and it 1-2 hit kills basically everything that isn't an irradiated or feral military guy, which are a 2-4 hit kill. The main reason I use the the sledge is for the AoE and knock down, but 1 vs 1 the axe has really good stagger and dismember, and the dual junk sledges can handle knockdown too.

 

I just tested it if you want to see an example on the second hardest difficulty

 

 

 


Note, this is a level 5 axe vs a level 6 Sledge and the sledge has the stamina reducing grip on it as well

 

Spoiler

 

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I used my sledge after the video for the last part of the house and basically the only difference is it takes WAY more stamina and attacks much slower, but more consistently one hit kills instead of stagger locking the target. The difference isn't nearly as extreme as a lot of people seem to think, and against a group the axe can perform a lot better depending on the situation because it attacks far faster and won't leave you out of stamina near instantly

 

A lot of people sleep on the Fire Axe and don't even really try it, but it's basically a straight side grade to the Steel Club. Both are "Faster and cheaper to swing than the Sledge, but a bit less damage" except "a bit less damage" doesn't matter because of break points, same as my Ratchet vs Impact post. It doesn't matter if you do 40 damage or 40 trillion billion zillion damage, if the target only has 38 health.  Fire Axe near always 1 shots non feral basic zombies same as sledge,  2 shots feral zombies same as sledge, and takes maybe 1-2 hits max more on like a feral irradiated tough boye zombie. Staggers nearly as consistently for me too

 

Madmole pls no nerf now that secret is out

 

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

 

<_<

 

I have a 4/5  perked fully modded Steel Sledge I use pretty much constantly now along side my dual junk sledges post buff. I gotta say, the axe still more than holds it own against my steel sledge, y'all should try it a bit before assuming it's just a tool

 

I just use power attacks with my axe 99% of the time, and it 1-2 hit kills basically everything that isn't an irradiated or feral military guy, which are a 2-4 hit kill. The main reason I use the the sledge is for the AoE and knock down, but 1 vs 1 the axe has really good stagger and dismember, and the dual junk sledges can handle knockdown too.

 

I just tested it if you want to see an example on the second hardest difficulty

 

 

 


Note, this is a level 5 axe vs a level 6 Sledge and the sledge has the stamina reducing grip on it as well

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

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I used my sledge after the video for the last part of the house and basically the only difference is it takes WAY more stamina and attacks much slower, but more consistently one hit kills instead of stagger locking the target. The difference isn't nearly as extreme as a lot of people seem to think, and against a group the axe can perform a lot better depending on the situation because it attacks far faster and won't leave you out of stamina near instantly

 

A lot of people sleep on the Fire Axe and don't even really try it, but it's basically a straight side grade to the Steel Club. Both are "Faster and cheaper to swing than the Sledge, but a bit less damage" except "a bit less damage" doesn't matter because of break points, same as my Ratchet vs Impact post. It doesn't matter if you do 40 damage or 40 trillion billion zillion damage, if the target only has 38 health.  Fire Axe near always 1 shots non feral basic zombies same as sledge,  2 shots feral zombies same as sledge, and takes maybe 1-2 hits max more on like a feral irradiated tough boye zombie. Staggers nearly as consistently for me too

 

Madmole pls no nerf now that secret is out

 

You've got the strength build to help with the stamina that most other builds will not have.  Also by your own admission you lose the AOE knockdown, but your also losing out on the guaranteed single target knockdown.  You also lose the 200% damage to stunned enemies.  This might not matter much on your rank and file zombies, but basically any weapon can handle controlled pulls of 1 zombie at a time.  Even a stone axe can handle 1 zombie at a time.  That's more of a question of timing and caution to avoid swings than anything else. 

Where melee weapon viability kicks in is when you get groups of zombies or face individual tougher zombies like ferals and rads with significant health.  Clubs are good at pummeling tough enemies and keeping them a non danger on the ground and get bonus damage on downed enemies.  Sledges are good at area knockdown and doing high alpha strike damage and get bonus damage on stunned enemies.  Blades are good at hitting multiple zombies quickly and then bailing to let them bleed out and are also very stamina efficient...they also have very high attack speed and can dispatch single zombies fast with chained power attacks.  Stun Batons are weak AF but are made to work in tandem with junk turrets.  Knuckles are good at repeatedly stunning an enemy. 

All of them have a significant chance to explode zombie heads automatically, which can defeat stronger zombies much faster than otherwise possible with a melee weapon.  I'd say axes are prolly better than some weapons unperked,  but that's where it ends.

EDIT:  Additional notes:  As I PS I also find people overuse the sledgehammer power attack.  The power attack from that axe that stops your stamina regen does less than a normal attack from your sledge.  There is only a 10 stamina cost difference baseline between axe and sledgehammer, but on a power attack an axe actually uses 60 stamina baseline instead of the listed 30.  So you actually are using more stamina and doing simialar damage compared to a normal sledge attack + the added cost of lack of stamina regen.  For reference Sledge power attack uses 80 stamina baseline, normal uses 40 and axe uses 60/30.  Sexy Rexy ofc reduces that values by as much as 25% normal attack and 50% power attack + ergonomic grip (if you even need it).

I'm sorry but there is a monumentally clear difference here.  If you're gassing out quicker on the sledgehammer you're using it wrong because you can do the same damage for less stamina with the sledge and you're losing your stamina regen with the axe on top of that.

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gromit said:

I honestly think you guys are missing a trick not allowing us to salvage objects from POIs intact. There's so many nice new objects, signs, posters that you could use in your base, but you can't take, make or even from the looks of things buy them. Honestly, I'd love to be able to bring home objects for my base (like we used to be able to with the old fridge for instance), it'd be another reason to go out and hit certain POIs.

 

I know you can get them from the creative cheat menu but I hate having to use that thing. I have to use it for a lot of missing blocks and to make painting less of a clickfest. Hope this part of the game gets some love at some point.

I remember that Madmole talked about something like this some time ago... he was saying that some time (if possible) he would like to give players the possibility to either salvage stuff from POIs or make it available at the traders. I don't know however if that was just idle "pimp dreams" talk or a real possibility for the future.

Edited by Jost Amman (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

You've got the strength build to help with the stamina that most other builds will not have.

 

I use Fire Axe even without Sex Rex, but yeah I wouldn't use it if I didn't have Miner 69 because it definitely wouldn't do as much damage without that.

 

39 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

Also by your own admission you lose the AOE knockdown, but your also losing out on the guaranteed single target knockdown.

It has AoE to some degree, it often staggers ones near my target but I don't know the % chance. It basically always knocks down single target though, I don't know if it even has a chance not to.  Even in the video on the feral military zombie it staggered him on 2/4 hits and he never got an attack off besides the initial one he hit me with, which was mostly just me dealing with OBS stuttering my game while recording

 

I'm not saying Sledge doesn't have more stagger, just that the Axe has "enough" on it's own. Watch my video if you don't believe me, it staggers or knocks down literally every single zombie it didn't one shot.

 

39 minutes ago, Ralathar44 said:

Where melee weapon viability kicks in is when you get groups of zombies or face individual tougher zombies like ferals and rads with significant health.  Clubs are good at pummeling tough enemies and keeping them a non danger on the ground and get bonus damage on downed enemies.  Sledges are good at area knockdown and doing high alpha strike damage and get bonus damage on stunned enemies.  Blades are good at hitting multiple zombies quickly and then bailing to let them bleed out and are also very stamina efficient...they also have very high attack speed and can dispatch single zombies fast with chained power attacks.  Stun Batons are weak AF but are made to work in tandem with junk turrets.  Knuckles are good at repeatedly stunning an enemy. 

All of them have a significant chance to explode zombie heads automatically, which can defeat stronger zombies much faster than otherwise possible with a melee weapon.  I'd say axes are prolly better than some weapons unperked,  but that's where it ends.

That's why I say the Axe is good  in all stats, but it's only S tier in block damage. Stamina, Range, Damage, Attacks Per Second, Block Damage, it's basically A tier in all of them. Sledge has S tier damage and F tier speed and stamina, Spear has S tier range and C tier damage etc. The others all have trade offs, but the Axe and Club line are basically "I'm really good at everything but am not the absolute *best* at anything".

 

I think Axe beats club because Miner 69 is like 400 thousand times more useful than Pummel Pete, especially when the end result is just two very similar weapons. The Axe is a bit slower and takes more stamina than the club I think, but the block damage is much higher so that's why I say they are side grades to each other.

 

 

Like if you made a tier list of the weapons, it would look something like (Note, range seems basically broken in A19, you can hit zombies at SUPER long range with basically anything)

 

 

Weapon Damage DPS Speed Range Stamina Stun
Spear C B A+ S B+ D
Club A A A C+ B+ A
Sledge S D F B+ / A F S
Fire Axe A B+ A A B+ B+
Knuckles B A S F S A+ / S
Machete D C A+ B A C
Stun Baton F F B+ B A F? / ???
Junk Sledge F B S S SSS SSS

 

Disclaimer - (ratings not exact because I don't have the game open with full builds for each weapon type in front of me etc)

 

You basically end up with the different stuff having different pros and cons, but two stand out as basically being "pretty good" at everything with no major downsides (at least while melee range is buggy). The Club and The Fire Axe are great all around. They have "Enough" in basically every way that you don't *have* to make concessions. 

 

As for fighting a group with any melee weapon . . .yeah no. I mean you can, depending on what the group is, but if you round the corner into 4 irradiated wights and 5 feral military guys with your knuckles out, they will take them off your hands (with your fingers still in them) and  give your sphincter a knuckle rub with them for you. I wouldn't even use a sledge in a situation like that, that's pure 100% "Oh ****!!!" Shotgun time while you hammer that S key for dear life

 

I mostly consider melee for 1-5~ish zombies depending on how many are running. In groups that size, the Axe, Club, and Sledge all perform quite well. Machete, Stun Baton, and Spear leave much to be desired, and Knuckles require the magazine line + a lot of perks so it's hit or miss and they are late game. 

 

Junk Sledge is . . .really weird in handheld mode, it will throw them all over the place but not kill them, but in placement mode it's a fantastic ally if you have enough points and magazines in it. It attacks so fast it can actually dish out okay damage despite it's ridiculously bad damage per hit, but it ragdolls them away so it doesn't actually get that many hits on them before they get yeeted out of the battlefield.  In placement mode with it guarding a door or something, it's SSS tier, in handheld I want to say it's F tier but it's really not, I'd take it over a Machete or Spear or Stun Baton for sure because it will stagger the zombie while you run away

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

It has AoE to some degree, it often staggers ones near my target but I don't know the % chance. It basically always knocks down single target though, I don't know if it even has a chance not to.  Even in the video on the feral military zombie it staggered him on 2/4 hits and he never got an attack off besides the initial one he hit me with, which was mostly just me dealing with OBS stuttering my game while recording


Those are glancing blows, weapons have a slight arc depending on the swing.  Knockdown/stagger thresholds are based on the weapon and the damage being delivered IIRC.  Resistance to knockdown is determined by the zombie.  Headshots increase the effect.  This is again a case of "great with careful controlled pulls" where you can take your time and aim the headshot and be accurate.  But the times where weapons matter most is when you have to face tough situations.  Being able to chest hit a zed and knock him down guaranteed no matter what the zed is a rather large advantage and in group situations being able to knock down the entire group near them often is HUGE. 

 

50 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

I think Axe beats club because Miner 69 is like 400 thousand times more useful than Pummel Pete, especially when the end result is just two very similar weapons. The Axe is a bit slower and takes more stamina than the club I think, but the block damage is much higher so that's why I say they are side grades to each other.


Again on the weakest trash enemies 1-2 at a time anything will do.  Even the Stun Baton on it's own can school them and it's weak AF without it's turret backup.  But for harder targets like high hp ferals and any non-trash rad there will be major differences.  Everything handles easy content well.  Pummel Pete is no joke.  Knocking down enemies is easy with club and then you do hella bonus damage while they are knocked down and it knocks them down allover again.  Club laughes at even irradiated ferals because they'll never get off the ground while you keep doing 200% bonus damage swings to them.  AND clubs do 100% bonus damage every 3rd hit.  That means after 2 normal swings a club would do a 128 base damage power attack.  Very useful for just obliterating another zombie from the one you're working on since that's almost sledge level power attack damage.  Fast swings, reasonable stamina usage. 

Club is definitely and all arounder weapon but it's still one of the best weapons in the game without question if used properly.  AND DON'T FORGET BOOKS!  Batter up gives 10% more club damage, leg power attacks for slow, increased knockdown chance on power attacks, and killing blows with power attacks refill your stamina meter when you collect all the books :).  Maybe one day Sledge will get it's own book too.
 

 

50 minutes ago, Khalagar said:
Weapon Damage DPS Speed Range Stamina Stun
Spear C B A+ S B+ D
Club A A A C+ B+ A
Sledge S D F B F S
Fire Axe A B+ A A B+ B+
Knuckles B A S F S A+ / S
Machete D C A+ B A C
Stun Baton F F B+ B A F? / ???
Junk Sledge F B S S SSS SSS


You're sleeping on Spears quite alot here.  Spears are fantastic weapons.  The throw has huge stagger/knockdown where even body throws knock an enemy down with 2 normally.  If you're more accurate and can hit head throws it's even better.  Normal attacks are defintiley weak on spears having only range.  So basic combat scenario is either a double throw to knockdown and then running up to finish, throw one and then jab with the other, or throw one and then spike the head with a second throw on the knockdown.  I'm not good enough for head shots consistently but they still do real work even with thrown body shots.  And the biggest thing is, stealth spear throwing.  You can 1 shot so many zombies from stealth with spears.  They are incredibly powerful.  The only real thing they need now is for both spears to go back to your toolbelt if you throw them.  They also have their own spear hunter book series that further increases throw speed and range, increases their damage, makes rapid stabs do 10% more per stab up to +30%, and make power attacks do 50% more to downed targets.  Spears are prolly one of the strongest melee weapons if you include the stealth aspects.  But in normal combat they are good but not best.

Stun baton is an outlier here since you can wield 2 turrets with it so it's not as powerful because of that.  Stun Baton seems to be intended to be used with the turrets or not at all.

Machete is deceptively powerful when used well.  In a straight up fight it's weaker than the others but it's the single best melee weapon (rivaled only by the hunting knife) at killing daytime wandering hordes.  Dot em all up with bleeds and let em die :P.  Hit a zombie with one power attack headshot/body shot and move to the next.  The bleed damage from a single power attack is like 80+ over 20 seconds IIRC PLUS the damage from the strike itself.  For POI usage though you'll prolly be sneak attacking with a power attack in an agility build.  Assuming your not using bows of course.

 

50 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

As for fighting a group with any melee weapon . . .yeah no. I mean you can, depending on what the group is, but if you round the corner into 4 irradiated wights and 5 feral military guys with your knuckles out, they will take them off your hands (with your fingers still in them) and  give your sphincter a knuckle rub with them for you. I wouldn't even use a sledge in a situation like that, that's pure 100% "Oh ****!!!" Shotgun time while you hammer that S key for dear life

For daytime groups you isolate the 1-2 feral/rads and eliminate and then mop up the rest.  The game gives you plenty of tools for this.  Doors, blocks, spikes, etc.  Anything more than 2 feral/rad is ranged weapon preferred territory but throwing down a cobblestone block in the bottom of a doorway and then pummeling their faces works too :P.  Sometimes I'll set up my own chokepoints if one doesn't exist.  I've even set the occasional mine behind a closed door for funsies :P.  Most folks have a very narrow view of the possibilities of combat in the game, but there are alot of options.  I've done a few "benny hill music around the counter in the kitchen smacking them in the head" dances before haha :). 

For all the non-ferals/rads though taking out a group with melee is cake :).  Painting an encounter out as 4 rad wights and 5 feral soldiers is a bit disingenuous though.  You won't see that kind of crazy outside of treasure rooms normally.

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)

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9 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

@faatal

 

When you play 7dtd and say something happens like you're Game Crashes or Power outage while playing and you log back into you're game and you.

  • Spawn in a random area (like the spawn points around them map)
  • spawn with the beginning items
  • you're level 1 and lost everything
  • But everything in the map is still there. Bases, POIs, and everything you explored on you're map is still there! (both In game and the Mini map)

is it suppose to do this? this also happen to MechanicalLens.

 

it kinda sucks to deal with :(

 

I don't lose power very often and I have a UPS on my PC and monitors, so that has never happened to me.

 

I'm sure it does suck. The more often a game saves files, the more likely a file will be in the process of saving when you lose power and be incomplete or corrupted. We have a big world and save a lot of data. We could probably keep multiple copies of the player and some of the other smaller save files and rotate through them. Then a way to load the most recent one that validates as good, but those are not trivial changes. Your best bet now is to backup your game save folder(s) before you start or after you end a play session. There are probably some good backup programs that could do it or 7zip the folder.

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@faatalI've noticed the game plays brilliantly for me (personally) but when entering a new area the game stutters a fair chunk for a few minutes then is perfect again. My train of though is because I'm entering a new area the map has to generate/populate/render. If my train of thought is correct is there anyway to fully generate/populate/render before starting the game to make things smoother?

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If you spec into shotguns, then the blunderbuss is so OP with 3+ on your belt.  *Boom-Boom-Boom*  as fast as you can read that you can fire them!

-No stamina loss = no food loss.

-Rock, Paper, scissors er, Gunpowder (made in your hands even, for gods sake).

-Killing 2 or 3 normal zombies with one shot is always a fun sub-game for me!

 

I've stop squealing with delight when I find my first blunderbuss (usually in my first few days), but I still can't wipe the smile off my face!  LOL

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

<_<

*snip*

  Hide contents

 

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Sweet melee fighting.  Looked like a lot of fun.  Especially when that soldier and darlene came barreling at ya... 😅

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

spacer.pngspacer.png

3 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

lub laughes at even irradiated ferals because they'll never get off the ground while you keep doing 200% bonus damage swings to them.  AND clubs do 100% bonus damage every 3rd hit. 


rest snipped for space

 

Yeaaaaaahhhh you should just go test  this. I've been testing this every possible way I can, and it's just not happening.

 

Test Results below to save some space for the poor other people in this thread who don't want to read about how melee is not viable at high game stage on higher difficulties


 

Spoiler

 

Test criteria - new  character used console commands to give exp to raise level to 40 and max out strength, pummel pete, skull crusher, miner 69, heavy armor, and sex rex. Was level 40 for all tests besides the final for fun one

 

Spawned in a full set of steel armor + steel club, steel axe, steel sledge + mods for all + Batter Up Magazine Line. 

 

Mods were stuff like this as well as stamina and armor mods for the armor

 

image.png.7c6b1ed79b6efaeb2d8dd7879a0c4584.png

 

Test zombie = Irradiated Wights. I tested each run 3-9+ times for consistency

 

Results 

 

1 vs 1 = All easily beat an irradiated feral 1 vs 1 with minimal danger. Sledge actually got me hit sometimes, and sometimes Axe would get me hit once. Relies purely on RNG to stagger for both, none consistently stagger, but Club had the best results if it got an RNG knock down

 

1 vs 2 = All 3 barely passed. None were remotely reliable or anything I would ever say you should do, but they all 3 did it consistently every time. I was hit multiple times on every single test and limped away half dead covered in lacerations and broken bones

 

1 vs 3 = lolno, I was only able  to clear this ONE TIME on club, and not once on anything else. Died horribly each time, best I could do was *sometimes* get a kill on one before dying.  The one time I won, I had 20 health left and was covered in multiple wounds with so much blood on the screen I couldn't even see, and I only won because the club got multiple super lucky knock downs while I piled on stuns on each downed enemy while trying to tank the other two

 

 

I tested 1 vs 4+ but it was pointless, just not happening. A single group of 2 Irradiated Wights was a very dangerous fight that had me limping away with injuries every single time, 3 irradiated was flat out "Not Happening" territory.

 

Sledge performed quite badly, even with sex rex and the stamina grip, it obliterates your stamina almost instantly and your ONLY chance is if it lands an AoE knock down, which is not consistent, and in the 3+ group there just wasn't enough stamina to capitalize on it. 1 vs 1 it was mixed results, if I got the knock down I would easily win, but if it only staggered I'd take 1-3 hits because the stagger wears off before you can even attack again. 1 vs 2 was the same, but worse, and in 1 vs 3 it was pure rip

 

Club is very good in 1 vs 1, but there is absolutely no "Being able to chest hit a zed and knock him down guaranteed no matter what the zed is" like you mentioned. Club's stagger a bit, but their knock down is absolutely not 100% on a standing enemy, it took 1-4+ hits to trigger even 1 vs 1

 

Axe did as well / better than the Sledge in 1 vs 1, and was very similar in 1 vs 2. Relied on rng knockdowns like everything else, if it got them it would do fine, if it didn't, I would get the crap beat out of me

 

Over all, results were Club > Axe >> Sledge in consistency and how much health I walked away with

 

 

Fun fact, after I was done with the above I ran the test again with max perk and magazine Junk Sledges, 2 placed + 1 handheld and it's the only one that cleared the 3 feral test easily lol. Junk Sledge objectively is the safest melee weapon, if you have time to set it up apparently! I just set two in front of me on an open road and stood behind them holding down M1. It killed all 3, it just took freaking forever. Took like 35 minutes in game to kill the 3, but I only took a couple of hits!

 

ZAnw2id.jpg

 

 

 

TLDR; Results = Against irradiated Wights, All 3 are good in 1 vs 1, None are "good" in 1 vs 2 but all passed with fairly similar results (me half dead and covered in injuries), none are remotely viable in 1 vs 3 and are almost certain death if you just rounded a corner into them, but Junk Sledge can actually clear a small army of Irradiated Wights lol. Hurray for stun locking!

 

3 hours ago, Ralathar44 said:

Painting an encounter out as 4 rad wights and 5 feral soldiers is a bit disingenuous though.  You won't see that kind of crazy outside of treasure rooms normally.

 

Yeah, I agree. But that's why I say Axe does the job "well enough" for your normal every day situations  to not spend points on other melee weapons since Miner 69 is a solid perk many builds appreciate. When clearing a PoI, just rolling in with your normal guns as a back up and using your axe for anything smaller than a horde of ferals and irradiated saves points.

 

I need to test spear and machete more, I just usually only use the spear early game since it sucks to lose all your mods when it flies off into the void and falls through the map, and machete is just "why would I use this?" territory where it takes more time to stack bleed than to just bonk them over the head a couple of times with a strength weapon

 

Obvsly though, it's fun to use other builds, I just want my boy the trust Fire Axe to get it's deserved love! More people should try my above test, only takes a couple of minutes to set up and run through each weapon and build.

 

  

47 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

Sweet melee fighting.  Looked like a lot of fun.  Especially when that soldier and darlene came barreling at ya... 😅

 

I won't lie, they jump scared me when I rounded the corner and checked the wardrobe and almost got taken out by the fat momma haha

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Khalagar said:

 

I use Fire Axe even without Sex Rex, but yeah I wouldn't use it if I didn't have Miner 69 because it definitely wouldn't do as much damage without that.

 

It has AoE to some degree, it often staggers ones near my target but I don't know the % chance. It basically always knocks down single target though, I don't know if it even has a chance not to.  Even in the video on the feral military zombie it staggered him on 2/4 hits and he never got an attack off besides the initial one he hit me with, which was mostly just me dealing with OBS stuttering my game while recording

 

I'm not saying Sledge doesn't have more stagger, just that the Axe has "enough" on it's own. Watch my video if you don't believe me, it staggers or knocks down literally every single zombie it didn't one shot.

 

That's why I say the Axe is good  in all stats, but it's only S tier in block damage. Stamina, Range, Damage, Attacks Per Second, Block Damage, it's basically A tier in all of them. Sledge has S tier damage and F tier speed and stamina, Spear has S tier range and C tier damage etc. The others all have trade offs, but the Axe and Club line are basically "I'm really good at everything but am not the absolute *best* at anything".

 

I think Axe beats club because Miner 69 is like 400 thousand times more useful than Pummel Pete, especially when the end result is just two very similar weapons. The Axe is a bit slower and takes more stamina than the club I think, but the block damage is much higher so that's why I say they are side grades to each other.

 

 

Like if you made a tier list of the weapons, it would look something like (Note, range seems basically broken in A19, you can hit zombies at SUPER long range with basically anything)

 

 

Weapon Damage DPS Speed Range Stamina Stun
Spear C B A+ S B+ D
Club A A A C+ B+ A
Sledge S D F B+ / A F S
Fire Axe A B+ A A B+ B+
Knuckles B A S F S A+ / S
Machete D C A+ B A C
Stun Baton F F B+ B A F? / ???
Junk Sledge F B S S SSS SSS

 

Disclaimer - (ratings not exact because I don't have the game open with full builds for each weapon type in front of me etc)

 

You basically end up with the different stuff having different pros and cons, but two stand out as basically being "pretty good" at everything with no major downsides (at least while melee range is buggy). The Club and The Fire Axe are great all around. They have "Enough" in basically every way that you don't *have* to make concessions. 

 

As for fighting a group with any melee weapon . . .yeah no. I mean you can, depending on what the group is, but if you round the corner into 4 irradiated wights and 5 feral military guys with your knuckles out, they will take them off your hands (with your fingers still in them) and  give your sphincter a knuckle rub with them for you. I wouldn't even use a sledge in a situation like that, that's pure 100% "Oh ****!!!" Shotgun time while you hammer that S key for dear life

 

I mostly consider melee for 1-5~ish zombies depending on how many are running. In groups that size, the Axe, Club, and Sledge all perform quite well. Machete, Stun Baton, and Spear leave much to be desired, and Knuckles require the magazine line + a lot of perks so it's hit or miss and they are late game. 

 

Junk Sledge is . . .really weird in handheld mode, it will throw them all over the place but not kill them, but in placement mode it's a fantastic ally if you have enough points and magazines in it. It attacks so fast it can actually dish out okay damage despite it's ridiculously bad damage per hit, but it ragdolls them away so it doesn't actually get that many hits on them before they get yeeted out of the battlefield.  In placement mode with it guarding a door or something, it's SSS tier, in handheld I want to say it's F tier but it's really not, I'd take it over a Machete or Spear or Stun Baton for sure because it will stagger the zombie while you run away

You're underrating Sledge DPS a lot here. It regularly instant kills multiple targets per swing later on by procing dismemberment on the head on multiple targets at once. It's actually the highest DPS melee weapon in the game (at least SS tier) by a landslide. I'll give you the swing speed and stamina though. One thing to consider though, is the higher tiers of Sexy Trex combined with the extreme deadliness of the sledge erase your stamina issues.

 

I regularly chug a coffee and nearly exclusively power attack hordes with a sledge with almost no stamina issues.

Edited by Ranzera (see edit history)

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1 minute ago, Ranzera said:

You're underrating Sledge DPS a lot here. It regularly instant kills multiple targets per swing later on by procing dismemberment on the head on multiple targets at once. It's actually the highest DPS melee weapon in the game (at least SS tier) by a landslide. I'll give you the swing speed and stamina though.

 

Huh, didn't know it could do that! Just tested it since I still had my test arena open  and it can definitely flatten a group of Darlene, but I actually had a way easier time with the Axe and Club vs 10 Darlene. The Sledge can hit multiple and knock them down, but even with sex rex I would run out of stamina mid fight, where as the Axe and Club can just one shot them while back peddling and get stamina back.

 

Definitely a point in the sledges favor though, if it's stamina drain was so ridiculous would help it a LOT in these tests. I guess if you went in after a hearty meal and black strap coffee you could probably do some serious work with it, but if you have that much prep time . . .just use a shotgun or junk sledges lol

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1 minute ago, Khalagar said:

 

Huh, didn't know it could do that! Just tested it since I still had my test arena open  and it can definitely flatten a group of Darlene, but I actually had a way easier time with the Axe and Club vs 10 Darlene. The Sledge can hit multiple and knock them down, but even with sex rex I would run out of stamina mid fight, where as the Axe and Club can just one shot them while back peddling and get stamina back.

 

Definitely a point in the sledges favor though, if it's stamina drain was so ridiculous would help it a LOT in these tests. I guess if you went in after a hearty meal and black strap coffee you could probably do some serious work with it, but if you have that much prep time . . .just use a shotgun or junk sledges lol

My edit addresses that.

 

The high tiers of Sexy Trex refund 30 stamina per kill. I regularly endlessly power attack hordes with only coffee.

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1 hour ago, AaronG85 said:

@faatalI've noticed the game plays brilliantly for me (personally) but when entering a new area the game stutters a fair chunk for a few minutes then is perfect again. My train of though is because I'm entering a new area the map has to generate/populate/render. If my train of thought is correct is there anyway to fully generate/populate/render before starting the game to make things smoother?

I don't know what that would be. Loading happens in the background and should be a few seconds of reduced FPS.

 

The next version has some changes to loading/unloading and texture streaming, so it may be better.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, AaronG85 said:

@faatalI've noticed the game plays brilliantly for me (personally) but when entering a new area the game stutters a fair chunk for a few minutes then is perfect again. My train of though is because I'm entering a new area the map has to generate/populate/render. If my train of thought is correct is there anyway to fully generate/populate/render before starting the game to make things smoother?

I only experience this when entering the game. My character spawns and within 2 seconds the game freezes for about 3 seconds and then I can play endless without any issues at all. 

Edited by Fren (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Yeaaaaaahhhh you should just go test  this. I've been testing this every possible way I can, and it's just not happening.

 

Test Results below to save some space for the poor other people in this thread who don't want to read about how melee is not viable at high game stage on higher difficulties

Your tests are actually perfectly in line with what I said.  Club is one of the best melee weapons in the game and your limit for comfortably taking on enemies ended at the 2 feral/rad cap like I mentioned :P.   You CAN take on more with melee after that, but you need to start using spikes and block chokepoints like a doorway where you fill the bottom block with cobblestone and etc to control the battlefield.  All of this was mentioned at the bottom of my last reply :).

Specific weapon commentary: 

 

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Club is very good in 1 vs 1, but there is absolutely no "Being able to chest hit a zed and knock him down guaranteed no matter what the zed is" like you mentioned. Club's stagger a bit, but their knock down is absolutely not 100% on a standing enemy, it took 1-4+ hits to trigger even 1 vs 1


Club: Performed as expected.  Club is a GD beast.  The chest hit knockdown comment was in relation to the sledge power attack, not the club.  Either you misinterpreted or I was not clear, one of the two.  The sledge power attack has a 100% knockdown on primary target and 60% in AOE.  Club's knockdown power is different, if you power attack a zed you've knocked down that is in the getting up animation it'll slam it back down to the ground.  So once you've grounded something with the club you can keep it grounded.

Sledge: The AOE knockdown is primarily useful vs non-feral/non-rad trash that spawns with the ferals/rad.  You use the guaranteed knockdowns I mentioned earlier to help keep 2 feral/rad on their butts when not staggered and the AOE knockdown keeps the trash from swarming you.  You'll want sexy rexy + ergo grip + drink for heavy sledgehammer combat.  Eat food for the stamina buff now too. 
 

 

Ideally you'll want to practice on different zombies so you know their stagger thresholds with normal attacks.  Your goal isn't to kill when in challenging situations, it's to CC them until they are dead. (which is still headshot focused!)  The kills will just happen naturally during that process.  So you can stagger what you need with a normal attack don't waste the stamina for a power attack if you don't need atm.  As long as you're alive, they will all die, it's not a DPS battle it's a CC battle.  Power attacking when you don't specifically need to is a good way to die as a sledge user.  Every swing counts and it's a much more advanced weapon to use in challenging situations than all other melee even though it's faceroll  against easy stuff it can 1 shot.  And as the other poster mentioned the instant headsplosion is a big deal.  One that does not apply to Axe.


Junk Sledges:  You used 3 weapons :P.  OFC it did better haha.  Stun Baton backed by 2 Junk turrets could prolly take on everything the sledges took on too.  Int, with the combined power of all it's arsenal, deals significant stagger damage and keeps things on their butts more often than not.  I've yet to test out the new AP junk turret ammo and shotgun junk turret ammo :P.  That being said it is indeed amusing :).  This kind of stuff is why Int is hands down the best POI clearing skillset in the game.  The damage is middling compared to proper firearms but the CC is fantastic and you can minimize your risk. 

Axe:  I agree with you that it can be used to save what you need to carry and work against trash enemies pretty well with a reliance on ranged if things get challenging.  But that's only an option for strength and miner69er and motherload are not actually needed anymore.  POIs now provide a solid source of wood, stone, cobblestones, cement, all metals, and treasure hunts provide a solid source of clay.  The only thing you might ever need to mine is oil shale and you'll only need to do that one overnight mining session for a ridiculous amount of gas produced.  In update A16 and before being able to focus miner69er and motherload would be ace, but in the current state of the game it's a fairly weak advantage that comes with the tradeoff of being weaker in melee.
 

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Axe did as well / better than the Sledge in 1 vs 1, and was very similar in 1 vs 2. Relied on rng knockdowns like everything else, if it got them it would do fine, if it didn't, I would get the crap beat out of me

I don't believe normal damage knockdowns are RNG.  IIRC, and in my experience, zeds have some sort of stagger hp bar you deplete that recovers when you're not hitting it or after being knocked down.  The damage you do to that bar is determined by weapon and another reliable factor like damage.  If you hit the same zombie with the same attack in the same place the same number of times you will get incredibly reliable staggers and knockdowns.  Axe is a heavy 2h weapon and so it does a good amount of what I'll just call "stagger damage", especially on power attacks.  Unless I miss my guess I'd wager that the "pain resistance" that they modified for dogs/dire wolves/mountain lions in the patch notes is referring to this system and that would represent how resistant the entities are to being staggered or knocked down.

I'm pretty sure zombies will still stagger and get knocked down with AI turned off so since you like testing just turn their AI off and counter your hits with normal attacks and power attacks.  Variance should be from using a different type of attack, the part of body you hit with your attacks (head vs torso vs limbs), and your aim (direct hit vs glancing blow).  When I did dedicated weapon testing before I don't remember it varying any.  If I didn't miss they staggered and got knocked down as expected.
 

 

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

I need to test spear and machete more, I just usually only use the spear early game since it sucks to lose all your mods when it flies off into the void and falls through the map, and machete is just "why would I use this?" territory where it takes more time to stack bleed than to just bonk them over the head a couple of times with a strength weapon


Club, axe, knuckles play pretty standard with their own minor twists.  Sledge, Machete/Knife, and Spear all play quite differently from everything else.  Int is Cthulhu :P. 

It does NOT take time to stack bleed.  A single power attack with blades applies 5 stacks of bleed (when skilled with deep cuts), super fast power attacks with knives and still pretty fast with machete.  Minimal stamina use.  It takes time for the bleed to do it's full damage though.  Great for hit and run tactics, clears non feral/rad groups faster than anything else for sure since it ends up one shotting most zeds if you let them bleed out and it swings faster than other weapons with no stamina issues so you can clear trash zeds fast too. 

Agility benefits greatly from investing in it's stealth perks though.  With full cloth armor, full sneak skill, and a few mufflers I'm power attack stabbing zombies in the head for 5.5x normal damage :).  Just remember to keep your helmet light off and once your stealth gets high enough you can start stealth killing entire POIs with bow and then with better stealth even knife/machete.  If you notice zombies alerting when you crouch into a room with full cloth, full sneak, and a few mufflers then turn off your head light :P.

Spear and Sledge both take alot of practice to do well since both accuracy and approach are critical.  Knife/Machete is easy enough once you change how you think about combat since it's pretty "safe" either by virtue of stealth or by virtue of kiting.  It should be mentioned bleed applies a 10% slow to zombies, which helps with said kiting :P.

 

2 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Obvsly though, it's fun to use other builds, I just want my boy the trust Fire Axe to get it's deserved love! More people should try my above test, only takes a couple of minutes to set up and run through each weapon and build.

Always friend, always :).  I can't wait to test out the new turret ammos in my next run!

Edited by Ralathar44 (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

Question: what does more damage from the get-go? A stealth shot with a stone spear to the head, or the x3.5 multiplier with a headshot with a primitive bow and stone arrows? Asking for science. :)

Edited by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

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9 hours ago, Gromit said:

I honestly think you guys are missing a trick not allowing us to salvage objects from POIs intact. There's so many nice new objects, signs, posters that you could use in your base, but you can't take, make or even from the looks of things buy them. Honestly, I'd love to be able to bring home objects for my base (like we used to be able to with the old fridge for instance), it'd be another reason to go out and hit certain POIs.

 

I know you can get them from the creative cheat menu but I hate having to use that thing. I have to use it for a lot of missing blocks and to make painting less of a clickfest. Hope this part of the game gets some love at some point.

Can confirm, my friends would love that feature. Right now their meme is picking up every single potted plant, there's like dozens in our base on every little flat surface, in every playthrough. I can't take it anymore lol

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, AaronG85 said:

@faatalI've noticed the game plays brilliantly for me (personally) but when entering a new area the game stutters a fair chunk for a few minutes then is perfect again. My train of though is because I'm entering a new area the map has to generate/populate/render. If my train of thought is correct is there anyway to fully generate/populate/render before starting the game to make things smoother?

Check your AV settings, maybe have it exclude the game save file directory.

Edited by Jost Amman
Typo (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, beHypE said:

Can confirm, my friends would love that feature. Right now their meme is picking up every single potted plant, there's like dozens in our base on every little flat surface, in every playthrough. I can't take it anymore lol

You better not tell them that you can craft potted plants. ;)

 

Edit: Meanwhile, my meme has always been chairs. I began collecting them, painting them. Heck, I even made a religion out of them. The Chair Religion, which rose to become the Chair Empire.

 

vaxlwzdhdqk41.thumb.png.02c580a350e745d702d615236090a27e.png

Edited by MechanicalLens (see edit history)
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Haha that's amazing. I won't show them that picture tho, sorry. 😂

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1 minute ago, beHypE said:

Haha that's amazing. I won't show them that picture tho, sorry. 😂

Better not, or they might chairish it! Ohhhh!

 

*Badum tss*

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1 hour ago, Ralathar44 said:

Specific weapon commentary:

That's essentially what the design is. =P

 

As far as I can tell, all attributes are viable in melee and ranged. Even Intellect can work with either melee or ranged but it's a good bit more involved than club-go-thunk.

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