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Alpha 19 Dev Diary


madmole

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9 hours ago, toores said:

I have never been into mining a lot. Having stamina to break blocks is necessary for every player in a destructibe voxel game.

I just had to break down 5 poles on the roof of a fire department. They were 10k steel + 5k concrete. So each pole was 15k to break. Purple iron pickaxe fully modded, coffee, food... It took pretty long and the stamina waiting ain't the funnest gameplay.
 

I play fortitude-agility build and I'm not too thrilled about having to go into strength at all. But I guess it is inevitable...

 

While talking about perks you must have, do I still need to go full INT to get decent solar stuff?

bro, first of all a 15k hp block is one of the highest you will ever face. 

second, you don't even have miner69 and you're only using an iron pickaxe. you're kidding right?

that's like breaking the big iron chest with a stoneaxe. ofc this is gonna take forever. you're far from the gamestage to tackle things like that. when you got a T6 steelaxe, miner69 5/5 and tyrannosaurus 4/4 then you can hit for a very long time before running low on stamina even without any buffs. I'm level 51 right now in my world. I know what I'm talking about. It would never occur to me to make a post about this just to complain while I'm not even using the approriate tools and perks. Makes you look like a fool with that second sentence.

 

edit: forgot to mention you might be missing the ergonomic grip mod as well

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So far I am loving this experimental, my playthrough has been super lucky so far for my channel, i found a grace farm and the book for super corn by day 5, haha.

 

Other than luck I am enjoying how the looting is tied to gamestage, taking lucky looter aside from looting speed almost seems not needed now, but nice to have.

The combat i feel has more realism and difficulty wrapped into a rotting bow, the zombies not flinching from guns and having melee being smoother (at least i think so) is a nice treat to be sure.

The stumble and fall the zombies do when breaking out of closets or busting the bottom block to break in is fantastic

I have not gotten to try any of the new guns yet but the blunderbuss has shockingly become awesome, i definitely am loving it in a new light (i still wish it had a flintlock pistol as a counterpart with shared ammo lol)

All in all this has been the best alpha update yet, even my computer runs it smoother than the past ones, hurrah to you guys and gals

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37 minutes ago, madmole said:

Whiners are going to whine. It isn't too fast, they are just eating one can of miso that doesn't do much and then complaining. Try telling me you have to eat too often eating gumbo stew. Like fill up and you don't need to eat for a very long time.

You bring up a good point madmole.  My brother made me a tuna gravy toast yesterday and was surprised the food replenishment was 90.  I can see how much you unlocking those, the hunger issue goes away pretty quickly.

 

I like how as a player there is an urgency to make better foods or reach the whining stage...Sounds like what most people would do in an actual apocalypse LOL....

 

"What do you mean i can't go to the grocery store on the corner and get all the food I need?"

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36 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

Maybe the solar Generators could be replaced with a "industrial Generator" where its bigger, Louder but has 3xs the power production!    

That would be nice but if they are going to make Underwater areas they will have to make the water better, Take the fishery for example in Navezgane,  

Oh god they really need to sort the water out, even simple water behaviour like in other voxel games would be better than what we have right now in 7D.

 

Looks lovely yeah but touch it and its a rough broken lump of ka ka.

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13 hours ago, madmole said:

Yes.

Food is a non issue in single player. There might be bugs in MP, which I'm assuming you are referring to?

We did find broken iron gut perks and red tea doesn't work, so that will help those who are struggling (not me in the slightest but I mostly play SP).

I have thought for some time that you would have to have two separate game balance setups. One for single player where loot is reduced but you can get more skill points to round a jack-of-all-trades character. Then a multiplayer setup where there is more loot like food and ammo to deal with the higher numbers but skill points are more limited so as to encourage player to specialize in certain tasks to work better as a team.

Trying to find one set of values to balance both is a fool-hardy task.

1 hour ago, gizmomelb said:

so is b157 pretty stable or is there another build 'coming soon' which will address loot levels etc.?  thank you.

 

I would think 'coming soon'. But don't expect too much in the way of changes to loot levels. Right now they are focused on fixing things not working as intended. Probably won't see any major loot level changes until A19.1

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49 minutes ago, madmole said:

So 9 points, 4 of which are free, by level 5 you can achieve awesome miner status. I don't understand why this seems so painful to people. You have the rest of the game to develop whatever skills you want, and can get cooking and heavy armor too if you choose, because you are already semi invested in STR.

Thze problem with current system is you have skills under trees that makes no sense. Players are complaining because if you like to mine you have to go STR , and always play that way. What does cooking have to do with STR - you stir the stew quicker? :) 

Just make a "general" tree where you have the basic skills everyone is using - like cooking, Living of the land, mining, hunter perks, leaky guts... it would make much more sense and players would have many more options to play around with combat/supplement skills. Personally I always end up with STR since I like to build and therefore I need mining - so since I go deep in STR I never feel the need to use any other tree - other than just to "make me play a different way". STR is totally OP with Sledge and shotgun perks, mining, Trex... no other tree comes close to STR.

Just separate weapons perks from General skills. Make the leveling system less dull - you made a great game, just fix the whole leveling system, which is usually one of biggest parts of good games.

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*Performs a "right over your head" gesture*, WOOSH. It felt like MM selected one part of my whole discussion to reply to, and ignored the rest. Run and Gun should be accessible to everyone, period. It's way too overpowered and enables a non-tower defense style of play, every character should have access to it. Everything else works just fine; With a cigar I can have +1 to strength, then put 2 points into miner 69er and motherlode. Bam, level 3 steel tools are accessible now, even level 3 iron tools to get me started. But how long before you guys remove that +1 strength from the cigar while "rebalancing" everything, like you removed the +3 strength from the steroid, essentially forcing us to waste points into strength when we dont prefer to use any of the weapons it governs? I can have +1 point in living off the land, there, 2 crops per harvest, viable. Don't rebalance that. But Run and Gun is gated behind a purist build. NOBODY who specs in agility uses stealth, it is the machete and pistol tree with run and gun and parkour, nothing more. It's a waste to have Run and Gun be so heavily gated. The kid gloves are coming off: Rebalance attributes big time, your leveling system's failing and everybody's saying it. Stop being deluded, essentially. Get your head out of your "this is my game my rules" butt. You are BIASED. My frustration and all the common sense in the world won't help me get through to this @%$*#!ing beer drinking pleb. Stop acting like leveling and skills and perks belongs the way it is in the current iteration. Stop defending a failure. You're like a dad who says his son was justified in kicking his dog. Take responsibility for this design flaw.

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Go ahead and ban me from the forum for 3 days, but SOMEBODY had to tell you, MM, that you are trying to force a really terrible leveling system down our unjustifiably loyal throats. So @%$*#! the unjustifiable loyalty on my end. Use your BRAIN. We've offered SOLUTIONS. Stop letting your pride cast aside our criticisms and ADMIT that leveling SUCKS in its current iteration.

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27 minutes ago, Jay_ombie said:

Oh god they really need to sort the water out, even simple water behaviour like in other voxel games would be better than what we have right now in 7D.

 

Looks lovely yeah but touch it and its a rough broken lump of ka ka.

It might go on the A20 roadmap.

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Just now, Trunks_Budo said:

Go ahead and ban me from the forum for 3 days, but SOMEBODY had to tell you, MM, that you are trying to force a really terrible leveling system down our unjustifiably loyal throats. So @%$*#! the unjustifiable loyalty on my end. Use your BRAIN. We've offered SOLUTIONS. 

What terrible leveling system?  I'm finding it the same as always if not better cause it is a bit slower

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4 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

What terrible leveling system?  I'm finding it the same as always if not better cause it is a bit slower

Go back to page 494 and 495 for what was discussed yesterday, for what madmole essentially entirely missed the point of with his apparent lack of ability to admit the system's flawed and in need of rework.

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"Honestly, I would be satisfied if these following perks did not have attributes gating my investment into them: Run and Gun, Miner 69er, Motherlode, Living off the Land, The Huntsman, and Master Chef. Parkour is an exclusively awesome thing in agility, leave it there, leave it gated. But those other skills I listed are too universally useful to gate for single-players, and should be accessible to all players regardless of specialization. Boom, I'm satisfied if this is the case. Leave attribute gates, but make key things more accessible etc. That's just my opinion. I feel it could be a win for both single players and multiplayers, because two characters in different attributes could still mine together, hunt together, tend to gardens, cook while traveling and camping out, etc; And that form of cooperation is what makes an in-game server community or township feel more real. It is possible to have TOO MUCH privatization involved. There should be a Survival Basics attribute, with no gates, just useful perks. That's my ultimate solution, and that's the note I'm ending on I think. I hope the devs entertain the possibility, I know it sucks when somebody criticizes your baby. I speak all of this from a place of love for your baby, devs. Just so you know. I love it."

Then there were plenty of people who came forth and agreed, yeah, leveling is janky right now. <deleted>. There is no error with progression, progression is fine. But what you ACTUALLY unlock WHILE progressing is broke as hell. You basically have to take a 15 point detour to get RUN AND GUN, if you're specialized in anything but agility? For real? Yeah that's clearly fine. It's not like 15 levels is an entire week or two of grinding kills away, or anything. No matter which specialization you choose, you're just always getting screwed. That's what this current iteration offers. Nothing more.

32 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

What terrible leveling system?  I'm finding it the same as always if not better cause it is a bit slower

 

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10 minutes ago, Bhaaltazar said:

Thze problem with current system is you have skills under trees that makes no sense. Players are complaining because if you like to mine you have to go STR , and always play that way. What does cooking have to do with STR - you stir the stew quicker? :) 

Just make a "general" tree where you have the basic skills everyone is using - like cooking, Living of the land, mining, hunter perks, leaky guts... it would make much more sense and players would have many more options to play around with combat/supplement skills. Personally I always end up with STR since I like to build and therefore I need mining - so since I go deep in STR I never feel the need to use any other tree - other than just to "make me play a different way". STR is totally OP with Sledge and shotgun perks, mining, Trex... no other tree comes close to STR.

Just separate weapons perks from General skills. Make the leveling system less dull - you made a great game, just fix the whole leveling system, which is usually one of biggest parts of good games.

The idea is to make a fairly interesting build neatly governed by one attribute. If you want to be a jack of all trades noone is stopping you, but it takes a little longer to get really good at everything. Any strongman or bodybuilder knows cooking, macros etc. It makes more sense there than any other skill because food is health. Perception guy doesn't get hurt much he uses high range weapons. Agility doesn't need to heal, he is never seen. Fortitude has farming, and damage resistance perks, int guy doesn't get hurt either he uses technology to do his combat and has medicine to heal as well.

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6 minutes ago, madmole said:

The idea is to make a fairly interesting build neatly governed by one attribute. If you want to be a jack of all trades noone is stopping you, but it takes a little longer to get really good at everything. Any strongman or bodybuilder knows cooking, macros etc. It makes more sense there than any other skill because food is health. Perception guy doesn't get hurt much he uses high range weapons. Agility doesn't need to heal, he is never seen. Fortitude has farming, and damage resistance perks, int guy doesn't get hurt either he uses technology to do his combat and has medicine to heal as well.

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

 

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs. Stealth means nothing, when you have scripted zombies falling through ceilings, immediately detecting you regardless of your "stealth".

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2 minutes ago, Trunks_Budo said:

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

 

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs.

Did you ask every member of the 7D2D community if they like stealth or not? Do you have a petition next to you that you can show us? No? Well regardless, there's no reason to be as toxic as this. Maybe you woke up on the wrong side of the bed, so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I would recommend you take some time off, cool off, and come back when or if you're willing to communicate to the rest of us in a civil and adult manner.

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1 minute ago, Trunks_Budo said:

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

 

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs.

I wouldn't say no one likes stealth, i have found stealth appealing in certain aspects even for fun

 

As far as the attribute debates you directed me too, i admit some of the stuff is true in the arguement, but i do think it is fairly balanced right now, i never perk into stealth myself but i look at it as more points into what i want.

 

To the comment about master chef being weird in strength, well to remain strong you gotta cook awesome stuff, somehow it makes sense to me beyond words.

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1 hour ago, madmole said:

So 9 points, 4 of which are free, by level 5 you can achieve awesome miner status. I don't understand why this seems so painful to people. You have the rest of the game to develop whatever skills you want, and can get cooking and heavy armor too if you choose, because you are already semi invested in STR.

You are absolutly right and that is a problem. Why should I invest points into perks like lockpicking oder lucky looter. You want to open a safe, get miner 69er and bash them open. no need to fidle with lockpicks one pickaxe to rule them all and it gets the job faster done. Why perking into lucky looter, get miner 69er and motherlode and get a load of levels in no time and so game stage, which results in good loot. Instead of perking into lucky looter and get ...a long time nothing... and then probably a bit more.

You also get a nice damagebuff to your blunderbuss and shotguns, the absolute best weapons low- and midgame. 170+ damage for a doublebarrel in comparison to 80+ damage for a huntingrifle and the rate of fire of a doublebarrel is far better. Beside from the fact that you can even find them early game or get them as a questreward and not have to buy them from the trader.

 

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7 minutes ago, Trunks_Budo said:

 

Go back to page 494 and 495 for what was discussed yesterday, for what madmole essentially entirely missed the point of with his apparent lack of ability to admit the system's flawed and in need of rework.

Because 1 guy is crying we reinvent a system? I've played 1000's of hours over every different skill and it is fine. If it is so bad why are review scores and player counts at all time highs? If I move perks under general, you still have to raise your "general" attribute and spend even more points getting what you want. And then all the other attributes lose a lot making them feel watered down and not worth it. There is nothing wrong with the system except the want your cake and eat it too people with zero patience don't like it. Double your XP so you can have all the perks you want.

There is nothing wrong with strengths and weaknesses. Go find schematics for cooking, you don't need the perks. Mining isn't required, you just aren't aware of all the ways around it or unwilling to use them, or too cheap to pay the price because you can't have your cake. Wait to mine until you find an auger or you are level 70 and have 20 perk points just sitting there you don't need and buy it then. HARD CHOICES are a better game design than "everything convenient". Gamplay is a better design than any realism or logic argument as well.

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5 minutes ago, Trunks_Budo said:

You are falsely assuming that agility should be about stealth.

 

Nobody likes stealth, literally nobody, and you're desperate to pretend it belongs. Stealth means nothing, when you have scripted zombies falling through ceilings, immediately detecting you regardless of your "stealth".

You are literally wrong that literally nobody likes stealth. 

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All I know is that one would be a mentally deficient fool to specialize in stealth when you can instead walk into a poi with an SMG-5 and a desert vulture and a machete and eliminate every threat with cold calculated efficiency, using run & gun to reload while sprinting to safety. And good luck using your stealth build on BM night (y) I am accepting the role of public enemy to say what has to be said. I'm unsubscribing from this forum so you guys can talk to your wall.

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13 minutes ago, madmole said:

Because 1 guy is crying we reinvent a system? I've played 1000's of hours over every different skill and it is fine. If it is so bad why are review scores and player counts at all time highs? If I move perks under general, you still have to raise your "general" attribute and spend even more points getting what you want. And then all the other attributes lose a lot making them feel watered down and not worth it. There is nothing wrong with the system except the want your cake and eat it too people with zero patience don't like it. Double your XP so you can have all the perks you want.

There is nothing wrong with strengths and weaknesses. Go find schematics for cooking, you don't need the perks. Mining isn't required, you just aren't aware of all the ways around it or unwilling to use them, or too cheap to pay the price because you can't have your cake. Wait to mine until you find an auger or you are level 70 and have 20 perk points just sitting there you don't need and buy it then. HARD CHOICES are a better game design than "everything convenient". Gamplay is a better design than any realism or logic argument as well.

There's a difference between hard choices, and pidgeonholing me into agility because Run and Gun is the one single superior perk that everyone should acquire. Other builds are irrelevant, yet they contain fun things. Hence, everybody is always missing out; Hence, psycho-logical (Word gets censored) manipulation of the player into repeated playthroughs. And that's the only reason why you guys have so much playtime, because all the idiots who can't see the end from the beginning just keep walking in vain hoping for a fulfillment they're probably never gonna get from your game. If games were rated based on how often they're played, Candy Crush would be a better game than 7 days to die. Doesn't change the fact that it's just an absurd dopamine generator for wine moms who lack the inner resources to play something more demanding. I could never play anything other than agility now because I'm on day 28, haven't died, and I'm STILL just running around and gunning/throwing molotovs on every bloodmoon. Tower defense game? Not if you spec agility, because it's the only tree where you can sprint and reload.

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