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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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1 minute ago, Gazz said:

Augers are good because you can mine effectively even with minimal mining perks.

 

Not everyone uses them, though.

They aren't as good for a relaxed mining session and are very noisy which is not always desired.

1. I agree utterly and completely.

2. I also disagree. Changeable sound options exist for a reason. ;) No, not everyone has to use the auger, but one could always turn the game volume down to 0 and listen to a podcast or what have you. The main benefit of the auger for me anyway is without it I would have to mine every night - 5 stacks of stone? 4 stacks into 2 forges and the final stack as an ingredient for concrete mix, or I'll have to turn all of it into sand - and instead I can just mine for an entire night and have enough stone for a few days. But again, to each their own. :)

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2 hours ago, Gazz said:

There can not be a lot of progression on shovels because

- dirt does not have a lot of hit points and isn't supposed to

- stone tools must be decent

- progression must leave room for bonuses from both perks and quality level

 

There really isn't a lot of wiggle room there due to them having to be consistent with other tools.

 

OTOH, I'm happy to see that the value of stone shovels is one of the biggest issues with 7DTD by now.

As Ranzera said, it's not much a problem with progression (which is there and it's fine), it's more of a problem of making the higher tier worth the hassle over the lower tier, which apparently, in the case of the stone shovel, has some issues you'll probably want to look into.

 

Anyway thanks for the great work you've been doing BTW! 🙂

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15 hours ago, Gazz said:

We know.

Like I've said several time: Not happening in A19.

Given that I understandably haven't read 500+ pages of this thread, I wouldn't know what you've said several times, and honestly, I don't know what you're saying this time.  Are you saying that loot is not tied to game stage?  If not, then how is I am only getting low tier loot regardless of the POI, and i'm hearing from others that are further along that they are only getting high tier stuff.  I hope you haven't tied it to game days - that would be even weirder. In multiplayer, people join a server at different times...

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Ralathar44 said:

Axe was a viable weapon for an update

 

Dude the Fire Axe is a beast, I'm kind of scared to harp on it here and get it nerfed, but . . .yeah. Do some testing with it after perking into Miner 69 and then quietly start using it without telling others that it can 1 shot zombies extremely consistently on the second hardest difficulty. It's honestly the best melee weapon IMO, and I say that as someone who is fully perked into Skull Crusher and Sex Rex and has been using a level 6 steel sledge for ages

 

Stamina cost, damage, range, it's A tier in all stats and S tier in block damage. Oops, I mean, it's trash, only dumbotron would use it for melee

Edited by Khalagar (see edit history)
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17 minutes ago, Lorca said:

Given that I understandably haven't read 500+ pages of this thread, I wouldn't know what you've said several times, and honestly, I don't know what you're saying this time.  Are you saying that loot is not tied to game stage?  If not, then how is I am only getting low tier loot regardless of the POI, and i'm hearing from others that are further along that they are only getting high tier stuff.  I hope you haven't tied it to game days - that would be even weirder. In multiplayer, people join a server at different times...

You don't have to read 500+ pages of this thread. Follow the content of Gazz, Madmole, and faatal and you can get the info you are wanting without all the extra noise. 

 

Loot is tied to gamestage. Enemies are tied to gamestage.

Individual POIs and biomes cannot currently be assigned gamestage modifiers but they will in the future.

 

Thus, while in the Forest biome you will be at your basic gamestage whereas in the burnt forest you might be at gamestage +30 or in the wasteland-- gamestage +50 which means tougher monsters guarding better loot than in the Forest.

 

In addition, that radiated Firestation might be gamestage +80 whereas the simple home next to it might be gamestage -10. Go in the home and you'll one-hit kill anything that comes at you and enjoy some nice new stone axes whereas right next door there will be ferals inside with pump shotguns in the crates. Now mix and match and stack those modifiers for POI's together with the biomes where they are located and you will have a variety of loot you can get if you are willing to take a chance.

 

The system they have planned will also mean that it won't have to always be that particular Firestation that is always going to be gamestage +80 every time you play.

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28 minutes ago, Lorca said:

Given that I understandably haven't read 500+ pages of this thread, I wouldn't know what you've said several times, and honestly, I don't know what you're saying this time.  Are you saying that loot is not tied to game stage?  If not, then how is I am only getting low tier loot regardless of the POI, and i'm hearing from others that are further along that they are only getting high tier stuff.  I hope you haven't tied it to game days - that would be even weirder. In multiplayer, people join a server at different times...

Loot is tied to gamestage.

 

What has been said many times is that in the future, they hope to be able to make higher tier pois have an automatic bonus to loot stage, as well as an automatic bonus to the strength of the enemies you encounter. Also, giving certain biomes bonus loot stage and enemy strength. But that will be coming in a future alpha, and will not be added in a19.

 

Clearing a tier 5 poi at level 3 means you are facing wimpy, beginner zombies so you get wimpy, beginner loot.

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The only difference to A18 is that it now looks like a fantasy battle axe so more players are using it.

 

There are very few cases of actual historic double bladed axes. 99% of the ones you find nowadays are replicas of.... fantasy art.

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9 minutes ago, Gazz said:

few cases of actual historic double bladed axes.

The men who had those commissioned tended to not return from their lumber expeditions after unlucky backswing accidents....

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54 minutes ago, Lorca said:

Given that I understandably haven't read 500+ pages of this thread, I wouldn't know what you've said several times, and honestly, I don't know what you're saying this time.  Are you saying that loot is not tied to game stage?  If not, then how is I am only getting low tier loot regardless of the POI, and i'm hearing from others that are further along that they are only getting high tier stuff.  I hope you haven't tied it to game days - that would be even weirder. In multiplayer, people join a server at different times...

If you did read my reply to your first question the other day... you'd know where to look:

https://community.7daystodie.com/profile/4857-gazz/

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16 minutes ago, Gazz said:

The only difference to A18 is that it now looks like a fantasy battle axe so more players are using it.

 

I had a lot of Reddit threads during A17 and A18 on it being the best melee weapon, so I'm glad it wasn't changed!

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Regarding the stone vs iron debate, lots of good suggestions have been made. I think the best and easiest way would be to give a passive motherlode as someone stated, maybe 10% for iron tools & 20% for steel tools. Any balancing to damage / number of hits is a huge can of worms, especially since the top soil has 250hp and the underlying layers only have 200hp.

 

While the issue is most obviously seen with the shovel due to block HP, it's kinda the same with the pickaxe. The game's progression is so dragged out there's a huge chance you find Q5+ tools of a tier before you find Q1-Q2 of the next tier, which in turn means progressing to the next "age" is very often meaningless, especially if you have mods. It kind of defeats the purpose and excitement of advancing a tier. While it makes sense a fully modded Q6 of any tier to be better than a Q1 of the next tier, I think Q3+ should be an almost guaranteed upgrade. 

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13 hours ago, beHypE said:

The thing is, this is the only thread that the devs read on a consistent basis. It's only natural people voice their concerns here. General Discussion isn't dead to be fair, but since no-one from the dev team ever chimes in to speak about future plans or even state they are aware of a problem, it's mostly people arguing until one of them quits. 

 

If you only want to read the answers of the team members, then you should probably check their profiles every now and then. I used to use the dev tracker on 7d2d.rocks but it broke and never got updated ever since the forums changed. 

Accurate. I've come to realise it's a bit of waste of time posting in general because there's always some random willing to argue longer than you, even if they just keep repeating themselves. It is a pity we have to resort to stalking dev profiles to find out what is going on when a diary is the perfect place for it. This is not a diary. It's a forum all on its own, just harder to find stuff.

43 minutes ago, Roland said:

You don't have to read 500+ pages of this thread. Follow the content of Gazz, Madmole, and faatal and you can get the info you are wanting without all the extra noise. 

 

Loot is tied to gamestage. Enemies are tied to gamestage.

Individual POIs and biomes cannot currently be assigned gamestage modifiers but they will in the future.

 

Thus, while in the Forest biome you will be at your basic gamestage whereas in the burnt forest you might be at gamestage +30 or in the wasteland-- gamestage +50 which means tougher monsters guarding better loot than in the Forest.

 

In addition, that radiated Firestation might be gamestage +80 whereas the simple home next to it might be gamestage -10. Go in the home and you'll one-hit kill anything that comes at you and enjoy some nice new stone axes whereas right next door there will be ferals inside with pump shotguns in the crates. Now mix and match and stack those modifiers for POI's together with the biomes where they are located and you will have a variety of loot you can get if you are willing to take a chance.

 

The system they have planned will also mean that it won't have to always be that particular Firestation that is always going to be gamestage +80 every time you play.

That sounds pretty awesome.

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10 minutes ago, beHypE said:

Regarding the stone vs iron debate, lots of good suggestions have been made. I think the best and easiest way would be to give a passive motherlode as someone stated, maybe 10% for iron tools & 20% for steel tools. Any balancing to damage / number of hits is a huge can of worms, especially since the top soil has 250hp and the underlying layers only have 200hp.

 

While the issue is most obviously seen with the shovel due to block HP, it's kinda the same with the pickaxe. The game's progression is so dragged out there's a huge chance you find Q5+ tools of a tier before you find Q1-Q2 of the next tier, which in turn means progressing to the next "age" is very often meaningless, especially if you have mods. It kind of defeats the purpose and excitement of advancing a tier. While it makes sense a fully modded Q6 of any tier to be better than a Q1 of the next tier, I think Q3+ should be an almost guaranteed upgrade. 

This could cause imbalance unless Mother Lode went to the chopping block, or at least for a trim. A passive harvest bonus to the higher tier tools would only encourage players to upgrade, but the way I see it, it fails to address what comes next. Why would players put 5, even 4, or even 3, points into Mother Lode if iron/steel tools gave them this bonus inherently? I'm not arguing against this suggestion, just something to think about. It's all about balance at the end of the day.

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2 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

This could cause imbalance unless Mother Lode went to the chopping block, or at least for a trim. A passive harvest bonus to the higher tier tools would only encourage players to upgrade, but the way I see it, it fails to address what comes next. Why would players put 5, even 4, or even 3, points into Mother Lode if iron/steel tools gave them this bonus inherently? I'm not arguing against this suggestion, just something to think about. It's all about balance at the end of the day.

What ? If anything it would make motherlode even better if it's a multiplier of the base efficiency that would thus be 110%/120% instead of 100%. Indeed, it encourages to upgrade, which is kind of the point... I mean, how exciting is it for a new player to find a iron pickaxe on day 10-15 only to realise it totally sucks compared to the stone axe he had since day 1 ? Like I said, a fully modded Q6 stone axe vs 1 mod Q1 iron axe ? Yeah, keep the stone axe. As soon as you have 2 mod slots to your pickaxe, it should become better imo.

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1 minute ago, beHypE said:

What ? If anything it would make motherlode even better if it's a multiplier of the base efficiency that would thus be 110%/120% instead of 100%. Indeed, it encourages to upgrade, which is kind of the point... I mean, how exciting is it for a new player to find a iron pickaxe on day 10-15 only to realise it totally sucks compared to the stone axe he had since day 1 ? Like I said, a fully modded Q6 stone axe vs 1 mod Q1 iron axe ? Yeah, keep the stone axe. As soon as you have 2 mod slots to your pickaxe, it should become better imo.

Still, my points stands - it would just devalue the mother lode perk imo - but perhaps I'm a hypocrite since I personally believe that the machete should give the player more resources back than the hunting knife, and the hunting knife more than the bone knife. But that's a whole other can of worms that doesn't need to be spilled right now.

I do agree though, finding a level 1 or level 2 iron pickaxe and having it be immediately outclassed by your level 4, 5, or 6 stone axe is always quite anti-climatic. "Oh yay, my first iron tool!... Scrap."

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Posted (edited)

How would it devalue it ? 

Level 5 Motherlode doubles your efficiency, so right now, you get 200% resources.

With a 20% steel shovel base efficiency bonus, Motherlode would double 120%, thus you would get 240% resources.

 

As I said, if anything, it would make motherlode even better if the tools improve your base efficiency. Then again you could just add a 10%/20% bonus not being included in base efficiency, so with full motherlode, you'd have 210/220% efficiency instead of 220/240%.

Edited by beHypE (see edit history)
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Tech question: been curious what prevents having select fire weapons like the AK or SMG being either full or semi auto via a control?

 

Kinda seems like a middle mouse click to swith between semi & full should be doable? But I've no idea what Unity can handle..

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1 minute ago, FileMachete said:

Tech question: been curious what prevents having select fire weapons like the AK or SMG being either full or semi auto via a control?

 

Kinda seems like a middle mouse click to swith between semi & full should be doable? But I've no idea what Unity can handle..

Mods fill that feature. Semi-auto trigger mod (1 bullet per click), Burst Trigger Mod (3 bullets), Full Auto Mod.

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1 minute ago, beHypE said:

How would it devalue it ? 

Level 5 Motherlode doubles your efficiency, so right now, you get 200% resources.

With a 20% steel shovel base efficiency bonus, Motherlode would double 120%, thus you would get 240% resources.

 

As I said, if anything, it would make motherlode even better if the tools improve your base efficiency. Then again you could just add a 10%/20% bonus not being included in base efficiency, so with full motherlode, you'd have 210/220% efficiency instead of 220/240%.

Perhaps the word "devalue" was the wrong term to use. Again, it all comes down to balance and whether or not to call the shots. Eventually a developer must put their foot down and say, "You have your cake, and your icing, and your sweet cherry on top, you're not getting anymore." No, adding an extra 10% harvest bonus on the other tools probably won't be game-breaking, but it might get people scratching their chins wondering if they actually need that extra point in Mother Lode... which is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just something to consider.

 

Again, I'm not debating against this idea. I think it's a solid idea come to think about it. I was just skeptical of accepting a new possible mechanic just because it's "ooh, shiny".

 

Just remember that this is all spitballing. Realistically, I only see a minimal stamina depletion nerf for the iron tools in the future (I think madmole already mentioned one?) and that's about it.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, beHypE said:

Mods fill that feature. Semi-auto trigger mod (1 bullet per click), Burst Trigger Mod (3 bullets), Full Auto Mod.

Not what I meant. Yes mods change an -always-full-auto- to an  always-semi or always-burst, but that isn't readily selectable during a fight.

 

The SMG, in my experiance, with it's higher rate of fire can be difficult to single-shot even in normal times. During hordes even the Ak often winds up firing a couple rounds instead of the one I intended.

 

Edit: here's my use case.

 

I prefer to stealth snipe when poi clearing. When I got a decent SMG I put away the pistol and started sniping w the SMG. But I kept sending 2 or 3 rounds when I only wanted 1. Which tends to wake other sleepers.

So I went back to the pistol until I looted a semi-auto mod which I installed into the SMG. Did that for a while then as zeds got tougher I wound up packing two SMGs, one full and one semi auto.

Just felt wrong.

Edited by FileMachete (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Vintorez said:

Have you guys considered trying to implement "dumb" filler zombie spawns? Basically enemies that have more basic AI and internal mechanics that make them viable to spawn in larger numbers to fill out the world.

I was browsing mods for Rimworld, a game that starts to chug even with just a few dozen colonists/creatures in play, and somebody made a mod called Zombieland that uses very simplified bare-bones entities that can be spawned in the hundreds with little performance impact. Wondered if something similar could be done for 7 days for those who want the zombies to have more of a presence in the day-to-day play.

 

Could be like desecrated zombies whose bodies are barely functional anymore. Low health, little to no xp value, basic pathing to approach the player and attack when in range, weak senses make them easy to stealth past and aren't too much of a nuisance to bases. Could give the game a whole new feel between horde nights and POI looting.

Damn that sounds awesome

12 hours ago, faatal said:

Yes. I have several ideas on my todo list, but they are not simple changes. They will need a good amount of R&D. Character controller updates is a big one, but reducing update frequency will cause problems, so it has to be done in a careful manner and time sliced to reduce frame spikes.

I want to hug and kiss you. No homo. Love your work on optimization and AI

Edited by Onarr (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, madmole said:

This is wrong, Iron is 2 points better than stone, but the randomness can make it possible for stone to be better than iron.

Imho the differences between tiers are now way to thin. Stat wise one tier up should be alway significantly better no matter the quality. On side note I feel like stone tools should never get to higher qualities for this very reason. Different tier should have quality cap based on the material:
Stone - max Q2

Iron - Max Q4

Steel - max Q6

It would make sense, because quality of item is severaly limited by material and design used. Also the tiers imho should be balanced around how many hits it needs to break a block. If I can two shot dirt with my stone shovel, I am not going to replace it with anything unless it one shots it.

Edited by Onarr (see edit history)
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Any chance of an update to experimental before the weekend?

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22 minutes ago, Onarr said:

Imho the differences between tiers are now way to thin. Imho stat wise one tier up should be alway significantly better no matter the quality. On side note I feel like stone tools should never get to higher qualities for this very reason. Imho different tier should have quality cap based on the material:
Stone - max Q2

Iron - Max Q4

Steel - max Q6

It would make sense, because quality of item is severaly limited by material and design used. Also the tiers imho should be balanced around how many hits it needs to break a block. If I can two shot dirt with my stone shovel, I am not going to replace it with anything unless it one shots it.

Max Q2 on stone is a bit rough to be fair 😆. But I like the idea. Regardless of the path they choose, I hope they will address the "differences between tiers" that are way too thin like you stated.

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2 minutes ago, beHypE said:

Max Q2 on stone is a bit rough to be fair 😆. But I like the idea. Regardless of the path they choose, I hope they will address the "differences between tiers" that are way too thin like you stated.

I just hope they don't remove all the unique tiers entirely and replace them with "Shovel", "Pickaxe", and "Axe". 😜

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