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Alpha 19 Dev Diary

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16 minutes ago, Forgotten Memes said:

It's a tactic used by people who know they're wrong.  Instead of challenging your reasoning for why it's a bad perk or explaining how they feel it's valuable they target your hyperbole about "nobody" picking it and accuse you of arguing in bad faith.  There's actually a term for this style of argumentation where you take a clearly illogical conclusion and work backwards to try to justify it through fallacious argumentation.  It's called פלפול

Problem is that I didn't use that as a tactic. I made a joke about it in the first line. Then I presented a counter-argument. In follow up posts I discussed asymmetrical design and how not every path to victory needs to represent optimal dps for horde night. 

 

But there is another kind of tactic used by people who know they are wrong and that is known as ad hominem. Your follow up posts have not addressed my counterpoints or faatal's or madmole's views at all but have simply been focused on me being intellectually dishonest in your view. The other tactic you used which I joked about was to claim the unknown majority of players for your own personal set of preferences.

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9 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

I dis all over it! biscuits and gravy is better!. damn it why dont we have a biscuit recipe?

It's even better with fish in the gravy. :D 

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34 minutes ago, Forgotten Memes said:

Not as annoying as people who ignore what feedback is there because they don't want to accept it.   There is nothing false about saying "this is the feedback I'm seeing from others" unless you're trying to claim that it's an outright lie and those who are on forums or posting videos are saying something completely different. 

I agree that there is nothing false about saying that. But you went beyond that. Also disagreeing with feedback or at least not fully accepting it right away is not the same thing as ignoring it. Madmole already stated there is still work to be done with Agility, Intellect, and Perception. So obviously he is not ignoring feedback about those builds. But he isn't going to just change it completely based upon your preferences. 

 

37 minutes ago, Forgotten Memes said:

You'll get more respect by saying you simply don't want to make changes than try to imply there is some silent majority who secretly agrees with you.

I know right....? "Trying to imply" is weak sauce in your book. You have to just come out and post your claim to the majority--straight up like you did. That's the trick.

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Let's forget about this Tuna Fish Gravy on Toast and Spam/Sham/etc. rivalry, alright? The real dual to take sides on is margarine vs butter. ;)

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@Roland Now i'm scared of posting my Perk Rework haha. Just kidding, though it's going to be a long-*ss read.

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2 hours ago, e1ghtbit said:

Hey Madmole, 

Do you think you guys will be using the data being collected from this alpha to adjust perks?  Didn't I read that you're using a company to collect and aggregate datat? 

I would like to think we would sit on the data and you would start to see changes by A20.

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19 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

It's even better with fish in the gravy. :D 

nope, ground breakfast sausage

13 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Let's forget about this Tuna Fish Gravy on Toast and Spam/Sham/etc. rivalry, alright? The real dual to take sides on is margarine vs butter. ;)

butter, hands down. question is salted or unsalted

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Salted Butter. If you're going to do it then go all in.

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38 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

Irl Sham doesn't exist, and "spam" is salted crap.

you just stamped on my Favorite food!

 

i can't forgive you! wrench a mine!

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9 minutes ago, madmole said:

I would like to think we would sit on the data and you would start to see changes by A20.

I think that would put this whole perks and who uses them to bed.  I also think that's probably the most accurate way to get a good feel for how the perk system is performing outside of use few forum goers and our feels.  I have been spec'd for all manner of things since A18 and A19 (rich in dukes!) and I certainly have found things entirely useless for me.  That's just for me though.

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1 minute ago, MechanicalLens said:

Margarine is superior in my opinion. The best brand is probably, "I Can't Believe It's Not Butter!"

ah, your lack of taste is unrefining. away with you.

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1 minute ago, wolfbain5 said:

ah, your lack of taste is unrefining. away with you.

just eat the milk and oil LMAO

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2 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

ah, your lack of taste is unrefining. away with you.

Oh I have taste, trust me. Have you ever tried cooked pork inside of a Kinder Egg? It's delicious, trust me. :)

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Just now, MechanicalLens said:

Oh I have taste, trust me. Have you ever tried cooked pork inside of a Kinder Egg? It's delicious, trust me. :)

DID YOU SAY KINDER EGG!
Fbi Open GIF - Fbi Open Up - Discover & Share GIFs | Anime ...

 

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11 minutes ago, RhinoW said:

@Roland Now i'm scared of posting my Perk Rework haha. Just kidding, though it's going to be a long-*ss read.

Lengthy treatises are not the best way. He will most likely skim it if it too long. The main thing is to keep in mind that while TFP is open to feedback they do have a plan of their own already written up and they have a living document full of ideas that they have discussed and gathered-- so many that some of their favorites are already earmarked for the next game. Presenting them with a full re-work is probably not going to be openly and immediately accepted though there might be parts of it that will make an impact. The key is to do this for yourself because you enjoy thinking about game design and the exercise is inherently fun and interesting to you. That way if it is rejected in part or whole you won't be upset and start ranting that TFP doesn't listen to feedback.

 

You can also submit your idea in the discussions and requests subforum in the Modding forum. It might inspire a modder to implement your reworking of the perks and if so your dream will become a reality regardless of how much or how little Madmole may agree with you.

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6 minutes ago, Roland said:

Lengthy treatises are not the best way. He will most likely skim it if it too long. The main thing is to keep in mind that while TFP is open to feedback they do have a plan of their own already written up and they have a living document full of ideas that they have discussed and gathered-- so many that some of their favorites are already earmarked for the next game. Presenting them with a full re-work is probably not going to be openly and immediately accepted though there might be parts of it that will make an impact. The key is to do this for yourself because you enjoy thinking about game design and the exercise is inherently fun and interesting to you. That way if it is rejected in part or whole you won't be upset and start ranting that TFP doesn't listen to feedback.

 

You can also submit your idea in the discussions and requests subforum in the Modding forum. It might inspire a modder to implement your reworking of the perks and if so your dream will become a reality regardless of how much or how little Madmole may agree with you.

So You're Telling Me There's A Chance | Jim Carrey | Know Your Meme

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3 minutes ago, Roland said:

Lengthy treatises are not the best way. He will most likely skim it if it too long. The main thing is to keep in mind that while TFP is open to feedback they do have a plan of their own already written up and they have a living document full of ideas that they have discussed and gathered-- so many that some of their favorites are already earmarked for the next game. Presenting them with a full re-work is probably not going to be openly and immediately accepted though there might be parts of it that will make an impact. The key is to do this for yourself because you enjoy thinking about game design and the exercise is inherently fun and interesting to you. That way if it is rejected in part or whole you won't be upset and start ranting that TFP doesn't listen to feedback.

 

You can also submit your idea in the discussions and requests subforum in the Modding forum. It might inspire a modder to implement your reworking of the perks and if so your dream will become a reality regardless of how much or how little Madmole may agree with you.

"The key is to do this for yourself because you enjoy thinking about game design and the exercise is inherently fun and interesting to you. That way if it is rejected in part or whole you won't be upset and start ranting that TFP doesn't listen to feedback." 

 

Well that's exactly what i do, i'm a game design student and I absolutely love analyzing and breaking down games, aswell as making game design documents (for my games and other games i like to play aswell). 

 

Although it's a  "remake" the changes aren't that drastic, but it can't be called a small tweak either.

 

As for lengthy, it's mostly in terms of word count, it has the same line of thought behind the current perks stats and descriptions, also written by topics (separated titles, subtitles, descriptions, stats, perk name...etc) so not an eye-sore to read.And yeah, I kind of already have that mentality of letting it go if the feedback isn't listened to, though i'm absolutely confident that these "minor changes" will improve everyone's gameplay and the devs will like them (if they haven't been thought of them already).

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36 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Let's forget about this Tuna Fish Gravy on Toast and Spam/Sham/etc. rivalry, alright? The real dual to take sides on is margarine vs butter. ;)

Depends on what is cheaper, not a big butter or margarine fan for anything other than cooking myself. I prefer cream cheese.

 

25 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

nope, ground breakfast sausage

Fish with brown gravy over toast/biscuits/rice/rolls still beats it out in my book. Not that sausage gravy over toast or biscuits makes a bad meal. Just fish is better. :D 

 

19 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

you just stamped on my Favorite food!

 

i can't forgive you! wrench a mine!

When you learn the difference between a flintlock and a black powder muzzle loading pistol, then maybe.

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1 minute ago, hiemfire said:

Depends on what is cheaper, not a big butter or margarine fan for anything other than cooking myself. I prefer cream cheese.

 

Fish with brown gravy over toast/biscuits/rice/rolls still beats it out in my book. Not that sausage gravy over toast or biscuits makes a bad meal. Just fish is better. :D 

 

When you learn the difference between a flintlock and a black powder muzzle loading pistol, then maybe.

rofl. breach loader for the win! bah, cinnamon rolls with pecans and raisins 

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10 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

So You're Telling Me There's A Chance | Jim Carrey | Know Your Meme

And slightly better than that one... ;)  

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, RhinoW said:

"The key is to do this for yourself because you enjoy thinking about game design and the exercise is inherently fun and interesting to you. That way if it is rejected in part or whole you won't be upset and start ranting that TFP doesn't listen to feedback." 

 

Well that's exactly what i do, i'm a game design student and I absolutely love analyzing and breaking down games, aswell as making game design documents (for my games and other games i like to play aswell). 

 

Although it's a  "remake" the changes aren't that drastic, but it can't be called a small tweak either.

 

As for lengthy, it's mostly in terms of word count, it has the same line of thought behind the current perks stats and descriptions, also written by topics (separated titles, subtitles, descriptions, stats, perk name...etc) so not an eye-sore to read.And yeah, I kind of already have that mentality of letting it go if the feedback isn't listened to, though i'm absolutely confident that these "minor changes" will improve everyone's gameplay and the devs will like them (if they haven't been thought of them already).

The modding community are always looking for something new / different to make.  DF, RH, WotW, GNA, etc. are examples of complete overhauls of different game designs imo.  It is actually not uncommon for some ideas from the modding community to already be in the TFPs idea repository just not implemented for various reasons.

Edited by Laz Man (see edit history)

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6 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

 

 

When you learn the difference between a flintlock and a black powder muzzle loading pistol, then maybe.

GUN WITH POWDER IS GUN WITH POWDER!

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When Madmole said they were gearing up for gold, I doubted. After playing Alpha 19 for some time, I've become a believer. This game feels something like 90% done. Outside of bug fixes, the only areas I see that need improvement are Random Gen, the music system, and (maybe) storyline related lore.. It's both scary and sad that one day we won't have another Alpha to look forward to. I've been with this game since it came out of Kickstarter (I don't back things on Kickstarter). I've watched it evolve from a quirky fun early access game 

 

I'm sure some other people have other metrics they measure the game by. However, this game feels pretty close to complete to me. I personally hope Alpha 20 can wrap things up or get us almost all the way there. I also hope to see other games from The Pimps in the future....maybe another genre of game (like a Diablo style action RPG?) set in the 7DTD universe? Who knows.

 

Side Note: The music has definite Ultima vibes to it in some areas.

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